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Use the closure requests noticeboard to ask an uninvolved editor to assess, summarize, and formally close a Wikipedia discussion. Do so when consensus appears unclear, it is a contentious issue, or where there are wiki-wide implications (e.g. any change to our policies or guidelines).

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(Initiated 128 days ago on 3 June 2024) Initial close has been overturned at review. A new close is required. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 16:36, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Surely someone wants to be taken to review and shouted at, even if just for the experience. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 16:23, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone want a closer's barnstar? (okay but seriously maybe we should just panel close this one, if only to prevent any further disputes.) --Licks-rocks (talk) 11:46, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Panel close is probably a good idea if we can get a panel together. Loki (talk) 19:35, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt it will be possible to assemble a panel for something as inconsequential as this. Frankly, I don't know what should be done here. —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 13:44, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just to mention that there has been discussion at AN to attempt to resolve the issue. --Super Goku V (talk) 05:56, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 60 days ago on 9 August 2024)

Wikipedia talk:Notability (species)#Proposal to adopt this guideline is WP:PROPOSAL for a new WP:SNG. The discussion currently stands at 503 comments from 78 editors or 1.8 tomats of text, so please accept the hot beverage of your choice ☕️ and settle in to read for a while. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:22, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 53 days ago on 17 August 2024) Requesting immediate procedural close for Talk:Philippe Pétain#Rfc for Lede Image of Philippe Pétain, because it is blocked on a Wikipedia policy with legal implications that no one at the Rfc is qualified to comment on, namely U.S. copyright law about an image. At a minimum, it will require action at Commons about whether to delete an image, and likely they will have to consult Wikimedia legal for an interpretation in order to resolve the issue. Under current circumstances, it is a waste of editor time to leave the Rfc open, and is impossible to reliably evaluate by a closer, and therefore should be procedurally closed without assessment, the sooner the better. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 20:42, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• It's not appropriate to make an immediate procedural close in those circumstances. Wikipedians routinely make decisions about copyright, even those Wikipedians who aren't US attorneys. This is not a high-drama situation. However I'm starting to wonder if the RFC nominator might be on a crusade about our lede images for prominent WW2 figures, and if so, whether they might benefit from a sysop's advice and guidance about overusing our RFC process.—S Marshall T/C 09:16, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I'll do this, although I'm going to do the other close I committed to first. —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 16:56, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Compassionate727 FWIW the image was kept at Commons and here's a bit of a follow up on the copyright stuff discussed afterward.[1] Nemov (talk) 01:02, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Compassionate727 do you still plan on closing this? Nemov (talk) 20:01, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Yes, sorry. The outcome of the Commons DR and subsequent discussions have raised more difficult questions than they answered that I'm struggling a bit to sort through. I've requested input at WP:DfD; depending on the feedback I receive, I may settle on an outcome or punt the whole thing to someone more experienced with images. —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 20:25, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 28 days ago on 11 September 2024)

This will require a close by an editor experienced on WP:BLP polices. Thanks! Nemov (talk) 20:42, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Hi Nemov. I am seeing activity since your request was posted (most recently on October 6, 2024), and thus I expect that allowing the RFC to run the full 30 days will produce a better consensus.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 20:08, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

XFD backlog

V	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Total
CfD	0	1	11	0	12
TfD	0	0	0	0	0
MfD	0	1	8	0	9
FfD	0	1	4	0	5
RfD	0	0	16	4	20
AfD	0	0	0	0	0

(Initiated 60 days ago on 10 August 2024) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:41, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 39 days ago on 30 August 2024) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 07:08, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Doing.... The consensus is obvious, I just need to be fully awake when I attempt to implement it or I'll probably mess something up. —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 19:38, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 60 days ago on 10 August 2024) Frietjes (talk) 15:33, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done by Primefac. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:27, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 34 days ago on 5 September 2024) Frietjes (talk) 15:35, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done by Primefac. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:27, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 34 days ago on 5 September 2024) Frietjes (talk) 15:35, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done by Primefac. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:27, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 25 days ago on 14 September 2024) Frietjes (talk) 15:31, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done by Primefac. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 17:27, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 163 days ago on 28 April 2024)

Regarding the topic above,

Would you please close this discussion? Although, it has RfC in the subject line, it was added later so it is talk. Goodtiming8871 (talk) 06:17, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•   — Chris Woodrich (talk)...

(Initiated 134 days ago on 28 May 2024) Latest comment: 3 days ago, 79 comments, 37 people in discussion. Closing statement may be helpful for future discussions. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:29, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Doing...— Frostly (talk) 22:35, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Frostly Are you still planning on doing this? Soni (talk) 16:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Soni, yes - have drafted close and will post by the end of today. Thanks! — Frostly (talk) 17:56, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I wanted to note that this is taking slightly longer than expected, but it is at the top of my priority and will be completed soon. — Frostly (talk) 05:14, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Frostly Just checking, would you like someone else to help with this? Soni (talk) 07:31, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Frostly: also checking in. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:33, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Voorts and Soni, thanks for the pings! I've unfortunately been in the hospital for the past week but am now feeling better. I apologize for the long delay in putting out the close and appreciate your messages! Best, — Frostly (talk) 03:59, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry to hear that; a week-long hospitalization is not fun. But, I'm glad that you're feeling better. Best, voorts (talk/contributions) 19:06, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ping @Frostly again (I saw you've been editing Commons). Hope your still better, and if you don't feel like doing this one anymore, just let people know. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:02, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Archived. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 13:32, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just a note here that Frostly has not edited in over a month. Might be best for someone else to close. --Super Goku V (talk) 07:45, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I can't touch that cos I !voted, but although that was a productive and thought-provoking discussion, it's not a discussion that has an actionable outcome. I personally feel it can lie in the archives unclosed.—S Marshall T/C 11:36, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 122 days ago on 8 June 2024) Since much of the discussion centers on the title of the article rather than its content, the closer should also take into account the requested move immediately below on the talk page. Smyth (talk) 15:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If the closer finds "no consensus", I have proposed this route in which a discussion on merger and RM can happen simultaneously to give clearer consensus.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 20:10, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 116 days ago on 15 June 2024) open for 3+ months. Natg 19 (talk) 00:23, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 93 days ago on 8 July 2024) – Editors would feel more comfortable if an uninvolved closer provided a clear statement about whether a consensus to WP:SPLIT exists, and (if so) whether to split this list into two or three lists. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:06, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 62 days ago on 8 August 2024) - This has been open and the discussion is at a standstill. While the proposer requested to keep it open, I don't think that it's proper. Another can be opened at another time, but at this point, if someone wouldn't mind closing it, I think that would be helpful to move on. Andre🚐 01:59, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 58 days ago on 12 August 2024) No comments on two weeks; consensus on the merge is unclear, particularly for Effects of Hurricane Isabel in Delaware. 107.122.189.12 (talk) 19:29, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 57 days ago on 13 August 2024) It's been more than a month. The closer must be shrewd and articulate, as the topic is highly contentious. They should also discard comments based on personal opinion rather than policy, and, of course, avoid having their own opinion influence their assessment of consensus. InfiniteNexus (talk) 21:51, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 53 days ago on 16 August 2024) Discussion has slowed. No comments in a few days. TarnishedPath^talk 02:12, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 48 days ago on 22 August 2024) open for more than 1 month. Natg 19 (talk) 00:23, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 44 days ago on 26 August 2024) I'd like a closure of this discussion, which was preceded by this discussion:Talk:Cobra_Crack#MOS:ITAL Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:50, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's not a lot of participation here. It might benefit from going to an RfC. —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 18:17, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Cobra Crack discussion had 8 people. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:33, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 33 days ago on 6 September 2024) Discussion has stopped. Not a snow close so needs the kind support of an independent closer please. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 08:25, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 32 days ago on 6 September 2024) Contested proposed merge. Neutral closer required per WP:MERGECLOSE. voorts (talk/contributions) 15:22, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 24 days ago on 15 September 2024) – Closed by involved editor under unclear consensus, reopened by a likely sockpuppet account. Discussion has died down and I want an uninvolved closer to get this over and done with. GeorgeMemulous (talk) 23:56, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done, although it sounds like you won't be happy with the finding. —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 23:20, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 23 days ago on 15 September 2024) Clear consensus to move, just need an experienced editor to close the discussion and perform the move. Some1 (talk) 22:47, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Skimming through the discussion, which has several opposes, this is not a "clear consensus to move". voorts (talk/contributions) 22:53, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done by Cyberdog958. (As alluded to by voorts, a closure request should not be for a particular result.) SilverLocust 💬 07:45, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Initiated 19 days ago on 19 September 2024) - Discussion has kind of stabilized, with 68 people giving over 256 comments. Awesome Aasim 21:00, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In a discussion above a number of editors have begun discussing restricting edits to pages related to conflicts between India and Pakistan to users with extended confirmed rights. It's buried in an unblock request from another editor which isn't really related and wouldn't be affected by that restriction, so I'm formalizing the proposal and breaking it out for discussion. I will post notes in relevant places after I post this.

