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May 9

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Categories: Protected areas, National Forests, National Monuments, bird sanctuaries, wildlife sanctuaries of/in the United States

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: No change per this concurrent debate on the subject. Angus McLellan (Talk) 21:53, 24 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Multiple categories of such types "of" the US or sublocation to corresponding category "in" the US or sublocation.
Nominator's rationale: Multiple Renames. Per discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Protected areas#rename Protected areas categories, there are multiple categories of articles covered by WP:PAREAS that use incorrect "of" when "in" is called for. Protected areas are designated by the IUCN, a world-wide body, so protected areas in the United States or any subdivision are "in" the US or subdivision, they are not designations "of" the US or subdivision. The US also designates National Monuments and National Forests, which are "of the United States" but "in" any given state. Not designated by IUCN, but, similarly, there are bird sanctuaries and wildlife sanctuaries categories that are more properly described as "in" rather than "of". The US government may designate Bird Sanctuaries and Wildlife Sanctuaries, but the categories are best used to describe all such sanctuaries designated by anyone. This proposal to rename multiple categories this way is a follow-on to similar proposal, accepted and implemented, for renaming of National Historic Landmarks that are designated by the US government from "in state" to "of state" a while ago. I posted proposal to rename within WP:PAREAS, and I amended the proposal for some additional information. No comments were received; i interpret that is because this is a reasonable request. I am not requesting "speedy" treatment because there is no urgency, to provide for wider notice, and to allow for any comments/modifications. Note, i include in the "from" list of proposed "changes" a number of red-links, as there are no sanctuaries in some states, in order to verify completeness of the request and for ease of preparation of this request. It seems best to show categories for all states, even where non-existent. The proposal is not to create new empty categories; if/when implementing please disregard the non-existent categories. doncram (talk) 19:30, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please change from / to:






and note California has one extra:




























And note New York has two extras:




















and including also Washington, D.C.:


and including also:


Request is all the renames as noted above, except of course for where the "from" category does not exist.

  • Comment. What a long nomination! My concern is with 'Protected areas'. I'm concerned that it may be a bit ambiguous. It is clear from how it is used what is intended and that is the common name. But as a category name it is ambiguous. Since we are considering a mass rename, now would be a good time to consider this issue since the nomination is on the table. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:35, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Response Yes, it is huge, it took me a long time just now to edit in all the appropriate notices to every category affected. I agree you are right to be concerned about the term "protected area". It does seem ambiguous. I have raised related issues to this repeatedly in WP:PAREAS talk area, specifically about how the term has been misapplied (in my opinion) to various U.S. National Memorials such as Jefferson Memorial. I and several others seem to have a working consensus, consistent with the stated goal of the wikiproject, that the term should be applied to protected areas as defined by IUCN (and perhaps as listed in a database, WDPA), which mean environmental areas designated by a government to protect biological diversity and natural features, as opposed to "National" monuments that might merely designate a memorial but have no natural environment protection. I wonder if all occurences of "Protected area" should be changed to capital "Protected Area" and very clearly defined to refer to IUCN/WDPA-designated areas, only. See discussion in Talk of WP:PAREAS. However, in terms of this proposal, this proposal does accomplish the correction of "in" vs. "of". There are no "protected areas" formally designated as such by the US or any sub-government. So, while it might be an improvement to change "Protected area" to "Protected Area" in the proposal, if that could be supported by some consensus to create the formal term, in order to refer specifically to IUCN designated areas, the proposal as it stands would implement an improvement. I presume you do not oppose the proposal as it stands, you just wonder if it could be further improved? If that is correct, please also comment in WP:PAREAS, which unfortunately is not a very active wikiproject right now. I guess i feel that further modifications, from "Protected area in ___" to "Protected Area in ___" should be left to a later CFD. doncram (talk) 21:20, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • response Good point about the protected areas in the proposal. I actually was just noticing part of that problem, as i responded to a posting in Talk of wp:PAREAS about some protected areas in Canada. I am not sure about how the process here is supposed to work, but I will try expanding the proposal to include all of the other protected areas outside of the U.S. About the National Monuments and the National Forests, however, the comment does not apply. National Monuments and National Forests are "of" the U.S. and may be "in" but are not "of" any given state. Thanks. doncram (talk) 00:16, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • followup I created a separate proposal Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2008 May 13#Renames of categories for National Parks, Protected Areas, related categories world-wide to clean up related categories world-wide. If it is appropriate to extend the closing date of this proposal so that it closes simultaneously with the other proposal, that would be fine by me. The other proposal, consistently, systematically addresses the use of "national parks", a term which I perceive to be a wikipedia-only coined term. I propose to eliminate that in category titles, moving to "National Parks of COUNTRY" terminology instead, for National Parks designated by a given country. doncram (talk) 20:29, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • further followup That CFR proposal is going badly. User:Gnagarra there notes "I dont see any reason to propose wholesale changes just because your suggestion for US categories was questioned in relation to other country formats. I dont think I'll do much browsing of other country formats, as I dont see any reason to make such changes....", and it seems the consensus there may be that cleanups specific to one nation at a time are preferred. I would like for this US-specific proposal, here, to go through. doncram (talk) 17:22, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • P.S. I am hopeful that a revised proposal there, cleaning up use of just the Protected areas term, and avoiding thorny issues about the proper use of "National parks" as defined by states within the nation of Australia, will be accepted. doncram (talk) 17:00, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Fugitives wanted on sexual assault charges

