Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽'s Reviews > Mansfield Park
Mansfield Park
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Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽'s review
bookshelves: regency, classics, bingo-2017
Apr 06, 2013
bookshelves: regency, classics, bingo-2017
Read 2 times. Last read February 8, 2017.
Upping my rating from 3 stars to 4 on reread. Mansfield Park isn't as easy to love as most of Jane Austen's other novels, but it has a lot of insights to offer into the personalities, strengths and weaknesses of not just Fanny, but all of the other characters who live in and around Mansfield Park, a country manor in England. Like Kelly says in her truly excellent review of this book, it's called "Mansfield Park" - not Fanny or Foolishness and Awkwardness - for a good reason.
The other thing that helped me was mentally repeating the mantra that stood me in good stead when I was rereading Rebecca: This is not a romance novel. If you read it with the standard romantic expectations, you're likely to be disappointed. A starry-eyed view of romance and happily-ever-after is not the point of Mansfield Park (and, really, not of any of Austen's other novels, Darcy and Wentworth notwithstanding). Here it's much more about the social commentary, and often about the ways people hurt others through their selfishness or lack of consideration.
After rereading both Mansfield Park and Persuasion, I think that Fanny is just as good a heroine as Anne Elliot, and actually they have a lot in common in their personalities: sensitive, rather shy, physically weak, kind-hearted and giving to a fault. Anne just got the benefit of a better romantic plot line and (sorry/notsorry, Edmund) a far more appealing hero in Frederick Wentworth.
Once I stopped trying to squeeze Fanny and Edmund into the roles of romantic heroine and hero, I was able to appreciate how nuanced and realistically Austen drew these characters. Fanny is the poor cousin who is taken in by her Aunt Bertram's family as a young girl. She's a sensitive soul and a quiet personality, with an unfailing moral compass. Fom the modern point of view she can be a bit of a prig at times, but she was in line with the social expectations for her time, especially for a dependent young woman.
Fanny struggles with her health, partly because of her Aunt Norris' unflagging (and unasked for) efforts to keep Fanny humble and always, always useful, and to save the Bertrams' money at Fanny's expense: her rooms are bitterly cold in winter; there's never a fire in her sitting room until her inattentive uncle realizes it one day. (Aunt Norris, by the way, is a brilliant creation, a shockingly appalling person that still makes you laugh.)
And Fanny also struggles with her unrequited love for her cousin Edmund, the only truly loving person in the Bertram family toward her. So it's a rough blow for Fanny when the fashionable, self-centered and worldly brother and sister team, Henry and Mary Crawford, sweep into town and upend everything at Mansfield Park. Edmund's sisters, Maria and Julia, fight over Henry's attention (Maria's engagement to another man not posing much of an obstacle in her mind; she'd love to trade up personality- and intelligence-wise). Edmund promptly falls for Mary Crawford, who can't quite believe she's really giving a second son - and one who's going to be a clergyman! - the time of day. Edmund is still absentmindedly kind to Fanny, but he's completely head over heels for Mary, to Fanny's vast chagrin.
I never thought Mary quite as unworthy a person as Fanny does, though that may be my modern perspective talking. Henry clearly starts out as a player and a user, but Fanny's sweetness and goodness start to change his jaded heart.
Mansfield Park is so insightful about people’s faults and foibles and personal relationships. Just, look somewhere else if you want a soul-satisfying romance.
Bonus material: After reading Mansfield Park, I jumped into Sherwood Smith's Henry and Fanny: An Alternate Ending to Mansfield Park to see if she could convince me that, just maybe, Jane Austen got the ending wrong here. She is pretty convincing! Give this a shot if you’re interested. It’s one of the few JAFF (Jane Austen fan fiction, for the uninitiated) works I think is really good.
Initial review: Fanny always struck me as a sad sack, and Edmund as needing a nice big shot of testosterone so he could step it up a notch. I really need to reread this one to see if I can develop more appreciation for the main characters.
Maybe my problem is that I want all of my Austen heroines to be more like Elizabeth Bennet.
