Talk:Vyshyvanka

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And how exactly is this piece of clothing exclusively Ukrainian like the article wants the reader to believe? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.39.231.46 (talk) 17:03, 7 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. I changed it to Old East Slavic. This article is about Vyshyvanka (the name) for clothing primarily (not exclusively) Ukrainian worn in the territory now called Ukraine. Other names for a similar garment were used in other areas. For example, the Russian garment is Kosovorotka and the structure of the garment is different. If you have more specific information, let's discuss it please. USchick (talk) 13:33, 8 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Should the article be renamed then to "Traditional embroidered shirt"? That would be more correct than usage of a name borrowed from just some of the languages. As far as I see, there is no specific term for that garment in English dictionaries.--Roman Riabenko (talk) 07:42, 22 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It appears to be somehow distinct by embroidery technique. ″Vyshyvanka – the traditional folk Ukrainian shirt ... In most of the cases it is a white or black shirt with embroidered sleeves and small collar″.^{[Ukrainian Vyshyvanka 1]} ″The vyshyvanka – the colloquial name for an embroidered shirt – is perhaps the most well-known and well-loved item in the Ukrainian wardrobe. ... Whilst Ukrainian national costume has perhaps become overly political in recent times, its role in defining space must not be overlooked. The vyshyvanka not only speaks of its Ukrainian origin but also of the particular region in which it was made. The knowing eye could detect where a person hailed from by the clothes on their back. Embroidery is thus an important craft within Ukraine and different techniques exist to suit local styles with their own particular patterns and colours. Traditionally, the thread was coloured according to local formulas using bark, leaves, flowers, berries and so on. In this way, the local environment is literally reflected in the colour of the embroidery″.^{[Ukrainian Vyshyvanka 2]} From that, it is possible to conclude that vyshyvanka is the traditional folk Ukrainian shirt with Ukrainian embroidery which is locally specific.--Roman Riabenko (talk) 11:05, 30 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Following from the above, the first paragraph of the article should be changed as follows:

Vyshyvanka (Ukrainian: ″Вишива́нка″ [ʋɪʃɪˈʋanka] or ″Виши́ванка″ [ʋɪˈʃɪʋanka]) is the colloquial name for the embroidered shirt in Ukrainian national costume^{[Ukrainian Vyshyvanka 1][Ukrainian Vyshyvanka 2]}. Vyshyvanka is distinguished by local embroidery features specific to Ukrainian embroidery:^{[Ukrainian Vyshyvanka 2]}

The vyshyvanka not only speaks of its Ukrainian origin but also of the particular region in which it was made. The knowing eye could detect where a person hailed from by the clothes on their back. Embroidery is thus an important craft within Ukraine and different techniques exist to suit local styles with their own particular patterns and colours. Traditionally, the thread was coloured according to local formulas using bark, leaves, flowers, berries and so on. In this way, the local environment is literally reflected in the colour of the embroidery.

— JJ Gurga, Echoes of the Past: Ukrainian Poetic Cinema and the Experiential Ethnographic Mode

Please, provide your opinion on the suggestion.--Roman Riabenko (talk) 19:32, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No one else seems being interested, so I am moving the suggested material into the article.--Roman Riabenko (talk) 10:53, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In Belarus, they introduced their own Vyshyvanka Day. The article needs to be updated to include Belarusian vyshyvanka provided that reliable sources can be found. Taking into account that both Ukraine and Belarus identify a vyshyvanka as part of their national identity, it appears that those are different vyshyvankas and should not be mixed up in the article.--Roman Riabenko (talk) 14:55, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to Wikipedia, anonymous contributors! Please, assume me acting in good faith, see WP:GF. You could review the edits history of the article to confirm that, but I will save you the trouble. When I started working on the article in 2016, I was curious how diverse people like Ukrainians can claim that there is a national costume that unites them all. To my disappointment, at that time, the article did not cite any adequate sources about what culture vyshyvanka belongs to. So I conducted my own research for sources confirming "Ukrainian", "Slavic", "East Slavic", "Ruthenian", "Russian", and "Belarusian" vyshyvanka. At that time, I found reliable sources only for Ukrainian vyshyvanka. That was a progress. From that time on, I am monitoring changes to this page and review the cited sources in the hope that the article will be further developed. In 2018, I came across sparse reliable sources for Belarusian vyshyvanka. But the reliable sources for a "Russian vyshyvanka" are still missing. All of the proposed reliable sources just call the Russian embroidered shirt an "embroidered shirt" or Kosovorotka or differently, but not a "vyshyvanka". I have no opportunity to come to Russia and check what they national costume is. Even if I could, Wikipedia would not accept my knowledge as a reliable source. Please, see WP:RS and WP:V to understand what is the problem and how to fix it. This is not my requirement, it is a requirement from Wikipedia. Once you find a reliable source for your claims, you are welcome to add that to the article and enlighten me and the others.