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Kbdank71 13:02, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Fugitives wanted on sexual assault charges to Category:Fugitives wanted on sex crime charges
Nominator's rationale: Rename. I think category "Fugitives wanted on sexual assault charges" should be renamed as "Fugitives wanted on sex offense charges" or something similar. There are so many sex crimes other than "sexual assault", and the term itself seems to be overused. For example, John Mark Karr and Richard Steve Goldberg were fugitives wanted for possession of child pornography. Renaming would make things easier. Reverend X (talk) 18:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - categorizing fugitives on the basis of the type of crime they're alleged to have committed is overcategorization. It also raises WP:BLP concerns because, while the charges are a factual matter, tagging people as alleged sex offenders is highly controversial and should be left to articles, where the allegation can be properly sourced. Otto4711 (talk) 19:59, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • KeepRename per nom; if we're going to be in the business of categorizing fugitives, categorizing why they are fugitives seems entirely appropriate. I see no WP:BLP concerns: we aren't saying that they are sex criminals, merely that they are doing something somewhere else whilst they are wanted to answer somewhere for sex charges. As for sourcing, we have that same issue for convictions as well, but we categorize fraudsters, murderers and others for which categories are in the same position vis-a-vis fugitives. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:03, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • rename per nom for clarity and inclusiveness. Hmains (talk) 03:03, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:FBI Wanted Fugitives

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge with Category:Fugitives wanted by the United States. Kbdank71 13:03, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:FBI Wanted Fugitives (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: This category is useless, there is already category "Fugitives wanted by the United States". Reverend X (talk) 17:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People on British stamps

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Kbdank71 13:03, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:People on British stamps (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: The category is a cross-namespace redirect to List of people on stamps of the United Kingdom. That list contains several dozen entries, while the category contains only 3 articles. I don't actually have an opinion about whether this information should be compiled in the form of a list or a category, but it seems horribly confusing to have both. Russ (talk) 15:36, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Images uploaded by userFugitivedread

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Wizardman 04:06, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Images uploaded by userFugitivedread (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Delete. Category for individual user's uploaded photos, if allowed would set precedent to keep a similiar type of category for every user. Galleries are usually found on user subpages, there is no need to make a category for this. See similar precedent. VegaDark (talk) 14:03, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Game show card games

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Wizardman 04:10, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Game show card games (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Category is redundant, is not accurate (listing segments from a game show; not gameshows themselves), and seems to have little potential for growth. Modor (talk) 04:07, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kbdank71 13:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Irish of Iraqi descent

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge both to Category:Irish people of Iraqi descent. Kbdank71 13:06, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest merging Category:Irish of Iraqi descent to Category:Iraqi-Irish people
Nominator's rationale: Duplicate category created after the redirection of Category:Iraqi-Irish people and recategorisation of the only article in the category. I have reverted the redirect and undone the recategorisation, because this should have been brought to CFD. I make no recommendation either way other than to note that there is obviously no need for both categories. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:British military personnel of the Transvaal War

