BR - wisdom in verse, not vogon...

Psalms group read

Here are links to all our previous threads.

from le Salon:
Prep: http://www.librarything.com/topic/127545
Genesis: http://www.librarything.com/topic/129966
Exodus: http://www.librarything.com/topic/131811
Leviticus: http://www.librarything.com/topic/133405
Numbers: http://www.librarything.com/topic/135184
Deuteronomy: www.librarything.com/topic/136380
Joshua: http://www.librarything.com/topic/137927
Judges (same thread as Joshua, starts on post #69): http://www.librarything.com/topic/137927#3452932
Ruth (same thread as Joshua, starts on post #142): http://www.librarything.com/topic/137927#3478722
1 & 2 Samuel: http://www.librarything.com/topic/139684
1 & 2 Kings: http://www.librarything.com/topic/142552
1 & 2 Chronicles: http://www.librarything.com/topic/146697
Ezra and Nehemiah: http://www.librarything.com/topic/154880
Tobit & Judith: http://www.librarything.com/topic/159435

from Club Read:
Ester http://www.librarything.com/topic/168909
Job: https://www.librarything.com/topic/171374

This thread is intended for a group read starting Sep 1.

But, so you know, the thread has a problem up front, which is me. I actually started reading the Psalms in March (March 14, to be exact) and read through Psalm 118, where I stopped (on May 8) and haven't been able to bring myself back to reading them again. I tend to picture reading them in this way:



I may simply be the wrong person to be reading Psalms. I'm not a religious believer and that may be enough to make me unable to read these....although I haven't had anything like this problem in any previous section of reading the bible so far. If anyone reading this has some helpful advise, please post.

I took 29 pages of notes during that two month stretch. I'm hoping to type up some of that below in some coherent and usable form. But, no promises.

Note that there is no specific translation being used in the group read. I used Robert Alter's translation (The Book of Psalms: A Translation with Commentary), but I think it's terrible. Also I have used the NRSV, which I found fine. I tried the Jerusalem Bible, but it didn't add anything and three was too many translations for my patience.

Way back in March of 2013 dcozy linked us to Eliot Weinberger's thrashing of Robert Alter's Psalms translation: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v30/n02/eliot-weinberger/praise-yah

Yaaaaaay back to the Bible! I'm not a believer either but I remember reading Psalms from a poetics perspective (especially, the development of metaphor) in third year and while the details are long forgotten, it was an enjoyable experience. What was the specific issue?

I just have to finish Vanity Fair and then I will be joining in with the Alter translation, thrashing or no.

I have dipped into the Psalms, beyond the 23rd, many times over the years, but I haven't read them all, nor have I read them straight through. I hope that I can participate here. Even if I can't, I'll be following attentively.

Robert

I was trying to work through the Psalms in Hebrew a few years ago, and found Alter very helpful.

If you need inspiration as to why to read the Psalms, I recommend Tom Wright's The case for the Psalms

I'm a bit worried about reading Psalms myself. I am not a reader of poetry, and so far the poetical bits of the Bible have done nothing for me. Too obscure and confusing. So a whole collection of them... this will probably take some time.

I think I will read the NRSV translation. This is how I ended up reading and enjoying Job.

My experience of many of them is that I got most reading them as prayers or exhortations. "God, hide not thy face far from me..." I don't do poetry well, but I have not found that to be a stumbling block in the Psalms, although I have usually taken them on one or two at a time, sometimes prompted by life circumstances that I wanted them to protect me from.

Robert

>8 MarthaJeanne: thanks! I will consider this. I've bee trying to avoid religious takes on the bible as we read through, but I might consider an exception here.

>9 FlorenceArt: I loved Job. I thought the poetry was terrific in places, the best writing in the bible I have encountered so far. But the psalms are different. Job challenges the reader. The psalms, as far I could get from them, do not.

>6 MeditationesMartini: welcome Martin. As usual, time isn't much an issue, just an excuse to make some kind of reading plan.

>7 Mr.Durick: glad to have to you R.

>10 Mr.Durick: not being able to use them this way puts up a stumbling block for me. Maybe I just need to have more of an open mind. But, they comes up again and again in literature in religious settings where the provide comfort.

(By the way, nice thread title Dan :-)

>12 dchaikin: Dan, I don't use the Bible, the I Ching, or any other sacred books as spell books or fortune tellers, but a Psalm asking God to take me into his tent to protect me can be a comfort even as there is no apotropaic value in it. My spiritual practice has several sources, but the one that tells me how to pray, after taking care of some construction, tells me to pray only for knowledge of God's will for me and the power to carry that out; so the prayers are not mine, per se. And I can see how my fellows, of even two or three millennia ago, needed comfort in the same way — I guess that that is a poetic truth.

Robert

Would love to participate here — pagan that I am!

Somewhere I read an intro to the Psalms that explains the various functions of different Psalms. I should try to find that and see if it would be helpful. At the moment I am drawing a blank.

A structural overview

The psalms are prayers in the forms of songs, or hymns. The world "psalm" derives from Greek word for "song" (well, more specifically, it implies word accompanying music) The Hebrew title (Tehilim) translates as "hymns" or "songs of praise".