As many of you know, this topic is plagued by sockpuppetry (including ban evasion and likely good-hand-bad-hand abuse) and it's strongly suspected by many editors that groups on both sides of the conflict are recruiting new editors to falsely influence consensus through civil (and sometimes not-so-civil) POV pushing, and the use of brigading tactics. The topic is already under a broader set of Arbitration discretionary sanctions (WP:ARBIPA) which largely fail to address this "bigger picture" problem, except when incidents have already occurred. The conditions here are similar to the editing issues facing gamergate and the Israel-Palestine conflict before similar restrictions were put in place for those topics (see discussions here and here). In those cases the restrictions applied to the arbitration cases but in this instance the proposed restriction would cover a much narrower subset of topics, so I am proposing it as a community general sanction.

Proposed (parts copied from the relevant Israel-Palestine restriction): All IP editors, accounts with fewer than 500 edits, and accounts with less than 30 days tenure are prohibited from editing articles related to any conflict between India and Pakistan. Administrators may apply extended confirmed protection for any length of time or indefinitely to enforce this prohibition on any article they reasonably believe to be related to the conflict. Editors who do not meet the extended confirmed threshold may request edits on an article's talk page, subject to discussion and consensus. On pages that are not protected, edits made contrary to the prohibition may be but are not required to be reverted without regard for the three-revert rule. Extended-confirmed editors may restore a reverted edit if they have a good-faith reason to do so, and are encouraged to explain in their edit summary; edits restored in this way must not be reverted without discussion.

Please discuss below. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 15:49, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• My gut reaction is that we already have the authority under the existing DS to apply ECP as needed and that it should be used liberally in this area. I'd be hesitant to bring about a new area that is 100% under ECP because of how difficult the conflict is to define. We could get a situation where all of South Asia is more or less blue locked, which is what we had for a while with the Middle East. It seems easier just to apply ECP on the first instance of disruptive socking/meat/whatever, and log it as an AE action. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:57, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• TonyBallioni is right. All it needs is admins prepared to do it. - Sitush (talk) 16:00, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• How will that solve this newest drama-fest that popped up an hour ago, over ANI? ∯WBG^converse 16:16, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose - The problem with this is that it can act as a reverse honeypot trap - the conflict branches out onto less and less related topics, and thus so do the editing restrictions - topics to do with the individual countries, at a minimum, would see a spike. It's not that I don't see the issue, it's just that I'd rather the splash damage. Nosebagbear (talk) 18:53, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Cautious support - I admit that 30/500 is no panacea, but it will help. The problem is "brigading" as Ivanvector has pointed out. Each country's editors want the viewpoints favourable to their country to be represented and those favourable to the other country to be eliminated. The former is apparently ok by our WP:NPOV policy (even though there are struggles to get the WP:WEIGHTs up) but the latter can only be achieved by demonising all the editors that stand in the way and the sources and scholars that stand in the way. For that, brigading is needed. If you can gather big enough a brigade you can shout down the other brigade. Brigades are cheap these days. You just go to your favourite internet forum and shout, saying "our country's honour is at stake". People will line up. They may not know X from Y. But that doesn't matter. All they need to know is cut-and-paste. Any mobile phone will do. That is the environment we are in at the moment. A 30/500 protection will at least dampen this. The new recruits will need to stick around for 30 days, which might try their patience a little. But determined nationalists will stick around, and pass the goal posts. Plus we need to keep in mind that Wikipedia is itself an internet forum. There are plenty of potential recruits available right here. Those people might have already passed the 30/500 goal post. So the problems won't go away. They might just become a little bit easier. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 20:16, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong support as one major and important step in the right direction. Softlavender (talk) 20:26, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• This thing already exists. A number of articles about other subjects like castes, geography, and more other subjects under ARBIPA are already ECP for various reasons. GenuineArt (talk) 20:46, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• I think Ivanvector is proposing a blanket use of it for the Indo-Pakistani conflict stuff, which certainly is not how it is done for caste or geography articles. - Sitush (talk) 09:55, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Don't we need an explicit ArbCom decision to authorize preventive ec protection, similarly to ARBPIA?--Ymblanter (talk) 21:55, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Cautious support. I agree with a lot of what TonyBallioni has said above about the need for caution and the dangers of defining the conflict too broadly. That said; we already have used this particular scope for topic-bans, including last year's mass t-ban, because it is a fairly narrow locus (relative to all of ARBIPA) that still contains a lot of disruption. The issue with the current regime isn't that admins aren't using our discretion to protect pages when necessary; it's that pages that need protection often do not come to our attention. As a result of off-wiki canvassing, a ridiculous number of distinct sockmasters with varied agendas, and increasing awareness of how CUs may be circumvented, it is often not worth an experienced editor's time to investigate a new account and file an SPI. Some of socks are caught anyway (Bbb23 really needs to get a medal for everything that they do) but a lot of others are not, and especially if they are throwaway accounts created for the sake of a single conflict or discussion, may never be. Also, protecting a single page often has the result of driving the nationalist conflict to different pages. The net result is that we have sustained disruption on a number of pages that is too large to be effectively patrolled by experienced editors who have the encyclopedia's best interests at heart. In that respect, preventative protection would help considerably. Vanamonde (Talk) 22:43, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Pinging @GoldenRing, NeilN, JzG, Bishonen, Sandstein, Abecedare, BU Rob13, and Doug Weller: As all of you have sanctioned editors under ARBIPA in the last year, I think your opinions here would be valuable. Vanamonde (Talk) 22:47, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Make it so. This will result in less drama and fewer sanctions of inexperienced editors unfamiliar with our ways. Guy (Help!) 22:55, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Yes yes yes. This topic is a mess of editors broadly suspected to be socks or meats but without any firm evidence of the same. This would significantly raise the effort required to make a sock ready to do battle. To answer a couple of objections above:

