Wikiquote:Votes for deletion archive/Quranic verses that support violence

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: . Delete. Fys. “Ta fys aym”. 10:58, 20 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This page is a highly POV selection of quotes from the Qur'an. The quotes are presented out of context and without any explanation. If this page remains, any page of "Qur'anic quotes on [insert subject here]" would be an equally valid article. BhaiSaab 07:11, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• Vote closed: Result: Delete. Fys. “Ta fys aym”. 10:53, 20 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Delete as per nom. TruthSpreader^Talk 07:21, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong delete. POV. And actually the Quran is very peaceful. --Peace. Nielswik_(talk) 08:04, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Interpreting sacred works is a tricky business indeed, and religion inspires all kinds of tortuous use of whatever language a work is written in to justify often mutually exclusive beliefs. For any quote that "obviously" supports a position, someone can usually come up with an explanation of why it doesn't really, and the original authors aren't around to clarify. Wars are fought over such inherently POV arguments. I'm against this article for the same reason I'd be against Bible verses that support violence, or even Bible verses that support peace. Wikiquote quotes; it doesn't justify or explain. The only arguments our articles should contain are ones about sourcing. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 10:10, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per everyone. Egregious NPOV violation. Fys. “Ta fys aym”. 15:20, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per above. This a clear NPOV violation. Palestine48 14:47, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. ~ UDScott 15:51, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, though I should point out that, according to our current NPOV policy, this is not a violation of NPOV. Our current policy only pertains to non-quote material on a page (i.e., introductions and context). I had previously started work on a new draft NPOV policy which would address the selection and presentation of quotes, as well. —LrdChaos (talk) 16:00, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete It is an orginal research. We cannot present Quranic verse unless we know the context the verse refer too. If a verse come in war and we just want to put it here without any background then it is very wrong. --- 132.230.150.178 16:17, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Rather than create a page such as this, the place for these quotes would be the Qur'an page itself. There have already been edit wars on the Qu'ran and Muhammad pages about the addition of these quotes. (See Talk:Qur'an). Creating a separate page for them is therefore redundant and merely encourages further quarrels. - InvisibleSun 16:29, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Putting different verses which relate to different occasions and issues is wrong. It result in misunderstood.Thus this title ("Quranic verses that support violence") isn't acceptable.--Sa.vakilian 16:35, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep It's not POV. It's quotes from the Quran that directly mention violence. And yes bhaisaab, there is no problem with having a wikiquote page about any topic in the Quran. For those who claim that the Quran is peaceful, that is true. However, it is also violent (it's very jumbled up). If you really think the Quran is peaceful, read the Verse of the Sword, and find out when in his life and at what stage in his leadership he recited it. Arrow740 23:15, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment "there is no problem with having a wikiquote page about any topic in the Quran." Yes there is, otherwise people will start flooding the pages with original research. This article is inherently POV from its title. BhaiSaab 23:31, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Delete 80.195.171.225 00:48, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete There are many problems with this. 1. Which quotes are for violence, well it depends who interprets them and how interpret them. 2. This article is supposed to show that the Qur'an is a violent book --> POV pushing. Aside from these, it is not scholarly. AND LASTLY, BTW this wikiquote is created to be used to be spread in wikipedia itself. I am sure if this article remains, many editors will come here from wikipedia and nominate it for deletions. --Aminz 01:27, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. The article by its title is inherently non-NPOV. There may on occasion be a reason to create more than one page about a religious text, but this article does not have such a reason. Such an article as Arrow740 suggests could be done in a neutral manner, by mechanically selecting passages that use certain words or phrases, but Wikiquote is not a concordance. 121a0012 02:40, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep The reason this page was created is because according to wikipedia policy there cannot be a list on wikipedia of this kind, which would be necessary for the w:Criticism of the quran article, so I made a link to this page. If this article is re-done in a neutral way or with a more neutral title, I will change my vote.--Sefringle 03:43, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Move I changed my mind. I now think this page should become a sub-category in the Quran article. That article is also not NOPV, and by adding this section to that article, it would make both articles NOPV.--Sefringle 21:20, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is, of course, nothing that prevents you now from moving the quotes. In fact, the section on the Qur'an page entitled "Other Faiths" would appear to be the sort of thing you wish to compile. Although most of the debate here is about POV/NPOV, I would argue, as I've done above, that the question is that of redundancy. If POV was the problem, then it would remain a problem even if the quotes were on the Qur'an page. And yet how could it be plausibly argued that a quote, be it from the Bible or Qur'an, should not exist on a Bible or Qur'an page if it was verified? Individuals might be offended and others might complain about the predominance of one set of quotes over another, but the solution to this is to balance that set with quotes providing other perspectives.

By creating a separate page of Qur'anic quotes as you have done, it means that inevitably there would be two sets of quotes on the same subject: one on the page you created and the other on the Qur'an page. This is the sort of thing we try to prevent on Wikiquote. If a novel has its own page and its author has another, it may happen that the author's page will accumulate quotes from that novel. When this happens we seek to merge them so that readers, looking for quotes from that novel, will not have to look at two separate but differing collections.

Lastly, keep in mind that you can make a point without including every quote on a subject. It's neither sensible nor effective to create a tedious repetitiousness. If, for example, the words "Obey the Lord and keep his commandments" can be found in the same or similar words at fifty places in a text, this doesn't mean that it needs to be quoted fifty times on a Wikiquote page. - InvisibleSun 22:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.