The other thing that helped me was mentally repeating the mantra that stood me in good stead when I was rereading Rebecca: This is not a romance novel. If you read it with the standard romantic expectations, you're likely to be disappointed. A starry-eyed view of romance and happily-ever-after is not the point of Mansfield Park (and, really, not of any of Austen's other novels, Darcy and Wentworth notwithstanding). Here it's much more about the social commentary, and often about the ways people hurt others through their selfishness or lack of consideration.
After rereading both Mansfield Park and Persuasion, I think that Fanny is just as good a heroine as Anne Elliot, and actually they have a lot in common in their personalities: sensitive, rather shy, physically weak, kind-hearted and giving to a fault. Anne just got the benefit of a better romantic plot line and (sorry/notsorry, Edmund) a far more appealing hero in Frederick Wentworth.
Once I stopped trying to squeeze Fanny and Edmund into the roles of romantic heroine and hero, I was able to appreciate how nuanced and realistically Austen drew these characters. Fanny is the poor cousin who is taken in by her Aunt Bertram's family as a young girl. She's a sensitive soul and a quiet personality, with an unfailing moral compass. Fom the modern point of view she can be a bit of a prig at times, but she was in line with the social expectations for her time, especially for a dependent young woman.
Fanny struggles with her health, partly because of her Aunt Norris' unflagging (and unasked for) efforts to keep Fanny humble and always, always useful, and to save the Bertrams' money at Fanny's expense: her rooms are bitterly cold in winter; there's never a fire in her sitting room until her inattentive uncle realizes it one day. (Aunt Norris, by the way, is a brilliant creation, a shockingly appalling person that still makes you laugh.)
And Fanny also struggles with her unrequited love for her cousin Edmund, the only truly loving person in the Bertram family toward her. So it's a rough blow for Fanny when the fashionable, self-centered and worldly brother and sister team, Henry and Mary Crawford, sweep into town and upend everything at Mansfield Park. Edmund's sisters, Maria and Julia, fight over Henry's attention (Maria's engagement to another man not posing much of an obstacle in her mind; she'd love to trade up personality- and intelligence-wise). Edmund promptly falls for Mary Crawford, who can't quite believe she's really giving a second son - and one who's going to be a clergyman! - the time of day. Edmund is still absentmindedly kind to Fanny, but he's completely head over heels for Mary, to Fanny's vast chagrin.
I never thought Mary quite as unworthy a person as Fanny does, though that may be my modern perspective talking. Henry clearly starts out as a player and a user, but Fanny's sweetness and goodness start to change his jaded heart.
Mansfield Park is so insightful about people’s faults and foibles and personal relationships. Just, look somewhere else if you want a soul-satisfying romance.
Bonus material: After reading Mansfield Park, I jumped into Sherwood Smith's Henry and Fanny: An Alternate Ending to Mansfield Park to see if she could convince me that, just maybe, Jane Austen got the ending wrong here. She is pretty convincing! Give this a shot if you’re interested. It’s one of the few JAFF (Jane Austen fan fiction, for the uninitiated) works I think is really good.
Initial review: Fanny always struck me as a sad sack, and Edmund as needing a nice big shot of testosterone so he could step it up a notch. I really need to reread this one to see if I can develop more appreciation for the main characters.
Maybe my problem is that I want all of my Austen heroines to be more like Elizabeth Bennet.
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Reading Progress
Started Reading
1995
–
Finished Reading
April 6, 2013
– Shelved
July 29, 2015
– Shelved as:
regency
July 29, 2015
– Shelved as:
classics
Started Reading
February 8, 2017
– Shelved as:
bingo-2017
February 8, 2017
–
Finished Reading
Comments Showing 1-50 of 82 (82 new)
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QNPoohBear
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rated it 2 stars
Jun 19, 2015 06:48PM
I agree. Fanny does have a few redeeming qualities but I can't stand Edmund. He's the most boring of all Austen heroes.
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Fanny is a teenager, and exhibits some fairly well drawn traits of PTSD. Quite remarkable. She is also the most clear sighted of all the characters, and she has far more of a sense of humor than Anne Elliott (and far less prejudice). I think Edmund was her first crush. sadly, her author didn't let her grow past it.