There are five basics collections within the Psalms with conventional numbering at 150. (Alter will argue to combine parts, and split parts there. Sometimes it seems like common sense, and other times his specific explanations are weak.)

1. Psalms 1 - 41
2. Psalms 42 - 72
3. Psalms 73 - 89
4. Psalms 90 - 106
5. Psalms 107 - 150.

Psalms 1 & 2 are a prologue. Each section closes with a doxology or benediction. (Doxologies are 41:13, 72:18-19, 89:52, 106:48 & 150:1-6) The significance of the divisions is unclear. To some extent it indicates that five separate sources were grouped together. Five parts also mimics the five books of the Torah, so possibly they were simply made to be five parts, regardless of their origins. But all that is lost to conjecture.

General overview:

wikipedia is a good basic source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psalms

From Robert Alter
Alter likes point out the historical origins. Namely that the Psalms adopt language used in earlier, non-Israelite songs, such as those of Ugarit, Egyptian, Mesopotamian and Syro-Canaanite sources. And he looks for references to Baal that are still in the text. Baal was Canaanite warrior god who conquered a monstrous sea god representing chaos. So, Baal was order conquering chaos. Several names might refer back to that Canaanite sea god, including Leviathan, Rahab, Yamm & Tanin. Baal's representation was as a cloud chariot with lightning bolts. All these references are found in the psalms and may preserve this Canaanite origin.

David's psalms
A lot of psalms are headed with l'dawid and so are called David's psalm, mythological written by David. Alter hatest that points out the title could mean of David, or for David or in memory of David. But psalm titles can often be very specific and yet without clear reference to the text. So, make of them what you will. They are there. Other given authors include Asaph, Ethan the Ezrahite, Heyman the Ezrahite and the Korahites.

more later

Beatus page from a medieval psalter

As you know, in Latin the first psalm begins with a "B", and quite often illuminated medieval psalters began with a full page initial "B". I tried to find a good example and this is the best I could do.

Beatus vir: Blessed is the man . . .

That's beautiful. What is that example from?

Dan, I am not sure which illuminated manuscript it is from. It is a picture I found on the web but they did not attribute it. If I stumble across more info, I'll let you know.

Alter says the psalms were composed over several centuries and were probably compiled in the 5th or 4th century BCE - but he doesn't have any good reasons for those dates and time periods. wikipedia says "The composition of the psalms spans at least five centuries, from Psalm 29, adapted from early Canaanite worship, to others which are clearly from the post-Exilic period," but I'm not sure that's any more reliable.

Alter tries to point out some relationships between the five books of psalms. Books one & two have two duplicate psalms (one duplicate is 14 & 53, and the other is 40:14-18 and 70). He feels that books 1-3 three are somehow so fundamentally different (his word is "independent") from books 4 & 5.

73 psalms are listed as David psalms. There are also Asaph psalms, Songs of ascents and Hallelujah psalms.

On the Poetry
Psalm poetry is characterized by parallelism in sets of two or three lines. One term used is "semantic-Syntactic-accentual parallelism" (from Hrushovsk), but all that means is the parallelism can be (1) in the form of parallel meaning (2) in the form of parallel stressed syllables or (3) in the form of parallel syntax. In each case the second line reinforces or heightens the sense or meaning of the first line by repeating, or makes the meaning more concrete. The parallelism can be synonymous or contrasting. So, to be better understood, the lines need to be read in relation to each other.

Psalms avoid startling the reader (unlike Job). They always use a set of stock imagery. Alter claims originality is in how the familiar imagery in reworked.

If your reading Alter then you will notice two annoying things he does on purpose. He doesn't use the words "soul" or "salvation". The Hebrew word for soul is the same work for neck or throat - and sometimes Alter will translate with neck or throat. Usually he uses "life breath" but I have no idea why that's any better than soul. In any case, the English can't replicate an interesting dual meaning in Hebrew. Instead of salvation, he uses "rescue" which just doesn't work aesthetically. It's a fail he insists on - it's very annoying and, quite frankly, confusing, as the word doesn't belong this kind of language.

For the NRSV I'm using the Harper Collins Study Bible which has extensive notes, even if they are often not that interesting, or miss many interesting key points. The list many types of psalms, something Alter mentions, but avoids putting weight on.

types:
Laments - prayers for help
- commonly for sickness, adversity, betrayal, abandonment, sin, guilt, slander, false accusation, persecution, oppression, communal disaster & military defeat.
songs of praise - which include songs of thanksgiving hymns to god
life instructions
Royal psalms
And: liturgies of thanksgiving, liturgies of entry into sanctuary, of trust, exalting Zion, enthronement of god and didactic psalms.

Of they come across to me this way. A psalm says how great the Lord is, and what wonderful things he has done, then says how bad my life is and please could help. When I'm jaded, it all seems like slimy begging - butter up the god, then beg for a tiny bit of help from his majesty.

In any case the HCSB seems to conclude that it's unclear in what various ways the psalms may originally have been used.

HCSB doesn't give a date, but does say the oldest psalms appear to be 18, 29 & 68.

Very interesting background, Dan. Some of this sounds familiar and parallels what I have read.