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Kbdank71 13:08, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:British military personnel of the Transvaal War to Category:British military personnel of the First Boer War
Nominator's rationale: Rename. Almost always referred to in English as the First Boer War, which is the title of the Wikipedia article on the war. Transvaal War is a pretty obscure name. The same also goes for Category:People of the Transvaal War and Category:British people of the Transvaal War. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:26, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Indian-Irish

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Kbdank71 13:09, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Indian-Irish to Category:Irish people of Indian descent
Nominator's rationale: Incomplete nomination, listed here purely to complete the procedure after the category was tagged. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:17, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:United Kingdom shipbuilders

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Kbdank71 13:10, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:United Kingdom shipbuilders to Category:British shipbuilders
Nominator's rationale: Rename. "British" is the descriptor used for pretty much every other category and has the advantage of being an adjective. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - given the preponderance of shipbuilders in Northern Ireland (about which there are continual arguments regarding the adjective "British"), this could be a thorny one. Grutness...wha? 00:31, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment. The category really only acts as a holding cat for subcats for the different countries of Britain. In any case, there is no compelling reason why this category should be different from 99% of others, which also include people from Northern Ireland. It's always possible to categorise Northern Irish people under both British and Irish cats. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:36, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Left wing activists‎

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Kbdank71 13:12, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Left wing activists (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Objective category, fails naming convention. Also would fails 3.1 neutrality. MrPrada (talk) 08:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Left wing activists‎ by nationality

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Kbdank71 13:12, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Left wing activists by nationality (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Objective category, fails naming convention. Also would fails 3.1 neutrality. MrPrada (talk) 08:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:AIDS reappraisal

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Kbdank71 13:15, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:AIDS reappraisal (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Comment This was originally tagged for speedy deletion, but probably should have been brought here instead for a renaming. The replacement category, Category:AIDS denialism, has already been created and the articles moved there. I originally opposed the deletion/move, but after a lengthy discussion I changed my mind. I do think that the discussion there should be preserved (perhaps transferred here?) if the category is deleted, but otherwise do not oppose the deletion/move. Sapphic (talk) 07:18, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Australian mobsters

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Australian criminals. Kbdank71 13:16, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Australian mobsters (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Delete. Mobster is a term that doesn't see widespread use when describing criminals and organised crime in Australia as far as my research efforts can determine. Longhair\talk 06:13, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Is the plan to sent the articles back to the parent category Category:Australian criminals? If so, I support deletion. -- Mattinbgn\talk 06:32, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. -- Longhair\talk 03:17, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - with prejudice - even the Australian media - notorious for picking up non Australian usage of english do not necessarily use such a term when referring to the various characters worthy of such a label SatuSuro 08:32, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - If I understand this correctly - you are answering my comment - not reading the discussion higher above - if I read it correctly myself - it is going back to australian criminals if there is sufficient support - which is what I would consider a less problematic term SatuSuro 03:56, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Um, no. My comment is not connected to yours. I'm saying I think the category should be kept as part of an overall classification scheme. If Australians object to the word "mobster" as being one that is not used in Australia, then I'm suggesting we find another one. "Criminal" is the general parent category, and I don't support a deletion of this category and an upmerge to the more general category. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:09, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Jewish astronauts