• @Ymblanter: The community can impose whatever restrictions it likes, given a strong enough consensus.
• @TonyBallioni: While it's true that we can apply ECP to individual pages, this particular topic is disruptive enough that I think it's worth having a preemptive rule. At present, it needs an administrator to come along and apply ECP, while this would allow any EC editor to revert changes by non-EC editors on any article falling under the restriction.
• @Ivanvector: I'd prefer to see language that more closely mirrors the committee's ARBPIA restriction; in particular, I think the committee's "reasonably construed" language is important to avoid some of the problems others have alluded to above; this is narrower than the usual "broadly construed" language. I think the language about preferring enforcement through ECP would also be useful. GoldenRing (talk) 09:34, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In fact at first I copied the Israel-Palestine General Prohibition verbatim, only replacing "related to the Arab-Israeli conflict" with "related to any conflict between India and Pakistan". But that prohibition was originally drafted before extended confirmed protection was a thing (I was involved in its drafting), you can see the original version in the "superseded versions" collapse here. Basically it read as it does now, but the second sentence read "This prohibition may be enforced by reverts, ...." without the bit about EC. Some time after EC became available to admins the phrase about preferring the use of EC was shoehorned in, in typical Arbcom bureaucratic fashion, without fixing the rest of the sentence. In fact there's no reason to enforce that prohibition by any means other than EC protection, but all the old methods are still mentioned. Subsequent revisions also added the instructions for editors not meeting the criteria in bullet form, which I tried to fit into the restriction itself. Then it was too long so I started editing, and by the time I got through that I had basically rewritten the whole thing. But I agree that something like "reasonably construed" could be added back. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 14:38, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Just noting that discretionary sanctions (WP:AC/DS) already apply to the India-Pakistan topic area, so admins can already use this to apply ECP to individual pages. Whether a broader community sanction is needed I don't know - I'm not familiar enough with the particular dynamics in this topic area. Sandstein 09:37, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Not only do discretionary sanctions already apply, any page experiencing issues of this nature can be just sent to RFPP where it will get ECP'd if necessary, a sanction is not required to allow ECP to be applied if there's already disruption occurring from new/autoconfirmed editors. Fish+Karate 10:14, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  My understanding is that we are discussing a preemptive protection. Requests for preemptive protection are routinely declined at RFPP, withe the exception of the ARBPIA articles which can be extended-confirmed protection any time, even if there is no ongoing or past disruption.--Ymblanter (talk) 10:29, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  While I am someone who doesn't place much stock in preemptive protection, and that includes the ARBPIA articles, I would pay you the princely sum of $1 if you can show me an article pertaining to the India-Pakistan conflict that has never been subject to any disruptive or nationalistic editing. Preemptive is not something that applies here. Fish+Karate 11:12, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Bhaskar Sadashiv Soman was the Chief of the Naval Staff (India) during the 1965 war. After looking at every edit in its history, I don't believe that it's ever had any nationalistic or other disruptive editing, and the closest thing to an editing dispute in its history is [2], where someone declined a db-copyvio because the infringing text could simply be removed. You didn't specify what kind of dollar...I want a Gold dollar in perfect condition, please :-) Nyttend backup (talk) 13:41, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Excellent work! I bet it took some hunting, though. You have won 1 Liberian Dollar; it has a value of around US$0.0062. Let me know where to send it. Fish+Karate 14:48, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Actually not. I figured that a comparatively minor military figure would be less likely to get disruption (if the other side's never heard of him, they won't know to mangle his article), so I looked up the 1965 war and clicked the names of the various commanders in the infobox until I found one without a significant revision history. (Less revisions = less chance of disruption, since lots of reversions expands the history.) Then, all I had to do was page through the revisions. As for the money, send it to my former employer. Their resources helped me expand related articles: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc. Nyttend (talk) 23:56, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong support as someone who frequently edits in the topic area. A step in the right direction. The topic area is infested with sock-puppets, and this is certainly going to help. --DBigXrayᗙ 13:00, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• I agree with TonyBallioni - admins already have the authority to incrementally apply indefinite ECP to the articles that need it. I don't think they should be preemptively protected, but the threshold for protection should be very low (e.g. any reasonable request, even in response to a small number of disruptive edits). If you want preemptive protection, an amendment request should be put forward to Arbcom. MER-C 17:10, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  @MER-C: (and @Ymblanter:, since they raised this concern above) We do not need an amendment from ARBCOM, because Ivanvector is proposing community-authorized sanctions that happen to overlap with ARBIPA discretionary sanction. Procedurally, broad community consensus is quite sufficient. Vanamonde (Talk) 19:51, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  We've just got two complaints today, on this very board, within the scope of the Arbcom case, one of which is about this conflict. That and the considering the general lack of clue in this part of the world tips me over to cautiously support. MER-C 20:20, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Central Discussion - I suggest that this be added to the Cent discussion list - going off others on the list, it's a broad enough issue (with major potential ramifications) that it warrants it. Nosebagbear (talk) 18:23, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Done and thanks for the suggestion. Someone may want to tweak my description of the discussion. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 20:41, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Reluctant Support Tony is right. We already have the authority to do this. Unfortunately, for the most part we haven't done it. I think there is a certain reluctance on the part of many admins (myself included) to push the ACDS button in all but the most egregious situations. And I also think that reluctance is generally good and healthy. I'm also not a big fan of one size fits all solutions to problems. That said, this really has become an area of pervasive and sometimes organized disruptive editing. IMO it is at least as bad as that which in the past afflicted the more highly trafficked Arab Israeli related articles. So yeah, this probably is something that needs to be done though I regret that necessity. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:19, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Cautious support I get the "reverse honey trap" argument and think there is a strong possibility that it will balloon to cover all South Asia (e.g., Bangladesh used to be part of Pakistan) but allowing sock-puppetry and brigading to rule the day is a worse outcome I feel. One merely means an overly-high level of protection, the other means Wiki relaying POV and potential false information. PS - but also, let's have a time limit at which we review whether this restriction is actually working. There's too many bans/restrictions that just get put in place and left there without anyone checking to see if they're still needed (e.g., is the Arbcom restriction on The Troubles still justified this far out from the Good Friday Agreement?). FOARP (talk) 08:23, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Support, as long as it is applied relatively narrowly. GAB^gab 22:00, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Support The point of extended confirmed protection is to direct new users to discuss the issue on the talk page. This issue is probably among the top 5 most contentious in Wikipedia, with a 1.5 billion / 150 crore people being upset. People supporting Pakistan claim that Wikipedia is biased for India, and people in India claim that Wikipedia is biased for Pakistan, and I expect we have 100,000 / ek lakh complaints. Directing people to discuss this is our best response. Blue Rasberry (talk) 22:31, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Support: for mercy on my watchlist. The revert wars and POV-pushing are getting just as toxic on these as the Arab-Israeli conflict. Discretionary sanctions could be applied as TonyBallioni said, but there's no harm in generating a nice discussion here so admins protecting such pages can link to it. SITH (talk) 16:18, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Support: The most complicated areas require the most experienced editors. This will free up admin time by reducing the number of PP requests and ANI threads, and it will encourage newer editors to go to the talk page first. Article stability will increase. There will be peace for a time. Levivich 07:06, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Support: Extended confirmed is reasonable and appropriate here. Benjamin (talk) 12:09, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Partial oppose/caution
  • Administrators may apply extended confirmed protection for any length of time or indefinitely to enforce this prohibition on any article they reasonably believe to be related to the conflict. This part I completely concur with and I hope the above discussion will encourage uninvolved admins to use the tools they have already been granted by WP:ARBIPA (and which seems to have wide community support).
  • On pages that are not protected, edits made contrary to the prohibition may be but are not required to be reverted without regard for the three-revert rule. Extended-confirmed editors may restore a reverted edit if they have a good-faith reason to do so, and are encouraged to explain in their edit summary; edits restored in this way must not be reverted without discussion. This is the part I am wary of since I forsee that this will result in edit wars, 3RR violations and meta-arguments on whether a page falls within the "India-Pakistan conflict" area or not (for example, does the whole or part of the Navjot Singh Sidhu article fall into that category due to this recent controversy?) Instead of extended-confirmed editors being free to flout 3RR if they have a "good-faith reason" to believe the article/topic/edit falls into the India-Pakistan conflict area, they should request EC protection and admins should respond more promptly and boldly.

And while I have your ears: the "India Pakistan conflict" has been and will probably remain a long-term problem area but over the next few months I expect that articles related to 2019 Indian general election will present an even larger number of, and more urgent, problems requiring admin intervention. Abecedare (talk) 18:18, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Abecedare: That's an excellent point. I'm not even sure why that language was placed in the ARBPIA restriction, since surely the best way to deal with such a situation is to request EC protection citing the relevant sanction, thereby avoiding an edit-war. Ivanvector I'm wondering if you could strike that portion, even now, since most people supporting this have commented generally on the need for preemptive protection, and less on the specifics of the wording. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:35, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's a misreading of my intent. What I mean is that if a non-EC editor makes an edit it may be reverted under this restriction, but equally it may be restored by any EC editor in good faith iff they take responsibility for the edit (the "editors may restore" directions at WP:EVADE though that's a bad place for it). At that point it is subject to 3RR or any more limiting revert restriction. If extended-confirmed editors start edit-warring over nitpicked interpretations of this restriction, then proceed with whatever your usual approach is to disruptive reversion. Just generally speaking, if you get two editors arguing over who it is that first crossed the bright line, a good approach is to block them both while directing them to WP:NOTTHEM. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 19:13, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I would not like a discriminatory policy like this. As long as there is no EC protection on a page, all editors should have the same privilege to edit. It would not be fair to non-EC editors otherwise. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:43, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak oppose I'm not sure doing this preemptively is the best of ideas. As TonyBalloni, Abecedare and others point out, it is not always easy to figure out whether an article comes under the conflict and we could easily see this being applied too broadly. For example, if the conflict with Pakistan becomes one of the talking points in the upcoming Indian elections, we could easily end up with a large number of election related articles under ECP and would lose an important opportunity for adding new editors from India. Applying restrictions rather than ECP on individual articles, or on flash point areas like the Kashmir conflict, gives us some level of control while keeping more articles open to new editors. What we really need is a full time ombudsperson to monitor and manage these articles and, since that is hard, this is just a weak oppose. --regentspark (comment) 22:37, 10 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I'm going to get accused of assuming bad faith here, but in my experience this is what actually happens. Yes, hot news topics and especially elections bring new editors to Wikipedia, and that's a good thing most of the time. New editors of course don't have a good idea of how things work here, and make entirely good-faith common mistakes like not providing a reference, editing based on "things they know", innocently edit warring, gentle POV skewing, and you know, stuff we've all seen and probably have had to gently coach a newbie on. The problem when it's a topic like this is that those new editors immediately get bitten by the established editors on one or the other sides of the conflict: their edit is reverted more or less immediately and they get a couple of big scary notices on their talk page about the discretionary sanctions and the potential punishments for not being perfect right out of the gate, or if they do have a good grasp of things they're immediately accused of being someone's sockpuppet. You can't really blame a new editor interested in Wikipedia from giving up on the project in short order when they encounter such behaviour. And yes, that aggressive behaviour is a problem and when we see it we should knock heads, but this is kind of a way to address it broadly. Not a fantastic solution, I know, but it's something. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 17:05, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong support There are many socks and meatpuppets. This will save the time of good faith editors. However those 500 edits should be on mainspace, not on talk pages or userpages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 42.110.216.115 (talk) 15:16, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Support: Pages related to the conflict have been under constant attack for a while to the point where ACP isn't enough. GN-z11 ^{☎ ★} 09:14, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Support with a clear definition of what a page must have in order to fall under the protection. Kirbanzo (talk) 17:02, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I recently came across a beautifully worded talk post from an editor who I have worked alongside for a long time.[3] It struck me as very strange, because throughout the time I have previously known him, his English has been very different [4][5][6][7]. It is the difference between a native and non-native speaker, a gap that cannot be bridged in a short period of time. Examples in the first link which I have not seen before from this user include colorful adverbs (e.g. aptly), particular latinate word choices (e.g. subsequently vs. “then/after/next”) and unblemished use of tense.

