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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 2 October 2024 [1].

Battle of Lake Providence

[edit]
Nominator(s): Hog Farm Talk 03:44, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have a long-term goal to get all of the articles related to the Vicksburg campaign to featured article status, in the manner of Wikipedia:Featured topics/Guadalcanal Campaign. Hopefully this will become the fourth FA of the direct project, after Battle of Grand Gulf, Battle of Raymond, and Battle of Helena, with Grant's Canal and Duckport Canal as supporting FAs. This isn't the meatiest article of the group, but I believe it is as comprehensive as can be. This winter, when I have more time on my hands, I hope to tackle some of the bigger ones. Hog Farm Talk 03:44, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Support from CMD

[edit]

Thanks for the read. The comments below are part clarificatory questions, rather than being a point by point list of needed actions.

  • Is there a pattern behind the name abbreviations of Hugh T. Reid, Paul O. Hébert, and E. Kirby Smith? Just convention among historians?
  • "Bartlett's force crossed Bayou Macon two days late" does not come with context as to what the expected time was. Coordination with the other prongs? Same in the body.
    • This is addressed in the body - "Major General John George Walker's troops reached Richmond on June 6, and Taylor planned a three-pronged strike for the next day: Confederate troops were to attack Milliken's Bend, Young's Point, and Lake Providence". I've added to the lead a statement that the attacks were scheduled to take place on June 7. Hog Farm Talk 21:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Confederate were forced to halt" in the lead doesn't seem to align with "Bartlett halted his cavalry at the bridge in order to allow the infantry to catch up" in the body, with the latter implying it was a choice rather than something forced.
  • Without going into a huge amount of detail, could Background provide a bit more context as to the situation in Louisiana at this time? The Union forces are described as attacking Vicksburg from Louisiana, which is to the west, and Confederate forces also come from the west, including apparently taking over Richmond.
  • What sort of place is "Caledonia"? The article seems to append ", STATE" to towns and cities, which made me curious what Caledonia was, and I was unable to find it in a quick search (outside of this unhelpful mention in civil war coverage).
    • After quite a bit of searching, I turned up this which calls it a "post-hamlet" as of 1902, but there's no way of knowing if this was a post-hamlet in 1863. The only detail I can find about Caledonia in the various sources related to this battle are references that it had a brick kiln and "Negro quarters". I've delinked it, as there's essentially no chance that an article on this place could be developed. Hog Farm Talk 21:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The map in "Battle" is not too helpful, but perhaps better than nothing. The caption could use some expansion, "Walker's operations in support of Vicksburg" makes me assume it would show Milliken's Bend and Young's Point, which are described as the three operational prongs, but instead it shows Richmond (and Vicksburg of course).
  • What was the "Union outpost at Bunch's Bend", just a few troops smaller than a picket?
    • Winters has "Bartlett crossed Bayou Macon and moved over to Bunch's Bend on the Mississippi, capturing the Federal outpost at that point". Bearss does not mention this, nor does Reid or the NPS source. Hog Farm Talk 21:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Confederates reached the wrecked bridge", does this mean the infantry, given Bartlett was already there?
  • Would it be possible to explicitly mention the shooting engagement was across the Bayou Tensas?

Best, CMD (talk) 08:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aside from that, on a fresh reread, I think the article meets the FACR. It certainly more comprehensive than Grabau 2000. Best, CMD (talk) 12:39, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FM

[edit]
  • Link Milliken's Bend, Louisiana in intro and article body?
  • "Grant still kept minor supply points at there, Young's Point, and Lake Providence in Louisiana" The placement of "at" seems a bit off, perhaps before Young's Point would be better?
    • This was a suggestion by Zawed in their review. The "there" here is referring to Milliken's Bend. I don't know that there's a way to get around the awkward phrasing here without the frequent use of Milliken's Bend in this section. Hog Farm Talk 21:27, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Zawed

[edit]

Background

Battle

That's about it for me. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 08:33, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Zawed: - Thanks for the review! Replies are above. Hog Farm Talk 18:52, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good so have added my support. Zawed (talk) 22:31, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sammi Brie

[edit]

Pulling up a chair...

