User talk:TagaSanPedroAko

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Again, welcome! Wyang (talk) 12:50, 27 July 2017 (UTC)Reply

Can you please use {{auto cat}} on categories instead of putting it all in manually? —CodeCat 18:41, 3 August 2017 (UTC)Reply

Please start quotation lines with #, so that they appear under the definition (diff). DTLHS (talk) 17:09, 6 August 2017 (UTC)Reply

Hi. I appreciate your contribution to Tagalog entries. However, please be careful of editing mistakes. Proper bordering, indenting, etc. I've looked at your edits and have seen quite a few mistakes. Please take note. Thanks. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 04:43, 9 August 2017 (UTC)Reply

Hi, again. Also please put slashes around your IPA pronunciation / / like so. Thanks! --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 14:25, 9 August 2017 (UTC)Reply

Hi, again. Also, please don't forget to put "----" above or below if there are other entries. Thanks! --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 15:04, 10 August 2017 (UTC)Reply

Stop adding useless categories

And what do you mean? Do you mean the topical categories, with the language code and topic? But why do you think of them as unnecessary?-TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 04:07, 26 August 2017 (UTC)Reply

You can put this at Module:User:TagaSanPedroAko/tl-IPA and use it as normal code. —suzukaze (t・c) 07:46, 13 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

This is outputting /nɡ/, but shouldn't it be /ŋɡ/ (or just /ŋ/, at least word-finally)? I am not too familiar with Tagalog phonology, but this seems wrong. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 07:28, 14 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

Wow, it looks like you fixed it literally less than a minute before I posted this. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 07:30, 14 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

@Metaknowledge If you or someone can fix that, do it. I already tried to fix it, but with no success. If the module needs revamping, please do it if you can. -TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 07:32, 14 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

@Metaknowledge Hopefully, it is fixed now. Need to deal with other digraphs, such as those which equals to IPA affricate consonants in the common urban accents.-TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 09:37, 14 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

Maybe @Wyang, suzukaze-c could help you — I'm pretty bad at Lua myself, so I try not to get involved. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 16:41, 14 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

I've tried to clean up the code a bit. I hope I've interpreted the module correctly... please check the output on {{tl-IPA}}. Also, the existing comparisons on the template should be incorporated into the module. Wyang (talk) 23:19, 14 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

Hi there. Could you add a Tagalog translation of (deprecated template usage) attractive please. I am about to meet a Filipina lady. SemperBlotto (talk) 18:22, 1 October 2017 (UTC)Reply

Hi! I changed the link to the word makalinow to Tagalog, as it's clearly not a Spanish word. Thanks --P5Nd2 (talk) 10:14, 6 October 2017 (UTC)Reply

You need to redo the Kapampangan section. DTLHS (talk) 20:46, 31 December 2017 (UTC)Reply

I assume this actually means microbe, just like its Spanish etymon. Can you confirm? —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 02:16, 8 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

I mostly know this to mean "bacteria" in general, as a local Tagalog speaker. "Microbe" may fit, but the most common definition I know is "bacteria" (especially on the phrase "masamang mikrobyo", which translates to bad bacteria).-TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 02:22, 8 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

Colloquial usage may be imprecise, but that doesn't mean our definitions should be unless there really was a semantic shift. That is, English speakers may use "bacteria" to refer to viruses because they aren't familiar with the actual difference, but that doesn't mean we should necessarily define it as such. @Mar vin kaiser, Chuck Entz (the former as a Tagalog native speaker, the latter as someone who might know a precedent). —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 02:26, 8 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

I would think of that as a semantic shift, when it was introduced to Tagalog. It may have derived from Spanish microbio, but it may come also from English microbe. Etymologies of Tagalog words that sound like they came from Spanish can be a problem, because they may likely be rather borrowed from English, and respelled to match a Spanish word (which is common on many Tagalog borrowings from English, especially those introduced during the American occupation of the Philippines).-TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 02:33, 8 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

Not impossible, but I wonder how published dictionaries define the word. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 03:34, 8 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

• I have given it a broader definition based on the Tagalog Wikipedia and uses I found online. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 17:41, 11 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

---

Please see Category:Pages with module errors for 127 entries that seem to be due to the module used by this template. Since you're the only one who has ever edited it, you need to figure out how to fix it, or to get help from someone who can. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 02:58, 22 October 2018 (UTC)Reply

What is a trigger verb? SemperBlotto (talk) 06:04, 29 November 2020 (UTC)Reply

Well, look up at w:Austronesian alignment, but "trigger" as in "2nd actor trigger verb" means the role of the subject of a sentence as it relates to the verb conjugation affixes. To further clarify, a "2nd actor trigger verb" would be a verb with a conjugation that closely relates with the agent as the subject (2nd just means it's the second conjugation form of the same "trigger"). --TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 06:24, 29 November 2020 (UTC)Reply

