Talk:Ramla

A number of Jews settled in Ramla in the 17th century with their families. Among them were three noted rabbis from Jerusalem. One of them, Rabbi Moshe ibn Habib, reports on this matter here (סימן קכ"ח סעיף ל"ב) in his book. Another account was given by R' Shmuel Garmazian, who noted that the settlers came from Jerusalem and Damascus and bought houses in the town. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.178.29.84 (talk) 02:58, 30 August 2018 (UTC)Reply

Sources for the history section: Le Strange (1890) for early history, Cohen and Lewis (1978) for 1548, Ben-Arieh in Ma'oz (1975) for 19th century, British official statistics for population before 1948. The Jewish population: 2 Jews listed in 1852, 35 in 1922, 8 in 1931, none in 1525, 1538, 1548, 1596, 1944. For 1948: B. Morris, Operation Dani and the Palestinian Exodus from Lydda and Ramle in 1948, The Middle East Journal, 40 (1986) 82-109; Rabin memoirs (censored section, NYT Oct 23, 1979).
After 1948: A. Golan, Lydda and Ramle: From Palestinian-Arab to Israeli Towns, 1948-1967, Middle Eastern Studies 39,4 (2003) 121-139. --Zero 10:19, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Oops sorry bout deleting that paragraph, I didn't even realize I did it until you fixed it.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg (talk) 04:14, 13 November 2005 (UTC)Reply

See discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism#New "twist and turn" as "Hebrew alphabet" is switched to "Hebrew languages" concerning appropriate uses of the word "Hebrew" here. IZAK 05:33, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I have removed the following from the article:

• Arab militias organized by Hasan Salama and others operated in and around Ramla, resisting Jewish attacks and launching attacks on Jewish settlements and vehicles.< ref>Morris, The Birth of the Palestine Refugee Problem Revisited (Cambridge University Press, 2004), p88.</ ref>

Now, I have checked the reference, and the only thing Morris say about Ramla on p. 88 is (this is in a general discussion about how Salama tried to organise attacs on Jewish forces/quartes, but was almost everywhere met with little success):

• "But the villagers were not rushing to join up (..) Salame (..) asked [local leaders east of Jaffa] that they organise attacks on Tel Aviv[..] -"but they all opposed the plan vehemently." He (i.e.Salame) met a similar response from Ramle´s NC. Its members argued that "there was quiet in the area and until the Jews begin operations and Arab villages are attacked, they do not want to begin operations". Lydda NC responded similarely when asked to attack neighbouting Ben Shemen." Morris source this to reports in the Haganah archive.

Now, how can the above from Morris become what was in the article? Regards, Huldra (talk) 23:09, 21 July 2009 (UTC)Reply

This edit is not accurate, it is a whitewash. Morris writes that in Ramle and Lydda the population was 50,000-70,000 and that nearly all of the residents were expelled from both cities. Also, why was the link to 1948 Palestinian exodus from Lydda and Ramla removed? nableezy - 20:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC) Mentionning Napoleon in 1799 in anachronistic.Reply

It seems like some wikipedia editors are constantly misrepresenting Ramle as a Palestinian city. Ramle is a perfectly Israeli city, under Israeli rule with Jewish majority (80% Jews, 14% Muslims, 6% Christian who are not all Arab - some belong to the Greek orthodox church). Also, geographically speaking, Ramle isn't even remotely next to the West Bank or Gaza. Additionaly, the residents of Ramle have never named themselves "Palestinians" (other than perhaps the British Mandate definition of any person, Jewish or Arab who lives in Palestine/Israel) nor was it ever under Jordanian/Egyptian rule (Unlike Gaza, the West-Bank or East-Jerusalem).

