Matt Gaetz. Seems like an honest guy.
posted by whatevernot at 2:42 PM on November 13 [9 favorites]

🤮
posted by lalochezia at 2:43 PM on November 13 [11 favorites]

It's like roll call at the Hall of Doom
posted by Dr. Twist at 2:46 PM on November 13 [5 favorites]

I don’t even have the heart for jokes about it all.
posted by heyitsgogi at 2:49 PM on November 13 [60 favorites]

The last time we did this, I heard someone on NPR characterize his cabinet appointments as being like the Star Wars cantina crowd. That tracks even more for this round (although where is Steve Bannon? I'm scared to look)
posted by knotty knots at 2:51 PM on November 13 [8 favorites]

I literally hate this.
posted by alex_skazat at 2:54 PM on November 13 [17 favorites]

This joke could do with the updates. Thanks.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 2:55 PM on November 13 [7 favorites]

The problem is, these people are all intensely stupid. Even when they’re technically smart, they’re so belligerent and dogmatic they end up being useless.
posted by The River Ivel at 2:56 PM on November 13 [14 favorites]

I heard they were floating Hannibal Lecter for Sec HHS. And a shark with a boat battery on its head for Energy.

Don't forget, they plan to sell off the National Weather Service, end birthright citizenship and revoke on a whim the tax-exempt status of any non-profit (hello MeFi) they deem a 'terrorist organization'.
posted by zaixfeep at 2:56 PM on November 13 [13 favorites]

The River Ivel that's not a problem that's a silver lining.
posted by sotonohito at 2:58 PM on November 13 [3 favorites]

In a sane world Kristi Noem would be cowering in a gravel pit.
posted by mygothlaundry at 2:58 PM on November 13 [10 favorites]

Pete Hegseth convinced Trump 1.0 to pardon soldiers guilty of war crimes for shooting unarmed Iraqis. Trump evidently needs someone who would not hesitate to, say, carpet bomb Mexican cities.

Kristie Noems puppy murder experience will come in handy when she oversees torture and execution of political prisoners.
posted by CynicalKnight at 2:59 PM on November 13 [12 favorites]

It's like the 2025 edition of Cards Against Humanity: Celebrity Edition.
posted by y2karl at 3:04 PM on November 13 [6 favorites]

The problem is, these people are all intensely stupid. Even when they’re technically smart, they’re so belligerent and dogmatic they end up being useless.

I think we define “problem” differently.
posted by leotrotsky at 3:04 PM on November 13 [7 favorites]

This hasn't even reached peak ridiculous yet. I suspect there's crazier shit to come. Like Don Jr. or Vince McMahon.
posted by tclark at 3:04 PM on November 13 [3 favorites]

Maybe RFKJ can co-co-chair the DOGE to improve efficiency even more.

Edit: Sigh. Alas, the jokes bring no comfort, the snark no joy. I feel as empty as a condom on the moon.
posted by swift at 3:05 PM on November 13 [12 favorites]

RFKJ will be busy solving the vaccine problem.
posted by sammyo at 3:07 PM on November 13 [1 favorite]

When I saw this, what popped into my head was "Gary Hart and John Edwards' political careers were effectively ended when their affairs became public. Howard Dean saw his political ambitions end because he yelled loudly in excitement one time."

Meanwhile, we have a talking head taking charge of the military, a person who is clearly and obvious connected to India's Modi taking over national intelligence, a man under investigation for statutory rape and child trafficking is going to be the Attorney General, and Trump is inventing an entirely new arm of government to assist a capering, racist ketamine addict in a massive pump and dump scheme for the bullshit bitcoin variant he owns a very large percent of.

I'm sure the witch in the gingerbread house was under consideration for a child welfare post, but that only fell through when people had to convince Trump that she wasn't real.
posted by Ghidorah at 3:09 PM on November 13 [54 favorites]

Odds on Mike Lindell being named Sec'y Commerce?
posted by zaixfeep at 3:19 PM on November 13 [6 favorites]

Thank goodness Congress rejected the non-profit be-gone wand. Well, this Congress. Next year though…
posted by funkaspuck at 3:22 PM on November 13 [5 favorites]

When I saw this, what popped into my head was "Gary Hart and John Edwards' political careers were effectively ended when their affairs became public. Howard Dean saw his political ambitions end because he yelled loudly in excitement one time."

As many voters responded, Trump is not a politician, he's authentic and resolute. Just like the plague.
posted by zaixfeep at 3:22 PM on November 13 [5 favorites]

I’m somewhat heartened by the fact that at least half of these people have repeatedly demonstrated complete lack of moral compass and having a commensurate degree of loyalty to their peers won’t hesitate to shiv any one of them at the first sign of trouble.
posted by jerome powell buys his sweatbands in bulk only at 3:31 PM on November 13 [5 favorites]

I hope the cabinet picks result in a “we call it the three stooges syndrome” where all their attempts to do something terrible are foiled by some else’s attempt to do something terrible.
posted by roguewraith at 3:35 PM on November 13 [14 favorites]

A Whitman’s sampler of evil, with love from Donnie to Vladdie.
posted by non canadian guy at 3:38 PM on November 13 [4 favorites]

Fingers crossed that the Dems still in the Senate grow a spine and learn to wield the filibuster as mercilessly as McConnell and company did.
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 3:39 PM on November 13 [9 favorites]

Attorney General Matt Gaetz

Maybe if the current administration had, I don't know, actually prosecuted him for all the sex trafficking he did, this would not be happening.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:39 PM on November 13 [41 favorites]

I want a GIF of Putin and Xi holding beers, congratulating one another. “Smooth sailing from here on in my friend!”
posted by jerome powell buys his sweatbands in bulk only at 3:42 PM on November 13 [2 favorites]

Last year, I was passed over for promotion in favor of a highly confident, grossly underqualified colleague who was great at telling other confidently-uninformed people whatever they wanted to hear.

She lasted 8 months as our boss, and it was an absolutely dazzling Jekyll-and-Hyde theme park adventure, as her ineptitude gradually revealed itself and her inevitable narcissistic collapse set in.

I bring this up because reading this list is a bit like rewatching those eight months through a kaleidoscope. On a boomerang loop. While high.

I have to wonder who will fall out first, and what kind of second-string buffoons will be available to replace them.

