Talk:Debian/GA1

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What is a good article?

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose):   b (MoS):  

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references):   b (citations to reliable sources):   c (OR):  

3. It is broad in its coverage

   a (major aspects):   b (focused):  

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   a (fair representation):   b (all significant views):  

5. It is stable.  
6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.

   a (tagged and captioned):   b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA):   c (non-free images have fair use rationales):  

7. Overall:

   a Pass/Fail:  

• Format for websites like www.debian.org should be Debian instead of web address (see cite #3 for an example)
• Cites #'s 1, 9, 10-11, 13-19, 20-22, 26-32, 42, 48-52, 54-56 are not sourced properly. miranda 05:28, 28 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

I modified according to these 2 bullet points. Have a look. VShaka (talk) 10:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

I see 41 and 45 still fail to be formatted in the citation template. miranda 04:34, 1 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

• Intro: What university supported this study?

You deleted the section on which university sponsored the study. If this fact were promoted by Debian developers, wouldn't this be biased?

I substituted it with another study which I thought was less technical and clearer. Debian would not do these kind of studies. Promoting? That is a Market kind of word not a FOSS word. VShaka (talk) 13:55, 1 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

• Debian etch would cost close to US$13 billion if it were developed by proprietary means.

You didn't eliminate "it" in this sentence. miranda 22:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

• Avoid using "it" and "its"
• don't need a colon after "such as: OpenOffice.org"

Several distributions are based on Debian, including: Ubuntu, MEPIS, Dreamlinux, Damn Small Linux, Xandros, Knoppix, Linspire, sidux, Kanotix, and LinEx, among others.

You don't need a colon for this sentence. Please see this helpful guide if you need any help. miranda 22:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

  Done--Unpopular Opinion (talk · contribs) 16:34, 23 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

• Spell out "4 DVDs", "20 CDs" with four and twenty. miranda 22:59, 28 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

All done. VShaka (talk) 10:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

Not quite. See above. miranda 22:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

• You need more sources for this section.
• I would HIGHLY recommend a good copyeditor. Please see this page for more information.
• Debian was first announced on 16 August 1993, by Ian Murdock, who was then a student at Purdue University.[8]

Format date correctly per article consistency.

Who was then a student? How about who was a student?

• Previously, Softlanding Linux System had been the first Linux distribution compiled from various software packages, and was a popular basis for other distributions c. 1993-1994.

What's c. 1993-1994? Not good prose.

• The perceived poor maintenance and prevalence of bugs in SLS[11] motivated Murdock to launch a new distribution.

What's SLS? software distribution? There are many types of distributions.

Bugs? Software bugs, or literally critters? miranda 04:34, 1 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

---

• Comma after 1993.
• Avoid "it"
• How do we know that Debbie is his ex-wife? Is there a link based upon this, per BLP?
• Need a comma after As such, Debian is pronounced as the corresponding syllables of these names in English: /ˈdɛbiən/[14], but other pronunciations are common in different parts of the world.[15]
• The first ports "were begun" (began, maybe?)
• Social contract w/users instead of "its users"
• Substitute project/Project w/"Debian"
• In late 2000, the project made major changes to archive and release management, reorganizing software archive processes with new "package pools" and creating a testing distribution as an ongoing, relatively stable staging area for the next release. - wordy
• "the Project" is not the same as "the project"
• Last sentence is stand alone and should be incorporated with the rest of the paragraph. miranda 17:12, 9 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

• needs more refs. Prose is kind of choppy.

This whole section is copied directly from Debian. What kind of additional refs are you suggesting ? It should be Debian's call to suggest Hardware Requirements. VShaka (talk) 13:55, 1 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

IMHO, even though the PD/GFDL guarantees that you can copy sections from the website, it is wise to paraphrase the content and cite the places where you retrieved the information. miranda 02:52, 10 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

Sentences like:

• A 1GHz processor is the minimum recommended for desktop systems. - stand alone

• The real minimum memory requirements are a lot less than the numbers listed in this table. (not good prose) Depending on the architecture, it is possible to install Debian with as little as 20 MB for s390 or 48 MB for i386 and amd64. The same is applicable for disk space requirements which depend on the packages to be installed.

• It is possible to run graphical user interfaces on older or low-end systems, but it is recommended to install window managers instead which are less resource-hungry than desktop environments. - unclear prose. miranda 22:14, 31 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

Attempting to clarify: "Older or low-end systems might not be powerful enough to run heavy-weight desktop environments (like GNOME or KDE); window mangers (like Openbox or twm) are less resource-intensive and might allow those systems to run a graphical user interface." - MyOwnLittlWorld (talk) 23:19, 28 December 2008 (UTC)Reply

• Depending on the nature of the server, RAM and disk space requirements can vary widely.

