Talk:Elon Musk/Archive 20

This is an archive of past discussions about Elon Musk. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

A business magnate is essentially both. It is a more clear way of writing it, like it is done in the articles for Carlos Slim and Li Ka-shing for example. PhotographyEdits (talk) 19:53, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

In general we've been trying to move away from business magnate and similar because they're value laden labels (its likely that Slim and Li will have it removed at some point), to quote liberally from the page you linked "Such individuals have been known by different terms throughout history, such as robber barons, captains of industry, moguls, oligarchs, plutocrats, or tai-pans." Horse Eye's Back (talk) 20:08, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I do think that 'businessman' understates his importance and power. A person with a net worth of 100k USD is also a businessman, but not really a magnate. I would argue using a stronger term here is better. PhotographyEdits (talk) 09:35, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

A person who identified as a man with 100x money as him who earned it in a similar way would also be a businessman... The second half of the sentence speaks to the importance and power. I would also note that a person with a net worth of zero may also be a business man as can someone with a net worth of negative one billion... Businessman doesn't suggest an income level. If its importance and power you wish to convey than a different value laden label like "plutocrat" or "oligarch" would fit your purposes better, but I don't think we should be using any value laden labels at all. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:16, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Second. QRep2020 (talk) 13:40, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

As the FAQ notes, the phrase "business magnate" in this article was a perennial target for frivolous edit requests. 2601:642:4600:D3B0:B948:CE1F:F8AA:83BB (talk) 17:30, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

That was a pun from himself it seems, and we obviously do not have to honor that one. But it does not object against 'business magnate' it seems. PhotographyEdits (talk) 09:32, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Err yes it does Q2: Can you update the article to call Musk a "business magnet"? (No.) A2: No... that seems a pretty clear objection. Slatersteven (talk) 10:51, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

it says business *magnet* not business *magnATE*. It is a pun from Musk. PhotographyEdits (talk) 12:47, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

OK, but the talk page archive has the question of "magnATE" raised (and rej4ected), many times. Maybe we need to add this to the FAQ? Slatersteven (talk) 12:54, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Check the archives. We discussed this at length already. QRep2020 (talk) 19:48, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

AFAIK, there was no consensus to remove business magnate in the last two discussions (here and here), but the same two editors who wanted it removed invoked WP:BLPRESTORE and that was it. Ptrnext (talk) 06:25, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

The point in regard to the FAQ is that "business magnate" was a target of disruption, and I promise you that it would be again if it were restored. Musk fans struggle mightily with comedic timing. 2601:642:4600:D3B0:B494:44BE:C294:C4E0 (talk) 02:47, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

This edit request to Elon Musk has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In the Politics subheading of the Other Activities section, should [this story] about Musk forming America PAC and how it is potentially farming swing state voter data be included in the paragraph about his support of Trump's campaign? Coalah (talk) 04:44, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

The story is covered in the WP article about America PAC so I think it warrants inclusion here, as well. Coalah (talk) 04:47, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Added that Musk said he "created" America PAC. QRep2020 (talk) 22:13, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

This edit request to Elon Musk has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

He is of Canadian and maybe Pennsylvania Dutch descent, if the Pennsylvania Dutch were the ones who settled in South Africa. Otherwise he is of Canadian and South African descent. He was able to get a Canadian citizenship via his mother. He couldn't have done that if she was British. Please do not insult Canada by implying that we are British, we are not. We may have started from British settlers but so did America. Would you call someone of American descent British, too? Canada has been an independent country for more almost 160 years, please remember from now on that we are a separate country from England and the UK. I really like the UK, but to call us British is just as bad as calling us American, or calling Austrians, German. Theshowmecanuck (talk) 00:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 01:44, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Y’all really gave him a sad sad main photo. I object to this change. Alexysun (talk) 10:11, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

This edit request to Elon Musk has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Elon musk got rich from selling nudesCite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page). 73.129.26.236 (talk) 05:21, 27 August 2024 (UTC) Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 05:22, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Currently, the main image in the infobox is an image from 2023. However, a more recent image taken by me of Musk at a conference in Montana last March may be better as it is more recent. I would like to know what you all think Wcamp9 (talk) 03:29, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

looks like he got manbewbs in that pic 122.54.207.116 (talk) 00:15, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

At this point, we have cycled through several images in the past month. I recommend we stick with the current selection and leave it be for now. Towards that, I will add a comment to the article's source code asking that future image changes be first discussed here. QRep2020 (talk) QRep2020 (talk) 02:30, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

@Wcamp9 To be frank, it’s a bad photo. It makes him look sad. Alexysun (talk) 10:12, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

The current image is low-quality. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 00:09, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

The images that are getting replaced in infobox are all of low-quality/low-resolution. I have reinstated the last stable, high-quality/high-resolution image of Musk to the infobox. Svampesky (talk) 03:45, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

This edit request to Elon Musk has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

(EDUCATION) where he earned two degrees: a Bachelor of Arts in economics, and a Bachelor of Science in physics from the university's Wharton School. (Interchange the words physics and economics words) Shadabqurashi (talk) 05:54, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Bunnypranav (talk) 08:28, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