Good luck, everybody (else, I mean).
posted by armeowda at 3:45 PM on November 13 [33 favorites]

I wonder how many of them will outlast a lettuce-on-a-webcam?
posted by jjderooy at 3:46 PM on November 13 [13 favorites]

A Whitman’s sampler of evil, with love from Donnie to Vladdie.
posted by non canadian guy
"Life is like a box of chocolates... you never know which way you're gonna get sick, puke your guts out, poop your guts out, or just straight-up die when you eat one."
posted by zaixfeep at 3:46 PM on November 13 [3 favorites]

It's all horrible, as will be the consequences, and I know the incompetence won't save us, but good god damn.
posted by mollweide at 3:48 PM on November 13 [4 favorites]

If you’d asked me, what’s the most obscene, over-the-top mockery you could make of our system of government (beyond reelecting Trump President) I think it would be nominating Matt Gaetz for Attorney General.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 3:49 PM on November 13 [25 favorites]

The Fox-News-host-to-leader-of-the-US-military pipeline.
posted by mbrubeck at 3:56 PM on November 13 [4 favorites]

Attorney General January 6th Viking Guy would probably be the funniest (assuming he shows up to the confirmation hearings in costume).
posted by nobody at 3:57 PM on November 13 [7 favorites]

Here I was afraid he would pick the Federalist Society recommended people who would be frighteningly effective. Instead, it's a clown car of people who have no idea what they're doing, and instead will effect terror.
posted by mrgoat at 3:57 PM on November 13 [24 favorites]

Mediaite is reporting that after inauguration, Trump plans to forcibly adjourn Congress and install all his picks via recess appointment.
posted by zaixfeep at 3:57 PM on November 13 [4 favorites]

"Nothing is true, everything is permitted," indeed. I wish William Burroughs and Robert Anton Wilson were here to see this, but I'm sure they'd be quite glad they're not, lol.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:59 PM on November 13 [6 favorites]

It culminates with NESTOR being made Chair of the Federal Reserve.
posted by meehawl at 3:59 PM on November 13

Man, the swamp is seriously gonna need draining in 2028.
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:00 PM on November 13 [4 favorites]

Assuming we even get the chance, that is.
posted by Greg_Ace at 4:02 PM on November 13 [1 favorite]

Article II, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Constitution stipulates:

The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.

Until this very moment, I thought that the appointments ended when the Senate came back into session rather than at the end of the next one. So yeah... they'll all just get re-appointed at the end of each senate session & much like the silent filibuster, this will become the new norm.

And it gets worse -- because these goons are going to be constantly under threat of not being re-appointed, nothing less than full-throated (gross) fealty will be tolerated.

I'm running out of phrases similar to "buckle up" and it's only a week since the election.
posted by turbowombat at 4:08 PM on November 13 [8 favorites]

Mediaite is reporting that after inauguration, Trump plans to forcibly adjourn Congress and install all his picks via recess appointment.

If this happens I am going to be even more mad that Biden waited 9 months to even nominate his FCC leadership and didn’t get a commissioner pick confirmed until another two years after that, with most of his term already gone.
posted by mbrubeck at 4:09 PM on November 13 [17 favorites]

Don't be mad at Biden, Harris, et al. Be angry at the wealthy (D) donors who whispered 'Hey Joe, do whatever the voters want, unless it harms my bank account.' You know, like the guy who said he was all for Harris as long as she would agree to fire Lina Khan by Jan 21. They made the pols seem two-faced and they are the problem.

One person one decibel one vote, not one vote / one decibel per dollar.
posted by zaixfeep at 4:18 PM on November 13 [6 favorites]

I can be mad at multiple people at once!
posted by rhymedirective at 4:22 PM on November 13 [24 favorites]

Yes let's blame anyone except the American people who actually voted for this knowing exactly what they'd get.
posted by biogeo at 4:22 PM on November 13 [11 favorites]

Blaming the American people isn’t exactly the start of a winning strategy
posted by dis_integration at 4:24 PM on November 13 [6 favorites]

Trump plans to forcibly adjourn Congress and install all his picks via recess appointment.

Critics won't believe this one weird trick to avoid confirmation!
posted by mrgoat at 4:25 PM on November 13 [8 favorites]

Time to go back to expanding your vocabulary for horrible reasons (remember autogolpe?) Today's word is Kakistocracy: a government run by the worst, least qualified, or most unscrupulous citizens.

Wikipedia says this had been used in reference to the 1st Drumpf administration, but I missed it that time round. And it's clear already that version 2.0 is going to be much worse.
posted by microscone at 4:25 PM on November 13 [11 favorites]

Trump plans to forcibly adjourn Congress and install all his picks via recess appointment.

What’s the mechanism to force congress to adjourn? (I mean a legal one).
posted by WaterAndPixels at 4:28 PM on November 13 [1 favorite]

"Are you shittin' me?"

--Rep. Mike Sampson (R-ID), re Gaetz as AG
posted by box at 4:28 PM on November 13 [7 favorites]

What’s the mechanism to force congress to adjourn? (I mean a legal one).

Article II section 3 of the constitution.

"He shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; he shall receive ambassadors and other public ministers; he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed, and shall commission all the officers of the United States."
posted by mrgoat at 4:30 PM on November 13 [1 favorite]

Mediaite article with description of mechanism. Article II and Speaker Johnson would have to cooperate.

Edit: Gaetz has reportedly resigned from Congress, effective immediately.
posted by zaixfeep at 4:30 PM on November 13 [5 favorites]

It's bad, but the way I am dealing with this is by not really giving a shit. It'll get my heartrate up, I'll start to doomscroll and catastrophize, and it's simply not good for my health. I think now is actually the worst time for this, when Trump hasn't even taken office so we can't even ground ourselves by criticising his actions--we can only imagine how bad it will get.

The Republicans have won. We need to fight, sure, but we also need to take care of ourselves. That's selfish, yes I suppse, but I'm not sure what I can do in my little corner over here...I've been an American leftist for the last 30 years, and all I see is leftist voices shut out every. goddamn. time. Of course by Republicans but also from Democrats. And it's exhausting and dispiriting, not gonna lie.