BTW, I am stuck on the King James version, and I use The New Oxford Annotated Bible, NRSV which has pretty good notes and I usually appreciate the second translation which seems to clarify the meaning. I also have a three-volume set of 6th century Cassiodorus's Explanation of the Psalms, which is rather quaint and makes for a fascinating window into the mind of a medieval Christian writer, which I have not looked at recently but I ought to dig it out. It is good for study of individual psalms.

Once upon a time I was amassing the volumes of The Anchor Bible. The Psalms section was three volumes long, and the middle volume, if I remember correctly, was out of print. Yale took over the series, and apparently my subscription, or their provision of a subscription, faded away.

So at hand now for the Psalms I have Alter's book and The New Jerusalem Bible. I have read the introductory matter and the first two Psalms. I may never have read 2 before, but I like the Socratic faith of 1 — the promise that virtue gives. I'm not sure that I believe it, but I aim to live my life that way, come up short though I may.

Robert

>23 Mr.Durick: I too was taken by the first Psalm. It first came to my attention when I was studying illuminated manuscripts and learned about how the decorated initial "B" often occupied an entire introductory page. And I endorse your sentiment regarding "the promise that virtue gives. I'm not sure that I believe it, but I aim to live my life that way, come up short though I may." That perfectly encapsulates my own feelings about the psalm.

I know I don't have it in me to keep thread alive, but a new puppy and my father's sudden open-heart surgery didn't help (My father is doing well, and the pup, Pepper, is quite a joy).

I don't like Ps1. I can appreciate it has some more creative use of language, but it just comes across as too didactic for me. I do like Ps3 - well at least the first 6 verses before the speaker gets all blood thirsty (symbolic as that may be).

from my notes:
psalm 1
- i like this line: "but the Lord's teaching is his desire"
- this preaches distributive justice (as do all psalms) - which is what Job rejects

Psalm 2
- putting kings in their place under the Lord by having the Lord laugh at their efforts to defy him.

Psalm 3
- we'll see variations on the theme of doubting the silent god...but only momentarily. Here: "many are saying to me, ‘There is no help for you in God.’"
- this works well if we imagine David speaking.

Psalm 4
- Answer me... / How long... - you will find a lot of this. HarperCollins calls this a supplication (or a lament), but it seems to be about loss of honor and shame rather than all the dreadful things I listed in post 2.

Psalm 5
- I kind of feel for the speaker until the "because" in verse 8, then it starts to feel petty, a he-said-she-said complaint.
- This order comes up a lot: (1) listen to me (2) you, Lord, are great (a little subdued here) (3) I praise you (4) OK, here's what I need from you...
- Alter notes the speaker lays their self down like an offering, or a sacrifice
- Romans and Paul both quote "their throats are open graves, they smooth with their tongue". I think this the dual meaning throat/soul word, not sure though.

Oops, I need to start reading again. Thanks for the reminder Dan!

Not surprisingly I'm not very impressed by psalms either. From the 15 or so I have read so far, one or two have moved me a little with their plea for help, one or two have disgusted me with the call to annihilate the speaker's enemies, and most just don't do anything for me. I agree with you about the whining aspect which gets a bit annoying.

OK, it's the start of the weekend and I don't have to go out for a few hours. I'll try to read a few more.

And best wishes to your father, and a cuddle to the puppy.

Psalm 18: a Psalm of thanksgiving from a King after a victory. In verses 7-19 the Lord makes a very impressive apparition with full special effects, what Harper Collins calls "typical storm-god imagery".

Psalms 18:7-8
7 Then the earth reeled and rocked;
the foundations also of the mountains trembled
and quaked, because he was angry.
8 Smoke went up from his nostrils,
and devouring fire from his mouth;
glowing coals flamed forth from him.

FYI - quick link to NRSV psalms: http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=277664340

>26 FlorenceArt: - only 135 more psalms to go. :)
>27 FlorenceArt: - thanks for posting - I find this one of the most interesting and ancient sounding parts of the psalms.

Psalm 6
- the first of the penitential psalm or psalms of confession - Psalms 6, 32, 38, 51, 102, 130, and 143 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penitential_Psalms )
- I find this one moving...up until the last verse
- interesting how sickness and being chastised by God are intermingled here. It's not clear which is meant, of whether both should be meant.
- HarperCollins sees references to Samuel here

Psalm 7
"Rise up, O Lord, in your anger;
lift yourself up against the fury of my enemies;
awake, O my God; you have appointed a judgement. "
- supplication, but some elaborate imagery here
- verse 3 implies this whole psalm is about an accusation the speaker claims is false

Psalm 8
"When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers,
the moon and the stars that you have established;
what are human beings that you are mindful of them,
mortals that you care for them? "
- the last verse quote above (v4) is mocked in Job 7:17
- v2 "silence the enemy and the avenger' - Alter sees this as a creation reference and as something carried over from Canaanite imagery. The enemy & avenger would be Leviathan, or the god of chaos.

Psalms 9 & 10
These psalms form a single alphabetical acrostic and are considered to have originally been a single psalm. Other than that I don't find them very interesting.

Psalm 11
no useful notes, but I find this one intriguingly rhythmic.

