Talk:Sega Genesis/Archive 3

Latest comment: 18 years ago by Havok in topic Proposed move
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Teradrive vs. Mega PC

These two systems are totally different and shouldn't be under the same section, and it's "Teradrive", not "Terra Drive"!

The Teradrive was made by or in association with IBM in Japan, which was based on a 286 system. More info here: http://nfg.2y.net/games/teradrive/

The Mega PC was made entirely by Amstrad, under license from Sega. It bears NO RESEMBLANCE to the Teradrive at all, except for the fact it was an Intel-based PC with Mega Drive hardware in one. --Zilog Jones 15:59, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

hi

Merging Sega Genesis/Sega Mega Drive

To be honest, I think it's kind of ridiculous that there is still two articles which primarily duplicate content and I think they should be merged. I've added merge disputed to this page, are there still objections to this being merged though? Halo 09:37, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree that a merger should take place, but under a page title such as 'Sega Megadrive/Genesis' or something else neutral like that. If one must be picked, which I would absolutely argue that it doesn't, then the fact that it was only named the Genesis on one half of one continent while it carried the name 'Megadrive' for 4 1/2 other continents should probably be acknowledged. It also maintained a much bigger proportional share of the 16bit market in Europe (under the Megadrive name) than it did in either the USA or Japan due to the great success of the Master System in that region and the comparative failure of the NES. ThomasHarte 22:43, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Generally one must be picked, as "Sega Megadrive/Genesis" looks clunky, and then an order argument would ensue anyway. WhisperToMe 23:09, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

For the most part I have no problem, except for the obvious fact that any change made is going to upset someone. And considering the amount of people that seem to care about what the article is called, this article title will almost certainly be changed again no matter what you do. Merge it, it'll be seperated. Rename either, and there'll be another long discussion about why the name is wrong. It might as well just be left as is, though perhaps removing more detail from either article so that it is not duplicated and so that linking between the two is necessary. Of course, then you have to decide which one to trim down and the problem isn't really solved... -- Supermorff 13:45, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Then we should logically use the Mega Drive article for all general information since it was the name used in the majority of countries. The "Manual of Style" states that "[f]or the English Wikipedia, there is no preference among the major national varieties of English" - so the various arguments that 'English wikipedia is primarily for Americans' are based on an incorrect understanding of the wikipedia style guides. I therefore continue to vote for Mega Drive due to worldwide use of that name versus a one territory use of another.
I suggest the way to move forwards, as consensus appears not to be possible is to conduct a survey (as per Wikipedia:Survey guidelines) and use the basis of that to integrate whatever parts of the two articles into whatever place as the survey results suggest. If the result of the survey continues to be disputed (e.g. further edits to return to the current state) then continue down the paths indicated by Wikipedia:Dispute resolution.
Surveys should be proposed then discussed for at least a week beforehand, so to kick us off I suggest the following form for the survey:

Vote for where you think all information related to both the Mega Drive and Genesis should be deposited - the Sega Mega Drive page or the Sega Genesis page.

Arguments in favour of Sega Mega Drive:

  • The Wikipedia:Manual of Style states that "there is no preference among the major national varieties of English", so the correct depository should not be picked according merely to specific locations in which either name was used
  • The name Sega Mega Drive was used internationally, the name Genesis only in North America
  • A google search for "megadrive" returns 1,440,000 hits. A search for "Sega Genesis" returns only 1,190,000, implying that the Megadrive name is more popular. A search for merely "Genesis" finds the Phil Collins rock band and the biblical book with no mention of Sega until the fifth page. The megadrive search returns Sega related results until at least the twentieth page.

Arguments in favour of Sega Genesis:

  • A fairer google search compares Sega Megadrive with 864,000 to Sega Genesis with 1,190,000 - Megadrive has another meaning in the US
anyway, that's literally all I've been able to find in favour of Genesis from this talk page, although M123 seems to have come up with alternate results that google.com doesn't verify for me. Hopefully someone else can fill in more Genesis reasons or else it isn't going to be much of a survey! ThomasHarte 17:54, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

I cannot argue with anything you've said. I will therefore merely point out that the Megadrive console can be spelled either as "Mega Drive" or "Megadrive", and that the google statistics should reflect this. I suggest keeping both pages, with the Megadrive page the only one to contain the technical information (as suggested previously on one of these pages). Also, only one of them needs a 'screenshots' section. It doesn't add a lot, in my opinion. Proceed with the survey if you wish. -- Supermorff 13:28, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