This is totally unnecessary. As you can see with this message, the user gets a notification whenever anyone edits their talk page. Even when you're not on their talk page, adding a ping to an existing message is useless anyway. It has to be separate from any previous message, and both the ping and the signature have to be added in the same edit. When I discover that a ping has failed because of an error, I fix the error and mention the user in the edit summary. If you do it right, the mention itself triggers the notification. Just remember that templates don't work in edit summaries, so you have to spell out the user name with ordinary wikitext, as in "[[User:TagaSanPedroAko]]" Chuck Entz (talk) 04:39, 3 December 2020 (UTC)Reply

Hey! I was wondering if you could do a favor. Can you make a Tagalog guide for editors? I'm not sure if there's one already, but so that we can get some uniformity on how we edit Tagalog entries. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 10:01, 10 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

It's already at WT:ATL. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 22:32, 10 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko: Oh lol, I totally forgot that this existed. I'm gonna have a read. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 13:57, 17 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko: Looking at the About Tagalog page, maybe we should also add a guide on orthography (on which orthography to use as the standard), and it looks like you haven't added the new inflection boxes you made on adjectives and verbs. Pretty cool what you did with the verbs. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 14:05, 17 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko: Oh nevermind, I saw your appendix on Tagalog spellings. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 14:09, 17 January 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Mar vin kaiser Continuing on, I added a summary about the new spelling guidelines in WT:ATL, focusing on the most notable changes. I would also like to note the we have been long preferring entries only spelled with the letters of the older Abakada, and I would say we might need to move the main entries of several English borrowings into their unaltered forms where it's most commonly used. Also, KWF's Diksiyonaryo.ph, which utilizes the 2014 spelling rules, already lists many unaltered (a.k.a unindigenized or unassimilated) English borrowings, especially related to modern life and technical fields, though I look into making entries on such words only where there is no similar Spanish-derived synonym and would generally focus on those used every day. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 07:46, 9 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko: Thanks for this. To be honest, for me, considering that the current KWF has made a small shift in changing these spelling rules, i.e. the revert back to Pilipinas instead of Filipinas, since Almario left KWF (since the spelling changes were his policy), and considering the online KWF Diksiyonaryo (based on UP's Diksiyonaryo Filipino, or maybe it's the same dictionary) throws English words into Filipino without distinction (such as adding English function words and most super common English words into a Filipino dictionary) and adding super many synonyms of one object from other Philippine languages (like 10 words just for dog in one language?, 9 of it unused in Filipino itself), I'm reluctant to use these spelling rule changes done by KWF, except for those already existing in previous dictionaries (like aksiyon or aksyon, and bago-bago instead of bagu-bago). I hope you understand. Because if we continue to follow the KWF Diksiyonaryo exactly, we have to conclude that the following words are in Tagalog: dog, cat, with, she, he, all, year, your, other, because, me, who, what, whatever, why, and so many more English words that I think most agree shouldn't be Tagalog or Filipino. For me, I'll continue to follow norms before the 2014 change (unless it existed already before), until they fix those problems. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 08:02, 9 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Mar vin kaiser Just to note, I'll be selective in which English borrowings goes in. Also, we abound in what I can say to be actually pseudo-Anglicisms (e.g. sideline). -TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 08:07, 9 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko: For me, I have a very clear rule on which words of English origin are spelled with Abakada. If they're found in the Tagalog/Pilipino dictionaries in those spellings (Leo English, Vicassan's, Panganiban), I'll follow that spelling. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 08:11, 9 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Mar vin kaiser I'll be working in a list of English borrowings we haven't listed yet. This includes both "indigenized"/"assimilated" forms (e.g. abstrak, adbertisment, adres, akwaryum, alerdyik, beybi, groseri) and unaltered ones (advertising, Africa, album, bag, basket, CD, download, jam, jar, marker, mask, online, poster). To me, if an English word has a similar-sounding Spanish equivalent that can borrowed in place of it, I would go for the Spanish instead, though I can say the naturalized English borrowing can be more prevalent than the Spanish and both can be listed (e.g. markador and marker, mask and maskara) . TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 08:39, 9 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Mar vin kaiser Continuing on, I would say KWF's Diksiyonaryo is much like the Indonesian national dictionary. I already placed notes about it on WT:ATL that it also lists English and words in other Philippine languages. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 08:47, 9 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko: Based on what you said, I think you're thinking about this from the perspective of a translator, and not a lexicographer, because for translators, of course translators need to consider which Tagalog word should be used to translate, let's say an English word or concept. But as lexicographers, which what we technically are in Wiktionary, we consider "word inclusion" as defined by Wiktionary's criteria for inclusion. So we shouldn't be talking about whether to use the "English" one or the "Spanish one", our question should be, which of them are actual Tagalog words? And if they are Tagalog words, then they should be a Tagalog entry for it in Wiktionary. Similar to how Oxford Dictionary lexicographers concluded that "kilig" can be considered an English word, and included it in their dictionary. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 09:09, 9 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Mar vin kaiser Both the English (whether unaltered or altered) or Spanish loan can be considered Tagalog by attestation, or just one of them, but it's hard to tell, considering today's Tagalog tend to be mixed with Tagalog. In the case of marker, I can consider it a Tagalog word by its everyday usage; markador can still be, even if it isn't as common as "marker", as long it's attested. I can say the same for mask (English derivation) and maskara (Spanish derivation). TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 09:17, 9 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko: Yes, I agree, because modern Tagalog tends to be mainly Taglish, it's hard to tell which one can be considered a Tagalog word. That's why I concentrate on words that appear in published dictionaries (except for the KWF dictionary and UP dictionary, which is just the same dictionary). Currently, I only use the 3 dictionaries I mentioned as references for word attestation, except for new slang words, which aren't in those dictionaries. For slang words, I add them if I know they're really Tagalog, as in no doubt. If I'm unsure, I don't add them. For English words, as in legit English words in Tagalog speech, I tend to play safe and not add them, since a person searching for a word in Wiktionary won't be searching for those words under Tagalog lol. If they have a special Philippine meaning, they're placed in the English entry and labelled as "Philippine", for Philippine English. I think we better just concentrate on what we can all agree as Tagalog words, and also dialectal Tagalog words not found in dictionaries, since most of it isn't in Wiktionary yet. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 09:30, 9 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Mar vin kaiser: But we have major non-English languages that has considered unaltered English borrowings legit, e.g. French, German, Italian. In regard to English terms with special definitions in the Philippines, it's hard to prove any attestation except use in Taglish; I can consider some of those as mere pseudo-anglicisms than true English such as "sideline" (when defined as part-time job or informal job). I still support having unaltered English borrowings being incorporated here. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 09:44, 9 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko: I understand what you mean, yeah, but there's a big difference, as you pointed out, because of Taglish. English terms with local meanings, however, are often considered within Philippine English. For me, my personal policy is to allocate these definitions in the English entry under "Philippine" (as they're already there anyway), and be super selective as to English borrowings that are under Tagalog. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 03:51, 10 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Seems like Old Tagalog is not set as an ancestor of Tagalog. Also tl-old looks weird, we may have a better naming for the code… ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 00:27, 13 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

