Jan-Maat's Reviews > Women & Power: A Manifesto

Women & Power by Mary Beard
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bookshelves: 21st-century, politics-and-polemic, non-fiction

So short, I had not quite intended to read it, when I did, but having in idleness picked it up and read a few pages nonchalantly, I found I was near enough half way through. There are two lectures padded out with illustrations (perhaps Beard had slides for her lectures) in the book, I felt these talks were her in conversation with Virginia Woolf's A Room of one's Own. Both naturally very revealing about their authors. Woolf the novelist deals in pictures: Woman excluded from public places, woman inherits money and removes herself from public - with inherited money she can afford not to worry and to have a private space to retreat into where she can lock the door and write. Who she will write for or who to is unclear, maybe just for her own satisfaction, since her husband was a publisher getting into print wasn't to be an issue.

Beard, scholar that she is takes a different approach, less interested in the particular pictures of women excluded from the library or chased off the lawn she looks at the structures and tradition of power and the silencing of women.

On structure she points out that our notions of power itself are a problem. It is not collaborative, it is a thing to be possessed by a person on their own, by definition most are excluded from it, it is not something we conceive of arising from people working together. Therefore there will be exclusion and participation will be policed.

She discusses the shutting up in public of women from Penelope by her son Telemachus onwards, I don't disagree with anything she says but I do notice that not all the world's cultures have adopted Greece and Rome as their cultural ancestors yet one finds that this doesn't limit the public belittling of women even though as she points out the specific forms of silencing in 'European' cultures have a long heritage.

It might be dispiriting, the pace of change is very slow, but Beard amused me by teaching me that the famous speech of Queen Elizabeth I in which she declaims that she had the heart and stomach of a man etc etc may well be a pure invention,in any case it was first recorded forty years afterwards (once she was dead) by a man and more that the well known speech 'ain't I a woman' by Sojourner Truth, certainly was not what she said but a translation into a Southern drawl - she herself a Northerner who had grown up speaking Dutch as her first language, mind you it serves to illustrate Beard's point that for women who are allowed to speak in certain permitted contexts there is no guarantee that her words will stand and not be 'translated' into something considered more appropriate.

Post script some more hours after reading. One thing that Beard does is illustrate Keynes' belief that we are often surprisingly under the influence of long dead thinkers - in this case Beard shows that typical terms of abuse to silence women, describing women's voices as whining, whinging, animal noises, also the threats of rape and ripping out of tongues, are already there in ancient Greek and Roman writings which are quite explicit that public speech is the domain of the adult man. Ok, so Beard demonstrates that apparently emotional outbursts from the free will of some aggrieved man or other are in fact programmed and automatic responses, but what do we do with this information? And in a book which is called 'a manifesto' where does it lead us towards? Is awareness alone transformative? If I were to be critical I might say that Beard's book draws back the curtain, or points out the Emperor's nakedness but isn't a manifesto in that it doesn't suggest a path leading from the present state to something different other than her suggestion that we rethink ideas of power (admittedly that though a very big suggestion).
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Reading Progress

September 18, 2018 – Started Reading
September 18, 2018 – Shelved
September 18, 2018 – Finished Reading

Comments Showing 1-34 of 34 (34 new)

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Ilse I most liked her idea that we need to start thinking about power differently, like you say, thinking collaboratively and reconfiguring those notions of power who exclude now all but the very few - men as well as women. Maybe a certain awareness on the impact a low pitched (deep male) voice might have in contrast to a high-pitched female one also helps not to let us put to sleep by it?


message 2: by Jan-Maat (new) - added it

Jan-Maat Ilse wrote: "I most liked her idea that we need to start thinking about power differently, like you say, thinking collaboratively and reconfiguring those notions of power who exclude now all but the very few - ..."