Is there any way to assess this further with respect to WP:NOSHARING, akin to an WP:SPI?

Onceinawhile (talk) 23:28, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Onceinawhile, Please make sure that you notify the editor in question of this thread, as is required by the red box at the top of this page. I have gone ahead and done this for you. SQL^{Query me!} 00:09, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for doing this so quickly. Onceinawhile (talk) 00:13, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Shrike's first edit was the creation of New England Role Playing Organization on 20 May 2006. Aside from reverting the removal of content and adding un-original content (e.g. citations and quotations), this looks like his next significant contribution to mainspace, 2 December 2006. After that, his next major contribution was the creation of Insulation monitoring device on 17 December 2006. These are the only edits I've seen in his first year of editing in which he added significant amounts of new content to mainspace. The first edit is rather different from the rest. Nyttend (talk) 00:53, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The editor created a few articles this year. Here are two of them after many edits from the editor, immediately before other editors got involved.[8][9]. 01:17, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

• Papirosn, last edit before someone else (the second diff in the comment just above mine)
• Mount Hope, Jaffa, last edit before someone else
• Arthur Menachem Hantke, last edit before someone else
• Félix-Marie Abel, last edit before someone else (the first diff above)

Do with these what you will. Nyttend (talk) 01:28, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have also interacted with Shrike for a long time. Onceinawhile is correct that it is quite impossible for Shrike to have written the indicated text without help. Nobody can advance from C-grade English to A-grade overnight. Nableezy raised the same question on Shrike's talk page, which Shrike (whose English level had somehow returned to C-grade) refused to answer: I will not gonna answer You baseless WP:ASPERATIONS is another example of you WP:BATTLE mode.But I will say this I certainly didn't broke any rules. I'm not alleging that Shrike violated a policy, but I do believe an explanation is in order. Zero^talk 05:20, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Related, go to this version (earlier this year) of Shrike's talk, scroll down to the bottom, and un-hide the collapsed text; you'll see people asking the same question. Nyttend (talk) 05:47, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Note to Onceinawhile: The post you cite and link to in your OP was not on a talkpage, it was on this noticeboard (AN) [10]. It seems clear to me that Shrike had someone else word the post -- someone who is very familiar with Wikipedia's ins and outs and jargon. It was a very long and detailed, six-paragraph OP about TheGracefulSlick's transgressions. Shrike's subsequent posts in that same thread reverted to his inadequate English. So something is going on. Softlavender (talk) 06:39, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Pinging Icewhiz as he may have some idea about this. Softlavender (talk) 06:46, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• This appears quite speculative to me, and why has this become a problem a month after the fact. Might it be a timely response to this? Also within days of all of this happening – also involving Shrike. For all intents and purposes, the only thing that may be demonstrated is that Shrike had some help writing the post. Proxying? potentially, but Shrike and TGS have overlap in the IP editing area, and for whom would they be proxying? Their personally filing the case is entirely unsurprising, given that they also started the Your unblock conditions thread on TGS' talk page. Proxying, thus, appears unlikely. GizzyCatBella proposes a more likely explanation that [p]ossibly the editor received some assistance in drafting the note in perfect English [...]. Not unusual, or prohibited. Mr rnddude (talk) 08:03, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Shrike and I recently collaborated on a DYK. I noticed the line through TGS’s name on a talk page yesterday so traced back to find out why. I hope that is a clear explanation. It is the type of explanation I would like to hear from Shrike. His collaboration with the mystery second editor could be innocuous or it could also be the tip of something very bad for our encyclopaedia. Onceinawhile (talk) 11:24, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I was about to AGF, but then you rounded it out with: or it could also be the tip of something very bad for our encyclopaedia. I'm not interested in conspiracy theories. Get evidence for the latter, or go do something else. Mr rnddude (talk) 08:56, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(EC) I don't quite understand why proxying is unlikely because Shrike was someone who we would have expected to file a case/has legitimate interest. If I were a banned (whether topic or site) or blocked editor or simply someone without active sanction who wanted to evade scrutiny, looking for someone to proxy for me I'd look for several things. One is someone who could be reasonably expected to file a case. I definitely would avoid choosing someone who had never ever been involved in the area ever before since frankly it would raise too many questions. Now I'd also choose someone who I'd believe would be compliant, preferably someone I was friends with to increase the chance of compliance, and someone who could reasonably have written the message I wrote for them. The first two could obviously apply if proxying were involved, there's no way for me to know. The last one clearly didn't happen. But it doesn't seem sufficient evidence in itself since frankly making sure that the person's English level and commenting style is similar enough to yours is probably one of the easiest things to miss. Remember that proxying is frowned upon, even if you had legitimate interest in what is being proxied and may have eventually written your own version of what's being proxied because banned means banned. At a minimum, it's reasonable that editors should disclose if what they're posting was actually written by a banned or blocked editor or even an editor in good standing who doesn't want to be associated with the complaint and they're posting because they agree it's a legitimate complaint. Note that I'm not saying this happened, but rather I see no reason to say it's unlikely from the limited evidence at hand. Personally, if Shrike at simply clarified when queried about it way back that they had help but the person who helped them wasn't blocked or banned, I would AGF on that. The fact they've been so evasive is what causes concern and makes me feel it would be best if they disclose to arbcom or whatever who helped them. (I'm not saying I would support any sanction if they don't but being part of a community means sometimes it's good if you deal with concerns even without any threat of sanction for not doing so.) Nil Einne (talk) 11:39, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nil Einne - I had forgotten that I had posted here and hadn't bothered to check whether someone had responded to me. In short, per WP:PROXYING, Wikipedians in turn are not permitted to post or edit material at the direction of a banned or blocked editor unless they are able to show that the changes are either verifiable or productive and they have independent reasons for making such edits. Shrike can do both. The discussion resulted in the community ban being reimposed (thus productive), and Shrike had reason to initiate the discussion (thus independent). If you have any evidence that Shrike was proxying for CrazyAces, even if it doesn't fall under proxying for the preceding reason, then post it. Otherwise, there's nothing to be done here. I'm not going to shove an editor under the proverbial bus without evidence. Mr rnddude (talk) 08:56, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment, by way of explanation: Some folks here do not seem to understand that it appears that Shrike may have been proxying for a banned editor. For those who don't know the whole long story, TheGracefulSlick was endlessly hounded and harassed by CrazyAces489 (talk · contribs) and later by CrazyAces' numerous sockpuppets. If Shrike took the wording of that long involved AN filing from CrazyAces489 or his socks, that would be a breach. As it is, the only other person whom I can think would have the motive, knowledge, English skills, and wherewithal to write such a lengthy and detailed and nuanced and perfect-English filing of TheGracefulSlick's missteps would be Icewhiz, who had also apparently been observing his edits -- but there's no reason that Icewhiz would not have filed his own AN post rather than merely providing text to Shrike (who clearly does not have the ability to write what he posted in that AN filing). Softlavender (talk) 12:23, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  I wasn't aware that the TGS was hounded. In that case, I think it's more imperative that Shrike explain either privately or publicly who helped them with that post. Failing that, I'd be willing to support some sanction. Perhaps a topic ban on bringing on participating in complaints about other editors to AN//I or AE. They may still participate in any discussions about them of course. Nil Einne (talk) 13:46, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Pinging Nableezy, who brought the issue up on Shrike's talkpage last month. Softlavender (talk) 12:31, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• SHRIKE, THE TRIBE HAS SPOKEN. Y'all have too much free time. You're trying to rule on something you have no information on whatsoever, in order to enforce rules that are essentially unenforceable and fundamentally wrong. Hey, Shrike! Can I have the password to your email account? I wanna see who you've been chatting with. Oh, and please hand over your phone. François Robere (talk) 13:07, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Nothing to see here Even if Shrike is copying, verbatim, a banned editor, that's not prohibited under PROXYING. What Shrike is doing (assuming of course that they didn't just ask somebody for English help/spending some time drafting) is taking responsibility for the contents of the post, and they must demonstrate that the changes are productive. Given that the discussion in question lead to the reimposing of an indef on TGS, I think that is prima facie evidence that the post was productive. ∰Bellezzasolo✡ Discuss 13:18, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  I find it highly questionable whether posting something verbatim from an editor who has hounded the editor you're posting about without at least disclosing it came from said editor is not a violation of WP:HOUNDING. Frankly if it is, I think wikipedia has completely failed as a community to protect each other. There's absolutely zero reason why an editor in good standing, including Shrike, couldn't have brought a complaint about TGS without involving the socking harasser. There's absolutely no reason why Shrike couldn't have simply said fuck you to CrazyAces489 if it really was them. or at the very least, revealed they were bringing a complain which had been written by CrazyAces489. Because that's how we should treat editors who think it's acceptable to hound their fellow editors. Tell them to fuck off because we can handle stuff without them. TGS may have been a highly problematic editor, but we owned them the basic courtesy of keeping away hounding socks from them, or at the very least, disclosing to them if we were going to ban them based on a case effectively brought by a hounding sock. Nil Einne (talk) 13:48, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Actually I'll put it more simply. If it is true that Shrike is proxying for a socking hounder, and Shrike wants to take responsibility for that edit, then they are taking responsibility for hounding another editor. We are also free to sanction them for engaging in hounding. There should never be any reason why hounding is acceptable, even if the editor being hounded deserves sanction by independent action unrelated to the hounding. This is not simply a matter of semantics since it's completely understandable an editor may feel angry by the fact that they were sanctioned from a discussion started effectively by a hounder, even if were they to look at it fairly, they would recognise the sanction itself was entirely justified. There is absolutely zero reason the discussion which lead to the sanction had to be so tainted. This isn't a case where the hounder managed to evade scrutiny and post before we caught them but one where if it is true, they were enabled by an editor here. Nil Einne (talk) 13:56, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• One final comment on the issue for clarity, since I believe the AE case which was mentioned above has some similarities. If a sock initiates a case and it's closed as coming from a sock, I'm not saying the text has to be thrown out. Actually it may be okay to re-use the case verbatim. In such examples, at least it's disclosed and it's questionable if it's worth re-writing anything if it isn't needed. I consider this fairly different from an example where, unsolicited, an editor who has been hounding another editor to the extent of using socks, sends a case privately or semi-privately to an editor in good standing, and said editor in good standing posts it without disclosing this happened. IMO it should just be completely thrown out, i.e. I'm not even going to bother to read by any editor receiving it. But still, I could accept it if it was disclosed that it came or they believe it came from such an editor. Nil Einne (talk) 14:28, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I already said that I didn't edited on behalf of banned/blocked user [11] when I first was approached by Nableezy and yes I asked for help with my English as I far as I know its not against any policy per Mr rnddude. In my understanding the complain by OW its part of WP:BATTLE behavior because I didn't allow his WP:POV a DYK nomination to be presented as he wanted--Shrike (talk) 15:05, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