It looks like Module:tl-translit is have trouble with "ᜎᜓᜐᜓᜅ᜔". Chuck Entz (talk) 22:41, 21 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Chuck Entz I recently created the module, and I’m trying to repair it when I begin to test it, but I don't know what's wrong (I created it from the mobile version). I based the code on those used to transliterate Sanskrit Devanagari. Tried to fix it, but I can't find a solution. Someone with experience in transliteration modules might help. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 23:08, 21 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Chuck Entz Issue now fixed. It's not doable from mobile, but from desktop (the diacritics need to combine, which doesn't happen in mobile). TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 04:21, 23 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko can you implement hypens like from ᜉᜄ᜔ᜁᜊᜒᜄ᜔ (pag-ibig) to pag-ibig instead of pagibig Houflings (talk) 09:54, 23 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko see

look at paa, pain and laing Houflings (talk) 11:47, 23 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

1. 1 and #4 works, but for the others, it's all wrong. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 17:53, 23 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hey, I was wondering if you could help me. I'm not that good with making templates and the coding here in Wiktionary. For the verbs in Bikol Central, could you make it such that we can put the complete, progressive, and contemplative forms beside the main word like in umawit? I tried to improvise here like in magsapatos, but it would be great if it was automatic. Thanks. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 04:13, 30 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hey, I see you editing Cebuano entries. I'm not a fluent Cebuano speaker, but the Cebuano pronunciation template seems off. Although I see the phoneme /ɛ/ in Wikipedia under Cebuano, I'm not sure if they actually say it like that, it's more like an /e/. Cebuano vowels sound more flat, which is where the stereotypical Cebuano comes from. Any thoughts? --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 10:00, 29 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