While technically yes, you can argue that the Mega Drive is technically the more used name worldwide, it doesn't strike me as the more commonly used name. I know, statistics prove otherwise (and I did my own little research on that matter; "Mega Drive" beats out "Sega Genesis" by a decent margin, though "Sega Genesis" beats out "Sega Mega Drive" almost 3:1), but even still, it feels wrong. I can't really explain it, either. I guess it's just cultural differences or something. Almost like merging "Starburst (confectionery)" into "Opal Fruits", barring the fact that "Opal Fruits" was renamed "Starburst" a few years back. It just... doesn't seem right to me. And I can almost guarantee there'll be others who think the exact same thing, only with merging "Mega Drive" into "Genesis". I find it hard to conceive of a solution that'll actually appease everybody, other than moving the article to Sega Mega Drive / Genesis, but that's just clunky. --Shadow Hog 04:51, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
Of course, Genesis presumably feels just as wrong to people like me in a Mega Drive territory as Mega Drive does to you, but is there anything offensive in removing from the Genesis article everything pertinent to both machines but leaving all of the American specifics in place - as suggested by various others above? So, specifically, strip "Development" to something tiny about how the decision to bring the successfully developed Mega Drive to America ran into name problems, keep all of "Release", cut down text of non-American specifc Mega Drive variants machines in "Versions", entirely remove technical specifications, remove whatever nuggets of trivia aren't generic (which will be mostly those that explicitly or implicitly reference the Majesco machine). So the main body of text, i.e. that in "Release" would be completely unaffected.
Looking at the question as I had it formulated, I don't think its worth having a survey. They're meant to help reach consensus in decision making (as wikipedia isn't a democracy) but such a one sided question is unlikely to achieve that. ThomasHarte 18:16, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
Looks like someone has already moved the article wholesale to Genesis/Mega Drive, so I guess that ends that debate! ThomasHarte 18:22, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
No it doesn't. The move was made unilaterally by an anon without any actual discussion on the subject, and quite honestly, the result is pathetic, and opens the dangerous precedent of renaming all articles where goods with different names exist on both UK and US to this combination. The console was originally named "Mega Drive" and then renamed due to trademark issues, and except for google hits I don't see any reason why the "Genesis" branding should be given such an importance. US-centrism at it's best. wS; 23:29, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
I agree with wolfenSilva, the page was moved without any formal concensus so this matter is not closed. If we are to use a dual title, then we should use chronological order to determine which which name goes first. "Mega Drive" is the original name, and therefore it should be first. However I think using dual titles is silly idea. I suggest each article article should be titled to the original name when launched, then use a redirect to that page for all other names. Articles should follow some kind of chronological order for the sake of documenting its history. ADSR6581 08:47, September 9, 2005 (UTC)
Wikipedia being a resource where all decisions are made by consensus, the fact that there is disagreement means that the retitle was a bad move, regardless of whether or not I agree with it and I accept that point. But in my view the "Genesis" brand should be given some significance because the Majesco Genesis 3 is, as far as I can tell from the material currently present, a unique instance of Sega licensing the hardware to a third party and it being radically redesigned, and I can't see why most of the American specific information can't remain in a Genesis article (e.g. the Sega Channel, the 65%/35% market share remarks), even if the introductory paragraph is along the lines of "The Sega Genesis is the North American version of the Sega Megadrive, renamed because Sega where unable to use the machine's original name from its earlier Japanese launch" or something else like that sufficient to indicate that the Genesis name was a fallback used only in one territory and the console already existed under a different name.
So the question is - what to do now? ThomasHarte 15:11, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't see the significence of the Majesco Genesis 3. Unless we are suddenly going to also acknowledge the (equally limited) significence of the officially licenced Tectoy Mega Drive 3, released in Brazil which was also developed by a 3rd party. Sure, there are several reasons why the Genesis name could be given significence, but Majesco's piece of crap certainly isn't one of them.
I think the Sega Mega Drive/Genesis could be successfully merged into one article, which IMO should be Sega Mega Drive, with info on the origin on the Genesis name. Mega Drive because it's the original name, used in the most markets, and was only changed due to it already being trademarked. Then again, I am biased. I just hope it doesn't descend into a move war. Halo 12:47, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't put into question the relevance of the Genesis; like with any other console article, it would have its own section (In North America as Genesis, for instance) where all the related information can go. What I'm questioning is the relevance of the brand outside north america (which is none) in order to have so much hassle about having an article alone about it or warranting place in the article name. wS; 13:19, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
The Makesco Genesis 3 is just the first example of something "Genesis specific" I could think of. I don't think it has great relevance on its own, although as an encyclopedic resource it should obviously go in especially as it seems to have some unique hardware quirks that indicate an electronically redesigned system rather than a mere licensing of the existing design. Not that I believe you were suggesting otherwise. It might be nice to get some more information on the Tec Toy variations too.
If everyone is in agreement then I guess editing the current article named Sega Genesis / Sega Mega Drive so that a lot of the Genesis specific information is moved underneath a common heading rather to Sega Megadrive. And presumably this also means renaming Gallery of Sega Genesis screenshots, Sega Genesis Game List, Category:Sega Genesis games and probably lots of others I haven't found. Although in the case of the screenshots it'd technically be incorrect since anything with English text should be squashed and given black borders to represent a true English language Megadrive output. But then again I note that the existing page references such images as File:MD Street Fighter II.png.
If all resistence is gone, I guess the move should be done immediately. ThomasHarte 16:26, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Colors

The Genesis can only display 61 colors without tricks. There are 4 16 color palletes; however, color 0 is used as the transparent color for background planes and sprites so the color 0 entry can only be used for the background color. Since you can only have one background color without using raster effects, we get 4*15+1=61 colors. With tricks the color limit is only 1536 colors not 3072 (unless there's some trick I'm not aware of). Raster effects allow all 512 colors in the pallete onscreen (though only 61 per line) at a time. Shadow/Highlight adds a shadow and highlight version of each color effectively tripling the available pallete (though it imposes some other limitations). When both these effects are combined we get 512*3=1536. No games actually use this many colors, though there have been one or two tech demos that use the technique. I am changing the colors spec back to the older numbers.

Mask of Destiny 01:07, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Proposed move