How and why is this possible? miranda 22:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

It's actually pretty straightforward. A server is a computer on the internet delivering (serving) content to other computers. The "nature" of the server is the type of content that it serves. For example, a server hosting a small website (serving a couple web-pages every so often) is much less resource intensive than being the main server for a complex graphical multi-player game (serving player positions, actions, and updates continuously). Perhaps the phrase could be clarified to something like:

• "Hardware requirements can vary depending on a server's task." or
• "Different server tasks will require different amounts of RAM and disk space"

Hope that helps. - MyOwnLittlWorld (talk) 22:57, 28 December 2008 (UTC)Reply

• footnote on heading is bad manual of style. miranda 05:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

Edited. VShaka (talk) 10:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

• I would like to see a section over pitfalls and controversy on this software. What makes the software better than any other OS? Why is Debian reliable than any other OS? miranda 22:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

I strongly oppose and I though Wikipedia was against these sections as the criticisms should be intertwined within the article. Plus, there are criticisms like Debian's modification of SSL and separating main, non-free and contrib. Many of the packages that Debian has are the same for any other OS, the thing is that Debian has 26k packages while other OSes have much less. Debian is theoretically more reliable because it has 4 "levels" for testing packages: stable, testing, unstable and experimental (there is a gigantic section about this). VShaka (talk) 13:55, 1 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

Maintaining NPOV is part of the GA requirements as seen by criteria 4. This GA review is not looking good here, if you fail to include some type of controversy and/or criticism of Debian. miranda 14:22, 1 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

:I am sorry, but I am really busy in real life. Can someone please continue reviewing this article? Thanks. miranda 00:57, 3 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

Sorry for the drahmaz, but I can have this review done soon. miranda 22:20, 4 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

• Software packages in development - "Developing software packages"
• or to the experimental repository.
• Since updates to Debian software packages - "Debian's software package updates
• The latest stable release of Debian (etch) is 4.0. It was which was released on April 8, 2007.
• The forthcoming release is codenamed "lenny". (when will this be released?)
• More sources needed to confirm facts

The Debian Project is a volunteer organization with three foundational documents:

• The Debian Social Contract defines a set of basic principles by which the project and its developers conduct affairs.
• The Debian Free Software Guidelines define the criteria for "free software" and thus what software is permissible in the distribution, as referenced in the Social Contract. These guidelines have also been adopted as the basis of the Open Source Definition. Although it (The Debian Free Software Guidelines) can be considered a separate document for all practical purposes, and formally is part of the Social Contract.
• The Debian Constitution describes the organizational structure for formal decision-making within the Project, and enumerates the powers and responsibilities of the Debian Project Leader, the Debian Project Secretary, and the Debian developers generally.
• Currently, the project includes more than over thousand developers. Each of them sustains some niche (developer is responsible for some task?) in the project, such as package maintenance, software documentation, project infrastructure maintenance, quality assurance, or release coordination.
• The project maintains official mailing lists and conferences for communication and coordination between developers (and users?).
• ...a public bug tracking system is used by both developers and end-users. Informally, Internet Relay Chat channels (primarily on the OFTC and freenode networks) are used for communicationamong developers and users as well.
• Together, the developers may make binding general decisions by way of a General Resolution (why is this capitalized?) or election.

• All voting is conducted by Cloneproof Schwartz Sequential Dropping, (which is) a Condorcet method of voting. A Project Leader is elected once per year by a vote of the developers. The Debian Project Leader has several special powers, (such as?) but this power is far from absolute and is rarely used. Under a General Resolution, the developers may, among other things, recall the leader, reverse a decision by him or his delegates, and amend the constitution and other foundational documents (under what conditions?). ---> In April 2008, Steve McIntyre was voted into this position, succeeded Sam Hocevar as Project Leader.

• The Leader sometimes delegates authority for other developers in order for them to perform specialized tasks. Generally,' this means that a Leader designates a developer to start a new group for a new task. Gradually a team gets forms (for collaboration?) that carries on doing the work
• This doesn't make sense and regularly expands or reduces their ranks as they think is best and as the circumstances allow.
• Another role in Debian with a similar importance to the Project Leader's is the Release Manager. Release Managers set goals (and supervise) for the next release, supervize (supervise) the process, and make the final decision as to when to release.

• • I recommend that [[Schulze method|Cloneproof Schwartz Sequential Dropping]] should be changed to [[Schulze method]]. The term Cloneproof Schwartz Sequential Dropping is used only among Debian developers. And the Wikipedia article on Debian is written for the general audience, and not primarily for Debian developers. IronMan3000 (talk) 22:35, 18 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

• The project has had the following leaders:(are these people still active with the project?)
• A supplemental position, Debian Second in Charge (2IC) - what does this position do?

