Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Serdzong Monastery

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎ with a move, if needed, per transliteration concerns raised by editors. Star Mississippi 00:54, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Serdzong Monastery

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I can't find any results about the details of this monastery or its location in search results or on Google Maps but I did find a few tour operators that mention Serdzong Monastery as a tour destination. Might be a misspelling but the lack of results seem to indicate that, even if it does exist, it's not sufficiently notable for a standalone article. Kazamzam (talk) 02:15, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Buddhism and China. Kazamzam (talk) 02:15, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I think this may be Saizong Monastery (赛宗寺) in Xinghai County, though I'm struggling to find sources that use the spelling "Serdzong". There are lots of Chinese-language sources online about Saizong Monastery (here are a few: [1][2][3][4][5]), so if that's the correct topic I think it meets GNG. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 02:43, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Mx. Granger - I agree that this may be the Saizong Monastery (phonetically in Tibetan that would be Saetsong, which isn't that far off), but given that there is so little information about the Serdzong monastery on this article it's difficult to confirm if they're the same topic or just two monasteries with similar names in Qinghai. If we can determine that this is the Saizong Monastery, we can add a redirect and a note for the Chinese name. What do you think? Thanks for finding all these. Kazamzam (talk) 03:51, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sure. If the article is kept, it should of course use whatever name is most common in English-language sources, with redirects for alternative names. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 01:27, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 04:09, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. There's no reason to keep a tiny stub on a monastery we're not even sure exists for a spelling no one uses. If someone finds useful sources and wants to write about 赛宗寺, they don't need the page history here (there is effectively none) and won't benefit from this redirect (who would use it?). -- asilvering (talk) 01:52, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 03:25, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
1. The sources found by Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) about Saizong Monastery (Chinese: 赛宗寺) contribute to notability. Saizong monastery is the same monastery as Serdzong monastery, which is the same monastery as the Drakar Treldzong Thösamling monastery.
  Kanamaru 2000, p. 204 verifies that the Serdzong monastery is called the "Treldzong Gompa" and is in Drakar Treldzong. The source notes that "The monastery itself belongs to the Gelukpa order".
  Gruschke 2001, pp. 91, 274 notes that "Saizong Si" is the Chinese name of the Drakar Treldzong Thösamling monastery. The source notes that the Thösamling Monastery of Drakar Treldzong belongs to the Gelugpa order.
2. Kanamaru, Atsushi (2000). Mapping the Tibetan World. Reno, Nevada: Kotan Publishing. pp. 203–204. ISBN 0-9701716-09. Retrieved 2024-01-11 – via Internet Archive.
  The book notes: "Places to See: Treldzong Gompa (Serdzong). The monastery is about 30km to the west, north-west of Xinghai, and at 3,600m it is far from other human habitation. Behind the site there are rocky peaks, and the surrounding area is called Drakar Treldzong, or 'Monkey Fort made of White Rocks.' This is one of the most sacred places in the Amdo region, and there are many other famous sites connected with Guru Rinpoche (Padmasambhava) and Tsongkhapa in the area. The monastery itself belongs to the Gelukpa order, but the area is well-known as a place for trainee monks from the Nyingmapa order to practice asceticism. At Xinghai there are some 4-wheel-drive cars available, and to charter one costs about Y200 for a round trip to the monastery. Sharing the cost of the car is advisable; otherwise, the cost is rather prohibitive, as it is only 2 hours to the gompa. The landscape on the way is somewhat reminiscent of the Grand Canyon.
3. Gruschke, Andreas (2001). The Cultural Monuments of Tibet's Outer Provinces. Bangkok: White Lotus Press. pp. 91–92, 181, 258, 274. ISBN 9-789747-534597. Retrieved 2024-01-11 – via Internet Archive.