Awareness is where we have to start from, I have to agree with you there


Lisa I had a quite amusing situation in my gender-aware country recently: I was browsing the shelves of a big bookstore together with my daughter and my middle son, when he came to me half amused, half annoyed, and announced that the elderly (Swedish) shop assistant had referred a couple to the "men's section" and the "ladies' section" of the bookshelves. He rolled his eyes at the stereotypical thinking, and wondered whether his sister had accidentally ventured into male territory, literary omnivore that she is. He was "safe" in the neutral nonfiction ... "It's not a toilet, is it?" he asked me. The next generation will be different... and awareness needs to be raised in both women and men, as my son pointed out.


message 4: by Jan-Maat (new) - added it

Jan-Maat Lisa wrote: "I had a quite amusing situation in my gender-aware country recently: I was browsing the shelves of a big bookstore together with my daughter and my middle son, when he came to me half amused, half ..."

Is there a men's and women's section to the bookshop - very tricky indeed as you could easily wander into the wrong part and disturb the book buyers there!
The next generation will be different, but I'm not sure there is particularly great evidence to be optimistic


message 5: by Cecily (new)

Cecily Fake news from the first Elizabethan age? Well, that's that bubble popped.
:(

Seriously, though, very good review.


message 6: by Cecily (new)

Cecily Lisa wrote: "I had a quite amusing situation in my gender-aware country recently... shop assistant had referred a couple to the "men's section" and the "ladies' section"..."

The actually call them that?! Wow. Here, there are sections that are clearly expected to be women's (chick-lit, romance - pastel colours) and some that are predominantly aimed at men (crime, horror, sci-fi - dark colours), but they're not called that!


message 7: by Jan-Maat (new) - added it

Jan-Maat Cecily wrote: "Fake news from the first Elizabethan age? Well, that's that bubble popped.
:(

Seriously, though, very good review."


apparently so Cecily, what QEI actually said unknown, in truth everyone is better off reading the book than the reviews - it is so brief a couple of hours reading and hard to do justice to as it touches on many points


message 8: by Fionnuala (new)

Fionnuala I do feel that the internet has given me a forum I didn't have before - that's true for everyone, male or female, of course, but women benefit more, I think. When I joined this site, I was tempted not to register as female, and I've often wondered since how it would be if we didn't know who was male and who was female. Since we function here simply as readers and reviewers, our gender shouldn't need to be part of our profile.


message 9: by Warwick (new)

Warwick Cecily wrote: "Here, there are sections that are clearly expected to be women's (chick-lit, romance - pastel colours) and some that are predominantly aimed at men (crime, horror, sci-fi - dark colours), but they're not called that! ."

I don't know, I've definitely seen "Women's summer reading" tables at a Waterstone's before.

Fionnuala wrote: "I've often wondered since how it would be if we didn't know who was male and who was female."

Even though I don't *think* I deal with people differently, I'm amazed to note how much it confuses me when I don't know the gender of someone I'm talking to online. I conclude from this that the subliminal protocols for conversation are still much more gendered than we realise. Although I tend to assume everyone is female, whereas I saw a study saying that most people do the opposite.


message 10: by Jan-Maat (new) - added it

Jan-Maat Fionnuala wrote: "I do feel that the internet has given me a forum I didn't have before - that's true for everyone, male or female, of course, but women benefit more, I think. When I joined this site, I was tempted ..."

well we don't mostly know who is male and who female on GR, we know who claims to be male or female and we assume that we would know if anyone was being untruthful! I think it is true to say that it isn't necessary to require the information and it would be an experiment if such wasn't required and profile pictures couldn't show human figures I guess we would be disorientated, if it improved the discourse would be the question.


message 11: by Fionnuala (new)

Fionnuala Jan-Maat wrote: "...if it improved the discourse would be the question"

It would change it anyway.
I just checked my gr profile and I see that in fact I didn't register as female so if people don't recognise my name as being a woman's name (half the world mightn't), I may still retain gender anonymity for certain gr users. Interesting.


message 12: by Fionnuala (new)

Fionnuala Warwick wrote: "… I conclude from this that the subliminal protocols for conversation are still much more gendered than we realise.."

