- Everlasting Summer (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)
The page was deleted incorrectly, there are sources that meet importance criteria. WhyAddX (talk) 16:25, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It seems that the page about russian visual novel "Everlasting Summer" was deleted with incorrect reason.
This game is widely known in russian community, so it meets the WP:GNG, using the reliable sources. Here are some of them that will explain the importance criteria:
Soviet Games, (Разработчики российской игры «Бесконечное лето» собирают деньги на новый проект; The developers of the Russian game "Everlasting Summer" are raising money for a new project)
Everlasting Summer on Steam (just see the number of reviews), in english
Костры погасли (The fires went out), in russian
Интервью: Арсений Чебынкин (ArseniXC) (Interview with Alexey Chebynkin (ArseniXC), in russian
Рецензия на игру Бесконечное лето (Review on the game "Everlasting Summer"), in russian
«Бесконечное лето»: аноны тоже плачут ("Everlasting Summer": anonymous persons also cry), by Edward Chedwick, in russian
Сделано в России. 20 самых примечательных игр русских разработчиков (Made in Russia: The 20 most notable games by Russian developers) by Oksana Alekseenko, in russian
Бесконечное лето — такое не забывается (Everlasting summer - this can't be forgotten) by Dmitry Ryabov, in russian
Everlasting Summer review — Thumbsticks, in english
Everlasting Summer: Enfile ta chapka, camarade! (Put on your hat, comrade!), in french
Also this game can be found in all those databases:
Internet Movie Database, in english
Metacritic (iOS and PC, both in russian
AG.ru, in russian
GameSpot, in english
Giant Bomb, in english
HowLongToBeat, in english
IGDB
MobyGames, in english
PCGamingWiki, in english
RiotPixels, in russian
Speedrun.com, in english
StopGame, in russian
Игромания, in russian
Игры Mail.ru, in russian
And also in other wiki-projects:
TV Tropes, in english
Wiki Tropes, in russian
Lurkmore, before the site closure, in russian
Posmotre.li, before the site closure, in russian
As the conclusion, I will just remind those Wikipedia rules - WP:POINT and WP:GAME. Wikipedia is created to provide the free encyclopedia, not to disrupt the rules or game the system. If there are not enough arguments to restore this page, are there any arguments to keep pages about unknown serial killers, such as Vasily Bolgarov, Valery Kopytov and much more with two-three links in references, with all of them from daily news articles? Why all of them have right to live in English Wikipedia, but not the Everlasting Summer? Everlasting Summer is much more widely known and has the pages in Egyptian Arabic, Czech, French, Italian, Turkish, Ukrainian, Chinese, Ladin, Silesian, Tatar, Esperanto Wikipedias, but no longer in English Wikipedia.
Please read the whole message before answering here. The presence of Russian-speaking users is desirable.
I hope for understanding me correctly.
- Also don't forget about WP:WL. I think that arguments for deletion were just formalistic, because there were much more notable sources, except those which are mentioned in deletion page. WhyAddX (talk) 18:32, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse the AfD, which had clear consensus to delete. However it as been a couple years since that AfD and it's possible things have changed in terms of notability, though I would note that the English-langauge sources I'm familiar with would not necessarily count as they are often either auto-generated or mere databases (like MobyGames, GameSpot, et cetera) and do not contribute to notability. SportingFlyer T·C 17:48, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse correct reading of consensus, and after considering whether significant new information has come to light since the deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page, I would say that the most constructive path forward would be to create a draft using those Russian-language sources that were not considered in the AfD.—Alalch E. 17:56, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- The discussion about deletion was very short and unargumented. There were only few of those sources, that I have published here. Every user who voted for deletion, did it without any arguments for or against. No need to restore the article as a draft, there were a full article just 4 years ago. WhyAddX (talk) 18:16, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- If you have read the whole message, you can see, that those references are not all only auto-generated. I published all sources I know. At least Kanobu.ru review can be considered as reliable resource, because it is very popular website in Russian community, where only redaction can write articles.
- http://kanobu.ru/help:
- "Articles can be written by the Kanobu editors, as well as users with the appropriate rights. The rights are issued to regular participants of contests, bloggers, as well as at the request of a user who wants to create beautiful texts."
- The review by Oksana Alekseenko, who put the game to 20 most notable games by Russian developers, can also be considered as notable source, because it's written in ferra.ru, which is large Russian journal with 2.2 million visitors per month. WhyAddX (talk) 18:13, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Aught, there are more than 66000 reviews on Steam. The game was widely discussed and exactly created in the russian Imageboard iichan.ru , which started many memes. Everlasting Summer is the first Russian visual novella, which also can be considered as notable argument. Can be there any disagreements? WhyAddX (talk) 18:25, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- The discussion was not short. It lasted a normal duration, and a relatively large number of editors all agreed that the article should be deleted for the (then-obvious) reasons stated by the nominator. The new information that has subsequently come to light by virtue of your appeal here does not make me think that it's a good idea to simply restore the article; instead someone, such as yourself, should develop a valid article from information found in the WP:THREE best sources that you can come up with. It's advisable to do so in draftspace and submit through the Wikipedia:Articles for creation process.—Alalch E. 21:18, 22 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Yeah, if the result of deletion review will be rewriting the article through Afc - then I'll do it, maybe in my draftspace. WhyAddX (talk) 07:25, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment You've been given good advice: Get rid of most of the text and most of the sources, and show us the three best ones. Very few people want to go through a ton of sources. Jclemens (talk) 03:40, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Well, I will try. There will be a little bit more, ok? I know that most of the sources cannot be presized as reliable, but I will try to find the best.