I’m not a native speaker either (can speak and understand a few, and practicing), but regarding what sound E in most actually represents, I'll agree. Bisaya is somewhat spoken in a staccato-like pattern (somehow like Spanish), and yes, the E is flatter that in Tagalog. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 10:07, 29 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko How did you come up with the stress in the pronunciations? A lot of the closed penultimates need fixing. 𝄽 ysrael214 (talk) 15:37, 14 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

So, Cebuano closed penultimate should be generally stressed? and default stress is final (like we have for Kapampangan)? Sources beside Dempwolff's to support this? I think Cebuano stress placement is like in Tagalog: generally in penult. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 19:24, 14 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko Yes generally in penult, Kapampangan has a different rule so ignore that. But I think you're reading the Cebuano terms like a Tagalog when having a closed penultimate syllable. Just a while ago, I corrected udtó to údto, kantá to kánta, lungsód to lúngsod, Paskó to Pásko, kumustá -> kumústa. Although place names may not apply to this.

In Tagalog, especially in older loans, most closed penultimate syllables tend to have ultimate stress ex. ángel -> anghél, líbro -> libró, comoesta -> kumustá. In Cebuano, closed penultimate syllables become penultimate stress. 𝄽 ysrael214 (talk) 19:31, 14 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko And in binisaya.com the circumfix doesn't mean stress and glottal stop, just glottal stop. So I corrected bangkâ to bangkà as well. The only time an open syllable becomes penultimate (in binisaya.com transcription which followed Wolff) is that if the penultimate is marked like tínâ. I guess like Kapampangan but not quite. 𝄽 ysrael214 (talk) 19:34, 14 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko I just listen to YouTube videos first and foremost. Mainly Cebuano bible. 𝄽 ysrael214 (talk) 19:36, 14 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko I think I changed a huge chunk of them that has pronunciation modules. Please check what words changed thanks. 𝄽 ysrael214 (talk) 20:14, 14 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Please fix the mess you've caused with Module:hil-headword that is flooding CAT:E with entries like dahog that display Lua error in Module:hil-headword at line 45: The parameter "and" is not used by this template. — SURJECTION ^{/ T / C / L /} 10:47, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Surjection: It's due to the headword templates now powered by the module. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 10:56, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Yes, and you did that change. Either fix the entries or fix the module. If you don't have the resources to do either, ask for help. — SURJECTION ^{/ T / C / L /} 10:59, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko I see you're editing Hiligaynon entries, and I was thinking that perhaps the orthography needs to be standardized. Because for example, in dictionaries I see, the word for six is "anum", but in the Hiligaynon Bible it's "anom". Same issue with Cebuano. Mar vin kaiser (talk) 09:25, 10 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Mar vin kaiser: Cebuano already has its standard spelling, based on the spelling by Bisaya magazine, and is explained at Appendix:Cebuano spellings. Most entries already follow standard spelling, but there's still lot of duplication that need to be addressed (those by good ole Carl). For Hiligaynon, there's little of a way of a standard, but such spellings looks like being deliberate to distance it from its close relative Cebuano in addition to be a carry-over from Spanish-based spelling. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 09:30, 10 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

I'm pretty sure Wiktionary doesn't have a Draft namespace...you should either simply create the page in the Appendix namespace, or keep it as a subpage of your user page until you feel it's ready. Acolyte of Ice (talk) 12:17, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

It's largely incomplete, but yes, I can have it moved to main or as a subpage of mine. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 19:09, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply

Frankly, I find Tagalog /ˈpalai/ and Pangasinan /paˈɡɨi/ weird. It's phonemic /j/, otherwise you completely have to redefine the phonology of Tagalog and Pangisanan etc., from syllabification and stress placement to simple things like suffixation: how many rules do you need to get /bantaˈjan/ from /banˈtai/ + /-an/? Also Pangasinan /ˈkjɨu/, which is generally considered phonemic /kiˈɨw/ (or /kiˈjɨw/ in a hiatus free analysis). On the phonetic level, I'm fine with either [ˈpalaj] or [ˈpalaɪ̯] (although I'd love to see length here, even if it is predictable). Austronesier (talk) 14:22, 24 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Austronesier:I don't see something wrong with that; <a+y>, <a+w>, etc. can either be a diphthong or a vowel plus semivowel, but if you should account for some loanwords that will have the diphthong surrounded by another consonant in a closed syllable (e.g. armalayt, plais), the existing handling should be kept. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 15:38, 24 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Austronesier: In regard to kiëw, the phonemic IPA /ˈkjɨu/ should be fine. It's actually pronounced as a single syllable, and Pangasinan spelling is largely based on Spanish rules. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 15:54, 24 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

I don't think we have to turn conventional phonology upside down just to account for plais. A final cluster (/plajs/ [plaɪ̯s]) would also do, as in /isport/.