I wish they weren't - at least when it comes to discussions about reading and writing. It's always bugged me that there are 'writers' and 'women writers'. That's why I've always avoided the initiatives here on gr like the Year of reading Women. I don't want to read a book because of the author's gender but rather because the author writes exceptionally well. But I do know that it is only in our time that women who happen to be writers find it somewhat easier to be published than they did in the past, and correcting exercises are thought to be still necessary.


message 13: by Warwick (new)

Warwick I wholeheartedly agree, although I was thinking more about how people respond to each other in a discussion rather than how we respond to authors themselves during the reading process. But it is interesting when, for example, you read a book by that prolific author Anonymous, that part of the activity going on somewhere in your brain is about what kind of person this is, male or female, young or old, etc. I remember I read two Robin Hobb books thinking she was a he, and it produced a weird shift in my brain when I learned who she was, though it's hard to put my finger on it.


message 14: by Jan-Maat (new) - added it

Jan-Maat Warwick wrote: "Even though I don't *think* I deal with people differently, I'm amazed to note how much it confuses me when I don't know the gender of someone I'm talking to online. I conclude from this that the subliminal protocols for conversation are still much more gendered than we realise

I guess you are right for most of us, I notice I tend to assume the person's gender from their profile picture

Fionnuala wrote: "Jan-Maat wrote: "...if it improved the discourse would be the question"

It would change it anyway.
I just checked my gr profile and I see that in fact I didn't register as female so if people don'..."


Half the world!? And the rest! I guessed a woman's name only because I recognise Fiona as a woman's name but this is obviously a flawed strategy as An Alex might be an Alexandria or an Alexander, my niece a stocky dumpling of almost two is called Charlie - also unhelpful!


message 15: by Jan-Maat (new) - added it

Jan-Maat Fionnuala wrote: "Warwick wrote: "… I conclude from this that the subliminal protocols for conversation are still much more gendered than we realise.."

I wish they weren't - at least when it comes to discussions ab..."


yes, over the last, I'm not sure what time period I have made an effort to read more women author's therefore the above book, I don't know if an author writes well until I've read them and certainly I see a long term bias in my reading favouring male authors. I'm not sure it makes much difference both can be equally bad as far as I can tell ;)


message 16: by Fionnuala (new)

Fionnuala Warwick wrote: "...I remember I read two Robin Hobb books thinking she was a he, and it produced a weird shift in my brain when I learned who she was, though it's hard to put my finger on it."

I'd be quite happy not knowing. When I read I imagine I'm engaging with the writer's mind, with an abstract entity. I'm not much interested in their physical existence. I rarely read biographies or autobiographies - though I like to read writers' thoughts on their own writing.


message 17: by Fionnuala (new)

Fionnuala Jan-Maat wrote: "..I don't know if an author writes well until I've read them..."

Well, yes :-)


message 18: by Cecily (last edited Sep 21, 2018 08:35AM) (new)

Cecily Interesting points. I was ungendered in name, profile pic, and description for my first two or three years on GR. Then, I wanted to be myself, so switched to my real name and photo. I didn't really think about the gender assumption people might make. And yet I am very conscious of the fact that I feel differently about people with a human photo, another sort of chosen profile pic, and no profile pic at all. Not in a judgemental way, but it's easier to picture them - literally - even though I'm fully aware that people can use photos of someone who is a different gender, age, race than they are.


message 19: by Fionnuala (new)

Fionnuala Cecily wrote: "Interesting points. I was ungenered in name, profile pic, and description for my first two or three years on GR..."

Do you remember if there was any difference in the way people communicated with you before and after?


message 20: by Cecily (new)

Cecily I'm afraid not: it must have been about eight years ago, and when I did it, I wasn't really thinking or noticing about that. I also had far fewer friends and interactions then than now.


message 21: by Jan-Maat (new) - added it

Jan-Maat Cecily wrote: "I'm afraid not: it must have been about eight years ago, and when I did it, I wasn't really thinking or noticing about that. I also had far fewer friends and interactions then than now."