Psalm 12
again no useful notes, but I find this one romantic in a way. The world is an awful place full of awful people, but god is pure.

psalm 13
- how long...
- This seems nice reading it now.

psalm 14
- people suck, we are all perverse and godless
- "Fools say in their hearts, ‘There is no God.’" - quoted in Romans 3:10-12
- this psalm is repeated as psalm 53

psalm 15
- HarperCollins see this as likely a liturgy to recite before entry into the temple - maybe something priest would recite basically claiming (or hoping) to be righteous themselves

Psalm 16
Alter sees this as possibly an inscription on a temple. Again the speaker claims righteousness and criticizes those who fail.
- V4 "Those who choose another god multiply their sorrows;
their drink-offerings of blood I will not pour out
or take their names upon my lips. "
- V4 may be reference to and criticism of other forms of worship seen as improper in some way

Finally started on Psalms! I've forgotten which of the early ones it is now, and unaccountably can't seem to locate it, but I liked "fat covers their hearts" best. I am reading Alter, and Dan, I think you are right about the baselessness or at least unsupportedness of some of his assertions and translation choices. I don't find most of the stock images particularly compelling, and although I'd like to imagine the bodily concreteness of "neck" being more appropriate than "soul" in some cases, I don't know that he demonstrates this. I've been happy with Alter until now, so I hope I don't have similar difficulties to yours here. Overall the tone seems a bit, well, belligerent. Garrulously belligerent.

So why doesn't Psalms get our blood up the way Job does?

Because most of them are either whining about enemies, or calling for their blood?

Because they don't tell much of a story?

Because you need at least some experience of religious feeling to relate to them? (Speaking strictly for myself here.)

That said, I still haven't gotten further than 19. I probably shouldn't judge so early.

>33 MeditationesMartini: Don't even start with me on Job! Nice review, by the way. But there are certain psalms that speak to me either through the familiarity of florid language or the thought encapsulated. I need to do some rereading, but to date, Psalms 1 and 23 — for entirely different reasons — are the ones that still resonate for me.

And after further reflection, it is difficult to articulate exactly why a certain psalm hits home. As with a lot of poetry, one's reaction is quite personal and complicated and trying to explain requires some self-revelation that one may not want to engage in.

>34 FlorenceArt: But I think, Florence, you may be onto something. Your points are very well taken.

Psalm don't challenge anything. They are conventional. They can be comforting, but the won't engage you. Also they get repetitive...

Job flirts with rebellion. But also he searches out new ways of expression and emotion. He can shed a new light on things.

>35 Poquette: Psalm 23 does sound very familiar and comforting. And behold, it's not about enemies!

>37 FlorenceArt: Psalm 23 has been set to music by innumerable composers, most notably Bach and Schubert. But the version I grew up with, and which probably explains my affinity for this psalm, can be heard here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d7lJq5JZio

This version takes some liberties with the words, but the essence is still there.

The Schubert version is very beautiful also. It is sung in German:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFcLRI4JWDY

>35 Poquette: hey thanks! I liked your Herodotus review too:)

I kind of agree with you, but I don't think I've beenable to sustain that feeling through a whole psalm (they always get to the "whining about enemies or calling for their blood," which turns me off, increasingly in a kneejerk way--and I'm only a sixth of the way through!). But individual lines, and not only the familiar ones, hit like bam! "When evildoers draw near me to eat my flesh … they trip and they fall" (Psalm 27) is, you know, rapworthy.

That's a good one! ;-)

Guys, Psalm 29.

Hot tip.

Nice one!

I like the way it intensively develops a single symbol (or cluster of symbols) throughout, which few of them do.

Interesting observation, MM. Your comment sent me to my annotated NKJV which points out that in the very first line he is addressing "O you mighty ones," namely the angels. I missed that completely. And here is a connection to Job 1:6 "which also describes the angels who are in the presence of God."

Apparently this psalm is quite reflective of Canaanite poetry. There's a lot of interesting stuff in the commentary here. The repetitive reference to "the voice of the Lord" is supposed to represent "rapidly succeeding peals of thunder. In that context it informs the picture of the breaking and splintering of the cedars.

Yes, it's probably "typical storm god" stuff like Psalm 18, but more subtle. HarperCollins points out how the poem follows the storm as it starts over the Mediterranean, moves inland to Lebanon and then dies in the Syrian desert.

Oh, interesting, on both counts! It makes me wonder if the, like, logo-demiurgic quality of Genesis ("and the Word was with God, and the Word was God") bears any relevance to the Canaanite mythology, and the LORD's voice that speaks the world into being is also, here, in a sense unmaking it (from the ocean to the desert) precisely in that it is removed of its semanticity, reduced to a rolling thunder, a roar. Sorry, I got lost in that sentence--I meant, I wonder if the Word as creative applies in the Canaanite mythos too, or if this is a piece of beautiful bluster (typical storm god stuff) that got adopted wholesale into the Judaic tradition and took on a whole new meaning in that new context.

Martini - you're mixing in new testament stuff. That's quote comes from John (?) Not that this answers your question...

