Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lambros Lambrou (naval officer)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Evangelos_Florakis_Naval_Base_explosion. Black Kite (t) (c) 00:57, 29 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lambros Lambrou (naval officer)

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He wasn't an important or high-ranking officer and the only coverage of him is passing mentions as a result of being killed in the Evangelos Florakis Naval Base explosion. There's almost certainly no hope of expansion beyond a stub and he fails both WP:SOLDIER (the essay on notability for military personnel) and WP:ANYBIO (the Wikipedia-wide guideline for notability of people). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:28, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Disagree

Commander Lambros Lambrou was 1IC in command of Evangelos Florakis Naval Base, making him de-facto second in command of the Cyprus Navy with comparable rank to an Army Camp Commander (Battalion-level Colonel). I will endeavor over the coming weeks to source relevant and sourced biographical info as it becomes available. Regards Copperhead331 (talk) 20:49, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Colonels don't get articles by default, either. the few articles we have on colonels are usually pretty exceptional colonels. WP:SOLDIER says that only general officers are notable by virtue of their rank alone. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:08, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - In agreement with Copperhead331. Head of nation's major naval bases. Scanlan (talk) 21:18, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Bases? He was the commander of a base according to the article and all the sources I've seen and base commanders, ship captains, battalion colonels etc are almost never notable. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:10, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete As currently written, The article would seem to be a BLP1E, in addition to the issues brought up by HJ Mitchell. Copperhead331 has a point, but I would argue that Evangelos Florakis Naval Base has had numerous commanders over the years, and not all of them could be "pretty exceptional Colonels". RadManCF ☢ open frequency 22:28, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:SOLDIER and doesn't meet basic notability requirements. Warfieldian (talk) 23:37, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Cyprus-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 15:30, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 15:31, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of News-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 15:31, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 15:31, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or merge, depending on sources. If there are reliable sources (including in Greek) which cover Lambrou's naval career and not just his death then keep. Otherwise if the references are just about his death then merge to Evangelos Florakis Naval Base explosion. Greenshed (talk) 18:14, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect Subject of the article does not meet WP:SOLDIER or WP:ANYBIO. As so far as the subject was involved in a single notable event, and the event itself is notable, the article should be changed into a redirect towards said event, and any referenced content from reliable sources can be merged into the event article. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 18:43, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- No objection to redirecting. There isn't anything to merge, since his death and position are already mentioned in the article on the explosion. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:08, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or merge, depending on sources - Since prior to the disaster, Evangelos Florakis Naval Base was a major command in and of itself, i.e. Command of the Navy Base. In other words it was the logistical, if not operational, HQ, of the Cypriot Navy. That would make Commander Lambros Lambrou the head of a major command, one moreover which was practically annihilated in one of the worst (in terms of damage) peacetime accidents ever to involve a Western European Military. I would say that would make him notable, especially since he seems to have died in the line of duty. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.71.99.69 (talk) 20:51, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- But being the commander of a navy base doesn't make one notable. You haven't provided anything to suggest that the subject might meet WP:SOLDIER or WP:ANYBIO. The accident in which he was killed is notable, but that has its own article. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:08, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I thought he met criteria 4 and 5 of WP:SOLDIER, i.e. He was the head of a Major Command, and he died trying to stop a major disaster along with the other victims? 83.71.99.69 (talk) 21:20, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - #4 is for people who held the highest office in their armed force and I don't see how he meet #5. I haven't seen any source that suggests he played any major role in the disaster rather than just happening to be there when the stuff blew up. If there is one, I'd be glad to reconsider. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:29, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Lambrou can be considered to be a departmental head as per #4, since he was head of the Command of the Navy Base, one of the 5 major commands of the Cypriot Navy. You're right though about the need for more information to make sure he qualifies under #5. Though I'm wondering now if he also qualifies under #3, since he was in effect, if not in rank, a Flag officer? 83.71.99.69 (talk) 21:50, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Me again (previously 83.71.99.69). Another point occured to me this morning. The Cyprus Navy Command, to which the Command of the Navy Base reported, consists of, as far as I can tell at this stage, the Head of the Navy, his office, and his staff. By at least some definitions, this would make Commander Lambrou also a member of the Navy's high command, since he was Captain Ioannides de-facto second in command. This would seem to add to the Commander's eligibility under criteria #4 of WP:SOLDIER. 83.71.98.198 (talk) 09:54, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just remembered something that might partially undermine my own argument in that regard. The Cypriot Navy is also known as 'The Cyprus Naval Command' of the National Guard. 83.71.98.198 (talk) 10:02, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Scratch that. I've confirmed that The Cyprus Navy Command is a distinct entity. 83.71.98.198 (talk) 15:38, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, you're starting to win me over. But do you have sources for any of this? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:19, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Among other things, I've being trying to track down the original press release dealing with the Change of Command ceremony at Evangelos Florakis when Commander Lambrou took over. No luck so far. I did come across Lambrou's posthumous promotion to Captain however, and have taken the liberty of updating the main article accordingly. Hope that's okay with the rest of you? 86.41.243.17 (talk) 19:21, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Despite his relatively low rank, his position as second-in-command of the navy makes him notable. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:21, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect - subject currently lacks "significant coverage" in WP:RS and is therefore not notable under WP:GNG. Redirect to Evangelos Florakis Naval Base explosion which is a notable event, and any useful information from this article could be included there. IMO there just isn't enough information available on the subject to write a stand alone article. Anotherclown (talk) 11:04, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Evangelos Florakis Naval Base explosion Support for WP:SOLDIER is very weak (I disagree that #4 or #5 is fulfilled by the current arguments put forth. He was not in a top position nor has he played an important role in a significant military event. Also, The notability of the person seems to be for a single event, which isn't going to be enough on its own. Still, some of the information can be included within the event article. I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 04:05, 20 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, causa sui (talk) 21:28, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect per above. Does not meet the subject specific guideline and all substantial coverage is related to a single event. Eluchil404 (talk) 05:55, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.