Talk:Pondicherry
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Comments
editSomeone please edit the main article along the following lines:
Only the Union Territory of Pondicherry has been renamed to the Union Territory of Puducherry by an act of the Indian Parliament. Pondicherry city remains Pondicherry city. A notice to this effect will be published in the next gazette of the govt (of Puducherry).
It is likely that the local politicians will decide to rename the city too to Puducherry. But this is a long drawn out process, requiring the consent of various central govt ministries; it is much easier to rename a state or a union territory than it is to rename a city. So at least for the next few months or even years, the city will remain Pondicherry.--Ujm 02:52, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Finally the law renaming the UT passed and now the official name is Puducherry. I think it is normal to change also here the name the same as for Mumbai and Chennai. Desiphral-देसीफ्राल talk-फेन मा 18:11, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
What is the name? ?
editThis article states its Pondicherry....and then it says it used to be known as Pondicherry...well isn't that the same thing?....And wasn't it changed to Puducherry? Os it that a different place? ? 71.106.83.19 (talk) 17:44, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
- Agree. The leade still states the same as above. Very confusing. It seems that the city's name wasn't changed when the Union Territory name was changed, but is in the future. Can a knowledgeable editor confirm?--TGC55 (talk) 22:33, 13 December 2011 (UTC)
Move to Pondicherry?
editNow that the territory has been moved from Pondicherry to Puducherry, shouldn't this city be move to Pondicherry? Several editors wrote in favor of this idea at Talk:Puducherry#Requested_move_January_2013. Generally speaking, cities take precedence over administrative divisions in English, and that should be even more true now that "Pondicherry" is no longer the legal or common name of the administrative division. Kauffner (talk) 01:40, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
- I have copied the discussion from Talk:Puducherry below, to explain the problems with making this move at the present time. We need to sort out all the incoming links, and find a way of preventing the softwear from linking the Talk page for the union territory to the city article, before anything is done:
Note: I moved Pondicherry (city) to Pondicherry since disambiguation is no longer necessary. Feel free to let me know if this was not a good idea. --regentspark (comment) 18:47, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
- I don't know about that. The fact that the territory was formerly located there suggests readers who type in or click on "Pondicherry" are looking for that article. The city's name look like it's been changed as well.[1]Cúchullain t/c 19:14, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
- Since this city is the most prominent area in the union territory and the city article has links of the district and the union territory, the reader won't get lost. As far as I know, the city, the district and the union territory all are now known as Puducherry. However, it may take some more time for Wikipedia editors to accept that.--GDibyendu (talk) 19:22, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
- I got the impression from the RM above that the city was still known as Pondicherry? An alternative is to make Pondicherry a disambiguation page and keep the city article at Pondicherry (city). I'm personally unsure as to whether the city or the UT is the primary topic (except that most Chennaites, the ones I know anyway, don't really differentiate and refer to the place as Pondy).
- I think we need clarification on this. If the city is still widely known as Pondicherry, but the territory is known as Puducherry, the city should (presumably) be at Pondicherry. However, if the city has also become known as Puducherry, then we need some real evidence as to which article readers are looking for when they type in "Pondicherry" - and possibly an RM for the city. The fact that this article was formerly located at that title suggests the territory may the better target for the redirect.Cúchullain t/c 21:17, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
- There is much more confusion over the city, than there is over the territory. As far as I could see, last time I looked, the city change had not been finally approved (a bit like Bangalore). There are consequently a considerable number of sources, even in India, that still refer to the city as Pondicherry. However, there are also many sources that now refer to all three (the territory, district and city) as Puducherry. A case could be made out that the common use of the city is now Puducherry, but it isn't anything like as clear as the case for the territory. I've added a hatnote (not a very good one) to the city article in the meantime. If anyone can improve on it, please do. Skinsmoke (talk) 11:49, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
- Incidentally, in the two moves, the Talk page for the city has become detached from the article page, and the territory Talk page substituted. The link needs restoring urgently. Skinsmoke (talk) 11:57, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
- I was going to undo the move while we discuss this but cuc beat me to it. All fixed for now. --regentspark (comment) 13:34, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
- Yeah, guess I got to it first. It probably bears further discussion as to what should be located, or redirected, where. I've also created a dab page at Pondicherry (disambiguation); honestly, that might should be at Pondicherry, at least until we figure out what readers are typically looking for when typing in "Pondicherry".--Cúchullain t/c 13:47, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
- Right now, Pondicherry is redirecting to Puducherry (this article page), but probably it would be better to redirect it to the city page. Most often, when people talk about Pondicherry, they would usually mean the city. The UT consists of 3 other districts, Mahe is surrounded by Kerala, Yanam is surrounded by Andhra Pradesh. The other two, Pondicherry city and Karaikal are surrounded by Tamil Nadu. What I mean to say is this: if I say I am going travel to Pondicherry, then I would mean the city or at most Karaikal too, but not the other two places, Yanam and Mahe, as they are far away from the Pondicherry city. If I am planning to go to Yanam, then most likely I would use the name Yanam rather than referring to Pondicherry.--GDibyendu (talk) 06:27, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
- I would leave things as they are for the time being. Firstly, the incoming links at both the territory and city pages need checking. Many are simply linking to the wrong article. There are hundreds of incoming links, and I have started to go through those linking to the territory. I've checked about 600 so far.
