User talk:Phantomsteve/Archives/2011/August

This is an archive of past discussions about User:Phantomsteve. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

User:Anthony Winward, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Anthony Winward and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of User:Anthony Winward during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. v/r - TP 20:26, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

There is zero context there, just a name. I am frustrated beyond words with the editor who created that page. If you look through his contributions, you'll see he creates pages that are less than half baked and leaves them like that so that others can do the work. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:37, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

I'd have no problem with you PRODing it, but the title is sufficient to give context. Lack of content may have been an appropriate Speedy Deletion criteria though, so I am going to delete it under that criteria, which I should have done originally! Regards, PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 21:39, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I see the point about A1 versus A3. Thank you. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:52, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Sorry but I Don't understand the "quick deletion", it was a merge, and notable citation are on their way... I dont understand an artist with 15,000 fans and 250,000 plays on Myspace, and 17,000 fans on Reverbnation and made in-stores appearences at every Hot Topic in Puerto Rico can not make the wikipedia article?, when you have other artist from Puerto Rico and Americans too that don't follow the WM criteria and still here... what you need for this guy can make the wikipedia article?? because is me now that I have to respond to the artist?? With all respect, I put a "stub", because more info gonna be added.... Thank you so much for your help., Mroxidizer1 (talk) 21:45, 2 August 2011 (UTC)MrOxidizer1

OK, in response to the various points you make here:

1. The Cirex article was deleted because it did not indicate the importance or significance of the act. I note that it has now been deleted 5 times (3 times within the last month), and so I have prevented its recreation apart from by admins.
2. Myspace fans/plays do not make an artist notable; Reverbnation fans likewise do not do so.
3. Having "stub" is not a way to prevent an article being deleted if it does not meet the criteria for inclusion.
4. Whether other articles exist or not is not strictly relevant to whether this article exists - it might be that the others meet the criteria for inclusion, or that they should also be deleted - but I am not dealing with those articles, but with the Cirex one
5. To have an article, Cirex needs to meet the notability criteria for recording artists and the general notability guidelines. There needs to be references at reliable sources which are independent of the subject (so no MySpace/Facebook/etc sites, or his own websites/record company's websites, etc).
6. When you are responding to the artist, ask him "why do you want a Wikipedia article?" If he says something like "so that people can find out about me so that they will buy my music", or "because my fans keep looking for it", or "so that people realise that I am a serious artist" - tell him that he has the wrong reason for wanting an article here. We do not exist for promotion or for validation. Have you contacted Encyclopedia Britannica or Encarta asking for an entry on their encyclopedias? We are an encyclopedia too, and just like those (and other printed/web encyclopedias) we have inclusion criteria. Whilst they may be looser than those of a traditional encyclopedia, they still exist - and Cirex does not appear to meet the criteria for inclusion on Wikipedia

Of course, if you can provide some coverage of Cirex/Eric at reliable, independent sources, we can look at creating an article. I couldn't find any at Google News, Google Books or Google Scholar, and all the hits I found at Google Search were either his own websites, social networks, blogs, or other sites which would fail to meet either the independent source criteria and/or the reliable source criteria - if you can provide some which I missed, please let me know here and we can go forward from there - as I said, at the moment, only admins can re-create the Cirex article. Regards, PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 22:08, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

The only thing that i am gonna ask, where I can find a list of Wikipedia Administrators? I can find reliable source (just need time), I will need to be in contact with the artist first. Thanks Mroxidizer1 (talk) 22:19, 2 August 2011 (UTC)MrOxidizer1

Well, apart from myself there are another 1544 admins, of which 757 (including myself) are considered to be "active". A list of the admins can be found at Wikipedia:List of administrators. I should stress that if you contact another admin asking for the article to be either unprotected, or created, they will not do so unless you can provide suitable reliable independent sources - I'm not saying that they are not out there, but I didn't find any!