• needs intro paragraph
• Note that this list includes the active release managers; it , and does not include the release assistants (first introduced in 2003) and the retiring managers ("release wizards"). miranda 03:41, 10 November 2008 (UTC)Reply
• In release managers, there should be an en dash in between years (i.e. 1995–1999). Em dashes should be used for current years (i.e., 2005 — ). See WP:DASH for more information.

• Can we rename this to Developer life cycle?
• "The Debian Project" - why not use "Debian"
• "Applicants" - take out unnecessary these.
• "vetting powers" - hmm -- needs proper word choice

Debian Developers join the Project for any number of reasons; some that have been cited in the past include:[26], such as:

Debian Ddevelopers may resign their positions at any time by orphaning the assigned packages they were responsible for and sending a notice to the other collaborating developers and the keyring maintainer (so that their upload authorization can be revoked), who can revoke their upload authorization. miranda 06:18, 15 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

However, new code is also usually untried code, and those new packages are only distributed with clear disclaimers. For Packages need to be included with the testing suite in order to become candidates for the Debian's next "stable" release of the Debian distribution, they first need to be included in the "testing" suite. The requirements for a package to be included in "testing" is that it Certain requirements for testing, include:[27]

• must have been in unstable for the appropriate length of time (the exact duration depends on the "urgency" of the upload).
• must not have a greater number of filed "release-critical" bugs filed against it than the current version in testing. Release-critical bugs are those bugs which are considered serious enough causing that they make the package to be unsuitable for release.
• must be compiled for all release architectures the package claims to support (eg: the i386-specific package gmod can be included in "testing").
• must be a package for an architecture that is slated to release (in other words, packages for architectures that are not scheduled to release with all the rest are never considered for "testing").[28]
• must not depend on versions of any packages that do not meet the above conditions.

Thus, a release-critical bug in a package on which many packages depend, such as a shared library, may prevent many packages from entering the "testing" area, due to deficiencybecause that library is considered deficient.

Periodically, the Release Manager publishes guidelines to the developers, preparing in order to ready the release when certain goals are met., and in accordance with them eventually decides to make a release. This occurs when All important planned software for release software is reasonably up-to-date in the release-candidate suite. for all architectures for which a release is planned, and when any other goals set by the Release Manager have been met. At thatDuring this phase time, all packages in the release-candidate suite ("testing") have become part of the released suite ("stable"). (delete) It is possible for a package -- particularly An old, stable, and seldom-updated one -- to can belong to more than one suite at the same time. The suites are simply collections of pointers into the package "pool" mentioned above. - this sentence does not make sense.

As of April 2007, the latest stable release is version 4.0, code name etch.[29] When a new version is released, the previous stable is labeled "oldstable" (quotes), which is currently this is version 3.1, code name sarge. (delete) In addition, a stable release gets has minor updates (called point releases) marked,

• for example, like 4.0r3. - what is this? please explain

The Debian security team releases oversees security updates for the latest stable major release, security updates, as well as for and the previous stable release for one year.[30] Version 4.0 Eetch was released on 8 April 2007 (date fmt.), and the security team supported version 3.1 Sarge until March 31, 2008. For most usesinstallations, it is strongly recommended to running a system which receives security updates is strongly recommended. The testing distribution also receives security updates.[31] (delete) Debian has made nine major stable releases:[32]

• merge these sentences with the above paragraph

The code names of Debian releases are names of Toy Story characters from the film Toy Story. The unstable, development distribution is nicknamed sid, after Sidney 'Sid' Phillips, a hyperactive, disturbed thirteen-year-old boythe emotionally unstable next-door neighbor boy who regularly destroyed toys.[47] An official 1.0 release was never made, because incident involving a CD vendor who made manufactured an unofficial and broken release labeled 1.0.[46]

miranda 10:54, 15 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

• "This is an example of the contents of this file" - the following is a content example
• This section needs to be updated.

Throughout the article, I am finding prose which is not sufficient for GA, such as "it is", "itself," "there are". Also, lack of sources in the Popularity Contest section. There is an external link in this section which needs to be a.) removed or b.) listed as a citation. I am putting this article on hold for two weeks, because of the Thanksgiving holiday in the states. Much work needs to be done for this article to be of GA standard. I have provided plenty of suggestions, and suggest the nominator(s) to work on copy editing the article as best as possible. miranda 19:24, 19 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

Due to some issues not being addressed, unfortunately, I have to not promote this article for GA status. miranda 02:07, 4 December 2008 (UTC)Reply