- Secondly, we need to avoid the mess that occurred when, following the territory move, the city article was moved to Pondicherry. This resulted in the city talkpage becoming detached (and vanishing into the great white void), and the territory talk page attaching itself to the city article, and had to be undone by Cúchullain.
- It is also worth remembering that the territory page was at Pondicherry because it had been deemed to be the primary meaning. Unless things have changed, the primary meaning would still be the redirect to the territory. There may well be an argument that the city is now the primary meaning, but even in your suggestion you acknowledge that the primary meaning of Pondicherry is unclear: it could possibly even be Pondicherry district.
- In any case, let's get the cleanup from the territory move sorted first, and check the incoming links to the city article, and then maybe look at this in a couple of months time when things have settled down. Skinsmoke (talk) 12:13, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, this needs a considerably closer look. We need to determine which entity most readers are looking for when they type in or click on the name "Pondicherry" (if any of them is really most common). We also need to determine whether the city is chiefly known as Pondicherry, or if it has followed the territory in becoming better known as "Puducherry".Cúchullain t/c 15:23, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
- Update: Progress continues on checking links to the territory article. Have now checked about 75 per cent of those. Skinsmoke (talk) 10:16, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- Have you noticed a trend in what the articles are really intending between the territory and the city?Cúchullain t/c 15:30, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
- I wish! To be honest, it's a bit of a mess. The modern-day articles aren't, on the whole, too bad. I would say they are predominantly correctly linked to the territory (though there are still a considerable number that aren't). The historical articles are proving a real problem. While some relate to the city, most seem to relate to that part of the territory (including the city) that was the immediate French possession around the city (excluding Karaikal, Yanan and Mahé), and which is now Pondicherry district. Almost none of these relate to the union territory as it exists today and which, with Chandannagar formed French India.
- I am coming to the conclusion that perhaps Pondicherry would be better as a disambiguation page, and not redirect to either Puducherry or Pondicherry (city), and that Pondichéry should redirect to Pondicherry district. Am still ploughing through the territory links though, and haven't even started on the articles linking to the city, so that could all change when we look at it from a different perspective.