  The book notes on page 91: "Their most important monastic centre is located at Thösamling Monastery of Drakar Treldzong. Like most of the region's lamaseries it is a late foundation (18th to 20th century), grown in size due to its location within one of the most important sacred sites of Amdo: Drakar Treldzong, the White Crag Monkey Fort, which is one of Amdo's four main power-places. ... Drakar Treldzong Thösamling: After a dozen kilometres the track becomes difficult, as it descends into the Tohoba Canyon. Some 30 km on the Gelugpa monastery Thösam Yönten Dargyling of Drakar Treldzong (brag dkar sprel rdzong thos bsam yon tan dar rgyas gling) is reached (Chin. Saizong Si)."
  The book further notes: "This large monastery has a rather short history. It was founded in 1923 by Rongwo Gönchen's 3rd Arutsang Lama (1888-1959) to fulfil his predecessor's last wish. At the beginning there was just a lama residence and several monks' quarters, but in 1927 a large extension was possible as the lama gained the support of local chiefs and Ngolok tribes, as well as chiefs from Kokonor, Qilian Mountains and other areas; then an assembly hall and a Manjushri Temple were built. In the early 1950s a larger dukhang with 100 pillars was constructed, as well as a gönkhang and a Maitreya Temple. Thus, within a period of only several decades, Thösamling Monastery developed into the largest lamasery in south Kokonor district and a Buddhist cultural centre for the entire region. By 1958, 18 stupas and 15 residential buildings were added and 28 tulkus were among the 520 to 620 monks. Reconstruction works began in 1981 and brought the monastery back to its former extensive size, with the large assembly hall as the core of the complex."
  The book further notes: "Thösamling Monastery in Drakar Treldzong is a spiritual as well as a ritual centre. The exoteric college established in 1929 is well-known and often visited by learned lamas from Drepung, Labrang, Kumbum, Rongwo and other famous lamaseries. They add to the local students' progress, while Thösamling offers various ritual activities for pilgrims and Buddhist believers of nearly the entire Amdo area."
  The book has a "panoramic view of the monastery" Drakar Treldzong Thösamling on page 181.
  The book notes on page 258: "Drakar Treldzong Thösamling, or Thösam Yönten Dargyeling (brag dkar sprel rdzong thos bsam yon tan dar rgyas gling), monastery in central Amdo (Xinghai county of Qinghai) 91f, 102, 181f"
  The book notes on page 274: "Saizong Si, Chin. name of → Drakar Treldzong Thösamling".
4. Buckley, Michael (2002). Tibet: The Bradt Travel Guide. Bucks: Bradt Travel Guides. p. 235. ISBN 1-84162-061-0. Retrieved 2024-01-11 – via Internet Archive.
  The book notes: "Further south, the road crosses a mountain range to enter the more Tibetan grasslands in the county of Shinghai. This small county town is 17km off the main road, and a road continues across the Yellow River to link up with Tongte. Some 15km south of town, over a small river, is the remarkably attractive monastery of Drakar Treldzong, or White Rock Monkey Fortress Temple. There is a half-day kora around its craggy peaks and several retreat caves in the interior, some of which are associated with Guru Rinpoche and the important Amdo scholar Shabkar. A few nuns and long-haired Nyingma lamas are usually in attendance at the caves; the monastery itself houses about 400 Geluk monks."
5. Dowman, Keith (1997). The Sacred Life of Tibet. San Francisco: Thorsons. p. 293. ISBN 0-7225-3375-6. Retrieved 2024-01-11 – via Internet Archive.
  The book notes: "Drakar Treldzong (Brag dkar sprel rdzong), in Tsigorthang county, directly to the north of Machen county, south of the county town Xinghai Xian. White Rock Monkey Citadel, a mountain power place, is a fabled power place of Guru Rimpoche and one of Amdo's best known pilgrimage destinations. The five-hour khorra circuit around the peak includes the Great Guru's meditation cave and his Dorje Phuklam cave that has a skylight formed by the passage of his dorje; his consort Yeshe Tsogyel's hermitage, called the Khandro Tsokhang, the Assembly Hall of the Sky Dancers; a renowned sky-burial site; a bardo thang passage to crawl through; several self-manifest images with magical properties; sites relating to Je Tsongkhapa's stay in the area; a vital Geluk gompa with 300 monks; and several inhabited hermitages."
There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Serdzong Monastery to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
Cunard (talk) 10:43, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.