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Kbdank71 13:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Jewish astronauts (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Delete If "Jewish" here refers to religion, this is overcategorization by non-notable intersection because Jewish astronauts are not different from Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or atheist astronauts in any major way. See another CFD on a Muslims astronauts category (result there was "delete and listify"). If "Jewish" here refers to nationality or ethnic identity beyond religion, it is overcategorization because all of the individuals included are of American or Israeli nationality, and astronauts are generally considered to be from a country before we think of them as being from their other ethnic or cultural groups. What would an article called "Jewish astronauts" say that would be unique from Astronaut? See also ProveIt's long list of precedents deleting occupations by ethnicity or religion. In the past, categories for Jewish mathematicians, inventors, economists, and psychologists have been deleted. Notified creator with {{subst:cfd-notify}} Good Ol’factory (talk) 03:16, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep In the Muslim Cfd my comment was "Listify at least - these will be hard to find otherwise, & are certainly of interest. The trouble is only a couple were long-term astronauts, so most don't really fit in a "Muslims by occupation" category here." However, in this case the situation is different, as with the single exception of the Israeli Ilan Ramon all were or are long-term NASA astronauts, who belong in the 39-strong Category:Jews by occupation. Johnbod (talk) 03:26, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry? Not sure you have read my comment correctly. Johnbod (talk) 03:59, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm just unsure what your rationale for keeping this category is. What would an article called Jewish astronauts look like? People are defined by being an American astronaut, or an Israeli astronaut, but by being a Jewish astronaut? Like the Muslim one, it may be interesting, but how is it defining?
Where does this idea that every category in a tree must be capable of having an article come from? We don't have Brazilian politicians. Are you saying being Jewish is not defining? Johnbod (talk) 04:12, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't say it had to have an article, but I was thinking of this idea that it is a non-notable intersection unless an article could be written for the intersection:

"Dedicated group-subject subcategories, such as Category:LGBT writers or Category:African American musicians, should only be created where that combination is itself recognized as a distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right. If a substantial and encyclopedic head article (not just a list) cannot be written for such a category, then the category should not be created. Please note that this does not mean that the head article must already exist before a category may be created, but that it must at least be reasonable to create one. Likewise, people should only be categorized by ethnicity or religion if this has significant bearing on their career." (See WP:OCAT for this quote.)

The point is, one could write an article about Brazilian politicians. Not so much for Jewish astronauts. How does being Jewish have a "significant bearing on their career" as an astronaut? I am not saying being Jewish is not defining. Being Jewish is defining. Being an astronaut from a specific country is defining. But being a Jewish astronaut (an intersection) is not defining. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:16, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm finding Jewish astronauts rather easier to imagine than Brazilian politicians. When does Shabbat start in space? how to keep kosher? - all that. Johnbod (talk) 22:46, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Superheroes without aliases

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Kbdank71 13:21, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Superheroes without aliases (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Delete - no clear inclusion criteria for Japanese superheroes, like Son Goku and Son Gohan, who are categorized here. Unless there is a specific reason for this, I'd much rather prefer the deletion of this cat. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 03:10, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:People from Dominica

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: relisted on may 16. Kbdank71 13:38, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Propose 'merging' Category:People from Dominica to Category:Dominican people
Nominator's rationale: to match naming convention at Category:People by nationality and to match naming used for this page's sub-category pages. there's no need to maintain this page naming to avoid a mix-up with Category:Dominican Republic people as a statement of disambiguation at the top of the nominated page can handle this perfectly well enough Mayumashu (talk) 02:52, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Brest Province

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. Kbdank71 13:22, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest merging Category:Brest Province to Category:Brest Voblast
Nominator's rationale: There is only Voblast in Belarus, and per the tree system. Matthew_hk tc 02:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Hospitals

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename all. Kbdank71 13:23, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming Category:Hospitals in Baltimore to Category:Hospitals in Baltimore, Maryland
Propose renaming Category:Hospitals in Baltimore County to Category:Hospitals in Baltimore County, Maryland
Propose renaming Category:Hospitals in Clark County to Category:Hospitals in Clark County, Nevada
Propose renaming Category:Hospitals in Las Vegas to Category:Hospitals in Las Vegas, Nevada
Propose renaming Category:Hospitals in Omaha to Category:Hospitals in Omaha, Nebraska
Propose renaming Category:Hospitals in Philadelphia to Category:Hospitals in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Propose renaming Category:Hospitals in Pittsburgh to Category:Hospitals in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Propose renaming Category:Hospitals in Seattle to Category:Hospitals in Seattle, Washington
Nominator's rationale: Per recent "city, state" precedents. All other categories of this type have the state listed.--Mike Selinker (talk) 02:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Latin American and Iberian Britons