- One thing I did notice in the early stages of link checking is that there does seem to be some evidence that the city is increasingly commonly referred to as Puducherry in recent external links, though whether this is even a majority I wouldn't like to say at this stage. I was surprised to note that the railway station now seems to be named Puducherry. Skinsmoke (talk) 02:18, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
- It sounds reasonable that Pondicherry should be a dab page, considering the confusion here. I'd imagine a lot of people typing that name in are looking for info on the city and its surrounds, and not, for instance, Yanam. I'd hesitate to redirect Pondichéry to Pondicherry district, though as that article only covers the modern government district (and it has very little content at all). I'd recommend redirecting it to Pondicherry (city), and fixing the links when it's clear something else is intended. At some point it may be worth creating a new article on the French possession around Pondichéry city, if that had a notably different government structure and history than the city itself.--Cúchullain t/c 16:14, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
- I'd already had another think about Pondichéry and tend to agree with you (to an extent). At the present time, I think it should probably redirect to a disambiguation page, the same as Pondicherry would. Pondicherry district is actually identical to the former territory that was part of French India, but until its history section is expanded (much of the history at Pondicherry (city) would be more appropriate on the district article), there doesn't seem much point redirecting to it. The city actually covers only about half of the district, and much of the city article relates to places outside the city boundary. Getting close to the end on sorting out the links—perhaps just 100 or so to go (thank God!). Very grateful for the help I've been getting! Skinsmoke (talk) 04:03, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
- All right, if there are no objections I'll move the dab page to Pondicherry (disambiguation), and we can redirect Pondichéry there as well. It appears we'll be in for another discussion if and when it's established the city has become better known as Puducherry. At that point we'll need to discuss not only a move for the city, but the territory as well.Cúchullain t/c 04:11, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
- That seems fine. Skinsmoke (talk) 06:16, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
- All right, if there are no objections I'll move the dab page to Pondicherry (disambiguation), and we can redirect Pondichéry there as well. It appears we'll be in for another discussion if and when it's established the city has become better known as Puducherry. At that point we'll need to discuss not only a move for the city, but the territory as well.Cúchullain t/c 04:11, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
- I'd already had another think about Pondichéry and tend to agree with you (to an extent). At the present time, I think it should probably redirect to a disambiguation page, the same as Pondicherry would. Pondicherry district is actually identical to the former territory that was part of French India, but until its history section is expanded (much of the history at Pondicherry (city) would be more appropriate on the district article), there doesn't seem much point redirecting to it. The city actually covers only about half of the district, and much of the city article relates to places outside the city boundary. Getting close to the end on sorting out the links—perhaps just 100 or so to go (thank God!). Very grateful for the help I've been getting! Skinsmoke (talk) 04:03, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
- It sounds reasonable that Pondicherry should be a dab page, considering the confusion here. I'd imagine a lot of people typing that name in are looking for info on the city and its surrounds, and not, for instance, Yanam. I'd hesitate to redirect Pondichéry to Pondicherry district, though as that article only covers the modern government district (and it has very little content at all). I'd recommend redirecting it to Pondicherry (city), and fixing the links when it's clear something else is intended. At some point it may be worth creating a new article on the French possession around Pondichéry city, if that had a notably different government structure and history than the city itself.--Cúchullain t/c 16:14, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
- Have you noticed a trend in what the articles are really intending between the territory and the city?Cúchullain t/c 15:30, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Requested move: → Pondicherry
edit- The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 12:31, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
– This is the only article on Wikipedia entitled "Pondicherry." If the idea is to disambiguate it from Puducherry state, cities are always primary on Wiki compared to bureaucratic creations like provinces, states, and districts. The city has a illustrious history going back hundreds of years as the capital of French India. The state was created in 1963. Times of India gives us an example of real world usage with the headline, "Srabanti off to Pondicherry" (May 12, 2012). Here the intended meaning of Pondicherry city is implied, and there is no need to explicitly distinguish it from the state, not even inside the article. Relisted. BDD (talk) 16:32, 11 March 2013 (UTC) Kauffner (talk) 08:05, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
Survey