Sherwood wrote: "Fanny is a teenager, and exhibits some fairly well drawn traits of PTSD. Quite remarkable. She is also the most clear sighted of all the characters, and she has far more of a sense of humor than An..."
Thanks, Sherwood. Those are helpful insights. I really do plan to reread this, hopefully in the next six months, and it'll be interesting to keep your comments in mind.
Thanks, Sherwood. Those are helpful insights. I really do plan to reread this, hopefully in the next six months, and it'll be interesting to keep your comments in mind.
I'm glad you'll reread it. The book is brilliant up until those last few chapters. (I wrote a very long essay about it in my review.)
Hahahaha! I actually really liked Fanny. She seemed like a real person to me, whereas Elizabeth Bennett was just so witty and confident to be real. Or maybe she would have been one of the girls at the popular table, while Fanny would have sat with me in the lunchroom. Lol!
I read Henry and Fanny: An Alternate Ending and I enjoyed it very much even though I'm not a Fanny and Henry fan. Hope you like it Tadiana.
Tandie wrote: "Hey, I might try Henry & Fanny."
I need to reread Mansfield Park before I read Henry and Fanny, but I'm really looking forward to it.
I need to reread Mansfield Park before I read Henry and Fanny, but I'm really looking forward to it.
Thats so true!! I want all the heroines to be like Elizabeth and I get so disapointed when they're not.
MP used to be my least favorite Austen. I felt like Fanny was H's consolation prize. I read an article defending H and reread it with a new appreciation. I'll try to find it & provide a link.
My least fave Austen hero is Edward from Sense & Sensibility. Zero balls. He doesn't even win loyalty points for sticking to his youthful promise. I want to X him like on that America's Got Talent show!
My least fave Austen hero is Edward from Sense & Sensibility. Zero balls. He doesn't even win loyalty points for sticking to his youthful promise. I want to X him like on that America's Got Talent show!
This is a great thread. Elizabeth Bennett knew her own worth and grew up with parents and an Aunt & Uncle who loved her. Her mom was an idiot, but still fully expected Lizzy to marry well.
Fanny was unwanted by her parents & sent away. She grew up knowing her position in the new household was precarious, the poor relation. She shows amazing strength in refusing a marriage offer, even when it gets her sent back to her parents. She retains a sense of humor & tries to look on the bright side of things.
BTW, I thought she was pretty pathetic on my first read.
Fanny was unwanted by her parents & sent away. She grew up knowing her position in the new household was precarious, the poor relation. She shows amazing strength in refusing a marriage offer, even when it gets her sent back to her parents. She retains a sense of humor & tries to look on the bright side of things.
BTW, I thought she was pretty pathetic on my first read.
Tandie wrote: "This is a great thread. Elizabeth Bennett knew her own worth and grew up with parents and an Aunt & Uncle who loved her. Her mom was an idiot, but still fully expected Lizzy to marry well."
Great points, Tandie! Kelly and Sherwood Smith's MP reviews have given me some great insights into Fanny and MP generally. I'm on my iPad so it's too hard to do the fancy links to their reviews, but here they are:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Great points, Tandie! Kelly and Sherwood Smith's MP reviews have given me some great insights into Fanny and MP generally. I'm on my iPad so it's too hard to do the fancy links to their reviews, but here they are:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
Thx Tadia! I used to reread all my Austen's once a year and my opinions of her lesser works (ahem..not P&P) are constantly changing. Jane is so witty and her stories contain so much social commentary about her time and the slim options available to women. I like to think her writing was a way to deal with her own circumstances. (Yes, I love her. Even her 'bad' novels are 4star.)
I like MP. It's one of my favorites but maybe I'm in the minority here. The only one I don't like is Emma. Just have never been able to enjoy it. However, I've pledged to read it this year as it's her anniversary.
I like MP, too. I admit that it took me several attempts to get into it, and there's no question that Fanny can be really annoying, but JA really takes the gloves off and lets her biting wit have free rein in this one - that's what I love about it.