Aw, crud. Well, the voice of God rolling over the waters does still echo Genesis. And, the "and God said, and God said, and God said."

I think the creative power of the word is a general theme, at least in Middle-Eastern traditions. By naming things, you separate them from the original chaos and bring order to the world. You find stuff like that in Egyptian and Babylonian myths I believe.

Thanks, that's interesting. Reading some of those would probably provide excellent context for the OT.

Psalm 69. Guys, the tension in this one.

69? Wow, I'm way behind! In fact I quite forget to read those until you nudge me. Thank you!

Also, rereading my post 50, I'm not so sure now of what I said. Egyptians and Babylonian myths have the separation from chaos, but using the word to do it, not so sure, it may be only in the Bible. I do remember from reading Egyptian legends when I was a teenager, that naming things, or knowing their true name, gives you power over them.

>52 MeditationesMartini: I just remembered about the different numbering between the Hebrew Bible and the Christian Bible. I have only Christian Bibles. I obviously cannot figure out which way the numbering changes. So just to clarify, are you speaking of

68. "Let God arise, let His enemies be scattered; let those who hate Him flee before Him."

or

69 "Save me, O God, for the waters have come up to my neck."

or

70. "Make haste, O God, to deliver me. Make Haste to help me, O Lord!"

And an exemplary verse of what you mean, please, just so we are on the same page. Thx ;-)

>54 Poquette: different numbering! I didn't know that. I am speaking of 69, the waters, which is also 69 in my version (Alter's). And, well, that first line is a great example. The harrowing immediacy. The waters up to the neck, the mire closing in, the throat failing.

If I have this correctly - the waters come up to my neck is a euphemism for dying. The water representing encroaching death and the neck also meaning the soul.

Mm-hm. One of the many places where the neck/breath/soul bundle is problematic in the English.

>55 MeditationesMartini: Thanks! Good to know our numbers add up! Also, now I get what you were referring to. I am so bad at understanding what poetry is about, even supposedly easy stuff like the psalms! I apparently need a lot of help. :-[

Martin - your hot tips crack me up

I'm reading actually enjoying the psalms of Ascent- psalms 120 - 134 (although I could do without psalms 127, 128 and 129). They have the benefit of being short, concise and to the point, which I prefer for this stuff.

From ps 131:
But I have calmed and quieted my soul

Just read Psalms 132 - 144 and i actually liked parts of psalm 139 (hot tip??).

Ps 139 has Job references and in the words of Alter includes "a meditation of God's searching knowledge, of mens inner most thoughts, and on the limitations of human knowledge, and on God's inescapable presence..." Or, in my words, eloquent expressions about an all-knowing God... Well, or a stalker god, ; )

Other highlights, or lowlights, or just theologically problematic lines include Ps 137, where the speakers hope for revenge against Babylon includes that God "take your little ones and dash them against the rock"; And Ps 138, v1, which says about the Lord, "before the gods I sign your praise."

Way behind you at psalm 49, but I did try to make some progress this weekend, and I was thinking how many of the psalms tackle the same problem as Job does, but mostly they take the same stance as Job's "friends": if something bad happens to you, it's your own fault for offending God.

Also, is it me or do some of them hint at an afterlife? It seems to me that's the whole point of psalm 49:

" 14 Like sheep they are appointed for Sheol;
Death shall be their shepherd;
straight to the grave they descend,
and their form shall waste away;
Sheol shall be their home.
15 But God will ransom my soul from the power of Sheol,
for he will receive me."

>61 FlorenceArt: Seems like a strong hint to me. I think the psalms for the most part do not deal in any coherent way with the afterlife. In contradiction, when the speaker asks God to keep them alive so they can continue to praise god, they clearly don't see themselves in heaven singing eternal hymns.

Yes, despite those occasional hints, most of the psalms are intent on negotiating god's intervention here and now. The "psalmist" as HarperCollins calls him, by which I take to mean the narrator, or the person who is meant to recite or sing the psalm, reminds God that they have kept their side of the bargain, and why doesn't He keep His and smite their enemies? Or, much more rarely, admits that they may have been a bit lacking but ask for god's forgiveness, and while He's at it some smiting would be nice too.

Read the last six and ... I'm done! Woot!

Congrats! Still crawling along, psalm 54 now. I should probably skip to the hot tips.

Well, I'm only to about 20, and I'm not very much cross referencing translations and commentary.

Robert

I have, so far, 35 pages of notes on the psalms, which is too much for me to even re-read, much less write.

Anyway, as I went along, I starred various psalms for reasons of interest, usually because I liked them, or they stood out in some way. I starred fourteen (~10%):

23, 29, 31, 51, 68, 77, 82, 90, 93,100, 120 (for this I may have meant all the Song of Ascents, 120-134), 130, 131, 139

I guess that's my own hot tip list. Now, if I could just figure out why I starred them...

Psalm 23:4
"Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil"

Like, from Pulp Fiction: (linked here)

Psalm 29 - link to text
This is one of the older psalms showering god in words like "splendor" & "powerful". It's notable because it's kind of cool, and because it seems to rich in Baal imagery. The opening line sounds polytheistic ("Ascribe to the Lord, O heavenly beings"). When it says, "The Lord sits enthroned over the flood", this could have many meanings, including a reference to the dead, but it also appears to be a reference of God conquering chaos (the flood), just as Baal conquered the chaos of the sea.