edit- Comment: "...cities are always primary on Wiki compared to bureaucratic creations like provinces, states, and districts." Er no, they're not. See New York and New York City. It is true that the union territory (not "state") was created in 1963, but it was effectively simply a change of name and controlling administration. The union territory was a successor to French India, and the date of 1963 is merely the handover date. You really do need to look beyond the infobox. Having been one of the editors who have spent the best part of a month going through all the incoming links, I can assure you that hundreds did not refer to the city. Some did, some referred to the district, and many others referred to the union territory. They were a complete mess. I have no doubt that at some stage we will have the city as the primary topic (unless its name changes to match the territory, which is quite possible), but for now I would suggest leaving things just as they are, and coming back to see what things look like in 12 months time. Skinsmoke (talk) 18:34, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
- Britannica also uses "New York City", although they can have multiple instances of a title and don't have to worry about primary topics. I went through a lot links too. Most of them were historical (pre-1963), so I interpret them as referring to the city. The bottom line it that this is the only article titled "Pondicherry", so it does not require disambiguation. Kauffner (talk) 02:15, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, but "Pondicherry" can also refer to the state (among other things), so it's still ambiguous. And of course "Puducherry" can also refer to the city, so it's worth discussing if that should be a dab page (or redirect to one) as well. After the last mess, I'm with Skinsmoke - let's leave things as they are for now and come back when the dust has settled a bit more.--Cúchullain t/c 02:54, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
- Support. Srnec (talk) 07:09, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
- Comment: I'm not sure I would interpret the pre-1963 links as referring to the city. They actually refer to the territory of Pondicherry (Pondichéry), which was one of the parts of French India. The city only accounts for about half of the territory, and many of the events and places referred to in those links are outside the city. The territory equates to Pondicherry district, but the history section of that article is non-existent. I do understand your point on this, but I think it's better to wait a couple of months and let things settle down a bit before making a further move. Is that really a problem? Skinsmoke (talk) 10:15, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
- Is it the norm to refer to the state as Puducherry and the city as Pondicherry? I would've thought this article would be moved to Puducherry (city) following the Puducherry RM. --BDD (talk) 17:35, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
- Puducherry is the the new official name of the union territory but, in all honesty, it hasn't caught on amongst the English speaking people of Chennai who are more likely to say Pondicherry, or even more likely, Pondy, when referring to the city. --regentspark (comment) 01:55, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
- Oppose for now, per my and Skinsmoke's comments above. It may well turn out that "Pondicherry" primarily refers to the city, but the name remains ambiguous. I recommend leaving it be for now and returning to the question at a later time.--Cúchullain t/c 02:54, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
- Non-Indians are most likely to know about this city from Life of Pi, where it is given as "Pondicherry" (p. IX). Kauffner (talk) 15:03, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
- Support Per Kauffner. The city is still generally referred to as Pondicherry and it is the primary topic. --regentspark (comment) 16:06, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
- Support, all uses point back to the same essential geography, the city as its core. LCS check (talk) 16:55, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support, though arguably ambiguous with the district, the city is clearly the primary topic with 16311 page views in 201302, while the district had 2913, about 18%, during the same period. --B2C 18:37, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
State bird, animal, flower, tree
editThese are not valid fields in Template:infobox settlement and were move here from the article's infobox
- state bird = koel
- State Animal = Squirrel
- State Flower = Nagalingam (Cannonball tree's flower)
- State Tree = Vilva tree (Bael Fruit Tree)
Opening paragraph
editThe last sentence is "The girls have coodies" ... this is nonsensical, and appears to be some vandal's action. Prisoner of Zenda (talk) 11:42, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 3 October 2014
editThis edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
{{Not done)) we don't add spam-links to commercial websites - Arjayay (talk) 08:42, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
External links
edit- (in English) Official website of the Government of the Union Territory of Puducherry
- (in English) Official website of Department of Tourism, Pondicherry
- (in English) < spamlink removed >
- (in English) < spamlink removed >
no mention for prince pondicherry from charlie and the chocolate factory?
edithe wasn't from pondicherry though, just named after the city — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.118.64.56 (talk) 08:35, November 14, 2014 (UTC)
External links modified
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Requested move 10 September 2018
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: Not Moved. Consensus is that WP:COMMONNAME serves users better than WP:OFFICIAL names, though I, for one, would prefer to see better evidence of what the most common name in English truly is. (non-admin closure) В²C ☎ 22:03, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
Pondicherry → Puducherry (city) – Should be renamed to the official and widely used name of the city per WP:PLACE and WP:WIAN. The name of Puducherry for the city has been widely accepted by RS such as Encyclopedia Britannica and Columbia Encyclopedia. I am not sure why this article wasn't moved to Puducherry especially since the article of the union territory itself has (Puducherry). Gotitbro (talk) 19:16, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