- Kanobu.ru, which was considered as reliable source in Russian Wikipedia (The rules are unique for all language branches, aren't they?)
- Kanobu.ru review can be considered as reliable resource, because it is very popular website in Russian community, where only redaction can write articles.
- http://kanobu.ru/help:
- "Articles can be written by the Kanobu editors, as well as users with the appropriate rights. The rights are issued to regular participants of contests, bloggers, as well as at the request of a user who wants to create beautiful texts."
- Ferra.ru review can be also considered as notable reference. Ferra.ru is also a large internet-journal with more than 2.2 visitors per month. And it was also considered as reliable source in Russian wikipedia. The opinion of Oksana Alekseenko, who placed Everlasting Summer in the top twenty of the best Russian games of all time, also cost something.
- The part of page about developing can be written from that resource.
- Jeuxvideo.com is also reliable source, as it seems not to be just usual scrapyard site.
- Well, just see, there are more than million downloads and more than 168000 reviews in Google Play Store, and more than 68000 reviews in Steam.
- TV Tropes may be also reliable resource.
- Well, the first 10 references I gathered from Wikipedias on other languages. The game received a green light on Steam in 3 days, it is known not only in Russia, it is popular in search queries in Google (1,2). Any arguments?
- I have written about resources that can show the reliability of the page. But if the page will be restored, than it will be better to use also official websites of the studio Soviet Games, which created the game, and the website of the game also. WhyAddX (talk) 07:04, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- But as I said, I have published all those links just to show that game is widespread and reliable, and also because it's not me who will decide the reliability. WhyAddX (talk) 07:27, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: I would strongly urge the nominator to be considerably more concise. Stifle (talk) 08:12, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay, now I'll be more concise. I have already said everything that I considered important and significant in the discussion. Yes, there are a lot of links, but let them be, because again, it's not up to me to decide which sources will be used. Users demanded a detailed answer from me, and I provided it. If you do not want to read the text in full - just limit yourself to links from the previous message. WhyAddX (talk) 08:31, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse - Delete was the only possible conclusion by the closer. It isn't clear what the appellant is asking. Sometimes bludgeoning doesn't clarify anything, except to establish that an editor is bludgeoning. The appellant is free to submit a draft for review or to create a new article, subject to AFD. Oncorhynchus mykiss to User:WhyAddX. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:54, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I'll wait for results of the discussion, and after that decide about possible rewriting the article in the draft. WhyAddX (talk) 06:15, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you for explaining all those ethical principles in Wikipedia, because my expirience in Wikipedia as an editor is just two-three weeks. WhyAddX (talk) 06:19, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse - DRV is not a second AFD. There is no other way the closer could have closed that discussion. I'd recommend the editor takes some time reading over things like WP:VG/S - many of the sources presented here are not seen as reliable and likely would not have helped even if this was a second AFD. Sergecross73 msg me 02:59, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I have written above about those resources that were considered as reliable. Jeuxvideo is reliable resource using the WP:VG/S, Ferra.ru and Kanobu.ru were also considered as reliable resources in Russian Wikipedia in it's AfD for Everlasting Summer (1, 2). I have been asked to write three reliable sources. Here you are! 84.209.70.73 (talk) 10:57, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Please wait, I'll check another resources for reliability, just wait a little. 84.209.70.73 (talk) 10:59, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Ok, Gamespot also meets the WP:VG/S requirements. Many of resources are not viewed in that page, because many of them are popular and known only among Russian-speaking audience, but anyway, can be considered as reliable resources. 84.209.70.73 (talk) 11:07, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- It was me, I just forgot to log in. WhyAddX (talk) 11:10, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, but that almost-empty Gamespot database entry does nothing to establish notability. And suggesting sources like "TV Tropes" or "Wiki Tropes" show a complete lack of understanding of our sourcing and notability standards. Sergecross73 msg me 20:51, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- And that was the reason I checked all my sources for reliability and after that wrote them under your message. If you can see, now I have said nothing about those "Tropes". Only Jeuxvideo, Ferra.ru and Kanobu.ru . Gamespot was mentioned because this site is in that page of reliable resources of English Wikipedia. 84.209.70.73 (talk) 16:35, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- But you just listed that extremely not-helpful GameSpot database source yesterday. And you've refused to narrow it down to your best 3 despite multiple requests. You're making it abundantly clear that you're just throwing everything at the wall and seeing if anything sticks. But sadly there's just way too many bad examples in there obscuring possible good ones. Sergecross73 msg me 23:03, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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