Anyway, I'm paying attention, but I've put a kind of plexiglass barrier in front of Donald Trump and all his shit. It'll help me going forward.
posted by zardoz at 4:31 PM on November 13 [39 favorites]

It's the scene in Blazing Saddles where Hedley Lamarr is signing up a queue of bandits, rustlers, thugs...
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 4:43 PM on November 13 [12 favorites]

I need to find a way to not give a shit. I'm so angry. Enraged. I can't think or speak clearly. I don't know why it's even worse tonight, but I'm not going to be able to handle the coming years like this. Not fucking again.
posted by biogeo at 4:47 PM on November 13 [14 favorites]

Ok so… why the fucking fuck was that mechanism not used by Obama to pass his nominations?
posted by WaterAndPixels at 4:47 PM on November 13 [6 favorites]

I should have been more clear. In a nutshell, neither the House or Senate can adjourn for more than three days without consent of the other house, Article I, Section 5. If they disagree, the president can adjourn them both until "such time as he shall think proper", so indefinitely, in theory. zaxifeep's link has a little more on it.

Senate votes to adjourn. Speaker of the House says "Nah". President says "Hey, they disagree! Legislature closed until I say so." Recess appointments commence.
posted by mrgoat at 4:48 PM on November 13 [9 favorites]

Damn, I bet all my Bitcoin on Sydney Powell, Jenna Ellis and Melissa Carone - and are we still moving White House Press ops to Four Seasons Total Landscaping?
posted by thecincinnatikid at 4:48 PM on November 13 [1 favorite]

Skål!
posted by clavdivs at 4:55 PM on November 13 [1 favorite]

Ok so… why the fucking fuck was that mechanism not used by Obama to pass his nominations?

Obama did make 32 recess appointments (though during real 10+ day recesses, not by forcing one like under this scheme). Also, after his first two years, the Democrats didn't control the House, so the Senate itself would have had to agree to let him use this trick. [Source: this 2015 Congressional Research Service report on recess appointments.]
posted by nobody at 4:57 PM on November 13 [7 favorites]

Don't be mad at Biden, Harris, et al.
OK rephrase: What I meant is that the place I'd most like to apply pressure by naming and shaming and boycotting - is these big-money (D) donors and wherever they will feel it in their wallets and see it in the society pages/social media. They neled to be strongly reminded their wealth came from our labor and spending, and be more circumspect toward us. The old old liberal Republicans were at least smart enough to grudgingly accept that they had to not just talk, but actuallu throw us a bone once in a while.

The Dem elites need to stop serving two opposing constituencies, and looking like incompetent Machiavellians. It turns out our voters really will vote for a resolute 'I am gonna eat you!' over a tentative 'Ahh errm let me say this about that...'
posted by zaixfeep at 4:59 PM on November 13 [10 favorites]

The Guardian has this gem:

Another Republican representative, Max Miller, called the selection “silly,” according to NBC, adding:
I believe that the president is probably rewarding him for being such a loyal soldier to the president. But the president is smart enough, and his team is smart enough to know that Mr Gaetz will never get confirmed by the Senate whatsoever.

And this, apparently after Gaetz has resigned from congress...
posted by piyushnz at 5:00 PM on November 13 [4 favorites]

Two heads for the Department Of Government Efficiency (DOGE).

That’s a joke right?
posted by adamrice at 5:02 PM on November 13 [13 favorites]

I’m so glad we’re back to the “he won’t really do that” stage of a trump administration, anyone who says that should be immediately slapped
posted by dis_integration at 5:05 PM on November 13 [21 favorites]

"This should never happen. It's stupid and impossible."

** TRUMP CHEAT CODE APPLIED **

"Wow, I guess that happened. Unbelievable."
posted by zaixfeep at 5:07 PM on November 13 [13 favorites]

Two heads for the Department Of Government Efficiency (DOGE).

That’s a joke right?

Nope. It's a deliberate attempt at manipulating a largely unregulated market.
posted by mrgoat at 5:08 PM on November 13 [4 favorites]

"Are you shittin' me?" --Rep. Mike Sampson (R-ID), re Gaetz as AG : posted by box

See microscone's previous comment:
Today's word is Kakistocracy: a government run by the worst, least qualified, or most unscrupulous citizens.

Perhaps Skatocracy would be better:
posted by symbioid at 5:10 PM on November 13 [3 favorites]

That’s a joke right?

The joke has already left the barn, set it on fire and is laughing at anybody trying to shut the door.
posted by mollweide at 5:10 PM on November 13 [1 favorite]

Yes let's blame anyone except the American people who actually voted for this knowing exactly what they'd get.

There are people who amplified Russian disinformation and helped depress turnout for Harris and increase third-party turnout. Those are the people who have put us in this, just as much as Trump voters. But Her Emails Part II, except now there are no guardrails.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 5:20 PM on November 13 [6 favorites]

The Dem elites need to stop serving two opposing constituencies, and looking like incompetent Machiavellians. It turns out our voters really will vote for a resolute 'I am gonna eat you!' over a tentative 'Ahh errm let me say this about that...'

They only serve one constituency. It's not you and me, that constituency. If the democrats win, the bet pays off for their constituency. If the democrats lose, oh what a shame, it's too bad about all those ignorant deplorables and the damn dirty hippies that made people not want to vote for you, here's some money so you can beat the bad guys next time. The only losing move is to alienate the constituency. If they alienate the constituency and a bunch of nobodies vote them into office, what fucking good does that do? They'd lose all the money!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:23 PM on November 13 [8 favorites]

If they disagree, the president can adjourn them both until "such time as he shall think proper", so indefinitely, in theory.

well, that worked out great for king charles I, didn't it?
posted by pyramid termite at 5:23 PM on November 13 [2 favorites]

It will be very interesting to see if Gabbard can actually get the kind of security clearance she'd need for this job. Being a willing spokesperson for Putin might prove to be more than a bit of a speed bump.

As for Musk, I'm pessimistic about the ability of the media and the social media chatterati to go beyond being obviously outraged by whatever he proposes cutting, which will include targets selected specifically to generate headlines while what he is really doing is gutting the SEC or whatever.
posted by senor biggles at 5:30 PM on November 13 [2 favorites]

well, that worked out great for king charles I, didn't it?