BTW it could be easily checked by CU there was no interaction between me and CrazyAces489 or his socks by email or by other means I authorize such check on my behalf --Shrike (talk) 15:09, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• • Comment Shrike: ok, let us accept your word, that you didn't get help of the banned CrazyAces489 or his socks, but you did indeed get help of someone, let us call them X, with your English. Fair enough. My problem is that with, say the sentence that Nableezy quotes below: that sentence reveal an intimate knowledge of not only English, but with Wikipedia matter. My non−Wikipedian native−English speaking friends would simply not have managed to produce such a sentence. My question is then, is the person(s) who helped you with your English a present or former Wikipedian? If so, who? You don't have to tell me, but I really think you should disclose it to some "higher authority" here. Huldra (talk) 23:48, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is literally zero chance that the person who wrote this also wrote this. It literally boggles the mind that anybody would believe that somebody who, in a freaking encyclopedia article, wrote such beautiful prose as organization that advocate Palestinian right of return and One-state solution for majority of Jews that means end of Israel as Jewish state also wrote "a view not shared by Cullen328 who saw this as a commitment to the community, or TonyBallioni who aptly noted that while "controversial subjects" is so overly broad that it is unenforceable". Or hell, just count the commas in the AN complaint and the ones in Shrike's response above. Compare the number of run-on sentences. Compare the grammar of "I didn't edited on behalf" and the literally perfect prose of the AN complaint. Now why would somebody have Shrike post a complaint on AN for them? It isnt as though you need to be extended-confirmed, or autoconfirmed even, to post there. The only reason I can fathom for having somebody else post a complaint is if the person who wrote it is prohibited from posting it. As far as the claims of nothing to see here, no, there is. If Shrike made a complaint that was written by and at the direction of a user banned from doing so he has violated WP:BAN. There is, as far as I can tell, no other reason why Shrike would post a complaint that he so clearly did not write. Anybody who believes Shrike actually wrote TheGracefulSlick clearly does not see their commitment, in their unblock request endorsed by the community, as a commitment. The community unblocked based on the statements in the unblock request. Given the circumstances, a community discussion is warranted. Maybe I missed something and this commitment should be seen as voluntary and vacated as a user claim?, please see me at my talk page, there is a bridge in Brooklyn I have been looking to sell. nableezy - 17:30, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The original question was whether there is an SPI-equivalent process that could be used to get to the bottom of this. I am assuming from the above that the answer is no, but can anyone confirm? Onceinawhile (talk) 15:41, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The process should be expected in the space above. Technically, 'administrator' (or perhaps checkuser) is the process if any action is expected, but here's a fairly good place to find them loitering. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 17:00, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what NOSHARING is meant to be, but if you mean the misuse of an account by multiple people, WP:ROLE I believe is the correct guideline, and if not SPI then right here is the venue. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 17:23, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NOSHARING is part of the username policy but also contains a prohibition on shared accounts. I would agree that SPI is the best place to deal with shared account issues. --AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 17:16, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For his reports of other editors, Shrike has "gotten help with his English" from some undisclosed person who is obviously intimately well−versed in Wikipedia affairs. I think this other person should do his/her own reporting.

I therefor suggest the following motion: Shrike will in the future not be allowed to report any other editor to WP:AE, WP:AN or WP:AN/I.

• Support, as nominator, Huldra (talk) 20:40, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment this ridiculous I am well versed with Wikipedia affairs so I don't need anyone help with this and as per Mr rnddude I did nothing wrong as I didn't break any policy.I think its time for WP:BOOMERANG as Huldra came here just because of our interaction in WP:ARBPIA to continue wage her WP:BATTLE here and make frivolous proposals. --Shrike (talk) 21:59, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Support As explained in the examples above, Shrike is obviously being fed text from someone familiar with WP:ARBPIA—text that the author is unable to post themselves. ARBPIA is possibly the most contentious topic at Wikipdia and Shrike's doubling-down with a denial of reality shows this remedy is the minimum requirement. Johnuniq (talk) 23:09, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• I dont know why Shrike cant just tell us the truth. Who wrote the report? No, it was not "getting help with his English", that is absurd. The entirety of that report was written by somebody else. User:Shrike, who wrote it? If you cant, or wont, answer that Id support the proposal. nableezy - 01:10, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose. No evidence has been presented of any WikiCrime. Receiving help (from anyone of 360 million English speakers as a first language) translating/proofing is not a WikiCrime. Looking at the AN report it contains 526 words, of which only 294 are actual original text, the rest being user links, quotes of other users (5 extensive quotes), and diffs (around 18 of them). Compiling the 5 quotes + 18 diffs is the hard part here. As Shrike points out above, he knows WikiJargon. Seeing that some folk have been making fun of Shrike's English for years it is understandable he would want help translating/proofing.Icewhiz (talk) 06:16, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Boomerang/regular admin action against Nableezy. Looking at the thread above - [12]+[13] is disgusting ethnic trolling, made after and right below where Shrike said he had help with English! Looks like Nableezy picked the baddest bits of English he could find (Mobile? Written fast?). Looking at [14] or [15] (mainspace creations, last diff by Shrike prior to another editor editing), contrary to Nableezy's words,[16] Shrike knows how to use commas (something that is not English specific), and while there are mistakes many of them are wrong spellchecker choices (lose->loose). Making fun of someone's English - HR employee fired for appearing to mock applicant's English, ABC News, 25 Jan 2018 - is ethnic trolling that in the real world gets people fired, and should not be tolerated here.Icewhiz (talk) 06:41, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