Oh, Cecily! That could have been a nice experiment if only you had kept diligent notes!


message 22: by Fionnuala (new)

Fionnuala But gr provides a record! I'm going to look at your early reviews, Cecily :-)


message 23: by Fionnuala (new)

Fionnuala I took a look at your earliest ones, Cecily, but there are no comments pre 2012 so no joy :-(


message 24: by Cecily (new)

Cecily Fionnuala wrote: "I took a look at your earliest ones, Cecily, but there are no comments pre 2012 so no joy :-("

Ha ha. Excellent attempt at research, and sorry it was futile. The thing is, I didn't write much worth commenting on back then, and I didn't have many friends or followers anyway. It's hard to separate the effects of better reviews, being a more real and gendered person, and having more friends.


message 25: by Jan-Maat (new) - added it

Jan-Maat Cecily wrote: "Ha ha. Excellent attempt at research, and sorry it was futile. The thing is, I didn't write much worth commenting on back then, and I didn't have many friends or followers anyway. It's hard to separate the effects of better reviews, being a more real and gendered person, and having more friends.."

you are widening the range of potential research topics!


message 26: by Mir (new)

Mir Jan-Maat wrote: "I guess you are right for most of us, I notice I tend to assume the person's gender from their profile picture."

Clearly you do not interact with that large category of female romance readers who have photos of attractive male cover models as their profile pictures. This confused me at first, as I had otherwise tended to make the same assumption you indicate.

[Unrelated to gender: I also imagine goodreaders looking approximately like the people in their profiles, even if I know that is an actor or painting and probably doesn't resemble them. If their picture is not a person I imagine them looking like someone I know with the same name.]

I've been watching my Senator Kamala Harris being talked over by male politicians quite a lot lately, although she does not fall silent. Trying times.


message 27: by Jan-Maat (new) - added it

Jan-Maat Miriam wrote: "Jan-Maat wrote: "I guess you are right for most of us, I notice I tend to assume the person's gender from their profile picture."

Clearly you do not interact with that large category of female rom..."


No! indeed I would perhaps think that male models read more books that I might have other wise imagined (and maybe they do while sitting around waiting for the photographer?)

Fairly standard bad manners that talking over a speaking woman practically de rigueur I believe in the UK parliament.


message 28: by Cecily (new)

Cecily Jan-Maat wrote: "...I would perhaps think that male models read more books that I might have other wise imagined ..."

Or maybe reading makes you better-looking, and your average (Good)Reader is more attractive than average!


message 29: by Jan-Maat (new) - added it

Jan-Maat Cecily wrote: "Jan-Maat wrote: "...I would perhaps think that male models read more books that I might have other wise imagined ..."

Or maybe reading makes you better-looking, and your average (Good)Reader is mo..."


for sure reading big heavy books will tone the upper body and frequent trips to library and bookshop will shape the lower body ;)


message 30: by Mir (new)

Mir Jan-Maat wrote: "No! indeed I would perhaps think that male models read more books that I might have other wise imagined (and maybe they do while sitting around waiting for the photographer?)"

Quite possible. Or audiobooks during work outs?

Anyhow, the average American man reads no books so male models can hardly do worse.


message 31: by Jan-Maat (new) - added it

Jan-Maat Miriam wrote: "Jan-Maat wrote: "No! indeed I would perhaps think that male models read more books that I might have other wise imagined (and maybe they do while sitting around waiting for the photographer?)"

Qui..."

really Mr average reads no books? bad news for book sellers.


message 32: by Mir (new)

Mir 25% of American men say they have not read a book in the past year.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/...


message 33: by Jan-Maat (new) - added it

Jan-Maat Miriam wrote: "25% of American men say they have not read a book in the past year.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/..."


I guess they are the 25 % who don't look like male models then?


message 34: by Mir (new)

Mir Maybe not 100% overlap. I'll look for a venn diagram.


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