As to the statement that the words "vyshyvat" and "vyshsyvanka" are in Russian language, that is likely true. To check that, it is enough to find a Russian language dictionary that has the word. But that does not mean that it is of Russian origin, see Etymology. To state in the article that the word "vyshyvanka" has a certain origin, we will need a reliable source for it. Unfortunately, the article is currently missing any sources on its origin, but you are welcome to fix that.

I hope that the above clarifies the issue and will save me the pain of reviewing further edits.--Roman Riabenko (talk) 14:24, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello!,

since the Ukranian Language decendet from the Russian and the Polish language and the Polish word is different one i guess its pretty save to say that it decendet from the Russian word "vyshyvat".

2. As i am guessing from your name i am pretty sure that you are form either russia belarus or the ukraine. I am pretty sure that you know for yourself that "vyshsyvankas" are worn and made in all 3 East slavic countries.

They only differ by the stiching pattern because each region has their own. https://voenflot.ru/blytov-viktor-aleksandrovich/blytov-v-russkie-narodnye-traditsii-russkaya-natsionalnaya-odezhda here a litte article

Disregarding your false and nationalistic claims about the origins of Ukrainian language and the word "vyshsyvanka", even your own source doesn't call Russian embroidered shirts as "vyshyvankas". Which is exactly what Roman is saying. – There are obvious differences between the national costumes, and that's why they have different articles in Wikipedia. --Amakuha (talk) 22:27, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is not safe to say that all Russian words have Russian origin. Please read Этимология on Russian Wikipedia for examples and further information.

As to your second question, I already told that I do not know and cannot rely on my experience. People wear all kind of embroidered garments and call them whatever they want. It is especially suspicious when they take cheap garments with modern machine embroidery and call them traditional. —Roman Riabenko (talk) 01:14, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ukrainian descended from Russian? Boy, have you got that backwards! And that's part of the lie that Putin has used in his illegal moves. 147.194.144.207 (talk) 14:07, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The word derives from the root word "Shyti", a verb meaning "to sew". "Vyshyti" then literally means "to sew out", translating metaphorically as "to embroider". "Vyshyvanka" is then the noun from that. Thus, the word accurately translates as "embroidery", even though it is USUALLY used in the context of a shirt or blouse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:E48C:E601:44A6:C03A:78B9:3AE4 (talk) 10:57, 3 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to Wikipedia, @Kakowuk! Thank you for your willingness to improve the article. Currently, it covers only vyshyvankas in Ukraine and Belarus, but if there is anything that you would like to elaborate on vyshyvankas in "other Slavic and Eastern European countries" as you stated in your edits, you are welcome to update the article. Please note that the article does not simply tell about an embroidered shirt. Are you sure that the garment that you are considering is actually the one which is known as vyshyvanka?

It is usually not necessary to add sources for well-known facts in Wikipedia articles. But it is not well-known whether there are vyshyvankas in "other Slavic and Eastern European countries", so we will need to have it backed up with sources. Please, tell where you found that. As you can see from the article, various authors consider vyshyvanka to be a part of the national identity of the people in Ukraine and Belarus respectively. Thus, stating that there are vyshyvankas in other countries is controversial and requires care and scrutiny.

Since you are not indicating what are those "other Slavic and and Eastern European countries", the statement is so vague that it is difficult to verify. Does it just imply that vyshyvankas are allegedly not unique to Ukraine and Belarus? If so, where else can it be found? Considering that you added its name in Polish, do you mean that there are Polish vyshyvankas too?

Stating something like this in the lead section without a reference to the sources may appear like a summary on the details in the article. So, keeping it there just like this may mislead the readers. It needs to be improved or reversed. -- Roman Riabenko (talk) 13:47, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore, trying to identify countries associated with a garment seems to be an error-prone and counter-productive approach. A garment is a product of a culture, not of a country or a state. Thus, it may appear in different countries and states along with the people maintaining a specific culture. -- Roman Riabenko (talk) 14:48, 23 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]