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. This seems to be a very large mess, which will require much manual work before a solution can be found. Regardless of which way this should go, deletion or renaming, or splitting, some people need to be removed based upon what descent they are from. I recommend doing this prior to a re-nomination. Kbdank71 13:41, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Latin American and Iberian Britons (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Delete Nominator's rationale: almost entirely incidental combination of ethnicities/nationalities for Britons, without precedent as a category page and without corresponding article page Mayumashu (talk) 02:03, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment What a mess! The lack of a corresponding article is not an issue in these categories, but this combination is far too wide. Many Gibraltarians who always lived in Gibraltar are included too, yet the Gibraltarian cats are not here as sub-cats. Dominic Miller may well be the child of expats, by the sound of it - born in Argentina, but then grew up in the US & UK. There is an exhaustive section on the "Family background" of Charles Palmer-Tomkinson which has no "Hispanic" element mentioned at all. On the other hand there are a lot of articles here, and apart from Brazil, Equador and Mexico, there is no category for the rest of the Middle and South Americans. This should be repurposed as just for them, with the existing American cats still beneath, but not the Spanish and Portuguese. But someone needs to go through removing the Europeans, Brazilians etc while checking they are in the right cats already (which most seem to be), and removing ones with no mention of Hispanicity in their articles. I would not support a straight deletion. Johnbod (talk) 03:08, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well concensus here seems to be to separate them out of the current lump. Johnbod (talk) 12:55, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
A "full-blooded Guarani" wouldn't be of Latin American descent, now would they! The term implies at least some Spanish or Portuguese blood. Or does in Britain at least. I fail to see why you hate these ethnic categories so much. People's descent is important to them, so why not to Wikipedia? Categorising people by occupation and ethnic origin is fairly pointless, but not by nationality and ethnic origin. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:51, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see that myself - I think it means anyone from Latin America, regardless of ethnicity. Johnbod (talk) 12:55, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose it depends whether you're referring to a Latin American country or a Latin American person. For the former I'd agree with you, for the latter I wouldn't. This category obviously does largely refer to the former, since its subcats refer to countries, but Carlossuarez46's comment referred to the latter. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

some category pages for British people by ethnic or national origin

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename/merge all. Kbdank71 13:28, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming/merging

*Category:Anglo-Scots to Category:English people of Scottish descentremoved by nominator as per comments provided - there needs to be Cat:Eng p of Scot. desc and Cat:Scot p. of Eng. desc. both set up as some point as sub-cats for this cat page Mayumashu (talk) 13:34, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(Scots not included in this nom. as these pages present the additional problem of deciding whether it should be 'Scots by Fooian descent' (the more concise) or 'Scottish people of Fooian descent' (matching English, French, Dutch pattern))