Just for myself, I would think that if a reader has no clue as to where New Orleans is, adding "Louisiana" is (highly) unlikely to help them, so you should feel free to skip it. Others may disagree. @Sammi Brie: for info. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:11, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mostly comma fixes and one or two copy flow items. Ping when done. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 04:52, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sammi Brie: - Thanks for your review! I'm not very good with comma usage - I blame the Missouri Department of Elementary and Secondary Education somewhat. Hog Farm Talk 20:38, 20 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

750h

[edit]

Will leave comments. 750h+ 10:53, 21 September 2024 (UTC) Feel free to refuse the suggestions with justification.[reply]

lead
background
battle
aftermath
  • the field by a different ==> "the field in a different"
    • I prefer this as it is. At least in my mind, "by a different way" would generally be referring to a different route back, while "in a different way" could more naturally refer to getting back by a different method. Hog Farm Talk 21:32, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's all i got. fine work. 750h+ 11:05, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@750h+: - Thanks for the review! My replies are above. Hog Farm Talk 21:32, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Happy to support. 750h+ 00:19, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

[edit]

Shelby Foote seems to be a somewhat questionable source; was this accounted for when the article was written? John D. Winters raises similar doubts but to a lesser degree. "The Civil War Battlefield Guide" is being cited in two different formats. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:02, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: - as to the Battlefield Guide matter, are you talking about Bearss 1998 and Winschel 1998 vs Kennedy 1998, this is due to a peculiarity of this work. The more important battles receive longer writeups from established and recognized historians like Bearss and Winschel, while the smaller battles have no byline and I guess were written by Kennedy? The smaller ones sometimes are pretty similar to the Civil War Sites Advisory Commission battle summaries. I agree that Foote should probably go; his work is still respected as probably the single best piece of pure writing about the war, but is non-scholarly and is getting dated. I'm aware from my books right now, but once I get back I'll find replacements for the two citations to Foote. I will defend the usage of Winters, though. Winters is very heavily cited, even and is still being cited in post-2019 works. The main factual problem that I'm aware of is that his estimate of free blacks that served in the Confederacy is rejected by modern scholarship, but that error does not have any bearing on the topic at hand. Winters' views on certain subjects are not politically correct, but I've intentionally avoided using Winters for anything directly involving the USCT. As much as Winters is cited in the late 20th and 21st century literature on the war in Louisiana, I'm worried that it would be a WP:FACR #1c issue to not use Winters. Hog Farm Talk 02:11, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. I think, but am not positive, that INTEXT attribution should be used or perhaps additional sources to corroborate Winters' claims if they are both questionable and yet necessary for completeness. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:01, 24 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm unaware of anyone who has questioned Winters' combat descriptions. I think this is more of a circumstance where Winters is only FA-usable for certain classes of statements, and the material Winters is cited for falls into those classifications. Hog Farm Talk 03:18, 25 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Jo-Jo Eumerus - both citations to Shelby Foote have been replaced - one by a citation to Miller, and another to a book written by Timothy B. Smith (one of the leading experts on the campaign) and published by the University of Kansas. Hog Farm Talk 22:29, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seems OK then. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:02, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Matarisvan

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Hi Hog Farm, my comments:

That's all from me. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 08:17, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Matarisvan: - Thanks for the review! My replies are above. Hog Farm Talk 22:37, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 2 October 2024 [2].

330 West 42nd Street

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Nominator(s): Epicgenius (talk) 13:39, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about another skyscraper in New York City. This one was constructed as an office building for the McGraw-Hill Companies in 1931. Because of its distinctive color, 330 West 42nd has been called the "green monster", though it has also been held up as an early example of the International Style of architecture. After going through some ownership changes over the years, it was extensively renovated a few years ago, and the building's owners recently started converting the upper stories to apartments.

This page became a Good Article three years ago after a Good Article review by Filmgoer, for which I am very grateful. After some more recent copyedits, I think the page is up to FA quality. I look forward to all comments and feedback. Epicgenius (talk) 13:39, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HF - support

[edit]