Again, ask Eric what his reasons are for wanting an article on Wikipedia - ask him to read "What Wikipedia is not", as that explains what reasons are not good reasons for wanting an article. Ask him to read both the General Notability Guidelines which explain what all subjects need to meet to qualify for an article, and the subject-specific notability guidelines for recording artists. When approaching myself or another admin with suitable sources, it's useful to be able to quote which criteria he meets in the notability guidelines - if you can't tell us that, then he is likely not to meet the criteria for inclusion.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact me again PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 22:32, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Ok. If i can find at least two independent reliable sources, you can re-create the article? He can wait, actually it was me who has been trying put him here, he is cool to be here or not (but he would like ofcourse), so again, if I find two resource, you can up the article again? Regards (p,d, can't noot be #REDIRECTED to Puerto Rican rock music for the moment??Mroxidizer1 (talk) 22:59, 2 August 2011 (UTC)MrOxidizer1

If you can find those, let me know and we can discuss it from there. As to the redirection, I don't think that would be a suitable redirection, as we don't generally do that, even if he is on the list of musicians on that page. PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 07:54, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Modified the text. OK like this, or? (Removed the last sentence)

New Two brothers Cornelis and Arij van der Lely started the Lely Group in Maassluis, the Netherlands, in 1948 with a clear mission; to improve the financial and social wellbeing of farmers worldwide. The first patent was made public on September 15, 1948, and thus Lely was put on the map as an agricultural company in 1948. This mission is still key in the company’s DNA today. The company’s history shows that each decade a product has been introduced into the sector with a significant impact on methods of working in the agricultural sector. Right from the start with the invention of the finger wheel rake, the Lely fertiliser spreader (1958) which is still produced today, the Lely Lotus tedders with their unique hook-shaped tine, the Lelyterra power harrow in 1968, which was the foundation for Lely’s real breakthrough – also international – up to and including the robotic milking system that was acknowledged by dairy farmers to be the invention of the 20th century.

Today the company is managed by the second Van der Lely generation. It employs 1,400 people and achieves annual revenues of EUR 400 mln. The company is still headquartered in Maassluis (near Rotterdam in The Netherlands) and Lely products are sold in over 60 countries worldwide. Sales and service of Lely forage solutions’ machinery are done through an independent dealer network, while barn, feeding and milk products are sold and serviced through a Lely Center network. A formula that in Europe is implemented under the umbrella of a franchising network, whereas in the North America and Australia/New Zealand the Lely Center concept is handled through independent dealers.

Old Two brothers Cornelis and Arij van der Lely started the Lely Group in Maassluis, the Netherlands, in 1948 with a clear mission; to improve the financial and social wellbeing of farmers worldwide. The first patent was made public on September 15, 1948, and thus Lely was put on the map as an agricultural company in 1948. This mission is still key in the company’s DNA today. The company’s history shows that each decade a product has been introduced into the sector with a significant impact on methods of working in the agricultural sector. Right from the start with the invention of the finger wheel rake, the Lely fertiliser spreader (1958) which is still produced today, the Lely Lotus tedders with their unique hook-shaped tine, the Lelyterra power harrow in 1968, which was the foundation for Lely’s real breakthrough – also international – up to and including the robotic milking system that was acknowledged by dairy farmers to be the invention of the 20th century.

Today the company is managed by the second Van der Lely generation. It employs 1,400 people and achieves annual revenues of EUR 400 mln. The company is still headquartered in Maassluis (near Rotterdam in The Netherlands) and Lely products are sold in over 60 countries worldwide. Sales and service of Lely forage solutions’ machinery are done through an independent dealer network, while barn, feeding and milk products are sold and serviced through a Lely Center network. A formula that in Europe is implemented under the umbrella of a franchising network, whereas in the North America and Australia/New Zealand the Lely Center concept is handled through independent dealers.

Having sold well over 12,500 milking robots in august 2011, this system seems to be the most appreciated by dairy farmers worldwide. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaime de Vos (talk • contribs) 10:07, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for contacting me. The Lely (company) article was speedily deleted as being promotional. To be honest, just removing the final sentence is not enough to prevent it still sounding like a promotional article. For subjects to be included in Wikipedia, they need to meet the general notability criteria, and for businesses they need to meet the criteria for businesses. At a bare minimum, there needs to be significant coverage of the company in sources which are reliable and that are independent of the subject. 'Significant' means more than just a brief mention in a list, or more than a single sentence or two - and the coverage needs to be more than just routine announcements such as staffing details or financial data. Ideally, an entire article in a newspaper about the company would be best. 'Independent' coverage excludes press releases (or coverage influenced or based on press releases), the company's own website(s), etc. It also excludes coverage which consists mainly of quotes from company personnel.