Tandie wrote: "This is a great thread. Elizabeth Bennett knew her own worth and grew up with parents and an Aunt & Uncle who loved her. Her mom was an idiot, but still fully expected Lizzy to marry well.
Fanny was unwanted by her parents & sent away. She grew up knowing her position in the new household was precarious, the poor relation. She shows amazing strength."
I appreciated those aspects of her personality, but she was such a judgmental prig.
I was 18, though. I guessssss I could reread it.
Fanny was unwanted by her parents & sent away. She grew up knowing her position in the new household was precarious, the poor relation. She shows amazing strength."
I appreciated those aspects of her personality, but she was such a judgmental prig.
I was 18, though. I guessssss I could reread it.
Maybe, but probably not. I still have S&S to read for the first time when I next feel like Austen. Let me know when you get to it, though.
Both the 1995 movie and the 2008 mini-series of S&S are excellent, and the book is my second-favorite of Austen's, after P&P.
Miriam wrote: "Maybe, but probably not. I still have S&S to read for the first time when I next feel like Austen. Let me know when you get to it, though."
I started the other night and am about 10% in. A BR would be fun, though. Another time, another book.
I started the other night and am about 10% in. A BR would be fun, though. Another time, another book.
Fanny's "fault" is that she is the only heroine who is always right, never makes any mistakes of judgement & it's so irritating as is her and Edmund's priggishness. There is no need for her to develop. It is the only JA novel where I keep hoping for a different ending on every reread.
Melindam wrote: "Fanny's "fault" is that she is the only heroine who is always right, never makes any mistakes of judgement & it's so irritating as is her and Edmund's priggishness. There is no need for her to deve..."
I'm a little surprised you rated it 4 stars. :)
I'm a little surprised you rated it 4 stars. :)
It is because I am an Austen fangirl/admirer through and through. ☺ And I like the book, though it is the last on my Austen booklist (Emma & P&P being the 1st).
♛ Garima ♛ wrote: "Elizabeth Bennet is ultimate heroine of all times!"
So true! Even Austen's other heroines can't compete with Lizzy.
So true! Even Austen's other heroines can't compete with Lizzy.
Great review, Tadiana! I've never actually read the book, but the movie adaptation was one of my favorites as a teenager. I always wanted Fanny to end up with Henry.
Good review. I think this is Austen's weakest novel (unlike many others, I rate Emma above P&P). Have you seen the movie version of this? It's really good, better than the book. Apparently Austen's sister begged her to change the ending and put Henry and Fanny together. I agree with that.
Abby *Hates Dust Jackets* wrote: "Good review. I think this is Austen's weakest novel (unlike many others, I rate Emma above P&P). Have you seen the movie version of this? It's really good, better than the book. Apparently Austen's..."
I have seen the movie, but it's been a few years. But the handsome blond actor who played Henry is still superimposed on the dark, not particularly good-looking Henry that Austen described in this book. :)
Sherwood Smith's "Henry and Fanny" is inspired by Jane Austen's brother's written report of their sister Cassandra begging Jane for a different ending. I'm very interested to read it!
Lizzy wrote: "Great review, Tadiana! L."
Thanks, Lizzy!
I have seen the movie, but it's been a few years. But the handsome blond actor who played Henry is still superimposed on the dark, not particularly good-looking Henry that Austen described in this book. :)
Sherwood Smith's "Henry and Fanny" is inspired by Jane Austen's brother's written report of their sister Cassandra begging Jane for a different ending. I'm very interested to read it!
Lizzy wrote: "Great review, Tadiana! L."
Thanks, Lizzy!
I'm currently starting a reread (with Emma, which was my favorite), as I read them all 15-20 years ago. It's a bit scary though, because I think at 40, I will see them entirely differently than I did at 20, and I expect my favorites might change around a bit.