The profile image keeps getting changed. It is probably the least important element from an encyclopedic standpoint and yet gets so much editor attention as of late. Can we please decide on a semi-permanent image? 22:50, 6 September 2024 (UTC) QRep2020

@QRep2020 I put the image back to the most recent 2023 image rather than keep the current image where he looks unkempt. From WP:BLPIMAGE "mages of living persons should not be used out of context to present a person in a false or disparaging light. This is particularly important for police booking photographs (mugshots), or situations where the subject did not expect to be photographed." Several of the images people have used were from different angles or were in crowd situations where he wasn't expecting a photograph. The one I now put back is from an official photo when he was expected to be photographed. Ergzay (talk) 23:47, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

@Wcamp9 I suggest discussing before changing the image. Pinging you as you've changed the image several times. Ergzay (talk) 23:51, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

This [[1]] seems to be a crisper image. Slatersteven (talk) 14:49, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

This is a charged and controversial statement presented as if it were an established fact, which does not adhere to Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View policy. If it is to remain in the article, its placement should be altered and rephrased as (for example): "several commentators and media outlets have described Musk as a conservative political activist". BozzaNova69 (talk) 03:42, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

I agree, While (no doubt) RS can be found for saying it, it is also very much this year's news story. But I am unsure that (in the great scheme of things) this is part of his notability, rather his notably is why this is getting coverage. Slatersteven (talk) 09:40, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

I agree, it should be removed or put in another section of the article. Opok2021 (talk) 21:02, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

I removed it as it violates MOS:ROLEBIO. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:26, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Good to hear, thank you. Opok2021 (talk) 02:27, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

This edit request to Elon Musk has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please change the first line calling Musk a “businessman” to add that he is a “conspiracy theorist.” While he is a businessman, the main reason why people know him and speak about him is because his conspiracy theory comments. 136.34.40.1 (talk) 21:49, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. - FlightTime (open channel) 21:50, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Why is she not listed as one of Musk's partners in the infobox? I mean she has 3 children with him. 68.187.65.220 (talk) 11:57, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Do RS say she is a partner, or just that she had had kids with him? Slatersteven (talk) 12:01, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

We have some, but most don't call her that they just refer to her as an employee and baby mama. Do we have an actual consensus on whether repeat baby mamas count as partners for wiki purposes? One pregnancy I get it, lots of ways for that to happen... But two pregnancies, three kids, and cohabitating? Thats a partner of some kind... Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:22, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

The wealth section has been shrunk down to two sentences. If it's only worth two sentences of summary I don't think it deserves its top-level section and the page that was created with the content is pretty small itself. Ergzay (talk) 05:50, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

As it is going to change it will never be much use. Slatersteven (talk) 13:53, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

@Slatersteven "Never be much use" is kind of my point. If it's not important, it should be re-arranged to not be a top level entry at least. Ergzay (talk) 09:47, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

I think this needs a sentence distillation, surely. Electricmaster (talk) 16:33, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

As disgusting as it is, I doubt the story will last or that there will be any impact on anyone. Trump's statement that "Taylor Swift will pay a price for endorsing Kamala Harris" is much more dangerous. O3000, Ret. (talk) 17:55, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Either way, it should be mentioned. Musk does have a reported and found in court history of sexual harassment and flatly his commentary should be included to that. Coasterghost (talk) 00:00, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Is he saying that he wants Taylor Swift to be the mother of his 13th child or is he saying that he wants her to adopt one of his 12 known children? Have any reliable sources discussed this ambiguity? Cullen328 (talk) 03:12, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I think the meaning is pretty clear, but here are some interpretations in the press:

• https://variety.com/2024/digital/news/elon-musk-father-child-taylor-swift-disgust-creepy-1236140915/ - "Pro-Trump multibillionaire Elon Musk, the richest person in the world, was blasted on his X social media platform for suggesting he would impregnate Taylor Swift after she endorsed Kamala Harris for president and signed her post “Childless Cat Lady.”
• https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/elon-musk-taylor-swift-child-1235099654/ - "And it seems that at least one major Trump supporter, the always-thirsty Elon Musk, thought he could weave viral magic by responding to her with an offer of insemination."

QRep2020 (talk) 04:01, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I think that it is interesting that Variety used the phrase "12 known children". Those two sources clearly interpret his intention as "have unprotected sex with her" as opposed to "get rid of an unwanted kid by sending one of his multiple toddlers to her". Cullen328 (talk) 04:39, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Rolling Stone is not reliable for politics. Trump says plenty of outlandish statements, yet his article is mostly barren of them. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 05:49, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

The RS article isn't cited for reporting political facts, but for describing a seemingly gross parasocial interaction as such. I can remove the political drapery from the quotation if that helps. QRep2020 (talk) 14:01, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