I'll review this one - please ping me in a week if I haven't started. Hog Farm Talk 23:35, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • "The terracotta panels were built to the minimum thickness required by city building codes" - source has "the important architectural elements formed by the smooth bands of colored terra cotta spandrels are nothing more than the strict minimum requirement of the building regulations-namely masonry filling between window heads and sills". When I first read the sentence in the article, I understood this as a reference as to how thick the panels were from outer surface to the back of the panel, but the source seems to be referring to the amount of paneling between each window (so the thickness of the terracotta panels in a different sense). Is there a way that this can be clarified?
    • I've changed "minimum thickness" to "minimum dimensions", but I still have to think on this, as the wording in the source is a bit convoluted. The source implies that some terracotta had to be included and Hood wanted to include the smallest possible pieces, but it could also be interpreted to mean that Hood used as few pieces of terracotta as possible. Epicgenius (talk) 23:27, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "They were painted white with orange stripes, but that color was removed when McGraw-Hill sold the building" - is "removed" really the right word? Per the NPS source, instead of the color being taken away, it was covered up
  • "were rented out as office space at a rate of $0.90 per square foot ($9.7/m2)." - do any of the sources compare this price to that charged by other skyscrapers in the area at the time?
  • "There was a reception area to the left and a large seating area to the right. Gerard Nocera, a managing partner for the asset manager that controlled the building, said at the time:" - the location of this sentence implie that this is referring to features of the modern lobby, while the use of "was" suggests this is referring to the old lobby.
  • "Industrial uses were placed on the second through tenth floors," - I don't think "industrial uses" works as a noun when used like this
  • "These stories were converted to standard office space by 1933" - the source just says that the printing equipment was removed in 1933 and that by the end of the decade, the McGraw-Hill space had gone from 75% to 34%, with the remainder attempting to be filled by tenants. I don't think we can really say that it was all standard office space by 1933 using this source
  • "With the onset of the Great Depression, the industrial equipment on the lower floors became obsolete and was sold in January 1931" - two gripes on this one. First, based on the source this should be 1933 not 1931. And also, I don't think "obsolete" is the right word here. That suggests that the equipment became outdated, when what the source is saying is that McGraw-Hill just didn't have enough business to justify the continued ownership and use of the machines
    • Good point. I think I typed the wrong year, so I've changed that. The sentence now reads, "With the onset of the Great Depression, the industrial equipment on the lower floors was sold in January 1933" Epicgenius (talk) 22:26, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "These tenants included a trading floor of Paine Webber[132] as well as the New York City Department of Cultural Affairs" - this is referring to the agency as one of Gural's large tenants in the 1980s, but then we get "The New York City Department of Cultural Affairs (DCLA) moved to a 13,000-square-foot (1,200 m2) space at 330 West 42nd Street in 1998,". So did the DCLA move to the site in the 1980s, move out, and then move back in in '98, or are these two sentences referring to the same event?
  • "and the building's owner, Resolution Real Estate, started leasing office space" - I thought the building was owned by Deco Towers?
  • " Pitts, Carolyn. (February 9, 1989) National Register of Historic Places Registration: McGraw Hill Building, National Park Service and Template:NHLS Url" - something has gone wrong with the citation formatting

I think that's it from me. Hog Farm Talk 21:52, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments HF. I'll take a look at these by Monday. – Epicgenius (talk) 22:23, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Hog Farm, thanks for the review. I've now addressed everything that you raised. Epicgenius (talk) 14:07, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review by Generalissima

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  • File:Mcgraw-hill-42nd-st 1.jpg: CC-BY-SA
  • File:Mcgraw-hill-42nd-st.jpg: CC-BY-SA
  • File:The_old_McGraw-Hill_Art_Deco_building._(48162190537).jpg: CC-BY
  • File:McGraw_Hill_Building,_from_42nd_Street_and_Ninth_Avenue_looking_east,_Manhattan_(NYPL_b13668355-482670).jpg: PD, correct license
  • File:McGraw-Hill_building,_Manhattan.jpg: CC-BY-SA
  • File:The_Orion_and_330_West_42nd_Street_Oct_2011.jpg: CC-BY-SA

All images are appropriate to the article. They're laid out correctly, captioned well, and have alt-text. Support on image review. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 20:27, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

750h

[edit]