I know there's a controversey regarding the fact many Arabs fled (or left willingly to allow Jordan/Egypt to conquer it for them) Ramle during the war of 1948 but let's keep things factual. --AvihooI (talk) 12:49, 19 February 2011 (UTC)Reply

The article says that the city was founded in 716 and suffered earthquake damage in 715. Hmmmmmm.... Zero^talk 10:55, 25 March 2014 (UTC)Reply

I wondered the same thing. Maybe the area suffered damage? See the Lod Wikipedia article:

"Lod which was referred to as "al-Ludd" in Arabic served as the capital of Jund Filastin ("Military District of Palestine") before the seat of power was moved to nearby Ramla during the reign of the Umayyad Caliph Suleiman ibn Abd al-Malik in 715-716."

Maybe an earthquake led the governing power to move the seat of power at that time? 109.66.36.179 (talk) 20:26, 13 September 2014 (UTC)Eric MackReply

The literary sources for the establishment of Ramle do not ascribe it to an earthquake. In fact, I'm not sure there was an earthquake in 715 at all. There was a major earthquake in Palestine in 746–9 which was reported to have caused severe damage in nearby Lydda. Zero^talk 06:23, 14 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

I looked in several extensive lists of earthquakes in Palestine and there is no mention of one in 715. I'm removing it. Zero^talk 07:41, 14 September 2014 (UTC)Reply

Presently the map shows Ramla to be in ......Jordan, LOL! Cheers, Huldra (talk) 20:00, 9 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Ok, I changed "pushpin_map=Israel center ta" to "pushpin_map=" ...and Ramla magically moved from Jordan to israel... I have absolutely *no* idea as to how/why this works....Huldra (talk) 21:25, 9 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

The problem was that Sepsis II recently changed the map that Template:Location map Israel center ta uses, but the new map had different boundaries than the old one, causing all points to be misplaced. I've reverted the change and everything seems back to normal now. Jackmcbarn (talk) 22:25, 9 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Ah, I'm still learning maps, sorry. I had asked the map's creator for help fixing the maps problems but he didn't want to help. User talk:Ynhockey#Commons maps. Sepsis II (talk) 23:03, 9 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

I think I've fixed it now although it can take hours for the templates to update so if you see other articles using the templates they may still appear wrong for a few hours though they will fix themselves if left alone. Sepsis II (talk) 23:17, 9 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

@Sepsis II: You have fixed this issue. However, you've now effectively deleted the old Template:Location map Israel center ta and replaced it with a duplicate of Template:Location map Israel. Jackmcbarn (talk) 23:19, 9 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Sepsis: though I certainly have sympathy with your aim of making maps more neutral, please don´t mess around with templates which are used on 100s of pages if you are not sure of what you are doing. I was adviced here to bring these sorts of questions up at WP:VPT; why don´t you try it? Cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:28, 9 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Unfortunately we have no map similar to the old one that does not have the POV issues the old map had. Like I said, I asked the maps creator for help but as I expected he would not help. I edited the templates rather than the articles to save on a few hundred edits (I do have other things to do) and to make it easier to put back if ever a map creator makes appropriate maps. The POV problems include incorrect colouring of the West Bank and incorrect borders around Jerusalem and Syria. Sepsis II (talk) 23:35, 9 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

That's such a big change that it really needs to be discussed and gain consensus before it's made. Jackmcbarn (talk) 23:46, 9 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

I agree with Dlv999 and Sepsis that some of the old maps seem to more reflect the Israeli view, than the view of the rest of the International community. As such, they should be changed. But Sepsis: if you are in doubt about technical issues, please take them to WP:VPT. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 23:54, 9 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

@ Jackmcbarn, I'm sorry, what did you say was the problem with the new map?