The protestants are on the wrong side this time!
posted by mittens at 5:31 PM on November 13 [1 favorite]

i thought kakistocracy was government by the Dockers clothing-obsessed. Or Scouts.
posted by zaixfeep at 5:37 PM on November 13 [3 favorites]

Really, I don't believe most people who voted for Trump really knew what they were voting for. There are too many low-information voters out there. Yes, it's still their fault, but they did it out of ignorance, not malice.
posted by lhauser at 5:37 PM on November 13 [2 favorites]

It will be very interesting to see if Gabbard can actually get the kind of security clearance she'd need for this job.
Trump can just give her whatever clearance she needs.
posted by dirigibleman at 5:37 PM on November 13 [8 favorites]

kittens for breakfast, I've been impressed by how even the wealthiest cockroaches will scatter when illuminated strongly and continuously enough. For example, none of these people is likely to have a totally empty oppo file. More importanty, none of them are Trump, with his vengeful and unshakeable base. But of course I could be wrong, and my point aside, your point is not without merit.
posted by zaixfeep at 5:44 PM on November 13 [1 favorite]

What?! Nothing for Nikki Haley?
posted by fluffycreature at 5:56 PM on November 13 [3 favorites]

The problem is, these people are all intensely stupid. Even when they’re technically smart, they’re so belligerent and dogmatic they end up being useless.

This being the giant Achilles Heel of fascism. They get so high off their own supply they forget that the useful but incompetent pawns were supposed to stay pawns.

Even if he can get confirmed through that Senate, Gaetz is going to be all bark and no bite because he's a complete fucking moron who's now completely out of his depth. He doesn't have any allies, any connections with any real power, and nobody who will stick their neck out for him because he's an antagonistic firebrand.

Don't get me wrong he's going to fire half the DOJ but the remaining people are going to be slow walking everything and just generally keeping him out of the loop wherever possible. They're not going to risk their bar cards filing indictment after indictment trying to pin down Democratic politicians. He's going to be effectively blind running the department and he doesn't have the experience to know the way without a guide and he doesn't have the intelligence to forge his own route.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 6:00 PM on November 13 [9 favorites]

Don't you people remember the constant "acting X" nonsense from last time? They aren't going to wait for Senate confirmations. They probably aren't even going to try. They're just going to roll into the offices and start doing shit. Some people will object, and they will be dragged out. Cases will be filed to stop them, and they will be ignored.

Their goal is to tear down the government. None of them are out of their depth for that. Just fire everybody, start locking doors, destroying records, render nonfunctional anything that functions. They can do that just fine just by doing it.

Checks don't exist. Balances don't exist. They're gone. "Oppo research" will be laughed at and they will keep doing it.

He's not going to fire half of the DOJ, he's going to fire all of it except for whatever trusties are there, and fill it with people who are yes, totally going to indict (and probably immediately jail) whatever Democratic politicians (or anybody else) that they decide needs it.
posted by notoriety public at 6:09 PM on November 13 [24 favorites]

Yes let's blame anyone except the American people who actually voted for this knowing exactly what they'd get.

Really, I don't believe most people who voted for Trump really knew what they were voting for. There are too many low-information voters out there. Yes, it's still their fault, but they did it out of ignorance, not malice.


I'm going to continue to be unhappiest with Republican primary voters who chose DJT out of a field of less terrible options. Pence, DeSantis, Haley were all right there, a full range of Christo-conservatives to moderate conservative. And they chose DJT.

And while unhappy with those who voted for Trump, those voters at least showed up. I'm even more unhappy with the Democratic voters who didn't show up, despite knowing what was at stake and that voter interference/intimidation was happening in desperately needed states.
posted by beaning at 6:11 PM on November 13 [5 favorites]

What?! Nothing for Nikki Haley?
posted by fluffycreature

Now that Trump knows Haley's M.O., he wants his agenda to pass smoothly and doesn't want to be blocked.
posted by zaixfeep at 6:14 PM on November 13

But back to the cabinet and other appointments, the chaos is already in play. Exxon has already asked that green energy not be walked back as it creates too much uncertainty/costs in their current long term planning. EV stocks that were dying are at least bouncing. Most competitors with Musk's interests are not experiencing the same bounce that those which Musk favors are. Crazy how that works.
posted by beaning at 6:15 PM on November 13 [3 favorites]

What?! Nothing for Nikki Haley?

She's actually been implicitly excluded already by Trump https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/09/us/politics/trump-haley-pompeo.html
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 6:18 PM on November 13 [2 favorites]

Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth

Trump is such a creature of television.
posted by doctornemo at 6:27 PM on November 13 [4 favorites]

If you're a lame-duck President facing an authoritarian takeover by your successor, and you truly believe the successor - based on their promises, rhetoric, and past words and deeds *as President* - to be an existential threat to your democracy.... why not take advantage of a Supreme Court ruling that says you can't be prosecuted and... remove a couple of people from the food chain, call for a new election, and resign your presidency? What, do you think history will judge you *more harshly* than if you hand over the reigns of power to someone bent on destroying the nation state from inside?

Or are we forced to conclude that the President (and by extension the Democratic power structures) never believed in any of it? Or that they're fine with it provided they can hold onto enough power themselves? Because that's what it looks like. That's a *lot* what it looks like.
posted by MarchHare at 6:38 PM on November 13 [27 favorites]

Hegseth and Gaetz?

#Floridamen
posted by doctornemo at 6:47 PM on November 13 [2 favorites]

It's not that simple. The republicans and Fox news STAY calling the democrats wild radicals who don't believe in the rule of law. Every accusation is a confession, we know. But if Biden does that, the Republicans will use that for 100 years to act like the Democratic party should be disbanded, and the media will go right along with that and entertain it.

Trump has already triggered an insurrection and still people voted for him. But let Biden try to stop Trump from destroying the country, and the Republicans will use that to run buck wild.
posted by cashman at 6:48 PM on November 13 [4 favorites]

I wonder how it's going in the timeline where that first assassination attempt was successful. He hadn't picked JD Vance yet, so there really wouldn't be any particular heir apparent. Who do the Republicans nominate the following week? Does Biden stay in the race? Either way, I'm pretty sure not-yet-pardoned-sex-offender Matt Gaetz doesn't get nominated to be attorney general in any world but ours. Jesus.
posted by nobody at 6:48 PM on November 13 [3 favorites]

And yeah, you know and I know that the Republicans are already running buck wild and once Trump is in office, might literally destroy the country. But even on this site yesterday I saw somebody say "You know? Maybe the worry about Trump is overblown."