Mansfield Park is a much more elusive novel than the others. I saw it, like you, not as a romance but really a satire against her society and perhaps even the genre of the novel itself, where everything is askew and nothing as it should be - the heroine is not your usual one, the hero even less so, etc. It's as if Austen made the anti-heroes the heroes here. In that light, I loved it - on a personal taste, Persuasion is my favourite but really I love them all :O)
Dichotomy Girl wrote: "I'm currently starting a reread (with Emma, which was my favorite), as I read them all 15-20 years ago. It's a bit scary though, because I think at 40, I will see them entirely differently than I d..."
I need to stalk your updates and review! Emma was not my favorite Austen book, but it'll be my next Austen reread, hopefully sometime this year. I've reread five of her books in the last year or so, and I can tell my opinions and attitudes toward Austen's books have evolved a lot since I was in my 20s. But I'm confident that P&P (when I get around to rereading that one) will still be my favorite. :)
I need to stalk your updates and review! Emma was not my favorite Austen book, but it'll be my next Austen reread, hopefully sometime this year. I've reread five of her books in the last year or so, and I can tell my opinions and attitudes toward Austen's books have evolved a lot since I was in my 20s. But I'm confident that P&P (when I get around to rereading that one) will still be my favorite. :)
This is an outstanding, thoughtful review. Thank you. It also took me a while to truly appreciate MP.
Veronique wrote: "Mansfield Park is a much more elusive novel than the others. I saw it, like you, not as a romance but really a satire against her society and perhaps even the genre of the novel itself, where every..."
Good point, Veronique! Edmund is a fine man--he would have to be, to get Mary Crawford to fall for him--but it's very hard to appreciate him as a romantic hero (view spoiler) .
Renee wrote: "This is an outstanding, thoughtful review. Thank you. It also took me a while to truly appreciate MP."
Thank you too! I like to think my taste in books and my appreciation for books like this have improved with age. :)
Good point, Veronique! Edmund is a fine man--he would have to be, to get Mary Crawford to fall for him--but it's very hard to appreciate him as a romantic hero (view spoiler) .
Renee wrote: "This is an outstanding, thoughtful review. Thank you. It also took me a while to truly appreciate MP."
Thank you too! I like to think my taste in books and my appreciation for books like this have improved with age. :)
I found exactly the same as you with this book; if you go in expecting a romance you'll be disappointed, but if you read it without those expectations it offers a lot to think about, more than her other books perhaps. I thought nature / nurture was a big theme. At the end of Paula Byrne's book about Dido Belle there is a section on slavery and MP and that highlighted to me another aspect of the book - aside from some of the names there are other parallels such as the Bertrams being absentee parents as well as absentee plantation owners etc.
Did you read the Mansfield Park variation? Austen moots the possibility of FP and HC marrying in MP so I like to see authors take her up on that lead :)
Did you read the Mansfield Park variation? Austen moots the possibility of FP and HC marrying in MP so I like to see authors take her up on that lead :)
Ceri wrote: "I found exactly the same as you with this book; if you go in expecting a romance you'll be disappointed, but if you read it without those expectations it offers a lot to think about, more than her ..."
Interesting point about slavery and Mansfield Park. It plays a larger role in the movie but is never expressly referenced in the book (I was watching for it). I wonder if that connection was in Jane Austen's mind when she wrote this?
I'll probably start Sherwood's MP variation tonight. It's only about a hundred pages so it'll be a quick read. She starts her novella a few chapters from the end of MP and then takes the story in a different direction.
Interesting point about slavery and Mansfield Park. It plays a larger role in the movie but is never expressly referenced in the book (I was watching for it). I wonder if that connection was in Jane Austen's mind when she wrote this?
I'll probably start Sherwood's MP variation tonight. It's only about a hundred pages so it'll be a quick read. She starts her novella a few chapters from the end of MP and then takes the story in a different direction.
Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽ wrote: "Dichotomy Girl wrote: "I'm currently starting a reread (with Emma, which was my favorite), as I read them all 15-20 years ago. It's a bit scary though, because I think at 40, I will see them entire..."
You might be somewhat interested in checking out this series as you finish each Austen Book:
https://www.goodreads.com/series/7640...