Will review after Hog Farm finishes his. 750h+ 02:12, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

lead
  • link the first instance of facade
  • green metal-framed windows, with a strongly remove comma
  • in floor plan, except for remove the comma
  • The building subsequently served as the headquarters of Group Health Insurance (GHI). ==> "The building subsequently became the headquarters of Group Health Insurance (GHI)." (WP:SERVEDAS)
site
  • Tower's upper stories would have been so small as to be economically infeasible, and critics also disapproved of what was then an extreme height, leading to its cancellation in 1930. because these sentences ta;l about two different things i'd split this to "Tower's upper stories would have been so small as to be economically infeasible. Critics also disapproved of what was then an extreme height, leading to its cancellation in 1930." (or something like that.
architecture
  • and J. André Fouilhoux, of the firm Hood remove the comma
  • "The requirements peculiar to a publishing business have formed the basis for the entire structure—in plan, section and elevation." even though this is a quote, i think you'd still change this to "in plan, section[,] and elevation."
  • link the first instance of facade
  • Nash likened the massing to that of an ocean liner. i'd remove "that of"
  • contains what were originally a pair of three-bay-wide change "were" to "was". If you said "contains what were originally two three-bay-wide" then you'd keep "were" but because you say "pair" that's a singular noun, so it should be "was"
  • doorway with five doors, recessed within remove the comma
  • considered several different colors for remove "different"
  • There were doorways that led to the bookstore on the left ==> "Some doorways led to the bookstore on the left"
  • on the left (east) wall and to the bank on the remove "to"
history
  • The LPC had declined to preserve the lobby i'd find a synonym for preserve since it's used in the previous sentence.
reception
  • nothing here

No other problems. Fine work, @Epicgenius:. 750h+ 09:10, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments. I might get to these by Wednesday or Thursday. Epicgenius (talk) 15:35, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, @750h+, I was just able to fix all of the issues you raised above. Thanks again for the comments. Epicgenius (talk) 16:28, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support 750h+ 16:47, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - pass

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Incoming. - SchroCat (talk) 12:51, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Refs formatted consistently
  • Sources are of high and reliable quality
  • Searches show no additional sources that are either stronger than those used, or that show anything missing
  • Pass source review - SchroCat (talk) 13:11, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dugan Murphy: support

[edit]

I'll read through the article and write out some comments soon. Dugan Murphy (talk) 23:02, 26 September 2024 (UTC) Here they are:[reply]

  • The first paragraph of the Architecture section has two quotes that MOS:QUOTEPUNCT recommends but does not require are preceded by a colon instead of a comma, as the article has it. I would also recommend this unless you feel attached to the commas. Same for the North quote and the Architecture Plus quote and the Koolhaas quote in the Reception section.
  • MOS:NUMNOTES says to avoid starting sentences with numbers. That happens 6 times in this article. I recommend giving another look and deciding if that 6 number can be reduced. Otherwise, I would judge 6 is not egregious given the topic. Perhaps you could replace some of those 6 instances with "The McGraw-Hill Building"? I say that used in the article.
    • You would be right in almost all cases. However, MOS:NUMNOTES does include an exception ("Proper names, technical terms, and the like are never altered"), giving 10 Downing Street, which is also an address, as an example. In this case, 330 West 42nd Street can be treated as a proper name as well. Although it is historically also referred to as the McGraw-Hill Building, this name also refers to 1221 Avenue of the Americas, so I used the address to avoid confusion. Epicgenius (talk) 21:59, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • The building was largely designed with a plain facade, except for the original ground level and the upper stories. I'm not sure how to interpret this sentence. It seems to be telling me that the design was plain, except for on every story. Maybe it means that it was plain in the middle? If so, maybe changing "upper" to "uppermost" or "top" would clarify.
  • MOS:SMALLCAPS says: "Reduce names of companies or other trademarks from all caps to sentence case, unless they are acronyms or initialisms, even if the company normally writes them in all caps." That tells me to remove the use of small caps for describing the McGraw-Hill signage. Do you have an overriding reason for using small caps here?
  • Reading the description of the storefront level and lobby, I'm wondering what they look like. Can you add photos of wither? As well-illustrated as this article is, none of these photos show the first floor or interior.
    • Unfortunately, the first floor is physically closed to the public right now (which is ironic, given that I go past there every day). I could probably take pictures of the exterior storefronts, though. I also realized that there is a serious dearth of pictures of this building on Commons, which is very weird, since I usually take dozens of pictures for buildings that I write about. Epicgenius (talk) 21:59, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Having "appalled" raises the question of whether this is WP:SCAREQUOTES (especially when paired with "supposedly") or a James H. McGraw Jr. quote or the quote of a scholar or contemporary. I'm guessing you could replace with "reportedly appalled" without quotation marks, which would nix all of these questions.
  • Who came up with the building's nicknames? Can they be attributed to journalists or others?
  • contains a frame: I think "includes" would be a better word choice.
  • Wikilink Mullion?
  • The building is sometimes described as the "McGraw-Hill Building". Has there been much thought or discussion already paid to whether it is more appropriate for this article to bear that name?
    • The current title does function as a WP:NATURALDIS, since there are two McGraw-Hill Buildings in Manhattan. If the common name were "McGraw-Hill Building", then perhaps the article could be moved to McGraw-Hill Building (42nd Street) (which is substantially longer than the current name but is the shortest one that's not ambiguous). However, from what I can tell, more-recent sources tend to refer to the building both by its address and by its name. Epicgenius (talk) 21:59, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Who came up with and/or uses the term "Raymond Hood Colonial"?
  • the natural light: I think "the" is extraneous.
  • Furthermore, there are several tenant lounges,: "Furthermore" doesn't look right here. I think the paragraph would work better without it.
  • Early on in the Architecture section, the article says the building uses sash windows, but later on in the same section, it says that the windows were eventually replaced with windows that could open and close. Don't sash windows open and close?
  • The term "clockwise from the north" doesn't seem necessary for orienting the reader.
  • hoped that the building: "That" is unecessary.
  • Who considered West 42nd Street tawdry?
  • Is the period in "three times over in ten minutes." part of the quote? If not, it should be moved outside the quotation marks per MOS:INOROUT.
  • What are amenity spaces?
  • Rather than putting "nonhistorical windows" in quotation marks, I think maybe "windows they didn't consider historically significant" or something like that.
  • McGraw-Hill Companies is Wikilinked twice in the lead. The second instance should be removed per MOS:DUPLINK.
  • GHI is spelled out as both Group Health Insurance and Group Health Inc. Which is it?
  • GHI is redlinked in the lead, so I think its first instance in the body should also be redlinked.
  • My feeling is that the infobox should only pull from info that is already in the body, which would mean it doesn't need citations. Of the four significant dates, the first and fourth are already in the body, the second just needs the month and day added to the body, and the third doesn't appear to be mentioned anywhere. What do you think about adding the missing info to the body and removing the infobox citations?