lol ok. Good luck with that. Ethnic trolling? What exactly are you smoking? nableezy - 17:10, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• On the same note - diff by Huldra saying "Shrike has "gotten help with his English"" or diff by Nableezy saying "it was not "getting help with his English"" - putting what may appear to be funny words in Shrike's mouth (by quoting) when Shrike had said no such thing AFAICT (he said diff - "and yes I asked for help with my English as I far as I know its not against any policy per Mr rnddude." Making fun of peoples' English is not acceptable. Icewhiz (talk) 07:05, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: It's clear that someone else wrote the entirety of the report. The only people I can think of who would have the motive and the knowledge would be CrazyAces489, Icewhiz, or Garagepunk66. CrazyAces489 and his socks have been inactive for two years, although some whackjobs do carry on their campaigns to infinity. Garagepunk66 is too mild-mannered, and just wants to be left alone and to not be subject to TGS's harassment; he's not the type of person to take such active measures against someone who had already promised to leave him alone, plus he is largely inactive. Icewhiz just posted an odd and apparently unwarranted rant against Nableezy (and now one against Huldra). In any case, whoever it was that wrote the report in absentia is unlikely to do it via a mouthpiece again. And Shrike is unlikely to have anyone write reports for him in the future. So I oppose this proposal, unless Shrike does this again -- posts something on a noticeboard he clearly did not write himself. Softlavender (talk) 07:07, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Unless Huldra can demonstrate that Shrike said somewhere that he has "gotten help with his English" (I searched - only Huldra) - then misquoting Shrike in this manner should be seen as an ethnic based personal attack. An "if you no speak English" was sufficient to get a guy fired from a real-life job.[17] Icewhiz (talk) 07:20, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Are you kidding me????? You do know that English is my fourth language, right? (Thats right: I grew up hearing 3 different languages every day; none of them English.) So I am acutely aware that there is room for improvement in my English. To my ignorant ears "gotten help with his English" sounded like a good rephrasing of what Shrike said; if I am wrong, then obviously I am open for correction, (and obviously it was a rephrasing: note the word "his".) Huldra (talk) 10:53, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  As "gotten help with his English" was in quote marks - it very clearly reads as an attributed quote to Shrike (who is the person being discussed - "For his reports of other editors, Shrike has "gotten help with his English" from...")."got help" would read better, however my comment wasn't on the grammar but on misquoting another editor - the choice to use quotation marks here has nothing to do with English (quotation marks, as commas, are the same in most European languages), misquoting someone is a pretty big deal.Icewhiz (talk) 11:29, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Actually, you wrote that "misquoting Shrike in this manner should be seen as an ethnic based personal attack". (And that's an exact quote.) Thats a pretty serious charge against me. Huldra (talk) 11:44, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Then don't imply that other editors wrote something they hadn't. Beyond the has/had issue in the sentence, by quoting Shrike allegedly writing "gotten" you were implying Shrike speaks American English,Oxford - "the form gotten is not used in British English but is very common in North American English", more -[18][19]. The American/British divide is a realm filled with national/ethnic tensions. Icewhiz (talk) 13:05, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Huh??? Shrike says on his user page that he comes from Israel, and I, by using "gotten" were purposely attempting to open the "American/British divide [..] filled with national/ethnic tensions"????? Yeah, rrrright...the American/British divide is of course much, much more serious that the Israeli/Palestinian divide (<sarcasm/>). You know, Icewhiz, sometimes when you are in hole, it is just best to stop digging. (PS, again: you wrote: "misquoting Shrike in this manner should be seen as an ethnic based personal attack". I still say that is a pretty serious charge against me.) (PPS: thank you for your trust in my English capabilities....I had of course no idea that "gotten" was associated with American English) Huldra (talk) 20:48, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose I will be back to examine this in greater depth but at first glance it seems to be a fairly uncorroborated claim that borders on WP:ASPERSION. The gist of the case against Shrike, apparently, is that someone thought his English sucked and suddenly it improved one time in a report (a high stress situation where one might take time to improve their language or request help on linguistic - not policy - grounds). The poor guy seems he can't win in this paradigm-- post normally and his English is mocked and he suffers the prejudice that is all too often inflicted on those who were not born into the fortune of never having to struggle with English, while if he puts in too much effort, he is subjected to rather unsubstantiated claims of proxying. I have been looking for the evidence and maybe I missed it but I can't seem to find anything worthy of conviction here, and far from it... Conversely, if sufficient evidence is not presented, this case, with all the implications of harassing someone for their English (it's good so it couldn't be you) is at the very least something that merits a heart felt apology from the poster.--Calthinus (talk) 11:23, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Unsubstantiated? Just read the report. I seriously cannot believe that anybody can, in good faith, say that is anywhere close to the English Shrike has used both prior and after that edit. It boggles the mind honestly. nableezy - 17:28, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nableezy it is entirely unsubstantiated, so much so that nobody even knows who this mysterious editor is, or if they even exist. One guy, CrazyAces, has been floated by someone who wasn't the OP, on incredibly spurious grounds, and not even any textual comparison to demonstrate habits that are particular to CrazyAces. Normally if this were an SPI, you would try to match his language to that of a banned user-- but not a single candidate has seriously been brought forward. The entire gist of this report is the offensive premise that Shrike's English is so broken he is incapable of fixing it with effort -- and that is itself demeaning. Now we can consider the case where, after years of having his English mocked, he goes for help. This is not unlikely, especially with all the implications present in the hegemonic Anglosphere -- that one who lacks the luck to have naturally acquired English is uneducated, stupid, etc... which are demonstrably unfair as can even be cited with RS. Indeed, prejudice against those speaking non-standard English has been compared in literature to racism, and can have similar unjust implications with regards to jobs, housing, et cetera. Now, imagine that, after experiencing this sort of bigotry for years, Shrike tries to ameliorate the situation and gets help with his English... only for editors to try to use that to link him to some imaginary banned editor they can't even identify, to sanction him. This deserves not a report, but an apology, and a pledge to refrain from such bigotry again. His English is not standard, but it is clearly comprehensible and that has always been what truly matters. --Calthinus (talk) 18:53, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No, that is not the premise. The premise is that for edits both prior to and following the report Shrike uses grammar and language that is in no way even in the same ballpark as what the report uses. Nobody called him uneducated, stupid, or any of the other things you think they are saying. What I at least have said is that it is obvious that he did not write that report. And you can stick your head in the sand and scream AGF all you want, but that is not a suicide pact, and if you spend even two minutes looking at his edits, both in this this thread and anywhere else on Wikipedia you will quickly find a level of English that is at odds with using the word "aptly" aptly. I dont think anybody mocked his English for years, or even now. I am not mocking anything, I dont begrudge an editor with poor English editing on Wikipedia. I wish they would not put poor English in actual articles, but that is something that anybody can fix. But, and heres the issue, the idea that somebody can go from writing second language level English to perfect prose for one report, and then somehow regresses back to that second language level English is a non-starter. Shrike did not write that report, full stop. This bullshit about bigotry is exactly that. Im a bigot because I question how somebody can go from writing Part are you unblock conditions that you have taken upon yourself was ... If you want to remove this condition that OK but you should ask permission to a view not shared by Cullen328 who saw this as a commitment to the community, or TonyBallioni who aptly noted that while "controversial subjects" is so overly broad that it is unenforceable and then shortly after back to, in that same discussion, OK lets asses the community consensus here is a three proposals? Bullshit. nableezy - 19:04, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Just because you didn't notice anyone mocking his English doesn't mean it never happened (see also "I never saw a racism in my life, I have black friends..." et cetera). Is it really so hard to imagine that someone put in effort (including asking for help) to improve their English? It's easy to imagine, let's say I purchase one of the many, many, many books available -- or web services -- to Hebrew speakers to help them express what they would say in Hebrew in English, so they can be just as eloquent. Or he even may have asked a friend "how do you say ----- in English exactly"... this is not hard to imagine in the slightest. AGF is a thing. And by the way, my reaction to this would be very different if you had presented credible evidence of Shrike adopting the peculiar habits of another user -- even if these particular habits are specific to people based on native language (native Slavic speakers omitting "the", native Chinese speakers confusing pronouns when they're tired, Balkanians using the infinitive for the past participle i.e. "he had to forgot"). What I am illustrating here is that the difference between those (acceptable) and this (not) is that the premise of this is that Shrike is unable to improve his English no matter how hard he tries. And you should really apologize for that, as it is, while perhaps unintended, a veiled personal attack. --Calthinus (talk) 19:53, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, sure, thats what happened. A veiled personal attack? How about the outright one of calling people bigots? Get off it, yall can make these asinine leaps of logic, but Shrike's English has not improved. I dont know if you are purposely missing the point or not. Shrike's English, both before and after that edit is not the same as that edit. If Shrike's English had improved, magically or otherwise, then why in that same thread, after posting a perfectly written complaint, did he regress back to here is a three proposals? Oh, he must have had one of those temporary English lesson plans that are valid only for ten minutes, after which back to normal. Silly me, I should have assumed that. nableezy - 20:13, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nableezy Someone can behave in a way shaped by bigotry subconsciously without being a bigot -- which I never implied. I bet if someone analyzed my French online they would find the proficiency is inconsistent. Sometimes I put in more effort than others, when I'm lazy I just use English grammar in French, knowing its probably wrong but typing quickly. The correct thing to do is to apologize.--Calthinus (talk) 22:19, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