If kiëw is pronounced monosyllabic, it should all the more not have a vowel sequence 《ɨu》 which turns it disyllabic. And the initial part should be handled as in Tagalog /tiˈan/ [ˈt͡ʃan], thus something like /kiˈɨw/ [ˈkjɨṷ]. (Would you transcribe duëg as /ˈdwɨg/?) –Austronesier (talk) 16:24, 24 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Austronesier: I would have little time to argue over why kiëw should be two syllables, but treat duëg as one. Again, in Pangasinan spelling (which is much based on Spanish), a consonant followed by a I or U, and then a vowel doesn't break up into two syllables; the I and U being the glides /j/ and /w/ respectively. The same can be said of Ilocano, which also follows a similar Spanish-based orthography; kenkuana is actually transcribed into phonemes as /kenˈkwana/. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 16:35, 24 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

It's [kenˈkwana] in brackets. There is no question how these words are pronounced in normal speech and transcribed in phonetic brackets. The problem lies with the highly ideosyncratic phonemic analysis. A phonemic transcription has nothing to do with spelling, but with our understanding of the structure of the sound system. Languages like Tagalog, Pangasinan, Ilokano have a basic (C)V((C)C)V(C) root structure (that can be expanded by (C)V(C)- to the left). This structure includes the interpretation of [VV̭] as /VC/ (C=glide), and [CyV]/[CwV] as /CVˈV/. In that way, we can analyze e.g. Ilocano [dyaɪ̯] within the framework of the basic syllable structure as /diaj/, instead of /dyai/ which would create a structural island (at least in native words) with an intial CC-cluster and a monosyllabic vowel sequence. Phonemic transcription is an abstraction, but it comes to surface in morphological rules such as affixation (where final [V̭] behaves like /C/) or reduplication (where [Cw] and [Cy] behave like /Cu/ and /Ci/).

This phonemic is the approach that the great majority of Philippinists follow (UP, DLSU, SIL, Zorc, Reid). –Austronesier (talk) 17:48, 24 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

@Austronesier: Well, I'll agree now, but this means a major rewrite of the existing modules, which will add further complexity. I'm busy currently with a sandbox version of the Tagalog IPA template. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 17:53, 24 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Sorry for having been so makulet about it :) But I can see it, modules are a giant task. I'll go to Mar vin Kaiser's talk page for more comments. –Austronesier (talk) 14:07, 25 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

Whenever you work with modules, you should always check CAT:E for a while afterwards, and fix any module errors that result. Even if they're due to data entry errors that aren't your fault, module errors don't show up on the watchlists of those responsible- so you're the one who has to deal with them. The three actual entries there are the result of your module changes. Chuck Entz (talk) 16:54, 26 August 2022 (UTC)Reply

[1] Austronesier (talk) 21:10, 14 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

You have created the page denggoyin way back 2017. Mar vin Kaiser created the root word entry denggoy in 2021. I would like to know what is the source of this word? Every other searches I see are vague and are of questionable sources. Perhaps you could clarify the reference for this. Thank you --Likhasik (talk) 05:35, 17 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

How would a Proto-Bisayan sentence look like compared to its modern descendants (Cebuano, Hiligaynon, Waray, etc.)? Also, how would a Proto-Central Philippine (or any higher-order proto-language) sentence look like compared to modern Bikol, Tagalog, and with Proto-Bisayan itself? Unlike Indo-European, there has never been an effort to reconstruct whole sentences in the Austronesian languages (aside from some examples in Proto-Oceanic). Kwékwlos (talk) 11:38, 24 September 2022 (UTC)Reply

What do you think of the most recent addition to the entry panitikan? Apisite (talk) 07:19, 28 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for your major contribution.

There several things about Indonesian pronunciation which maybe help the development. In standard pronunciation: (1) letter h always pronounced, no matter position. Example gajah /gajah/. (2) CauC pronounced as CawuC. Example: laut /lawut/; maut /mawut/―Rex Aurōrum^{｢Disputātiō｣} 18:31, 14 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

Just restored the final H in the phonetic transcription.