Summary: This article is really well-written, neutral throughout, and very comprehensive, without undue attention to any one aspect of the topic, I think. The lead does a great job of summarizing the body. It also appears to be stable and well-illustrated. Earwig doesn't find anything that looks like plagiarism.

Thank you very much for the comments. I will get to these over the next few days. Epicgenius (talk) 21:59, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Dugan Murphy, thanks again for the detailed review. I've actually been able to address all of your feedback now. Epicgenius (talk) 22:08, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well done. This article is in great shape, so I support this nomination. If you are willing to do some reviewing yourself, I have an active FAC nomination that hasn't received any reviews yet beyond an image review. You'll find that here. Thanks in advance if you decide to take a look! Dugan Murphy (talk) 22:01, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the support. And sure, I can take a look at your nomination soon. – Epicgenius (talk) 22:53, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 2 October 2024 [3].

Gedling Town F.C.

[edit]
Nominator(s): Curlymanjaro (talk) 16:09, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about... Gedling Town Football Club, a small Nottinghamshire team that last competed at the tenth tier of the English football pyramid before disbanding in 2011. The article passed GA requirements in June and has since featured on DYK. I now think the article is ready for FAC comments. Just a few preliminary points arising from the imperfect and fragmentary nature of sources covering smaller football clubs:

  • You will see mentions of "at least" etc. when I have been unable to find the exact start and/or end of something being implemented at the club. This is the best I can do, unfortunately.
  • I cannot say for sure why Gedling was denied promotion in 2001–02. The British Newspaper Archive only runs sources up to 1999 and online reporting on the Northern Counties East Football League (NCEL) only started in 2002.
  • In some of the older archived NCEL pages, there's no separate URL to take you to the info on Gedling Town specifically. You will first need to click on "Clubs" and then "Div One".

If all of that has failed to scare you off (or torpedo my bid from the start), I look forward to receiving your feedback. Curlymanjaro (talk) 16:09, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Thanks, Nikkimaria. Done. Curlymanjaro (talk) 15:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sammi Brie

[edit]

I wanted to figure out the 2002 failure to promote. The only possible clue I have is in this article in NewsBank: "Pikes drop points to finish in fourth place". North Yorkshire County Publications. 9 May 2002.