I also note that you work for the company (certainly, the twitter account in your name was originally titled Jaime de Vos (LelyIndustries), and the current one is titled @LelyGroup (Jaime de Vos); Behance has you connected with the company and LinkedIn shows you as Desktop Publisher at Lely Holding) - you have a clear conflict of interest here. This does not prohibit you from writing about the company, but certainly makes it hard for you to write in a neutral manner.

Should you be able to provide reliable independent coverage of the company, we can discuss re-creating an article. However, I looked and was unable to find anything suitable. Regards, PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 20:57, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. It's not quite a conflict of interest. Rather, it's hard to get the writers here to write in a non-marketing way. ;-) We have loads of relevant info to share about the company, it's history and its role in Automated milking robots etc. But need to translate that to "unbiased". I relay your comments and hope to get back to you soon with a more suitable text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.156.158.67 (talk) 22:31, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

It's more than just writing in an unbiased, neutral way. You need to show that the company meets Wikipedia's general notability guidelines and especially the guidelines for businesses, as well as having independent, reliable sources verifying information about them - press releases or other company material would not be sufficient! -- PhantomSteve.alt/talk\^{[alternative account of Phantomsteve]} 14:54, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

You deleted Wind advisory as a "recently created, implausible redirect". The problem being I wrote an article, not a redirect. Can you please undelete?  --Bowser the Storm Tracker  Keeping skies bright ^{Chat Me Up} 18:18, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Although originally created an an article, when flagged for deletion, it was a redirect, but one which appeared to be incorrect per the comments in the history. Were you thinking of re-writing the article, or keeping the redirect? Either way, I'll look at this tonight (I'm on my way to work now!) and restore if appropriate (this alternate account can't access deleted articles & history!) Regards -- PhantomSteve.alt/talk\^{[alternative account of Phantomsteve]} 05:38, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

I was just going to RV the edit that made it into a redirect.  --Bowser the Storm Tracker  Keeping skies bright ^{Chat Me Up} 09:57, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

I have restored it, and reverted to the last non-redirection version. Please discuss on the article's talk page to form a concensus on the content, etc PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 20:28, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Hello Phantomsteve! I hope you enjoy this yummy treat as a friendly greeting from a fellow Wikipedian, SwisterTwister talk 00:33, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

WP:Schmidt's Primer (shortcut WP:MQSP) Whatcha think before I go live? Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 07:13, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

I've had a very quick look and it looks good, but I'll look at it properly tonight. I think I found a formatting mistake - if having 3 x point 1s was intentional, feel free to revert! -- PhantomSteve.alt/talk\^{[alternative account of Phantomsteve]} 09:22, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Formatting error? This is why I invited extra eyes. Thanks. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 18:02, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

		The Copyeditor's Barnstar
		I am honored to award you this Barnstar for your work in catching my typos and your valued assistance in bringing Wikipedia:A Primer for newcomers to life for the community. It is hoped that newcomers will benefit from WP:NewbieGuide for years to come. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 05:55, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Hello

Many thanks for your welcome!I am still very nervous about making edits and creating new articles in case I commit errors and assistance from administrators like you would be a big help.

Can I seek your advice on a matter? Would the following qualify as a reliable source:

http://www.westernpeople.com/news/eyojsneyey/

I wanted to use this as a citation to an edit I have in mind.

Many thanks! (Shridhar1984 (talk) 18:12, 18 August 2011 (UTC))

The Western People would certainly meet the reliable source criteria from what I can see! I hope that helps! -- PhantomSteve.alt/talk\^{[alternative account of Phantomsteve]} 12:17, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Incidentally, the link would probably be best as http://www.westernpeople.ie/news/eyojsneyey/ - same destination, but using the paprer's "official" domain name! As to making mistakes - if they are made in good faith and you leave a meaningful edit summary, you'll have no worries - if you make a mistake, it can be undone or corrected! Regards -- PhantomSteve.alt/talk\^{[alternative account of Phantomsteve]} 12:22, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks for your advice.In fact I did make another edit and it was regarded and unreliable source by the gentleman who edited it out.

Here is the reference:

http://www.pjbs.org/pjnonline/fin152.pdf

To me it seems valid enough but I would very much welcome your view.Thanks again(Shridhar1984 (talk) 14:02, 21 August 2011 (UTC))

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