By the way, it's enough to just use /a.u/ instead of forcing a /w/ before the /u/. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 19:42, 14 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

Maybe Labialization? lawut /laʷut/. Can you add final-obstruent devoicing? example: khidmat /xɪtmat/ ―Rex Aurōrum^{｢Disputātiō｣} 09:04, 15 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

Traditionally glottal stop written as ' (apostrophe). Idk if it's possible to be applied. In Indonesian, final k neutrally pronounced as /k/. ―Rex Aurōrum^{｢Disputātiō｣} 09:57, 24 February 2023 (UTC)Reply

This entry has a module error that seems to be a result of your recent edits to Module:ceb-pron. You may not have noticed it because there have been a lot of unrelated errors lately in CAT:E. Chuck Entz (talk) 23:46, 15 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

I forgot to mention kwadrilyon and kwintilyon, which are due to your edits to Module:number list/data/ceb. Chuck Entz (talk) 23:49, 15 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Chuck Entz: Fixed it right away. Thanks for the heads-up. It's due to a major rewrite to support multiword expressions.-TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 23:50, 15 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

For the Cebuano numeral data, it's due to changes to make standard spellings (as explained in Appendix:Cebuano spellings) the main entry to link to. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 00:55, 16 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for fixing bawon and kwadrilyon, but kwintilyon is still broken. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:43, 16 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

kwintilyon is still broken. — Fenakhay ^{(حيطي · مساهماتي)} 08:56, 20 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

I wonder, where have you gotten the Jawi spellings of Maguindanao terms?

Anyway, what would be in the guideline Wiktionary:About Maguindanao? -- Apisite (talk) 03:59, 31 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

On Maguindanao Jawi, it's mostly guesswork, but basing it on how Malay in Jawi is somehow spelled. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 04:08, 31 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

Another question: when would you like to make Swadesh modules for Maguindanao, Maranao and maybe Iranun? --Apisite (talk) 10:25, 31 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

Yes. For Maranao, there's already one: Appendix:Maranao Swadesh list. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 17:01, 31 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

I made a list of words for Tagalog where the hyphenation information doesn't match the word from the entry. This can be due to typos, copy&paste errors, etc. Do you have time to look at this for Tagalog (and maybe Cebuano) or where should I post this? (BTW, I sent you an email via the site about a week ago. Did you receive it?) Links: Tagalog and Cebuano -- tbm (talk) 05:55, 2 March 2023 (UTC)Reply

You really do need to fix the templates that are in CAT:E. You would wrap things that don't need to be displayed on the template page in <includeonly></includeonly> and wrap things to show only on the template page in <noinclude></noinclude>. At one extreme would be wrapping all the template code that's not already noinclude in includeonly or <onlyinclude></onlyinclude>. At the other extreme would be wrapping each parameter in its own includeonlys accompanied by sample values for display on the template page wrapped in noincludes, as in <includonly>{{{1|}}}</includeonly><noinclude>h</noinclude>. Chuck Entz (talk) 17:54, 11 March 2023 (UTC)Reply

I had hoped these would all be fixed by now. I've dealt with a couple of the remaining sandbox ones using <onlyinclude></onlyinclude>, but {{tl-IPA/sandbox}} has a bug in the module itself. Please fix it or get help from someone who can. I don't know Lua well enough to fix it myself- aside from commenting things out or deleting modules, which I may end up doing if this isn't taken care of soon... Chuck Entz (talk) 17:23, 27 March 2023 (UTC)Reply

Today I turned a bare quote of this page into template (something AutoDooz failed to do), could you translate the text into English whenever you can? Rodrigo5260 (talk) 02:10, 27 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko Rodrigo5260 (talk) 03:00, 30 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

@Rodrigo5260 I'm busy right now, but can look into that. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 03:02, 30 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

ok, I'm not pressuring you to do it now. Rodrigo5260 (talk) 03:03, 30 July 2023 (UTC)Reply

I'm a foreigner currently based in Cebu City (but I don't speak any local languages). I'm wondering if there's some way I can help towards improving Cebuano on Wiktionary.

1) I recorded 18,000 audio pronunciations for Swahili with a Kenyan friend. I'd like to do the same for Cebuano (and/or other local languages), but the problem is that Wiktionary doesn't have the stress markers and I think it doesn't make sense to do recordings without that. (Then again, I'm not sure how many words there are that differ depending on the stress) Any idea what to do about that?

2) Maybe I should organize a workshop to get local editors involved. (Then again, I feel weird organizing a workshop since I don't even speak Cebuano!) But maybe I can find other Wikipedia editors locally and get them involved in Wiktionary. I recently saw another group somewhere in the Philippines that's very active and maybe we could invite them. (I know WMF has grants for workshops, etc.) Do you know any Cebuano editors based in Cebu I could work with? tbm (talk) 04:35, 8 September 2023 (UTC)Reply

裡 or 裏 is generally not used for Chinese transliteration. Please stop creating such entries as 通貝裡 etc. I have to proposed to RFD these entries one by one. Kethyga (talk) 15:24, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

sorry about that. It's due to transliterations using 里 were being tagged as simplified, especially if created from the new entry template. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 20:20, 20 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

I looked over these ([2]) and found some things that concern me.