The promoted sides from the first division will the champions Gedling Town and runners-up Bridlington Town, provided both grounds meet the relevant criteria.

Given that ground issues had dogged the club before, that would be a prime candidate for the promotion blocker.

With that piece of business out of the way, let's give this a look:

  • The team were nicknamed "The Ferrymen" and their colours were primarily yellow and blue. Needs a comma after Ferrymen. WP:CINS
  • Gedling Town was founded as R & R Scaffolding in 1985, the works team of a construction firm from Netherfield. Flip to Gedling Town was founded in 1985 as R & R Scaffolding, the works team of a construction firm from Netherfield. so the appositive properly connects.
  • In the 1988–89 season, R & R Scaffolding contested the final of the league's Senior Cup, but lost 1–0 Remove comma after Cup (one subject, not two)
  • The team led the league for much of the season before finishing runners-up to Slack & Parr, but were still promoted to the CML Supreme Division Remove unneeded comma
  • Hyphenate "biggest-ever"
  • This season marked the arrival of full-back Gary Ball from Arnold Town, a player... Arnold Town is not a player. Reorganize: This season marked the arrival from Arnold Town of full-back Gary Ball, a player...
  • the team was eliminated from title contention by January and manager Dave Sands was sacked to be replaced by Ray Sully Comma after January
  • Floodlights were installed by 1993 and accidental damage to these in 1997 Needs a comma after 1993

Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 05:10, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Sammi Brie. Everything done. If you're happy with putting the failed promotion down to ground issues, then so am I. I'll write it up if you could kindly provide the full citation. Curlymanjaro (talk) 15:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Curlymanjaro The full citation has been included above (there's a Cite news template if you edit source). No byline or page number is given for this article by NewsBank. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 17:31, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Sammi Brie. Thanks - it's in. Do you have a URL perchance? Curlymanjaro (talk) 15:07, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Curlymanjaro Not with NewsBank. It does not produce nice URLs. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 04:52, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Sammi Brie- sorry to nudge. Any final verdict on the nom? Curlymanjaro (talk) 14:19, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was waiting for you to reply all this time... I'm a Support. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 16:19, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

[edit]

Although the use of "it"/"they" to refer to a football club/team in UK English can be" a bit nebulous, I feel there are some cases where the wrong one is being used in terms of how football people would speak......

  • "Gedling played its first four seasons" => "Gedling played their first four seasons"
  • "the club competed in the Northern Counties East Football League (NCEL) Division One and three Central Midlands Football League (CML) divisions before that" - last two words are redundant as you already used "before" at the start of the sentence
  • "Promoted to Division Two, 1986–87 saw" - it wasn't 1986-87 that got promoted. Suggest "After being promoted to Division Two, R & R Scaffolding reached the final of the league's Junior Cup in the 1986–87 season"
  • Netherfield image caption needs a full stop
  • " the team delivered on its own slim promotion hopes" => " the team delivered on their slim promotion hopes"
  • "Becoming champions on the first attempt" => "Becoming champions at the first attempt"
  • " later led it in the new year" - what's "it"?
  • "the team was eliminated from title contention by January" => "the team were eliminated from title contention by January"
  • "by his assistant, player-manager Jamie Brodie" - he wasn't player-manager when he was his assistant. Suggest "by his assistant, Jamie Brodie, who became player-manager "
  • Watnall Road image caption needs a full stop
  • "While aiming for back-to-back championships, 1998–99 saw Gedling" - it wasn't 1998-99 that was doing the aiming. Suggest "Although the club was aiming for back-to-back championships, 1998–99 saw Gedling"
  • Devon White image caption needs a full stop
  • "Much of the team departed also" => "Much of the team also departed"
  • "a move that, joined by assistant Tony Cox, saw John Humphries return to management for the rest of the season" - this is a bit hard to follow. Suggest "a move that saw John Humphries return to management for the rest of the season, joined by assistant Tony Cox, "
  • "Gedling was a founder member of the tenth-tier East Midlands Counties Football League (EMCFL) and its sole Premier Division, transferring to it for 2008–09." => "Gedling was a founder member of the tenth-tier East Midlands Counties Football League (EMCFL) and its sole Premier Division for 2008–09."
  • Lee Wilson image caption needs a full stop
  • "Inclusion in the 2010–11 season was jeopardised in October " - I think simply "The club's future was jeopardised in October 2010" would read better
  • "The club's previous badge, used from 1997 at least" - "previous" doesn't work here because you haven't mentioned any other badge for it to be previous to
  • "The estimated cost had risen to £1 million" - the sums in the last sentence of the previous paragraph add up to £1M, so saying it had risen to £1M is odd
  • NCEFL is massively overlinked in the notes
  • That's what I got. Nice to see such dedication put into an article on a non-League team! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:02, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, ChrisTheDude. Everything done - and thanks for your kind words. Curlymanjaro (talk) 15:39, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - pass