New York Magazine: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/elon-musk-taylor-swift-response-worse-than-you-think.html - "Musk is openly sexually harassing Swift on X for expressing a political opinion; he has previously been accused of sexual misconduct (which he denies). And the remark ties in with other weird and unsettling things the billionaire has said. Musk — who has fathered at least 12 children with three women — is obsessed with low birth rates, which has led to him spreading the “great replacement theory,” a white-supremacist conspiracy theory (though he says he doesn’t “subscribe to that”)." Coasterghost (talk) 08:53, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@Coasterghost He deleted and apologized for making the tweet that _could be interpreted_ as supporting great replacement theory, calling it "one of the most foolish, if not the most foolish, thing I've done". The wikipedia page itself talks about that. He never made any statement outright expressing it. And secondly being obsessed with low birth rates has nothing to do with replacement theory nonsense. Many people (myself included) in many countries on earth are obsessed with low birth rates and very few of them subscribe to white-supremacist nonsense. Ergzay (talk) 05:39, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

@Ergzay And? Just because he deleted and apologized for it doesn't make it as if it never has happened. with. Given the United States political climate, and his support of Trump, and JD Vance's (Republican Vice President Running-mate) obsession about childless adults its very easy to connect the dots. Also the sheer fact of his 'offer' can be constituted alone on sexual harassment, which is a notion that I brought up in the quote. Additionally he has reshared content that is directly pointed to the great replacement theory. This has been covered by online media as well. So say what you will, but his apology is for all intents and purposes moot considering the views he has repeatedly shared. Mind you we are talking about a man, a United States Defense Contractor via SpaceX who is now on the radar of the United States Secret Service for his postings given the second assassination attempt of Donald Trump. Coasterghost (talk) 13:44, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

@Coasterghost You didn't respond to what I wrote and instead chose to talk on unrelated topics. You should review WP:SOAPBOX. Ergzay (talk) 09:52, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

@Ergzay I did respond. First and Foremost, the quote that I shared from the New York Magazine was talking about him sexually harassing Taylor Swift and the inclusion of that quote was to add an additional source citing that is reliable for politics. New York Magazine is reliable for politics.

Secondly, going to your comment which you took particular notice to the inclusion on the the great replacement theory in the quote I had used. While he did not explicitly type it out, he has indicated through this actions that he does indeed support the great replacement theory. To quote The New Republic (which is marked reliable for politics) story that I linked after the mention of his tweet; But even if you accept this bogus distinction, the video Musk is actively endorsing—his pinned tweet said, “This is actually happening!”—absolutely does allege a vast conspiracy. It describes an “open borders plan to entrench single party rule,” in which congressional Democrats and the White House deliberately allow in “millions” and “keep them in the country at all costs,” all for the purpose of ensuring “their loyalty to the political party that imported them.” That fits pretty well into the wording on the great replacement theory in the United States page.

Furthermore, his comments regarding Taylor Swift offering her a child after she endorsed Kamala Harris, was interpreted by many as offering to father her child and I was connecting that to his endorsement for the 2024 election.

At the end of the day he did sexually harass Taylor Swift and that should potentially be noted in addition to his apology. However, there needs to be a discussion about his mentioning his defacto endorsement to the great replacement theory, because his actions speak louder then words. Coasterghost (talk) 13:08, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

This is more soap boxing and not related to what my comment reply was primarily about. You should look narrowly on what I actually wrote and not try to soap box on the wider topic. You should also review WP:RGW. Ergzay (talk) 15:43, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

You are focused on his viewpoint of the Great Replacement Theory and his pseudo apology. That is what I am answering. His quote that you mentioned explicitly "one of the most foolish, if not the most foolish, thing I've done" is from November 29, 2023. It was also about posts the White House called “antisemitic and racist hate." The post that I am referring to, in my rebuttal to you is from March 19th of 2024. His apology does not give him carte blanche to continue to act with willful ignorance. Additionally the tweet at the heart of this, the Taylor Swift tweet is still up. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1833728804579111268 Coasterghost (talk) 17:03, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Here’s two men who have been given all kinds of trips, money, fame, intelligence, and they consider others their property. Trump says he can grab any woman’s junk anytime anywhere. Something to that effect. Elon Musk chooses to hang around this man! The two of them create one of the grossest American pictures I can think of! These two man are so full of themselves, they’ll destroy women to satisfy themselves. Also known in the human species as gross pigs. 69.161.78.199 (talk) 06:38, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

I agree, disgusting and childishly low life as this is, its just gob shittery from someone who if they were not very very rich would be standing on street corners accosting passers-by. Its trivia. Slatersteven (talk) 10:10, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

@Electricmaster In what other instances do we put non-politicians making a (poor) joke on social media into biographical wikipedia pages purely on the point of the joke existing? If it causes some long term damage, it would make sense sure, but a joke that's going to be largely forgotten about within a few weeks, let alone months/years doesn't seem to be of Wikipedia relevance. Be careful about getting caught up in WP:TOOSOON and the media cycle in general. Wikipedia's not a tabloid. Ergzay (talk) 05:33, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

We don't treat non-politicians differently from politicians... We treat public figures differently from non-public figures, both politicians and Musk are public figures so we treat them the same. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:17, 18 September 2024 (UTC)