Like even here, people are still not able to fully commit to Trump being horrific. Even here! Let Biden try that and after it's all said and done the majority of the country will believe that Trump was just aw shucks wanting to take office and help the Government be better and he only planned to deport really bad people and so what he didn't know the eating-the-dogs thing was a lie, he's a good guy! But that BIDEN guy, whoo, what a nut!
posted by cashman at 6:52 PM on November 13 [8 favorites]

There's no proof that the SCOTUS meant all Presidents are immune.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 6:54 PM on November 13 [2 favorites]

For those who wish to do something, tell your Senators to fill every judicial vacancy now.
posted by JDC8 at 7:08 PM on November 13 [9 favorites]

Josh Marshall had a thread on bsky tonight (in response to Jamelle Bouie) that I found a little comforting (and it's worth reading the whole thing), as we think about this cabinet--well, this suggestion of a cabinet (mild editing and emphasis on the excerpt below):

"It’s actually very hard to convert a democracy to an autocracy. And the great majority of states where it’s happened are ones that only had a functioning civic democracy for a couple decades at most. Could Trump pull that off? Yes he absolutely could. But deciding that it’s happened already when all there’s really been is a statement of intent is not only pathetic but again totally self-defeating. A better answer, not only more effective but simply more dignified is to say, okay, let’s see you try. It’s not easy. There are a lot of road blocks. It requires maintaining a lot of public support. It’s not easy. So if you think there’s some psychic or moral merit in jumping into every conversation and saying 'No it’s over. He said he was going to be a dictator. Don’t be so naive!' Well that’s you. And that’s really nothing more than rolling out the red carpet, capitulating in advance."
posted by mittens at 7:13 PM on November 13 [20 favorites]

The last Mexican president made up a department called the Instituto para Devolver al Pueblo lo Robado ("Institute to Return What Was Stolen to the People."), which was woefully inneficient, maybe the US will get one of those!
posted by Omon Ra at 7:17 PM on November 13 [5 favorites]

Sometimes there's a $100,000 ring the store never sells, so you don't realize you're getting ripped off when you buy the $10,000 ring. I bet Gaetz isn't confirmed, but while we breathe a sigh of relief, Tulsi Gabbard ends up running our intelligence agencies, etc.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 7:33 PM on November 13 [5 favorites]

If you're a lame-duck President facing an authoritarian takeover by your successor, and you truly believe the successor - based on their promises, rhetoric, and past words and deeds *as President* - to be an existential threat to your democracy.... why not take advantage of a Supreme Court ruling that says you can't be prosecuted and


Ok so obviously Biden doing the funniest thing in the world with his secret service agent’s sidearm is the realm of fantasy but why is he shaking his hand and smiling and laughing like everything is fine. Either it was the most important election in history or it’s just another republican administration in a long line. Sometimes I think the democrats are just gluttons for punishment. Maybe they just like losing
posted by dis_integration at 7:35 PM on November 13 [13 favorites]

I've yet to see decent discussion on his choosing of current governors, senators and representatives. Sure, Florida will replace Gaetz and Rubio with other Republicans but will New York replace Stefanik with a Republican? What does this do to his margins? I know Trump isn't counting but someone on his staff should be.
posted by beaning at 7:51 PM on November 13 [2 favorites]

I’m fully expecting a Scaramucci to represent close to a geological age by the time these chucklefucks have finished their musical chairs
posted by Jon Mitchell at 8:15 PM on November 13 [4 favorites]

Stefanik’s seat will not officially be up for grabs until she resigns, which will probably happen after she is confirmed by the U.S. Senate early next year. Gov. Kathy Hochul would then have 10 days to schedule a special election to be held within another 70-80 days. Rather than a traditional primary election, the nominees for the Republican and Democratic parties will each be selected by the respective chairs of their party committees for each county in the district. Each chair’s vote is weighted by the number of registered voters in their party per county.

Republicans are predicted to win the House of Representatives by a narrow margin, and control of Stefanik’s seat could become crucial if Trump continues to pull incumbent House Republicans into his cabinet. In the deeply red North Country, the odds of a Democratic challenger winning the seat in a special election are low, but not negligible, especially with the high-pressure conditions of an expedited special election. -- https://www.timesunion.com/capitol/article/take-elise-stefanik-s-seat-congress-19909429.php
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 8:18 PM on November 13 [3 favorites]

There are still 9 uncalled races left. As long as the GOP picks up 3, they'll be still be in control.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 8:22 PM on November 13

According to these guys the Repubs already have control of the house (by one seat), though with only four seats left to decide at best they can only have a very slim margin.

Not that a very slim margin makes me feel any better about it. They now control all four (civilian) branches of government. Only the military left, and they will be working very hard on that as we speak.

Either that election was genuinely rigged, or the Trumpian MAGA really do represent the actual core values of the USA.

At least of those who could be fucking bothered to vote.
posted by Pouteria at 9:29 PM on November 13 [1 favorite]

I wonder how it's going in the timeline where that first assassination attempt was successful.
posted by nobody

The greatest what-if of recent history. Hands down winner.
posted by Pouteria at 9:32 PM on November 13 [4 favorites]

It's remarkable that each and every one of these appointees manages to be worse than ALL of the others.

I mean, logically, that should not be possible.

Yet here we are.
posted by AsYouKnow Bob at 9:41 PM on November 13 [10 favorites]

... are we forced to conclude that the President (and by extension the Democratic power structures) never believed in any of it? Or that they're fine with it provided they can hold onto enough power themselves? Because that's what it looks like. That's a *lot* what it looks like.
It looks like that because that's what it is. Political parties exist primarily to secure their own continued existence and politics is a long game where all the big players get their time in the sun, as long as they're patient and let the other team bat for a while now and again. Politicians want to be elected and re-elected, but they can't do that if they upset the party. Even when they can't be re-elected, the habits of a lifetime are hard to break. Above all else, Biden is the quintessential politician and knows how to play the game. It's possible he doesn't know he's already out of the game.
posted by dg at 9:48 PM on November 13 [4 favorites]

I had not seen that Huckabee had been tapped as ambassador to Israel. That's a strong statement of intent regarding the christofascist project. Whoever cursed me to live in interesting times: Fuck. You.