[edit]

To follow. - SchroCat (talk) 13:12, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Sources are of high and reliable quality
  • Searches show no additional sources that are either stronger than those used, or that show anything missing
  • There is a bit of an issue with the formatting of the refs. Some refs are in sentence case, others have each word capitalised (sometimes in the same citation!), and these should be made consistent – ensuring that prepositions are lower case, (which they aren't in a couple of places). – SchroCat (talk) 13:25, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, @SchroCat! I just wrote the titles out verbatim. Anyway, they should all be standardised now. :) Curlymanjaro (talk) 22:02, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mike Christie

[edit]
  • I think it would be worth that Gedling is a village and borough near Stoke Bardolph. Is there any information on why the team changed its name? And I think it would be worth giving the date of the name change in the lead.
    • Sorry, somehow missed this the first time. No info on the change but I've explained the geography and put the date in the lead.
  • "SSR" is an odd name for a team -- do we know what it stands for? Was it a works-based team?
    • Sadly, the Football Post doesn't seem to provide any details on SSR's name or origin. Apparently they were still going in the Notts Amateur League in 1999.
  • No change necessary, but I'm curious: why were their first two seasons in the CML "technically separate" from the nationwide league system, as note c says? Our article on the CML says it's part of the NLS.
    • The two non-NLS divisions perceivably joined it in 2011 as per the FCHDB link. I don't know why they were excluded before.
  • Are Clifton Town worth a redlink?
    • Could do, although they're not listed on FCHDB and Clifton All Whites are the predominant team there.
  • "was not promoted consecutively": since they were in fact promoted the two previous consecutive seasons, I think this would be less ambiguous as something like "was not promoted in their first season in the division".
    • Done.
  • "Staged in November "under gruelling conditions", Notts won the match 2–1": needs rephrasing; as it stands this says Notts were staged in November, not the match.
    • Done.
  • "the team had found form by the following month": why "had"? We've been in simple past for most of this. Since the sentence ends with a statement of their finishing position, I can see there's a "looking back" from that point, but it doesn't parse well because the reader doesn't find that out till the end of the sentence.
    • Done.
  • "Gedling was one of four non-League clubs served by former England international Chris Waddle during this season": he played for them? The source isn't very specific, I see. Is there any other evidence of this? I had a look in our article on him and didn't find any mention of these teams. I would have thought local papers would mention this if he actually went out on the pitch for them.
    • According to this book, Waddle was dual-registered with Gedling and South Normanton Athletic in March 2003 before moving on to Stocksbridge Park Steels in April. Looks to be a self-published source though.
      I see you've used "served", which is how the other source phrases it, but if we don't know more than that about Waddle's involvement with the club I think we should drop the mention of him. He might have been involved with non-playing aspects of the club, or registered but never actually shown up to train or play. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:18, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • Done. An interesting factoid; it will be sorely missed!
  • "Division dropped by default due to creation of Conference North at level six": this refers to the 2004-05 season? The tier doesn't drop to 10 till after the season on which this note is placed; perhaps make it "Division dropped to 10 after this season as Conference North was created at level six" or something similar.
  • "In August 2012, the ground was taken over by Real United, a Nottingham-based football team aiming to keep young people away from drugs and gang culture. Real United in-turn renamed it as the Inspire Stadium." Suggest "In August 2012, Real United, a Nottingham-based football team aiming to keep young people away from drugs and gang culture, took over the ground and renamed it the Inspire Stadium."
    • Done.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:49, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much for your feedback, @Mike Christie. Some really useful comments. Curlymanjaro (talk) 15:17, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Not an issue, just a suggestion: you might consider bolding R & R Scaffolding in the lead and making a redirect for it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:37, 30 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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