Psalm 31 is noteworthy because it contains Jesus's last words, which I find very moving in that NT context: (v5) "Into your hand I commit my spirit; you have redeemed me, O Lord, faithful God."

Psalm 51 - link to text
One of seven penitential psalms, which I find noteworthy. I find these some how striking in how different they are in emotion from the other psalms. They are spread out, which makes each one stand out a bit. Penitential psalms: 6, 32, 38, 51, 102, 130, and 143

Psalm 51 has two lines prominent in Jewish services:

(v11)
Do not cast me away from your presence,
and do not take your holy spirit from me.

(v15)
O Lord, open my lips,
so my mouth will declare your glory.

V11, is used in the Jewish Yom Kippur service, and is, according to the psalms, the worst thing God can do. V15 is used in weekly Shabbat services.

>59 dchaikin: yes! I just got to the psalms of ascent and there's (almost) nothing about "foes" and haters" and psalm 126 honest-to-god made me tear up a little. "Those who sow with tears will reap with songs of joy / Those who go out weeping, carrying seed to sow, / will return with songs of joy, carrying sheaves with them."

And yeah, psalm 139 was nice. Forget god-is-everywhere-watching-you-from-sky-castle, more like god-is-everywhere-present-even-at-my-conception, present especially where miracles happen, present because miracles happen because he is present.

The only one ovelapping between our lists is Psalm 82--I thought it was great how instead of "my foes" the psalmist turns to some worthier adversaries here for a man underwritten by the LORD: the other gods, not considered false here but just kind of low-qual. It roots it in idols or fetsh-objects for me: the Hebrews flip the script, say "your god is in that medallion! So lame! Our god is everywhere!" but surely what they hear all the time from the others is something like "your god is "everywhere"? Oh yeah, that's real believable. Your imaginary friend is trumped by my god, who is in this medallion!" Probably whoever won the wars that day just went home well pleased with themselves and their established practice.

I also liked psalm 78, a potted poetic summary of Genesis–Exodus; psalm 80, the growing vine as metaphor for the growing nation; psalm 85, tho I can't remember why. Psalm 119 was bad (yap yap yap), as were sundry others.

Oh, and let us not forget the melancholy but soothing psalm 137.

And now I'm done too!

>69 MeditationesMartini: Funny that you should mention Psalm 82. (I wrote the following before seeing your post.)

Inadvertently — no, serendipitously — I too have stumbled into Psalm 82. This so fits in with my current mini-obsession with dream visions!

There I was reading Chaucer's House of Fame, which is in fact a report of a dream vision.

    This egleº, of which I have yow tolde               eagle
    That shoon with fethres as of golde,
    Which that so high gan to soreº,                 soar
    I gan beholde more and more
    To see the beautee and the wonder;
    But never was ther dintº of thonder,               clap, stroke
    Ne that thing that men calle foudreº,               lightning
    That smootº somtyme a tourº to poudreº           smote/tower/powder

This reference to a lightning-struck tower caused me to wonder where Chaucer got that notion. I won't bore you with the details of a largely fruitless search, except to say that I was led back to the story of the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:1-9), and in an article expounding thereupon, discovered that one interpretation suggests that God's objection to the tower — which is not stated in Genesis, by the way — was that it implied a planned attack on Heaven. A footnote cryptically suggests a connection with Psalm 82. (As an aside, see also Milton Paradise Lost and Philip Pullman, His Dark Materials.)

According to the commentary, this so-called wisdom psalm is actually a vision of God in council with lesser, small 'g' gods. He chastises them for their injustices to the needy and oppressed, and then condemns them to death like any earthly beings for malfeasance in office.

This perhaps implies rebelliousness among the lesser deities, which in turn suggests that by condemning them to mortality, God was heading off a possibility of an attack similar to that which might be the source of God's displeasure in the incident of the Tower of Babel.

I quite like this Psalm 82. It is so compact, so well-crafted as a vision in miniature. And it all takes place in the heaven of the poet's imagination — not to mention mine! It seems to be unique among the psalms in this regard.

According to the commentary, this so-called wisdom psalm is actually a vision of God in council with lesser, small 'g' gods. He chastises them for their injustices to the needy and oppressed, and then condemns them to death like any earthly beings for malfeasance in office.

This perhaps implies rebelliousness among the lesser deities, which in turn suggests that by condemning them to mortality, God was heading off a possibility of an attack similar to that which might be the source of God's displeasure in the incident of the Tower of Babel.

SO COOL. Götterdämmerung.

I like Ps 82 quite a bit, especially verse 5. But the whole thing is just a fun set-up, comparing the Hebrew God to other God's and giving the Hebrew God a chance to have his say on the matter.

I like verse 5 for a complicated set of reasons - but I like how it touches on what we all deal with when unqualified people have power over important things in our lives

They have neither knowledge nor understanding,
they walk around in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

So, the gods are clueless, walking around blind (in darkness), a bunch of dumb idiots. Funny in a way. But these are Gods, and there are consequences to their incompetence - it threatens the world at its foundations, existence itself maybe. Their comical incompetence is actually quite evil.