Nominator's rationale: what is meant by the name (British people of Fooian descent, although some cat pages listed as it stands include both Britons of Fooian descent and Fooians of British descent mixed), is more self-evident with this naming pattern, which has been becoming the conventional one on wikip. (Some people presently listed on these pages may not be citizens of the U.K. - will purge pages of expats, other non-British citizens should the nomination go through) Mayumashu (talk) 00:54, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
why have this exception? those who have kept Irish citizenship and have British citizenship too would, where warranted, listed both as Irish (of British descent) and British of Irish descent. on the other hand, Irish in Britain w/o British citizenship are listed at Category:Irish expatriates in the United Kingdom. Agree fully though that pre-1923 people native to Ireland were (many to their chagrin, be that as it was) British Mayumashu (talk) 03:32, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest you read some of the articles relating to Northern Ireland for a start. Identification as British is objectionable to many of these people, and there is no obligation or advantage in them taking British citizenship. Category:Irish expatriates in the United Kingdom has precisely 4 members. Johnbod (talk) 04:04, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Still not a problem as someone from NI who takes Irish citizenship and not British and resides in NI is then an Irish expat in the UK. Mayumashu (talk) 04:15, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No, they are not, or at least that is an unacceptably POV way of putting it. Johnbod (talk) 00:40, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment These proposed changes are problematic as quite a few of the people in these categories were actually born in these countries so to describe them as being of x descent is somewhat misleading. Also with the Category:Anglo-French people category, I limited it to people with at least a French grandparent. If we use the "descent" naming, this could encourage people of very distant descent to be added making the categories overly large and of little use. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel (talk) 12:14, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think it s a valid point. immigrants should have their own cat pages (some have been started up). I think though that there needs to some link and that making immigrant cat page links to descent ones is one answer. another one could be to collect immigrants, people of descent and expats under umbrella diaspora cat page like is in place now for Indians, Category:Indian diaspora by country. and to the other point you ve raised, I state above that I will purge non British citizens from these lists (I ll also start up Fooian of British or English descent where the need arises) Mayumashu (talk) 15:44, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Would you limit the distance of the ancestor in these descent categories? If this proposal goes through the French category should be changed to Category:British people of French descent not just English. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel (talk) 10:29, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see this as an issue myself. The proposed treatment follows that throughout the tree. first-generation immigrants can have their own sub-cats if necessary. Johnbod (talk) 00:40, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
'Trinidadian and Tobagan' would mean from both constitute parts of the country, not just either one. perhaps 'Category:Hong Kong people should be Category:Hong Kongese people but until that page is changed, I disagree that this one should be different Mayumashu (talk) 20:22, 11 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Mayumushu. Is "Hong Kongese" ever used? I've certainly never heard it. -- Necrothesp (talk) 23:09, 11 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes - Please change them back; noms should not be altered on a whim in the middle of the process like this. Have you checked if the ones you changed to "English" have Scottish cats? Johnbod (talk) 00:40, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done. -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Johnbod (talk) 22:48, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, there was a good reason for changing to British not English, firstly since we need to include people from Wales and a Welsh category for each of these ethnicities would be too small, as well as the fact that many people in Ireland also used to be considered British. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel (talk) 11:16, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The entire Category:Welsh people by ethnic or national origin and subs contains just 15 people (Jews and Italians). I imagine that in practice "England" here is taken to mean "England and Wales", or Welsh people are put in British categories. To say "many people in Ireland also used to be considered British" suggests you are not exactly up to speed with the complexities in this area. Category:Anglo-Italians does in fact have Scottish and Welsh sub-cats, but renaming it to British is not the way to go; it should be renamed to English, and a new British parent added above all 3 sub-cats (since the Anglo category does appear to be all-English. Johnbod (talk) 11:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Welsh people should not be put into English categories, but neither should all English categories be renamed to include non-English people. Think how the Scots and Welsh would react if their categories were so renamed! -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:39, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Good point - that one should be kept, as it seems to be a complete mixture, and for the moment ambiguity/having it both ways is the only accurate name. A new Category:English people of Scottish descent should be set up, in the hope someone feels like sorting them correctly. Johnbod (talk) 00:53, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. They should probably be better sorted into Category:English people of Scottish descent and Category:Scottish people of English descent, but for now the category should be left as is. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:39, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete useless racial/ethnic categories; per my other comments on the racial/ethnic categories all up for debate here. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:24, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • If these were truly defining someone would add Scottish, German, Greek, Danish, Dutch, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, French, Norse, and no doubt a bunch more to various members of the royal family whose descent from various people from those countries (whether ethnically or politically) is fairly well documented - presuming legitimacy, which we do for all the less well-born biographies in matters racial, ethnic, and religious.... Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:28, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Plenty of them have these. Johnbod (talk) 00:53, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well yes, if their ancestry is recent then there's no reason not to include them in the categories. Is anyone saying there is? These categories seem to assume that at least one grandparent should be of that ethnicity/nationality for a person to qualify, which would make some royals eligible, but not all by any means. I think that's a fairly good qualifying standard. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:39, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Rename All the articles English people of.....descent should be renamed British people of......descent, for simplicity. Stevvvv4444 (talk) 13:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Disambig-Class XXX articles

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: procedural close; 1) a change this major needs more than the nom and one comment. 2) what categories, exactly, are being nominated here? I'm not about to go check everything that starts with "Category:Disambig-Class" and ends in "articles". And from the lack of discussion, neither is anyone else. If relisting is desired, please list all of the categories you want renamed. If you don't know how, ask me. 3) Due to #2, I can't tell if any of the categories have been tagged. . Kbdank71 13:34, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming all of the Disambig-Class articles categories to pages:
Nominator's rationale: Disambig pages are not articles, as WP:WPDAB has stated, and many major projects have used the pages convention. MrKIA11 (talk) 00:26, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - virtually all of these categories are populated by templates, so whoever closes this nomination (if the renaming is approved) needs to ensure that all of the templates in question are updated. --Russ (talk) 15:39, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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