Do you have any sources for the various dialectal pronunciations? Concatenating readings from each entry is discouraged.

I also thought that some of the "via X" statements were highly dubious, for example at 基秦拿 (using "qi" is standard Mandarin transcription for "ki" out of pure necessity), and I'd recommend thinking more about the timeframe involved: for example, I feel comfortable marking various late Qing American placenames as being from Cantonese or Taishanese due to what we know about the populations that coined the transcriptions; on the other hand, 麥金利 doesn't really have those characteristics. —Fish bowl (talk) 06:57, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

I know a little Mandarin, but for dialect pronunciation, it's mostly approximation (looking from the dialectal reading of each character). I can be sure some of the Chinese name transcriptions I created entries of ultimately came via dialect, esp. if they are not using characters used in standard transcription or have translated components (not necessarily all). TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 07:16, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

Is 基秦拿 of Mandarin or Min Nan origin? We can guess and speculate wildly, but ultimately that would be a fact-based, historical question with answers. I would speculate that this word originated in the 19th or 20th centuries. When exactly did 基秦拿 arise, who made it up or started using it, how did they make it- with which language, etc. I don't know how to know the answer to these specific questions really, because I haven't done any work in this area. Compare to Kulangsu, where there was speculation that an English language loan word was from Min Nan. I did notice that the Hong Kong/Macau/Taiwan version of the person this town is named after is "第一代基秦拿伯爵赫伯特·基秦拿" and the Mainland PRC version is "第一代基奇纳伯爵赫伯特·基奇纳". --Geographyinitiative (talk) 07:19, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

As with that transcription of Kelowna (基秦拿), that smells of Cantonese. Canada's Chinese population are historically mostly Cantonese-speaking. Even Canada's translation into Chinese (in whatever dialect) came from a Cantonese transcription of the name. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 07:25, 6 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

I would echo what Fish bowl has said. I don't think it's wise to infer readings from individual characters; many times placenames have special readings in certain varieties. I've also noticed that you've been putting things in |alt= in {{zh-forms}} that should be better treated as synonyms. I would reserve |alt= for variants that are only orthographically different. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 02:04, 7 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

[3]. —Fish bowl (talk) 01:43, 14 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko On verbal nouns, should it really be included on the headword? Should we use the base, pagnakaw or the habitual one, pagnanakaw? I'm inclined to not use verbal nouns there idk. Ysrael214 (talk) 07:27, 11 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Ysrael214: Maybe useful if there is just one known verbal noun form, but if there is more that one, can deal with that in related terms instead. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 07:31, 11 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

All Romance languages ​​must have “from” in their etymology at the beginning. Stríðsdrengur (talk) 00:15, 3 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

I am going to change all the Philippine *-IPA templates to not auto-add bullets. The original reason for doing this in {{es-IPA}} was because it generates multiple lines of pronunciations for different accents, but this doesn't apply to any of the Philippine IPA templates. Benwing2 (talk) 04:40, 23 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Likewise for {{ms-IPA}}, {{id-IPA}}. Benwing2 (talk) 04:45, 23 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2 That's completely OK for me, except perhaps for {{ms-IPA}}, which I think needs to have an upgrade to automatically handle the three different Standard Malay accents (Johor, Northern Peninsula, Bahasa Baku) automatically, plus the same automatic syllabification and rhyme (as {{ms-pr}}). Well, I'm going on an overhaul of the Indonesian template to have the same functionality as Tagalog but it's still halfway there. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 05:29, 23 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

OK, sounds good. I'll leave the auto-bullets in {{ms-IPA}} for now. Benwing2 (talk) 05:39, 23 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

One more thing, I notice when going through {{bcl-IPA}} that nearly every term with h in it has two pronunciations manually listed, one as such and the other where the h has been replaced by 7 (glottal stop) and labeled "h-dropping". This should definitely be done automatically. Is the h dropping rule completely regular? It seems regular except that it some words beginning with an h, the "h-dropped" version drops the h without replacing it with 7, e.g. hilang has ilang as the h-dropped version, but hilo has 7ilo as the h-dropped version. Is this maybe a mistake, where 7ilang would be correct, or is there really an unpredictable difference there? Benwing2 (talk) 07:16, 23 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Also, some Spanish-based terms with h have the same h vs. 7 pronunciations but label the former as spelling based and the latter as Spanish based. Examples: alkohol, harina, hasta, behikulo. Should we keep these labels or just use the h-dropping label? Benwing2 (talk) 07:22, 23 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2 Late reply, but I think the pronunciation of H in Bikol is rather unpredictable. Needs research, but H-dropping in Bikol Central seems to be an influence of Rinconada (Iriga Bicolano).