Sadly, the only way off an unpleasant rollercoaster is to finish the ride.
posted by wierdo at 9:58 PM on November 13 [3 favorites]

Who's the leader of the club that's made for you and me?
M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E
Hey there, Hi there, Ho there! You're as welcome as can be!
M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E

Mickey Mouse! (Donald Duck!)
Mickey Mouse! (Donald Duck!)
Forever let us hold our banner high, high, high, high!

Come along and sing a song disband the FBI.
M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E
Mickey Mouse Club!
Mickey Mouse Club!

We'll have fun
We'll meet new faces
We'll do things for a 3rd term
All around the world we're marching

Who's the leader of the club that's made for you and me?
M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E
posted by clavdivs at 10:21 PM on November 13 [2 favorites]

(D-O-N-A-L-D T-R-U-M-P scans too, fyi.)
posted by fingers_of_fire at 10:29 PM on November 13 [4 favorites]

fyi
true, though I do not have to do this when I'm the hurling invective.

imagine an Administration that's like a Mercury capsule at a tractor pull.
posted by clavdivs at 12:18 AM on November 14

I for one feel reassured by the knowledge that nothing will happen that is so utterly awful and damaging to America and democracy that it can't be withheld and published 3-5 years from now in exchange for a tidy sum.
posted by zaixfeep at 3:30 AM on November 14 [6 favorites]

Grow a spine, 3 republican senators!

Insist on confirmation hearings, or become independents and caucus with dems.

If you don’t want YOUR senate to actually resemble the Imperial Senate from star wars…….
posted by lalochezia at 4:12 AM on November 14 [1 favorite]

helped depress turnout for Harris and increase third-party turnout

I have listed couple of these already; here's another screamingly obvious example.

Like all the others, little to no anti-Trump, scathingly anti-Democrat. Followers might enjoy this "Marxist" book featuring "an alternative history of the Trump era".

They can read how Taiwan belongs to China and Ukraine belongs to Russia.

Or, maybe they would rather read about the widely misunderstood Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea.

Finally, readers can absorb some unintentionally hilarious doublethink about George Orwell, because they certainly don't want anyone reading 1984.

This is one of many on Instagram. Other platforms likely have many more.

If Trump got roughly the same vote count as last time, but 14 million people abstained from voting for Harris, this kind of material is likely a major factor.

WWIII is over. The US fell, and soon a lot more of the free world will fall as well.
posted by CynicalKnight at 5:11 AM on November 14 [1 favorite]

So looking ahead, the trite phrase "Dark Ages" is taken, what shall we call the next hundred or two years?
posted by sammyo at 5:23 AM on November 14

what shall we call the next hundred or two years?

Dark Enlightenment
posted by CynicalKnight at 5:27 AM on November 14 [1 favorite]

Oh, now you've finally got me nervous.
posted by sammyo at 5:33 AM on November 14 [1 favorite]

Newsweek: 'How To Change My Vote' Searches Spike in States Won By Donald Trump

Now that's simply adorable.
posted by zaixfeep at 5:40 AM on November 14 [7 favorites]

Re: "how to change my vote." It seems like Newsweek is assuming buyers remorse from Trump voters but couldn't it also be Harris voters scared of being purged?
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 5:57 AM on November 14 [2 favorites]

I'm not going to get into a back and forth about it again (sorry about last time, I didn't realize I was having a manic episode until it was over), but criticism of Harris and Biden on Gaza is not "Russian disinformation", just because it was inconvenient for the Harris campaign.

All third party candidates together got fewer. votes than the gap between Harris and Trump, and not all of those votes were ones that otherwise would have gone to Harris. RFK, after dropping out nearly equalled the votes of Jill Stein. The Democrats lost 11 million votes between 2020 and 2024. There aren't 11 million people in the US who care about genocide in Gaza or Yemen, or prison abolition. There are plenty who are motivated by transphobia, racism, and economic desperation.

WWIII is over. The US fell, and soon a lot more of the free world will fall as well.


Things are about to be very bad for a lot of people, but I think some people are catastrophizing. This will not usher in a new dark age for mankind. Fascist governments have risen and fallen since '45. Trump isn't Hitler. He's Bolsonaro or Berlusconi.

That is plenty bad enough. People are going to suffer under Trump and some US allies will suffer the sorts of attocities US enemies typically get to. But the notion that this is the start of centuries of slavery for mankind both overestimates how much Trump and co. will be able to accomplish, and underwstimates how much slavery and murder the US and its allies already rely on.

I will see myself out now. Take care everybody.
posted by pattern juggler at 6:16 AM on November 14 [2 favorites]

it was inconvenient for the Harris campaign.

LET IT GO! This thread is not about Harris
posted by Press Butt.on to Check at 6:20 AM on November 14 [10 favorites]

Matt Gaetz resigns from Congress (NYT)
posted by box at 6:21 AM on November 14 [1 favorite]

I find these picks weirdly cheering. This is not the crew you put together to actually co-opt a mechanism as complicated as the US government, or to manage as ambitious a plan as deporting 20 million people.

They'll do a lot of harm, because you don't have to be very competent to destroy institutions, but I'd take incompetent destruction over effective evil weaponizing any day. It's going to hurt a lot when the services the government has provided stop working as well, and it's going to suck for the world at large because our influence is going to wane and competent autocrats like Putin are going to fill the gap (Ukraine is basically toast), but frankly all these "own the libs" memes running the place instead of Federalist-Society-vetted career evil bureaucrats are probably the least terrible likely outcome.
posted by jackbishop at 6:26 AM on November 14 [6 favorites]

Trump has already triggered an insurrection and still people voted for him. But let Biden try to stop Trump from destroying the country, and the Republicans will use that to run buck wild.

As opposed to now?
posted by fullerine at 6:28 AM on November 14 [3 favorites]

Things are about to be very bad for a lot of people, but I think some people are catastrophizing. This will not usher in a new dark age for mankind. Fascist governments have risen and fallen since '45. Trump isn't Hitler. He's Bolsonaro or Berlusconi.