>69 MeditationesMartini: ps 119 is the longest chapter in the bible - 176 lines (of insignificance, IMHO).

I didn't like Ps 85 as you did. My notes say simply, "forgive and restore us, again." Think I was a bit annoyed. :)

Psalm 68 - I like this one because it sounds old, with Baal references, and seems obscurely based on real history or myth. It captures my historical curiosity in the same way the Song of Deborah does -- and it has two references to the Song of Deborah: v12 & 13, which are reminiscent of the Song of Deborah, and v28, which references the same tribes as those in the Song of Deborah.

compare:
from Judges 5

v22
‘Then loud beat the horses’ hoofs
with the galloping, galloping of his steeds.

v28-30
28 ‘Out of the window she peered,
the mother of Sisera gazed through the lattice:
“Why is his chariot so long in coming?
Why tarry the hoofbeats of his chariots?”
29 Her wisest ladies make answer,
indeed, she answers the question herself:
30 “Are they not finding and dividing the spoil?—
A girl or two for every man;
spoil of dyed stuffs for Sisera,
spoil of dyed stuffs embroidered,
two pieces of dyed work embroidered for my neck as spoil?”

and from Ps68

v12 & 13
12 ‘The kings of the armies, they flee, they flee!’
The women at home divide the spoil,
13 though they stay among the sheepfolds—
the wings of a dove covered with silver,
its pinions with green gold.

Further, ps 68 has a number of interesting lines. "Wings of the Dove", from v13, is the title of a Henry James novel.

Other interesting lines:

v4 for the god who rides the clouds

4 Sing to God, sing praises to his name;
lift up a song to him who rides upon the clouds—

v15 & 16 on the mountain and abode of the god of the defeated being jealous of the Hebrew god's mount Sinai

15 O mighty mountain, mountain of Bashan;
O many-peaked mountain, mountain of Bashan!
16 Why do you look with envy, O many-peaked mountain,
at the mount that God desired for his abode,
where the Lord will reside for ever?

v21-23 just for the gore

21 But God will shatter the heads of his enemies,
the hairy crown of those who walk in their guilty ways.
22 The Lord said,
‘I will bring them back from Bashan,
I will bring them back from the depths of the sea,
23 so that you may bathe your feet in blood,
so that the tongues of your dogs may have their share from the foe.’

I'm in great danger of overwhelming everyone with my posting on this stuff... (if haven't already with the last three posts...

Psalm 77
Insomnia meditations. The anxiety - causing insomnia - and then the necessary wondering thoughts caught my attention.

4 You keep my eyelids from closing;
I am so troubled that I cannot speak.
5 I consider the days of old,
and remember the years of long ago.
6 I commune with my heart in the night;
I meditate and search my spirit:
7 ‘Will the Lord spurn for ever,
and never again be favourable?
8 Has his steadfast love ceased for ever?
Are his promises at an end for all time?
9 Has God forgotten to be gracious?
Has he in anger shut up his compassion?’

Verses 16-20 are also interesting - a varied description of God conquering the waters, which is a reference to chaos, and also a reference to Baal's pre-Biblical victory over the chaotic waters.

Psalm 90
A meditation on time & mortality - or divine time verse human time. It's a little touching when in tries to capture the anxiety this causes and begs God to allow us to come to terms with this.

3 You turn us back to dust,
and say, ‘Turn back, you mortals.’
4 For a thousand years in your sight
are like yesterday when it is past,
or like a watch in the night.

5 You sweep them away; they are like a dream,
like grass that is renewed in the morning;
6 in the morning it flourishes and is renewed;
in the evening it fades and withers.

7 For we are consumed by your anger;
by your wrath we are overwhelmed.
8 You have set our iniquities before you,
our secret sins in the light of your countenance.

9 For all our days pass away under your wrath;
our years come to an end like a sigh.
10 The days of our life are seventy years,
or perhaps eighty, if we are strong;
even then their span is only toil and trouble;
they are soon gone, and we fly away.

11 Who considers the power of your anger?
Your wrath is as great as the fear that is due to you.
12 So teach us to count our days
that we may gain a wise heart.

Verse 12 means some like help us acknowledge our limits and mortality, and gain a proper perspective. Implied is, help us come to terms with all this so we don't need to be consumed by anger (and anxiety).

Psalm 93
I have no idea why I highlighted this psalm. Maybe the God over the waters/chaos thing. Anyway, next...

Psalm 100
And again, I don't know why I highlighted it. Maybe I was in a mood (I highlighted 90, 93 & 100), maybe it stood out from those around it because it's so short. My notes say, "'Thanksgiving Psalm' Short & simple - I like this one." Anyway, next...

That's all of the highlighted ones from me. (I covered 120, 130, 131 and 139 above.)

One summary is that I think the psalms are primarily designed to be comforting, not thought provoking. They are to rest the mind, presumably in anguish of some kind, even if that anguish is merely mental wanderings on mortality.