Going on, I just finished working on the extended version of the [[Module:id-pron

Indonesian pronunciation module]]. Currently in sandbox, still needs some stabilization (the syllabification part still doesn't work, some cleanup needed, otherwise fine). Already created {{id-pr}}, with it connected to the sandbox module until the new version is rolled out. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 00:49, 1 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

OK thanks, let me know if you need any help with {{id-pr}}. Benwing2 (talk) 02:25, 1 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Would like to see your help with developing a similar module for Malay, but that's something more complicated. While generating accent-specific pronunciation may be the easier part, the problem now is with syllabification, which differs between Malaysia and Brunei, and Singapore and Indonesia. There should be also an option to suppress certain pronunciations such as with Indonesian Malay-only terms.

As for the Indonesian module, primary to-do now there is smarter stress placement in words with /ə/ and /ɨ/. The module currently cannot place the stress correctly in words like halte and jenderal (would have to use a vowel with macron on syllable that is actually stressed). TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 02:36, 1 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Is the stress unpredictable in those instances? If so you should add the ability to override the stress in those particular cases, e.g. by putting an acute accent over the stressed syllable in respelling. Benwing2 (talk) 02:47, 1 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2 In words with /ə/ or /ɨ/, the stress generally moves to the left or right, depending on where syllables is/are it/those located. If it is is on ultimate, stress moves on the left. If it is on penultimate, stress moves to the ultimate (if 2 syllables) or prepenultimate (if 3 or more syllables, unless the prepenultimate has schwa, where the stress is on final). The stress placement rules on Indonesian (as well as Malay) is at w:Malay phonology. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 02:58, 1 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

OK it sounds like the stress rule is predictable, but just complex? Benwing2 (talk) 03:30, 1 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2 Yes. Well, the existing Indonesian IPA template can handle the likes of keenam (with 2 schwas) correctly, but not the likes of jenderal (also 2 schwas). TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 03:32, 1 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2 I just updated the stress rules so to account for different schwa positions. Sandbox module seems good to go. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 06:06, 1 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Cool! Benwing2 (talk) 06:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thank you!

Already migrating instances of {{id-IPA}} to {{id-pr}}. Rest can be done by bot, but there are many Indonesian entries where the IPA is added manually instead of using {{id-IPA}}.

For the Malay, will follow on that, but the need to accommodate multiple standard accents (Johor-Selangor, Northern Peninsula, Bahasa Baku/Singaporean/Malaysian) is the hard part. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 06:50, 1 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

@TagaSanPedroAko Do you need bot help migrating {{id-IPA}}? Benwing2 (talk) 22:40, 4 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Benwing2 of course. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 15:32, 5 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

{{Swadesh list auto}} requires a Module:Swadesh/data/ submodule for the language code. Without that, it just displays a module error. Don't create any pages with it until you've already created the data submodule. It doesn't have to be complete, but it has to have the framework. See the other submodules to give you an idea: Special:PrefixIndex/Module:Swadesh/data/. Chuck Entz (talk) 18:35, 24 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hi, I see you edited {{id-IPA}} recently. I just wanted to let you know that currently it returns this error message: "Parameter "a" is not used by this template." after entering |a=letter name . I hope you can fix it.

Also, it would be good if you could somehow simplify the script or maybe bypass it somehow here as a single exception, because currently there are 720 red error messages on page a, saying "The time allocated for running scripts has expired." These pages are rather difficult to handle, I know… Thank you! Adam78 (talk) 15:59, 2 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Adam78 That issue is rather due to a recent major change to module:id-pron that automated the addition of rhyme and syllabification (for use by {{id-pr}}), and also changed the handling of parameters such as {{{a}}} (or accent), which now should be inside <> placed after a respelling.

As for {{id-IPA}}, it will be slowly be replaced by {{id-pr}} (similar goes with the Tagalog {{tl-IPA}}, which has been largely replaced with {{tl-pr}}). That should be a bot job, but I'm slowly transitioning most existing entries using the former to use the latter. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 20:37, 2 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

There are 4 entries in CAT:E since you made your changes. Please fix them. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 22:22, 2 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Chuck Entz Just fixed them, also transitioned the entries to use {{id-pr}}. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 22:26, 2 September 2024 (UTC)Reply