But the notion that this is the start of centuries of slavery for mankind both overestimates how much Trump and co. will be able to accomplish, and underwstimates how much slavery and murder the US and its allies already rely on.

Even without Trump the US imprisons 1% of its population where slavery is completely legal according to the 13th amendment. California even tried to vote to get rid of that loophole, nobody submitted a defense, and the electorate still voted it down in spades. The markets are already salivating at how many people they'll get paid to hold and then have slave for them.

Combined with Operation W-----k 2025 and it's pretty fucking clear this is what the end goal is. "Deport" the illegals, the countries won't accept them, then they'll imprison them for immigration crimes and use them for labor. They'll sell it by saying "they're earning their keep". "But the USG doesn't use private prisons?" I hear you ask. The US Marshals continue to rely on private for-profit prisons to house detained immigrants using loopholes and middlemen.

Private prisons are basically going to be paid to enslave people by the USG. They'll get both bites of the apple.

So miss me with this "how much he'll be able to accomplish"shtick because the system is literally primed to do this very fucking job.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 6:31 AM on November 14 [16 favorites]

So miss me with this "how much he'll be able to accomplish"shtick because the system is literally primed to do this very fucking job.

You're right, of course. This is going to be a nightmare.

But I was responding to people talking about "the free world" falling and centuries of darkness.

This is going to be terrible, but it is going to be an exacerbation of the already existing brutal, carceral system and racist economic extraction the US already relies on, not some YA dystopia.
posted by pattern juggler at 6:52 AM on November 14 [2 favorites]

I find these picks weirdly cheering. This is not the crew you put together to actually co-opt a mechanism as complicated as the US government, or to manage as ambitious a plan as deporting 20 million people.

There is wide speculation - like from former US attorney Joyce Vance in her newest Civil Discourse piece Will the Senate Bend the Knee? - that at least some of these picks are Trump (and his "smarter" advisors like Steve Bannon and Stephen Miller) pushing the boundaries to see how much pushback he's going to get from Senate Republicans and which ones.

(Maybe worth noting that R Senators have already balked at being forcibly and obviously manipulated - the MAGAverse was pushing hard for Rick Scott to be Senate Majority Leader, he lost in the first round of voting and John Thune from South Dakota won in the end. Thune is not fully MAGA-fied, he doesn't want to burn it all to the ground because that's bad for business.)
posted by soundguy99 at 6:58 AM on November 14 [2 favorites]

Matt Gaetz... I get it :
simply cherrypicking the best of the worst ?
posted by nicolin at 6:58 AM on November 14

The Democrats lost 11 million votes between 2020 and 2024

I've been following the vote numbers to be able to do some calculations on the final figures, and frustratingly they're still not there yet; Wikipedia's latest figures have 97% reported as of today.

The latest (slightly higher) BBC figures show Trump on 75,944,072 votes (50.1%) and Harris on 72,932,160 (48.1%). This is much closer than most of the earlier talk this time last week, when I was despairing that she was then 3.7% behind.

Biden in 2020 got 81,283,501 votes to Trump's 74,223,975. So Trump has picked up votes, maybe a couple of million by the time it's all done, and the Dems have lost them, but probably only around 8 million in the final count. That's a lot less than 11 million, and a hell of a lot less than the 20 million I've still seen being quoted this week.

I guess what I'm saying is keep checking the figures before quoting how many votes Harris was down compared with Biden. Otherwise we're just lending Trump further legitimacy.

This won't make a blind bit of difference now, but that gap of eight million-ish votes between Biden and Harris can't all be thanks to Democratic voters staying home. Some of it has to be voter suppression. If it isn't, then what were all those Republican states doing wasting their time on it?

The overall total is down on 2020 despite all the scenes on TV of long lines at voting booths. Those were inevitable when there were 100,000 fewer polling places this year—of course the lines will be long at the ones that are left. The number has been cut in half since 2018—again, voter suppression.
posted by rory at 7:04 AM on November 14 [16 favorites]

As someone who doesn't know anything about him, I found this thread on Hegseth eye-opening and horrifying.
posted by rory at 7:10 AM on November 14 [6 favorites]

all i can say is that the next 4 years is going to be an education in the law of unintended consequences - many things they try will backfire spectacularly - perhaps they could summon the ghost of stalin and ask him how his purge of high ranking officers helped him a year or two later when germany invaded - and in our country, they get to complain publicly about it and discourage even more people from considering the military as a career
posted by pyramid termite at 7:26 AM on November 14 [2 favorites]

Lost in the shuffle: With Gaetz's resignation from the House, the House no longer needs to release their immanently-expected ethics committee report on him.

He was also the only interviewee for AG that committed to 'chopping f*****g heads' and burning the depaartment downto the ground . Trump reportedly liked his blunt and direct language.
posted by zaixfeep at 7:55 AM on November 14 [3 favorites]

Article II and Speaker Johnson would have to cooperate.

Maybe that's the "little secret" Johnson and Trump had during the campaign.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:17 AM on November 14 [1 favorite]

I know people differ a bit on Matt Stoller, but his piece on "Khanservative" Gaetz was worth reading.
posted by mittens at 8:18 AM on November 14 [2 favorites]

Some of it has to be voter suppression. If it isn't, then what were all those Republican states doing wasting their time on it?

Exactly. Harris County, Texas (AKA Houston), has experienced some of the worst of it.
posted by grubi at 8:40 AM on November 14 [4 favorites]

I could be a Trump yes man.

That wasn't the stupidest thing I've ever heard, Mr. President. Your farts are perfume!

That was a particularly fragrant idea.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:04 AM on November 14

If Trump got roughly the same vote count as last time, but 14 million people abstained from voting for Harris, this kind of material is likely a major factor.
posted by CynicalKnight at 9:11 AM on November 14

The latest (slightly higher) BBC figures show Trump on 75,944,072 votes (50.1%) and Harris on 72,932,160 (48.1%).
posted by rory at 11:04 AM on November 14

The way the media publishes early voting totals without blaring that they're only whatever percent of the vote is journalistic malpractice and leads to this 14 million claim that everybody's going to remember as fact.

According to NBC, right now we're at Harris 72,958,807 votes (48.1%), Trump 75,962,848 votes (50.1%), with some tiny amount for Other that they don't give the numbers for.

