Talk:Ukko

"Jumala" or "Juma-" ('God' in Finnish) has Finno-Permic distribution and it has been suggested to be an Indo-Aryan loan (compare to Sanskrit "dyuman", an epithet of thunder god Indra meaning something like "shining", "bright" and "heavenly"). This is interesting, because the "jumala" word itself in Finnish pagan folk poetry is most often associated with the sky deity, not just some forest spirits - and later with Christian God, of course. Anna-Leena Siikala writes in her book 'Itämerensuomalaisten mytologia' (SKS 2012) (="Mythology of Baltic Finns") that the Indo-Aryan contacts meant "a great cultural turning point" to the Proto-Uralics, introducing new cultural, agricultural and also religious concepts.

There are also other possible Aryan loans related to the central religious themes, like "taivas" from Indo-Aryan *daivas meaning 'sky' or 'heaven', "sampo" or "sammas" meaning "world pillar" around which the expanse of heavens goes round (later a grinding mill in some traditions), "kekri" from *kwekl- 'wheel', an annual cattle and agriculture festival related to the 'rotation' of the year, a new year feast.

Also Unto Salo has wrote about Ukko Ylijumala as an archetypical Indo-European sky deity (thunder bolts, horse chariots etc). Jmarkusp (talk) 07:19, 13 January 2016 (UTC)Reply

80.221.207.3 changed Ukko from a sky god into a god of thunder and from a high-god into an over-god. I suspect this is not correct. The word "ylijumala", if taken to be modern Finnish, would indeed mean over god or even head god. What I've heard is this interpretation is incorrect. The first part "yli-" does not refer to a higher position as in superiority but to ylinen, which is a word no longer used referring to more or less the things above (the sky). This would mean, among other things, that Ukko is indeed the god of the sky not merely the god of thunder. (Thunders are still among the things he does.) My information may be incorrect. --Lakefall 16:45, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

According to the Finnish page Ukko is a god of weather, crop and thunderstorm. That does not necessarily contradict anything I said earlier. (It sounds like a matter of interpretation.) --Lakefall 16:54, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I can't find any non-Finnish sources to cite, but that is correct. He wasn't the head of the pantheon, not like Odin and Zeus etc. Ukko was called overgod simply because he was the god of sky. 'Supreme god' is a mistranslation. But it should be noted that Ukko was considered wise, and he acted as the judge when there were disagreements among the gods. So in that sense, I suppose it could be argued that he was the leader. ...he also had quite a temper (which manifested in thunder and lightning), and disliked being bothered with petty squabbles. 94.22.242.219 (talk) 09:40, 22 February 2017 (UTC)Reply

Pitkänen is basically "lightning" rather than thunder.

It is unclear if the etymology is the same as pitkä ("long") or pituus ("length") which does not agree in vowel harmony, or perhaps pitää ("to hold" or "to keep") if that suggests a sudden grip or seizure of something.

In fact the word pitkä ("long") cannot have a diminutive form as such in Finnish at all! Otherwise the word pitkänen would be take to mean "the long and the short of it" or something on that order. 24.237.158.232 (talk) 03:10, 28 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

mcmyolay 2400:AC40:70B:C5EA:9474:4E1A:7C42:B357 (talk) 23:44, 20 April 2022 (UTC)Reply