Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zoya Smirnow

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Black Kite (talk) 17:08, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Zoya Smirnow

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Not notable on her own. Tried looking for sources to expand the article and failed. The sources provided also do not go into detail. In the first source provided, she's mentioned once in a list, and the second seems to only be a name drop as well. If it was possible to expand in the slightest surely someone would have in the eight years the article has existed. Wizardman 16:08, 9 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. Shivam Setu (U-T-C) 18:20, 9 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Shivam Setu (U-T-C) 18:20, 9 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:45, 10 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or merge to List of wartime cross-dressers. Being an ignored article is not her fault, it's Wikipedia's. The act of cross-dressing to go to war is amazing so it's better not to lose this information. Sportfan5000 (talk) 17:39, 10 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Amazing or not, it does not confer notability, and "better not to lose this information" is an argument to avoid. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 00:25, 11 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  - I see no reason why they subject can't be easily merged into the list article. If this had just been merged there in the first place I think everyone would have been fine with it. Sportfan5000 (talk) 02:17, 11 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    - None of the information is verifiable, so there is nothing to merge. Even a redirect might be pushing it given that there is no mention of really anything of this era in that article. Wizardman 05:00, 11 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      - Salmonson, Jessica Amanda (1991). The Encyclopedia of Amazons. Paragon House. Page 236. ISBN 1-55778-420-5 seems to verify every word. There is a couple of foreign language books I can't access, on from 1917. Sportfan5000 (talk) 05:54, 11 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, good deal of secondary source discussion. — Cirt (talk) 04:52, 11 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Where exactly is this secondary source discussion? The two sources noted in the article only mention a name and that's it, no detail is gone into at all. Wizardman 04:59, 11 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Bushranger _{One ping only} 11:43, 20 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Nothing about her makes her notable. She was part of a larger group.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:32, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:GNG. The story was initially reported in English newspapers (plural). One paper was Secolo, can't say which others but the fact is verifiable in the 1930 book by Magnus Hirschfeld titled Sexual History Of The World War (pg. 100). This source also contains more details about the girl's story, to expand the article. A reason Zoya is the title of this group is she is the one who recounted the story to the press, she seems to be representative of the group. -- GreenC 04:02, 24 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW this is one of the books targeted for destruction (burning) by the German government during the 1930s. The title page cautions: "Intended for circulation among mature educated persons only." -- GreenC 04:18, 24 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If she's "representative of the group", then she needs to be merged and redirected to the group at List of wartime cross-dressers. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 13:44, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Right, she should be included in List of wartime cross-dressers. Done. This AfD is about whether this topic should have a standalone article. A "merge" to a list article would delete content and anyway a number of people want a standalone article since there are multiple secondary sources over a long period of time (contemporary WWI newspapers, a famous 1930 book, modern sources). She is representative in the sources of the group of 12, not of wartime cross-dressers generally. -- GreenC 16:07, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Then perhaps we should have an article about the group of twelve, then? - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 13:25, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There are good arguments either way. The reason for Smirnow is because it was her testimony that brought the group to public attention, so she is the central figure in the story and sources, since it's reported from her POV. She has significant coverage the others don't. But there is the problem that we know nothing about her beyond this "event" (not in a BLP1E/OE sense), and the general trend seems to have event articles before bio articles. One could argue it either way. -- GreenC 14:51, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.