California still has 1,731,000 votes to count and Harris is getting 58.7% of the vote there. Washington: 250,000; 57.8%. Illinois: 340,000; 54.1%. Massachusetts: 96,000; 60.9%. New York: 142,000; 55.6%. Then there's a bunch of states with under 50,000 votes left to count.

By my back-of-the-envelope math, we're going to end up with Harris at around 74,500,000 votes and Trump at 77,000,000. So, perhaps 6.5-7 million Democrats abstained from voting for Harris (compared to Biden in 2020).

Something that absolutely boggles my mind is reading my friends posting that they need volunteers to cure ballots and finish the counts. Meanwhile, I am working for the provincial election in Nova Scotia as a poll worker and getting paid a little over $20/hr to do it, and a big part of my job will be counting the votes. It boggles the mind that the US can spend so much on elections but not pay people to actually count the votes.
posted by joannemerriam at 10:32 AM on November 14 [16 favorites]

perhaps 6.5-7 million Democrats abstained from voting for Harris

Thanks very much for clarifying that.

Fascist governments have risen and fallen since '45. Trump isn't Hitler. He's Bolsonaro or Berlusconi

On the other hand, Franco held power for 36 years, and Pinochet for 17. I would dearly love to have egg on my face over this. If Metafilter still exists four years from now and the neo-fascists are voted out, I will apologize profusely.
posted by CynicalKnight at 10:55 AM on November 14 [4 favorites]

On the other hand, Franco held power for 36 years

"Good evening, praise Kier Eagan and Lumon Corporation, I'm Chevy C 26 and, unless you're one of my creche-mates, you're not. Tonight's top story, American strongman The Great Presidentor Donald J. Trump is still dead. Howver, experts note he has a long way to go to beat current world record holder Generalissimo Francisco Franco."
posted by zaixfeep at 12:05 PM on November 14 [2 favorites]

Today's word is Kakistocracy: a government run by the worst, least qualified, or most unscrupulous citizens.

Spelled that wrong. It's Cacaistocracy: a government composed of shit.
posted by BlueHorse at 12:38 PM on November 14 [1 favorite]

By my back-of-the-envelope math, we're going to end up with Harris at around 74,500,000 votes and Trump at 77,000,000. So, perhaps 6.5-7 million Democrats abstained from voting for Harris (compared to Biden in 2020).

Meanwhile Harris received more votes than Biden in Georgia, Nevada, North Carolina and Wisconsin. Whatever the final story turns out to be, it's going to be so complicated!
posted by mittens at 1:07 PM on November 14 [4 favorites]

So, perhaps 6.5-7 million Democrats abstained from voting for Harris (compared to Biden in 2020)

That’s the overall gap compared to 2020 and Trump is up from 74m last time so some of those are almost certainly swing (swung?) votes, not Democratic abstentions.

But I appreciate somebody else hammering the larger point, it’s really driven me nuts seeing how many narratives people are spinning based on the clearly incomplete numbers from a week ago.
posted by atoxyl at 1:16 PM on November 14

They just announced RFK Jr. for Secretary of Health and Human Services. So, that happened. What a joke.
posted by HVACDC_Bag at 1:32 PM on November 14 [2 favorites]

Gaetz was just a warmup. RFK, Jr., for Sec of HHS.

Here are a few words from his father, more than a half decade ago, in a very different context, but which seem still appropriate:

"..I have some very sad news for all of you. ... I have some very sad news for all of you and, I think, sad news for all of our fellow citizens and people who love peace all over the world, and that is that Martin Luther King was shot and was killed tonight in Memphis, Tennessee.

... In this difficult day, in this difficult time for the United States, it’s perhaps well to ask what kind of a nation we are and what direction we want to move in. ...you can be filled with bitterness and with hatred and a desire for revenge.

We can move in that direction as a country, in greater polarization... Or we can make an effort, as Martin Luther King did, to understand and to comprehend, and replace that violence, that stain of bloodshed that has spread across our land, with an effort to understand, compassion, and love.

...My favorite poem–my favorite poet–was Aeschylus, and he once wrote: “Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget, falls drop by drop upon the heart, until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God.”

What we need in the United States is not division. What we need in the United States is not hatred. What we need in the United States is not violence and lawlessness, but is love and wisdom and compassion toward one another, and a feeling of justice toward those who still suffer within our country...

We can do well in this country. We will have difficult times. We’ve had difficult times in the past. And we will have difficult times in the future.... But the vast majority of ... people in this country want to live together, want to improve the quality of our life, and want justice for all human beings that abide in our land.

Let us dedicate ourselves to what the Greeks wrote so many years ago: to tame the savageness of man and make gentle the life of this world. Let us dedicate ourselves to that, and say a prayer for our country and for our people."
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 1:32 PM on November 14 [2 favorites]

If you go to the bad place (xitter), there are posts like "Trump Nominates Yersinia Pestis for Secretary of Health and Human Services"

RFK is basically worse.

Read about what RFK is actually about here from Derek Lowe (who is probably having an an aneurysm, like me, on this news)
posted by lalochezia at 1:58 PM on November 14 [2 favorites]

I think part of the reason I'm just finding the cabinet nominations funny instead of terrifying is because this shit is exactly what i expect from Il Douche. We know he appoints sycophants, dim bulbs and toadies because that's what he did last time. We know almost none of these people will last longer than it takes for him to get annoyed with them or for him to toss them under the bus for whatever reasons. The disaster was that he got elected and everything that follows is just the expected fecal avalanche. There is nobody he could appoint that is so bad and nothing that he could do that is so awful that it will surprise me anymore.

What I find most hilarious is that the only possible thing between him and all his worst instincts is a republican majority congress. Sadly, I think the most resistance we'll ultimately get from them is expressions of concern and disappointment from Senator Susan Collins.

Make plans in your sphere about how you're going to get by without any support from the fed - indeed make plans for how your going to get by with a fed that is actively trying to prevent you from getting by. We survive our here in the bush by helping each other.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:07 PM on November 14

This wasthe plan of upper middle class Russians when put putin was re-elected. "Use your limited wealth and connections to try and opt out of the klepto/kaki state.". It went about as well for them as it will for us.
posted by lalochezia at 3:12 PM on November 14

You are not currently logged in. Log in or create a new account to post comments.