The ones I read, it was 10+ years ago, but I remember them being mildly amusing. (I can't really emphatically recommend something that I read so long ago and only vaguely remember, lol)
You might be somewhat interested in checking out this series as you finish each Austen Book:
https://www.goodreads.com/series/7640...
The ones I read, it was 10+ years ago, but I remember them being mildly amusing. (I can't really emphatically recommend something that I read so long ago and only vaguely remember, lol)
Thanks! We'll see. I don't mind Austen-inspired retellings (in a different setting, like modern day) or spin-offs, but I'm generally not enthusiastic about retellings of the same story from a different point of view. I tried one once called Darcy's Story and it was PAINFUL.
Did you know about the name references to slavery? A man by the name of Norris was a big supporter of the trade and the court case that contributed to the end of the slave trade was judged by Lord Mansfield, who was a relative of Dido Belle. I can't remember if there were other references, it's been a while!
Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽ wrote: "Thanks! We'll see. I don't mind Austen-inspired retellings (in a different setting, like modern day) or spin-offs, but I'm generally not enthusiastic about retellings of the same story from a diffe..."
I'm not at all a fan of the man's POV that seems to be popular in YA or NA these days myself.
But that wasn't really the reason for the lukewarm recommendation that I gave you. The truth is, I don't trust my judgment of what I found good during a certain part of my life because (and there is really no polite euphemistic way to say this), a long time ago, I was basically in a cult for 10 years, and what I was allowed to read was strictly controlled and limited to approved religious fiction, some children's books, and limited classics.
So these may have seemed awesome at the time because they were a nice change of pace from the usual, (I mean, try reading 300+ books a year under the genre's above only! I think that saddens me more than anything else...all the BOOKS I didn't read during those 10 years! Ok, I lied, the marriage I was forced to stay in was worse...but still....books!)
So this was pretty much the strangest comment I've ever made on GR before, LOL
tldr; I think they were good, but I was in a cult at the time, and therefore my judgement could be compromised.
I'm not at all a fan of the man's POV that seems to be popular in YA or NA these days myself.
But that wasn't really the reason for the lukewarm recommendation that I gave you. The truth is, I don't trust my judgment of what I found good during a certain part of my life because (and there is really no polite euphemistic way to say this), a long time ago, I was basically in a cult for 10 years, and what I was allowed to read was strictly controlled and limited to approved religious fiction, some children's books, and limited classics.
So these may have seemed awesome at the time because they were a nice change of pace from the usual, (I mean, try reading 300+ books a year under the genre's above only! I think that saddens me more than anything else...all the BOOKS I didn't read during those 10 years! Ok, I lied, the marriage I was forced to stay in was worse...but still....books!)
So this was pretty much the strangest comment I've ever made on GR before, LOL
tldr; I think they were good, but I was in a cult at the time, and therefore my judgement could be compromised.
Ceri wrote: "Did you know about the name references to slavery? A man by the name of Norris was a big supporter of the trade and the court case that contributed to the end of the slave trade was judged by Lord Mansfield..."
Good heavens, I had no idea about this stuff. THANK YOU! This is the kind of additional detail I love knowing.
Good heavens, I had no idea about this stuff. THANK YOU! This is the kind of additional detail I love knowing.
Dichotomy Girl wrote: "I'm not at all a fan of the man's POV that seems to be popular in YA or NA these days myself.
But that wasn't really the reason for the lukewarm recommendation that I gave you. .."
*hugs* Thanks for sharing. If I ever see these books in the library or something, I'll have to take a look at them just to see. :)
But that wasn't really the reason for the lukewarm recommendation that I gave you. .."
*hugs* Thanks for sharing. If I ever see these books in the library or something, I'll have to take a look at them just to see. :)
Tadiana ✩Night Owl☽ wrote: "Dichotomy Girl wrote: "I'm not at all a fan of the man's POV that seems to be popular in YA or NA these days myself.
But that wasn't really the reason for the lukewarm recommendation that I gave y..."
No problem! I'm all good now...except for the tendency to overshare, LOL
But that wasn't really the reason for the lukewarm recommendation that I gave y..."
No problem! I'm all good now...except for the tendency to overshare, LOL