lol, sure buddy, this is just inconsistent proficiency. Like I said, keep your head in the sand if you want. I choose not to. Also, might want to crack open a dictionary. Or keep your head in the sand on that one too. nableezy - 22:27, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Systemic bias is not personal.--Calthinus (talk) 22:31, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Im not sure what that is supposed to be an answer to, considering you said bigotry and not bias. My dictionary says bigotry: the state of mind of a bigot. And acts or beliefs characteristic of a bigot. I dont really care all that much, there clearly is nothing that is going to be done about this. But the chances of my apologizing for saying something obviously true, that somebody besides Shrike wrote that report, is approximately zero. Which is also the amount of thinking I will give to bullshit accusations of bigotry. Have a good day. nableezy - 22:47, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose - Even presupposing that the aspersions cast were 100% true, I would not support preventing an editor from being able to raise legitimate issues at the appropriate administrator's noticeboards without substantial evidence that they only used those boards to cause disruption. No evidence to that effect has so far been presented and that's with the presupposition that the aspersion cast was 100% true. The central allegation that "he didn't write it himself now did he?" (bogan Australian accent) Shrike has confirmed "yes, I had help; no it did not come from CrazyAces" which without evidence to the contrary is sufficient. You know, that whole principle of guilt needing to be proven. WP:SPI is that way if you want to prove your allegations – which has been stated in the above section by none other than a CU toting Admin. Mr rnddude (talk) 11:40, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Burn the witch! We need no further proof than that his English magically improved - it's clear that Satan helped him! Burn him at the stake (and make room for marshmallows)! François Robere (talk) 13:06, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose - Shrike says they merely asked for help with English. There's no evidence that this is other than the case. I'm personally of the opinion that it wouldn't matter if the person in question was a banned Wikipedian or not. The report (Shrike's) had merit, as evidenced by the consequent imposition of an indef. Shrike would have had independent reasons for making the report. Consequently, I would not see this as a policy violation, even if it was copied verbatim from a banned editor (although it would raise questions re HOUNDING, that requires further speculation on which particular banned editor... hardly actionable). In light of that, and the assumed truth of Shrike's statement (with a complete dearth of evidence to the contrary, it's quite possible correct English around a lack of policy understanding), I would say that any sanction here would be based on speculation and conjecture. All we know is that an editor got help with their English, off wiki, be it from a non Wikipedian or a Wikipedian. ∰Bellezzasolo✡ Discuss 13:59, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose this request and I am strongly in favor of a boomerang. This is more atrocious and just troubling. The "other side" just keeps coming up with ways to shut the opposition out. Sir Joseph ^(talk) 17:39, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Considering that:

• The Mystery of the Improved English was over a month ago.
• No actual evidence of any actual wrongdoing has been provided. It's all speculation and innuendo.
• Onceinawhile (the filer of this report) didn't even participate in the discussion where all this happened [20]
• We should be cognizant of how the filer sees editing Wikipedia. In his own words - he considers himself a "footsoldier fighting [...] in one of wikipedia's battlegrounds"(emphasis mine) [21]

While it could be interesting to hear Onceinawhile's explanation on why he waited a month to submit this report and how he found out about the whole thing in the first place, it is very obvious this is a BATTLE attempt to get rid of an opponent for something the editor (or as he sees himself, the "footsoldier") wasn't even involved in. I suggest a BOOMERANG with a minimum sanction (in the spirit of Huldra's proposal above) of him not being allowed to report Shirke on any board. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 20:52, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Support as nom. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 20:52, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In August of 2018, I was put under a topic ban. See Incident no. 989 topic ban. I have been active in geographical / historical related articles, as well as in the Arab-Israeli conflict area since joining Wikipedia and have tried to bring balance to articles touching upon this important topic. I wish to reaffirm my commitment to assume good faith and to treat all fellow editors with due respect, and whenever differences surface, I will do my utmost best to approach our differences with civility, looking for consensus to resolve any differences that might arise. No man can claim that I am not here to build an encyclopedia, as I have consistently tried to improve Wikipedia. In the field of ARBPI I have especially tried to bring balance and neutrality to the way Wikipedia reports on this conflict.Davidbena (talk) 19:19, 14 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have gone through David's edits (which took ages, he's remained quite active) and do not see any instances of his breaching the topic ban since this back at the end of August, which was only debatably a breach, and resulted in a reasonable discussion on his talk page clarifying the scope of the topic ban. I do not see any editing that could be construed as nonconstructive or disruptive. I am happy to support removing this topic ban, with the usual caveat I'm sure David will be aware of - that resumption of any problematic behaviour would likely lead to a block, not just a topic ban. Fish+Karate 13:11, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support I agree with Fish and karate I think David contributions are constructive moreover In my opinion he overcame the problems that led him to the topic ban. --Shrike (talk) 22:34, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Davidbena should show some understanding of what the problem was that led to the topic ban in order to give some assurance that they will be able to avoid similar problems. The fact that someone can edit non-contentious topics does not mean they are ready to return to the most contentious topic at Wikipedia (WP:ARBPIA). Johnuniq (talk) 23:15, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Support I supported a 6 month topic ban back on 3 August last year...and since that is over 6 months ago, I support the lifting of the topic ban now....with some trepidation, I confess. (I do hope he will refrain from speculations about who I am married to, my ethnicity, my education level, etc, etc, in the future.) To Davidbena's "plus−side" is definitely that he is studying, and looking up sources like few others in the I/P area. I just hope he will be quicker bringing any questionable sources to the RS boards in the future, Huldra (talk) 23:18, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Personally I support the appeal, David is generally a very fine editor. I just hope the issues with OR do not reappear when he returns, but I personally see no reason to not allow his return. If there are future problems there can be a future ban. nableezy - 01:07, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Support the unban. If there does not appear to be a likelihood of continuing disruption, there is no need for the topic ban to continue. DGG ( talk ) 04:34, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. David is polite, well mannered, makes constructive edits, and is motivated by good faith. His many contributions during the topic ban, to other non-conflict Israel/Middle-East (a hard feat to avoid the conflict while editing in the geographic area) - were constructive.Icewhiz (talk) 07:10, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Support The fact that excellent editors with a very different point of view on topics covered by ARBPIA are supporting the lifting of this topic ban is both persuasive and heartening to me. I truly hope that this editor will be a constructive and collaborative contributor to the topic area going forward. Such editors are very valuable. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:23, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Diligent compliance with the ban shows maturity and desire to improve. Hope they'll proceed with more caution in the subject area from now on. –Ammarpad (talk) 11:46, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have an IP who is desperate to insert some content on Conversion therapy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), I have been trying to talk them through the sourcing that would be needed for this to meet NPOV, but I suddenly thought: is rejecting a pending change counted as a revert? I assumed not, from the definition of PC, but actually thinking about it there is no real technical difference at the back end, it's only a procedural thing, and it turns out I have no idea one way or the other. Thoughts, please? Have I got this horribly wrong? Guy (Help!) 18:43, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• To me; it's a revert and pretty obviously.∯WBG^converse 18:56, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• (edit conflict) I think not, but specific to this situation, and a good idea to ask the question in any case. The protection log for this page reads "non-autoconfirmed edits need review, as a minimum" beside the pending changes activation. You've given a valid reason to not accept the edit. The IP is edit-warring to re-add the same material without addressing the valid concern, they're just insisting that they're right. One or the other of you should have gone to the talk page by now, but WP:ONUS suggests that's on them. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 19:01, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Following up: not to suggest wrongdoing by either party, I have protected the page for 2 days. If that is not enough time to resolve the issue please let me know; I have the page on my watchlist. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 19:05, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• My understanding is that it counts as a revert minus the standard exceptions. WP:RPC refers to the options the reviewer checks the pending change(s) for an article and can then decide to either accept it, revert it or modify it then later accept it. PackMecEng (talk) 19:07, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• I don't see why not. Someone adds content, and you reject it. If the individual kept adding it and kept adding it, and you kept rejecting it and kept rejecting it, the two of you could be sanctioned for edit-warring unless it were a case of 3RRNO. Better to protect the page; thank you Ivanvector. Nyttend (talk) 00:26, 16 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Qatar Charity has several users concerned about whitewashing by single purpose accts, possible socks etc. Can an Admin look into this page. Thanks Legacypac (talk) 09:17, 16 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Please change the Macedonia with North Macedonia to Template:MKD. Do the same to Template:Country data Macedonia. Some changes maybe needed to other template as Template:Flagicon etc. Xaris333 (talk) 10:28, 16 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:Edit requests for how to request edits to protected templates. — JJMC89 (T·C) 10:32, 16 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have queries about the closure of the RfC held here. The closing editor originally closed as "No consensus (whatsoever) emerged in this discussion! And It is closed with prejudice. Even while the participants have, only ever, acted in good faith." (diff) I queried the closing editor at their talk page about their rationale, as did several other editors, which saw the closing editor change their close statement to "...It is closed with aggrieve (The original use of "with prejudice" (as a qualifier) was a poorly thought choice. It was refactored to use "with aggrieve" instead)..." (diff) which sparked further confusion from myself and other editors at the term "with aggrieve". After further discussion with several editors, the closing editor once again changed their closing statement with an overhauled rationale (diff). While I belive no consensus is a reasonable outcome of the RfC, I still believe the line "Important: Write U.S. with periods, but write UK without periods (full stops) as per WP:NCA." in the Naming convention in question contradicts MOS:US and a consensus at the Village pump. My questions are:

• (1) is the closure rationale appropriate in each of the three versions the closing editor has given, particularily given the closing editor's annoyance that a request to close was made in the first place in their first two closing statements and their claim that the RfC was not publicised wide enough for their liking despite the fact it was advertised in the relevant WikiProject and the Village Pump.
• (2) does the editor's closing mean an RfC on the same topic cannot be initiated again? The terms "closed with prejudice" and "closed with aggrieve" would seem to indicate that I or another editor is prevented from bringing up the issue again, but I (and another editor stated the same in discussion) could find the rationale or further detail for this.