My mistake was out of ignorance of my ignorance; it's hard to ask for help when you don't know you need it. Sepsis II (talk) 23:59, 9 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Making such a drastic change to a template (effectively making it a new template with the same name) really needs consensus before you do it. In this case, it would be much better to change usages to use the other template, rather than trying to make one act like the other. Jackmcbarn (talk) 00:05, 10 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

The result of what you suggest would look the same to the readers as what I did but would take hundreds of more edits for myself and any editor who re-creates the maps without the POV problems. Sepsis II (talk) 00:09, 10 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

I've asked the creator of Template:Location map Israel center ta to comment. Jackmcbarn (talk) 00:20, 10 April 2014 (UTC)Reply

Ramla was the old capital in the land before it was formed into Israel.... Why is this not mentioned - is that not important. Also, the climate is more humid than most areas, so this helps with breathing - one of the reasons it was chosen as the capital by the arabs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.7.89.71 (talk) 08:13, 2 January 2015 (UTC)Reply

This is not true except in the pre-Crusader period, which is already mentioned. Zero^talk 08:44, 2 January 2015 (UTC)Reply

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I propose adding the following sentence to the end of the demographics section:

The city serves as the point of registration for many citizens in the nearby, unrecognized village of Dahmash.^[1]

Matthew V. Milone (talk) 18:12, 31 July 2018 (UTC)Reply

•   Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. There's no consensus on the Reliable Sources Noticeboard regarding whether Human Rights Watch is a suitable source for topics related to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. Please start a new discussion on this talk page, and establish a consensus with other interested editors before making an edit request.​ — Newslinger talk 21:08, 3 August 2018 (UTC)Reply

Change "Coat of arms of Ramla.png" to "Coat_of_Arms_of_Ramla.svg" as I upload a new accurate version. Tal (Ronaldinho The king) 14:53, 4 August 2018 (UTC)Reply

  Done Danski454 (talk) 15:35, 4 August 2018 (UTC)Reply

Thank you. Tal (Ronaldinho The king) 15:37, 4 August 2018 (UTC)Reply

• Avishag Semberg (born 2001), taekwondo Olympic bronze medalist

--184.153.21.19 (talk) 07:48, 25 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

Please change "explusion" to "expulsion", in quotation from "Golani and Manna 2011, p. 107". The source does not have this spelling error.--Seggallion (talk) 06:57, 13 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

  Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:43, 13 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

I can attest that the introduction to the article is wrong when giving the pronunciation in Hebrew and Arabic as "Ramla"; both Hebrew-speaking and Arabic-speaking residents of Ramla pronounce it Ramle. Anyone else who is a local and can attest this? Thank you. Dan Palraz (talk) 12:04, 3 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

Today, in Israeli newspaper Haaretz: [to Merge Unrecognized Arab Village With City of Ramle, Despite Residents Opposition]. As Ramle is the way used by both the Jewish Israeli and the Arab citizens of the city, I think it would make sense to change Ramla into Ramle, unless there is another reason to oppose it. Dan Palraz (talk) 11:08, 12 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

The Israeli government indeed uses Ramle, which is the way every Israeli I know pronounces it: https://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1482/ Dan Palraz (talk) 22:18, 18 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

The official spelling is Ramla (https://www.nevo.co.il/Law_word/law10/yalkut-0277.pdf). Red Slapper (talk) 21:54, 25 December 2022 (UTC)Reply

This is not a list of "official spellings" - even if it was, it uses "Ascalon" for Ashkelon, "Beth Shemesh" for Beit Shemesh, "Beit Jibrin" from Beit Guvrin, etc. The spelling officially used by the city itself is Ramle: https://ramle.org.il/ (and also by the Israeli government: https://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/1482/) As it is the locally used form, used by both Jewish and Arab residents of the city, is there any reason for us not to adopt it here? Dan Palraz (talk) 11:11, 4 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

It sounds to me as if the Ramla is the formal Arabic way of saying it and Ramle in the Palestinian dialect. While although it is informally referred to as Ramle, we should stick to what most sources use and that is Ramla, per WP:Common names. Makeandtoss (talk) 12:28, 4 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

Under Notable People ..

• Avishag Semberg (born 2001), Olympic taekwondo bronze medalist

2603:7000:2101:AA00:8425:771F:1857:346C (talk) 04:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)Reply