Talk:Southgate, London

The comment that the part of N14 west of Chase Side is called Osidge and NOT Southgate is simply wrong. If you're in N14 you're either in Southgate or you're in Oakwood. Even the shops in Hampden Square and the Hampden Arms pub have their addresses listed as Southgate, as does Ashmole School. At best I could see an address listed as Osidge, Southgate. Rellis1067 18:12, 20 October 2005 (UTC)Reply

A postal address in the UK is an instruction of how to deliver mail, not a definition of location. Everyone in N14 is in "Southgate" for the purposes of delivering the mail but that does not mean they are in Southgate. MRSC 21:56, 20 October 2005 (UTC)Reply

Thanks, but unless someone can provide evidence beyond Londoneye's comment, Southgate wholly in Enfield. The part of N14 in Barnet is called Osidge. This is based on detailed local knowledge, I am going to revert the change. Rellis1067 19:10, 26 October 2005 (UTC)Reply

What more evidence can I supply than my knowledge of what people who live round here think? Can Rellis1067 supply any contrary evidence, other than postal address? As an example of the absurdity of relying on postal addresses, Cockfosters is postally in Barnet. If Rellis1067 is unhappy, is there not some adjudication procedure? Londoneye 19:34, 26 October 2005 (UTC)Reply

I don't think we have to go that far or get upset. A quick check using OS does show Southgate is wholly in Enfield. MRSC 19:47, 26 October 2005 (UTC)Reply

Quite right. Before 1965, there was a Borough of Southgate; the whole of that borough became part of the Borough of Enfield, with not an inch in Barnet. What reasonable definition of Southgate includes areas outside the old borough? There are many other examples of postal districts crossing Borough boundaries. At the other end of Barnet, would anyone say that Colindale was part of Kingsbury because they are both in NW9?
RachelBrown 20:44, 26 October 2005 (UTC)Reply

I support Londoneye too. Postal addresses are very misleading; another example in Barnet is Totteridge, where the southern end is in N12 not N20 so nobody realises it's in Totteridge except the vicar of Totteridge (the N12 part is in his parish) and the Residents' Association (its chairman lives in the N12 part). The location of Southgate station is confusing too; Osidge is very near the station, but that's because the station is on the edge of the old Borough of Southgate. 81.130.128.170 12:25, 27 October 2005 (UTC)Reply

I can understand what people are saying! My point is that Southgate is a locality, and people/organisations based in the N14 bit of LB Barnet say they are in Southgate. I am not making this up - I live in Southgate. As an example, I've pasted this in from Ashmole School's website [1]:

• • Ashmole School is a co-educational comprehensive school, situated in Southgate, on the eastern boundary of the London Borough of Barnet.

By the by, it is also not necessary for people to state the locality as part of an address - the post office do not require it. However, people/organisations from the LBB in N14 usually choose to say Southgate. People in Oakwood, N14 state Oakwood and not Southgate, so people have a choice. Another example, Osidge School, who could say Osidge, N14, but don't [2]:

• • Osidge Primary School, Chase Side, Southgate, London N14 5HD

If the locality of an area has general agreement that it is called something, then in my view the article should reflect that view, even if technically it is not correct. Perhaps the article should say something like: Although technically Southgate does not include the parts of N14 that are in the London Borough of Barnet, these parts are frequently referred to as Southgate. Or words to that effect. At least that would give it some balance.Rellis1067 18:16, 27 October 2005 (UTC)Reply

I think that this really belongs in the Osidge article. I'll amend that article and put a small note in this one.
RachelBrown 12:19, 28 October 2005 (UTC)Reply

Additional notes on this controversy: the Monkfrith area (Exeter Road, Monkfrith Way, Friar's Walk) was never part of the Osidge estate, which was boundaried by Osidge Lane. So I don't see how it can be part of Osidge any more than Osidge Library or the "Osidge Park" development are. But this area has an N14 postcode, and it's certainly not East Barnet! I'd suggest that Osidge and Monkfrith are analagous to Minchenden or Meadway as descriptions of a very specific area, rather than being analagous to Oakwood as places in their own right. Based on local usage, the Southgate article should revert to describing Southgate as located within both the LBs of Barnet and of Enfield.

I lived in Southgate, N14 in the Borough of Barnet (according to the electoral register Chipping Barnet) I was in Cedar Rise just off Chase Side right on the border of Enfield to the North and Barnet to the South. Please note Southgate is also in the Borough of Barnet —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.219.182.165 (talk) 10:00, 14 March 2010 (UTC)Reply

A user has been editing out references to the LB of Barnet from this page; I have been reverting. Here's a knock-down argument to support the contention that the N14 5XX area of LB Barnet is in Southgate: Amy Winehouse is described in every biographical source as having grown up in Southgate. Her home was in Osidge Lane, though, which is in Barnet, as are Osidge and Ashmole schools.