- It should be noted that per WP:NCIND the title should preferably be Puducherry, Puducherry but as can be seen that would be confusing hence the proposed name. Gotitbro (talk) 19:18, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose 1810 vs 920 In ictu oculi (talk) 21:56, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
- Support Given the consensus at Talk:Puducherry has been in favour of moving the article on the Union Territory it would make sense to assume that consensus applies to the city as well, especially for consistency ("The title is consistent with the pattern of similar articles' titles"). Furthermore, as the article is about an Indian city we should use Indian English per MOS:ENGVAR and Indian English sources tend to favour Puducherry. The fact Encyclopaedia Britannica is now using Puducherry adds significant weight to supporting a move. AusLondonder (talk) 01:49, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, consistency is also a major factor here. I was especially confused when the union territory's name was listed as Puducherry but the capital was listed as Pondicherry. It should follow along with the previous discussion for the move of the Union Territory. Gotitbro (talk) 18:35, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
- Searching for just 'Puducherry' in google.co.in News mostly turns up stories about the union territory; search adding city (in any way) and it looks like a preponderance of Indian English news sources use 'Pondicherry' for the city's name even when though almost all use 'Puducherry' for the union territory. Especially note those based in the region. —innotata 02:03, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose. The common name is still Pondicherry. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:49, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
- It would be good if you could provide some evidence to support that assertion. AusLondonder (talk) 05:05, 13 September 201;;8 (UTC)
- The name of the union territory is Puducherry, where as the name of the city is Pondicherry. The union territory also covers random cities on the western coast of India too. The city's name is actually pronounced 'Pundicherry' so that's where you might be getting confused - the "o" in Pondicherry is pronuced like a U in the same way "love" is pronounced "luv". Iinpuducherry (talk) 13:32, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose. The most common name used for the city is "Pondicherry" or maybe pronounced as "Pundi". Puducherry is more like an administrative leftover that is no-longer used by the administrators themselves except when the 'computer says no'. Iinpuducherry (talk) 13:30, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose since the official name is not actually the common name in this case. Lovesaver (talk) 00:35, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose the official name of the city (at some levels at least) is not the common name. It isn't even used by Pondicherry Municipality's website! Indian news sources in English tend to use Pondicherry as I noted. (And my experience of usage is the same as Iinpuducherry's although that isn't fast and easy to back up with sources.) It's not an uncommon thing for an official name for a larger territorial entity to be predominately used, while the traditional name continues in use for its namesake city. Sure, consistency grumblers may not like this, but they should take this up with the rest of the world, not with Wikipedia. —innotata 02:03, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose, as Pondicherry is still the WP:COMMONNAME, at least in the English language. Softlavender (talk) 03:11, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Citation for French name
edit@Anonymousboii: Which reference, among the ones present in the page already, is the source for the native name in the article? The only two instances of the French name are the ones that you have added. —Gazoth (talk) 20:52, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
- Oops, did I add the French name as the native name? I'll correct it to other name. Also, according to the treaty of cession to India, since the Government of India hasn't specifically repealed French as the native language, French is an official language and the French name is Pondichéry. This appears in many places, for example, the Lycée français de Pondichéry, a famous school here.-- friendlyneighborhoodanon 20:56, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
Citations for use of French name.
editI found the following Government of India documents, which have a preface in Tamil, French and English.
- http://gstcouncil.gov.in/sites/default/files/sgst-notification/PUD-(R)-21.pdf
- https://gst.py.gov.in/ctd/gst/THE-PUDUCHERRY-GOODS-AND-SERVICES-TAX-(AMENDMENT)-ACT-2018.pdf
- https://labour.py.gov.in/sites/default/file/2017/The%20Puducherry%20Loading%20and%20Unloading%20(Regulation%20of%20Employment%20and%20Welfare)%20Act,%202017.pdf
- https://lad.py.gov.in/images/pdf/GO/Profession%20Tax%20for%20panchayat%20Act%20No.%204.pdf
Map of India
editIt really doesn't matter that much, but it would still be more proper to have this map of India up to date. Telangana split from Andhra Pradesh in 2014. Six years out of date. --HyettsTheGamer2 (talk) 02:30, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Move discussion in progress
editThere is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Puducherry which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 17:03, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
'Now known as'
editIt is incorrect to state in the article that the city is 'now known as Puducherry'. It is emphatically not known by this name in English, the language of the article, as well as other languages - 'Pondicherry' remains the normal, common place-name. The name may have officially been changed by the local government, but that is not the same thing. The article ought to state it in these terms, i.e. 'Pondicherry, now officially renamed Puducherry' etc. 2A01:CB04:86D:4300:69BE:ED07:DBD1:B29 (talk) 10:02, 11 November 2022 (UTC)