I would appreciate some further guidance and clarity on the matter. Thanks -- Whats new?^(talk) 05:36, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings. I will not clutter this discussion with a response (at this time) as the questions are not directed to me. I am, nevertheless, willing, and standing by in case I am needed for any reason regarding this matter. Thank you. And best regards.--John Cline (talk) 06:29, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

With all due respect to John Cline, given the confusion, I think it would be best if this is re-closed by an admin. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 01:27, 18 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am uncertain if this is a typing error alluding to an unquantified level of respect (I am not trying to imply that I am due any respect at all) or if it's a duly noted request that I voluntarily concur with the suggested corrective measure (seeing that the OP did not formally challenge the closure or ask that it be overturned). Before I respond, I'd like to ask Newyorkbrad to clarify his intent. Thank you.--John Cline (talk) 08:46, 18 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Typo fixed, sorry. Newyorkbrad (talk) 11:25, 18 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Can we have some more eyes on this thread, please. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:57, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Arbitration Committee has resolved by motion that:

For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 23:26, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Arbitration motion regarding Eastern Europe and Macedonia

Hi guys, sorry to ask here but can I get a quickie IP block exemption for User:Hariata77. Currently working at an Edit-a-thon and running into issues with one of the editors here being unable to edit do to a range block on her IP (I think the university uses a range of IPs distributed at random and some are blocked and others are not; the one she is on is blocked). I tried to go through the steps of requesting an IP block exemption from her account but it seems bugged and I really want to get her editing ASAP. Thanks, — Insertcleverphrasehere ^{(or here)}_{(click me!)} 23:23, 18 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, now done. Nyttend (talk) 00:37, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nyttend, Thanks mate. Issue fixed now. — Insertcleverphrasehere ^{(or here)}_{(click me!)} 00:41, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Very good. Please notify me if you have any other issues. I'll try to be online for a few more hours (it's 7:45PM here in eastern North America) in case IPs get reassigned midway through your event and someone else gets rangeblocked. Nyttend (talk) 00:46, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, could someone run a script to delete all 88 pages that are linked from User:Nyttend/Ohio NRHP/archive box? Thank you. Nyttend (talk) 23:29, 18 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done. For future reference, if you have Twinkle, it is the "d-batch" tab. Killiondude (talk) 23:49, 18 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I don't run scripts. Nyttend (talk) 00:35, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Good grief! Your poor fingers! Dlohcierekim (talk) 14:11, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hello all, there is currently an open request to grant edit filter manager access to Suffusion of Yellow. To comment on this request please use the primary discussion at: Wikipedia:Edit_filter_noticeboard#Edit_filter_manager_right_for_Suffusion_of_Yellow. Thank you, — xaosflux ^Talk 00:15, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Respected sir/madam i wanted to help write a topic under state India got after British colonization but came across some problems as i am new to wiki editing thing i was wondering if you might help these are some of the contents please have a look and if you please i request you to create one article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Nepal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepal%E2%80%93Britain_Treaty_of_1923 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Sugauli — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mahir.07 (talk • contribs) 06:05, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Mahir.07 Please use Wikipedia:Article wizard link to create new article. If you are copying content from an existing article on wikipedia, then in the WP:EDIT SUMMARY you have to mention the name of the article, from where you have copied the content. See this WP:TWA tutorial for a quick editing guide, Good luck. --DBigXrayᗙ 10:16, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It has been over a year that I was unblocked, the relating unblock discussion please see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive296#Standard Offer for User:B dash. The restrictions are as follow: #You must not edit at all except from this account. Note that this restriction goes further than your offer of stating any other accounts on your user page and following WP:SOCK#LEGIT strictly.

1. You must not make any GA nominations.
2. You may ask at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard for these conditions to be lifted, but not until one year has elapsed from the time of the block being removed. It is possible that further discussion may lead to a change in this restriction, but unless you are informed otherwise it remains so.

In the past year, I'm focus mainly on tropical cyclones-related articles, and doing some minor edits on certain topics. Moreover, I have written a few articles on tropical cyclones. Although they are not the best, this still showed my contribution to the encyclopedia. I have read through the guidelines of WP:GAN/I and WP:SOCK. I promise not to violate these guidelines anymore. In the future, I will still assuming good faith to others, especially to the new editors, and to communicate to the related userse when I'm facing a conflict. I hope the admins and other editors can consider this request. Best wishes to all. --B dash (talk) 08:25, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• (Non-administrator comment) Given that action would presumably have been taken if we'd spotted any editing from other accounts, I do not think either of these conditions has to be retained. One confusing point is that though he clearly has his stated userrights (and page mover usually involves a fair degree of vetting), the PERM archives point me towards the appropriate days' discussions but then doesn't include him, and I'd like to see the discussions. A personal look over his rollbacks suggest a little too much willingness on providing warnings for lack of citings on non-controversial topics, but that's more my usage vs a black mark for him. His editing work has certainly been significantly beneficial - I actually think his self-gradings of certain articles as starts is significantly underestimating his work. Nosebagbear (talk) 20:04, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Howdy, we've an unregistered editor who continuously pushes May 1, 2019 as Naruhito's accession date as Emperor of Japan, even though Akihito is abdicating on April 30, 2019. I've tried to explain to him, that the accession & era dates are different, but he refuses to listen. He's also using multiple IPs, see
User:123.150.182.179
User:123.150.182.180 &
User:123.150.182.177.
PS: It's quite frustrating. GoodDay (talk) 20:08, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For easier access, the range is 123.150.182.179/29 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Geolocates to Beijing, which strikes me as a bit unusual. Ian.thomson (talk) 20:32, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• No comment on IP behavior, but they are substantively correct. Abdication (current emperor's last day at work) is April 30. Accession (new emperor's first day at work) is May 1. New era starts on May 1. Enthronement is scheduled for October sometime. Plenty of English-language sources verify this. So, it might be more productive to just add sources, rather than getting frustrated with an IP editor who is probably very frustrated with you right now. Bakazaka (talk) 20:54, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So Akihito's reign will end at midnight, seeing as succession is automatic. Wish those source gave an 'exact' clock time. GoodDay (talk) 21:16, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Eh... This is a tradition that dates back to before everything had to be measured down to the nanosecond. Ian.thomson (talk) 21:42, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The abdication must be at midnight, then. Otherwise, the accession & era dates would be different. GoodDay (talk) 21:58, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You're not getting what I'm saying. Before mechanical clocks that precisely divided our days into 24 hours of 60 minutes of 60 equal and consistent seconds became widespread, everyone's perception of time was a lot more fluid. That's why Christianity teaches that Jesus was in the grave for "three" days (part of Friday, all of Saturday, and part of Sunday). This tradition dates back to a time when probably wasn't a big deal if the previous emperor left the throne (by whatever means) one day and the next emperor ascended to the throne the next, even though that technically meant (from our modern, precisionist perspective) that there were several hours where the guy ruling the country hadn't officially been given the job (not that that quibble would have stopped him).

When dealing with any tradition that's more than 400 years old, use days as the smallest unit of time (not hours, minutes, or seconds). Ian.thomson (talk) 22:49, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There's also the issue that royal succession in Japan doesn't necessarily follow European rules. Yes, Prince Charles will immediately legally be King Charles the instant that Queen Elizabeth dies but that's not a universal rule, as rather indicated by Japan separating the abdication and ascension days. Ian.thomson (talk) 22:52, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In this case, it does. Akihito became emperor upon the death of his father Hirohito, on January 7, 1989. His Era began on January 8, 1989 as it was his first 'full-date' as emperor. GoodDay (talk) 22:56, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Since the AN board isn't the place for content discussion, it's best we take this to 2019 Japanese imperial transition article. Meanwhile, still concerned about the multiple IPs being used by the same individual. GoodDay (talk) 23:02, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well the range looks to me like it could just be an office or something else with a small range of IPs assigned, or some other system where the IP change is not within the user's control so I don't see how it's a problem. It's annoying to deal with, and all the IPs should be treated the same individual with respect to blocks, edit warring especially 3RR, and any behavioural concerns, but the fact that it happened doesn't seem to be a socking or other problem. While it would be nice if the IP were to register, it's not something that can be required or even expected per core policies just because their IP changes. Nil Einne (talk) 08:03, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I wrote a long message but near the end of the message came across something suggesting a SPI will probably be better. Nil Einne (talk) 10:40, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've opened this SPI Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/123.124.233.241. It seems clear from what I've seen in the SPIs and related pages even if blocks happen this isn't going to stop the problem unfortunately. Nil Einne (talk) 12:17, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have blocked this IP. Looks like what they are doing is disruptive. Others thoughts? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:44, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This looks like the same trolling as Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1002#Disruptive ip. IP editors on 161.73.0.0/16 continued the same disruption (randomly reverting good-faith editors and warning them with {{uw-vandalism4im}}), so I did a short range block. This IP editor is from a very different location, but the behavior is similar. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 08:25, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Another one on Special:Contributions/180.197.45.225 in Japan. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 14:43, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Trizek (WMF) 15:08, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]