And, for this reason my favorite line comes from ps 131, a desire pertinent for our current world: But I have calmed and quieted my soul

>77 dchaikin: no! This is good. Especially with psalms, with all the repetition and eyeglazingness, seeing what you pulled out makes me realize some things I failed to really process. Viz. psalm 77, insomnia

Enjoyed your review, Martini (link here)

To self advertise, I added my own review both to my CR thread and the Alter translation book page.

One thing that strikes me is the high number of psalms that speak of being besieged, or harassed, by enemies. I get the sense that this can apply to individuals or to the Hebrew people, and you could almost substitute one for the other in any of the psalms.

I assume that is intended as formulaic with symbolic meaning - besieging meaning just that the world is giving me problems. Or, perhaps the meaning is more specific somehow, or maybe each variation has a specific meaning. The point may be to relate to David when he was besieged at various times. But, really, it could just mean something like - I'm so busy doing my job and trying make the family happy and get ahead that I haven't been to worship in ages and, worse, I don't even miss it.forgive me, I'm spiritually besieged by life.

Ah, I hadn't thought of that. I took it in a literal sense. Interesting.

It could also be a political device. Danger from enemies is a great way to keep a nation united and faithful. Maybe the references to David can also be seen in that light.

Maybe it should be taken literally. ???

>84 dchaikin: hey, I liked your review too! Thanks for giving how annoying these psalms were equal airtime as I did. I think the whining about foes and slander is almost all I will remember.

So what's next?

Proverbs. I'm thinking December.

Solid.

Cool! I'll try to finish the psalms by then. Oh wait, December is next Monday, right? I'd better get going.

Yes, Monday. But i'm guessing you'll catch up to us if you keep working through the psalms. Just don't put them down for 5 or 6 months like i did.

And...i'll need to start a thread. Out of town for the holidays, so I expect to be late on that. Any suggestions for a thread name? Wisdoms in slogan form?

Call it "Egyptian Wisdom."

Robert

>95 Mr.Durick: Do we get an explanation?

Well I think that it is one of the wisdom books that derives from Egyptian literature of the time. But it has been taken as native to the Jewish people. There is a little irony in my suggestion, but there is also a little recognition of the universality of wisdom.

It is a long time since I read Proverbs. As I remember it condemns me; I cherish sleep.

Robert

Ha! - maybe we should call it universal chiding.

Are proverbs poems, or just wise sayings? I'm not very good with poetry I think. Lack of practice.

I don't know enough yet. The whole book may be two line sayings.

Proverbs is up and running: https://www.librarything.com/topic/183854

Winter break is finally here -- one of my goals is Psalms. Hope it's not too late.

You're not too late and you can only help. : )

The Psalms were (and presently are) tough on most of us. Curious on your take.

I would really like to read them through. I never have. I've spent the whole quarter doing Hebrew reading in Hosea, which has left me in great need of psalms of praise and consolation!

There is praise, but I'm not so sure about consolation. Maybe I missed it. Plenty of smiting of enemies (or wishing for it) and whining about said enemies.

I have barely passed the midway mark I think. How many are there again? 150?

Hi everyone, I'm excited. I have books on Psalms and just struggle to read the Bible. Proverbs in the past has just turned me off the whole thing until the last few years. After a year away from Librarything I stumbled across your group. Today I'm starting to read the Psalms along side your comments and notes which add so much more than just a commentary from a book. All of your thoughts add so much.

Welcome over Diasukie. No surprise to me that the Psalms would give you trouble, they kicked me off the Bible for about six months. I actually liked Proverbs (and I need to finish up my notes on it - see post 101 for a link). I'm flattered to know our notes are helpful.

My notes on Ecclesiastes will be in the 2015 version of Club Read. I'll put the link in the Proverbs thread.

I'm still here in the Psalms thread. I got up to 30 last night in Alter's book.

Robert

Mr. D - go burn that book. Seriously. Likely any other version is better...or least less needlessly confusing.

I chuckled. I thought that was your opinion of the book. I am keeping my New Jerusalem Bible at hand.

Robert

on a side note, i just read James L. Kugel's chapter on the psalms in How to Read the Bible and found it very good. I didn't take notes, just thought i would mention it. Kugel has a book published on Biblical poetry.

Kugel discusses their lack of specificity, about why psalms asking for something are called laments (because the format for making a request was to show what a terrible situation you were in), about the connections to Ugaritic poetry (see Ps 29), about nefesh and tob (tob is often translated as "goodness", but probably means "plenty", as in crops or rain), about the constant reinterpretation of psalms, highlighting Ps 23. He links the reinterpretation of the psalms with the question of how to use the bible today.

Oh, and "Edom" may be a euphemism for the Romans...

Psalm 82 is interesting. At first I read the opening line too quickly and thought the psalmist was reproaching God. In fact, God is addressing the assembly of gods and berating them, before he fires them.

2 “How long will you judge unjustly
and show partiality to the wicked?
3 Give justice to the weak and the orphan;
maintain the right of the lowly and the destitute.
4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”
5 They have neither knowledge nor understanding,
they walk around in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

Flo, I also really liked Ps 82. One of favorites, partly for its oddity.

For those who want to jump ahead, Ecclesiates is kicked off here - https://www.librarything.com/topic/187190