I think that there are several Priory hospitals - the one where celebs go for their rehab isn;t the one in Southgate, surely?!? I thought it was a huge mansion-type-place in Hampshire somewhere?

I think some do go to Southgate, like General Pinochet. - Londoneye 11:12, 9 May 2006 (UTC)Reply

Pinochet went to Southgate; but the other celebrities go to the one in Roehampton (i.e. Hampshire), or so i was told by a doctor at the Southgate Priory (which is also, however, a huge mansion-type-place).

Roehampton is in London, SW15, near Putney. Pinochet may have been treated in Southgate, in a hospital called 'The Priory' but the celebrity rehab place is in Roehampton.

As was mentioned above, the Priory is actually a chain of hospitals, any/all of which may have treated celebrities. So it's likely that some were treated in Grovelands House (the one in Southgate), some in Roehampton, and some in Marchwood (Hampshire). See the Priory Healthcare website for the full list of their facilities - there are quite a few. Waggers 09:00, 4 June 2007 (UTC)Reply

A not-logged-in user made a string of edits. Many were clearly nonsense, and some were impossibly vague. (One of the Kinks? Which one?) If any of them is correct, can someone please reinstate.--Osidge 10:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC) It was Dave Davies of the Kinks, he lived on Chase Side--Hissett (talk) 21:17, 24 March 2008 (UTC) The (fairly recent) amalgamation of Southgate and Edmonton with Enfield has caused a few misleading entries. Although Norman Tebbit (Baron Tebbit of Chingford) is shown, he is actually from Ponders End which of course in nowhere near Southgate. If that is the criteria then the site omits, Sir Roy Strong, Larry Lamb, Ray Winstone, all of whom attended Edmonton County School. David Day- Chairman/Secretary ECSOSA (Edmonton County School Old Scholars Association) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Diddyday (talk • contribs) 09:32, 31 October 2019 (UTC)Reply

Where does Arnos Grove fit in? Only the tube station is mentioned in the article, and not the district. Should the nearest places to the south be New Southgate and Arnos Grove, or is Arnos Grove in New Southgate? In the article on Broomfield School, Arnos Grove, I placed Southgate in the infobox, because when I lived in N14, I thought that all of N14 was Southgate, but that may well have been because I lived fairly near Southgate tube station. Broomfield School has the following address: Broomfield School, Wilmer Way, London, N14 7HY Coyets 16:31, 1 June 2007 (UTC)Reply

Yes, when I lived in the area I thought that all N13 was Palmers Green, too. I used to live close to Broomfield School (on the Powys Lane side of it) and Powys Lane is in N13 - which is why, when I created the Broomfield School article, I called it Broomfield School, Palmers Green (not knowing the formal address). The Arnos Grove estate spanned N13 and N14 - the house itself is (still standing) in N14. When I lived there (11 years ago now) Arnos Grove was never referred to as a district. Arnos Park, Broomfield School etc. were part of Palmers Green; Southgate Green (including the actual Arnos Grove house) was part of Southgate.

My view is that the Arnos Grove article should refer purely to the Arnos Grove estate (map here). As can be seen by the map, Broomfield School indeed fits into it (which is ironic, because Broomfield was the neighbouring estate and Broomfield School was never located in the area occupied by Boomfield). Waggers 08:55, 4 June 2007 (UTC)Reply

Why is this discussion going on here? My view is that the postcodes are irrelevant - they are simply areas created for the efficient distribution of post. For example, although N11 as a whole is known as New Southgate, it contains Friern Barnet and New Southgate and parts of Arnos Grove, Bounds Green and Colney Hatch. This is a large misunderstanding I have met on Wikipedia - many 'areas', at least in the Enfield/Barnet/Harringey border area, are independent of the local postcode areas, but this is confused by the fact that the areas the postcode areas are named after exist too. Therefore some people try to cover all of the areas within a postcode, in an article about the area the postcode is named after. I believe that the postcode approach is flawed and that Arnos Grove is a separate area, mostly within the New Southgate postcode area. By the way, I didn't mention this when I moved the Broomfield School article, but Broomfield School is literally opposite the end of the Arnos Grove controlled parking zone and nowhere near the Southgate and Palmers Green controlled parking zones (interestingly, New Southgate doesn't have one because it is mostly in Barnet). Also, Arnos Grove is wedged in between New Southgate and Southgate, but I would still call them both 'Nearest Places'. By the way, Waggers, I have never seen anybody try to call Arnos Park part of Palmers Green - the closest I have seen to that is an instance of the address 'Broomfield Park, Arnos Grove', which is actually at attempt to do a similar injustice to Broomfield Park. Dark-Fire 11:58, 24 June 2007 (UTC)Reply

Figures are inconsistent. Philafrenzy (talk) 10:33, 22 August 2016 (UTC)Reply

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