Talk:Chernobyl
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Q1: Shouldn't the title be Chornobyl (with an o)?
A1: No. While the standard transliteration of the city's name is Chornobyl, the name as used in the English language is overwhelmingly Chernobyl. Per WP:COMMONNAME, the latter should be used. |
Too many maps
editThe infobox has too many maps and some need to be removed. BigRed606 (talk) 02:37, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
Russian occupation
editNews reports are stating that the city is now in the hands of the Russian military, as part of the invasion of Ukraine. 50.111.36.47 (talk) 18:06, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
russia.
editrussia. 2A02:C7F:7030:6E00:89E7:1523:8FE9:7419 (talk) 10:19, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
- Whilst indeed captured, the city isn't annexed so far, so no, there is no way to change city's "Country" field. Seryo93 (talk) 10:27, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
- so far? wtf?? Sergiwez (talk) 15:39, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
- It won't change the country field even if annexed. 211.238.95.199 (talk) 14:31, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
Source and wording of "Jews were introduced to the city in the 16th century"?
editSeems like this would benefit from a reference of the sort "see below" or "as discussed below"— Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.164.4.40 (talk) 08:43, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
There was no reference for when Jews moved into Chernobyl in the previous version of the article either though. Scott.Hayden.Walker (talk) 02:23, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
I apologize if I sounded combative on accident; I just don't know when the Jewish community of Chernobyl was founded. I just wanted to clean up the weird passive voice in the prior writing. Scott.Hayden.Walker (talk) 02:25, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
Requested Move 8 March 2022
editThe following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Chernobyl → Chornobyl, as this is the proper Ukrainian spelling, as opposed to the Russian spelling. The city is in Ukraine. The article for Kyiv is spelled "Kyiv," rather than "Kiev." 69.116.147.54 (talk) 20:00, 8 March 2022 (UTC) Edit: People may also confuse "Chernobyl" with the power plant, or with Pripyat. 69.116.147.54 (talk) 01:54, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose: The Kiev → Kyiv move, while controversial, is backed up by a number of reliable sources who use that spelling in their English-language reporting. Many English-language sources still use the Russian spelling for Chernobyl, but the Ukrainian spelling for Kyiv (e.g. BBC News, CBS News, NPR, The New York Times, The Guardian, The Atlantic, Al Jazeera, New Scientist, ABC News). "Chernobyl" is by far the common spelling variant, and the one most reliable sources use, even if they have switched to saying "Kyiv" instead of "Kiev". Is this inconsistent? Possibly. But sources that have the "Chornobyl" spelling (IAEA press release, CNBC), are very few and far between. Our article on Odessa has not moved to the "Odesa" spelling, despite the latter appearing in more reliable sources recently – unlike "Chornobyl". It is unlikely this page is going to move to the Ukrainian spelling any time soon. —AFreshStart (talk) 23:35, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose for now. Agree with the above comment. The general switch to Kyiv across the board in English language sources is evident in various media outlets at the international, national, and local levels. For this, though, English language sources are still consistently referring to it as "Chernobyl" in reports, which have obviously been numerous these past few weeks. Eventually this may change, but for now, there doesn't appear to be evidence that "Chornobyl" is being widely or consistently used in English language sources. --JonRidinger (talk) 14:16, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
Requested move 16 March 2022
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Not moved at this time. Politics and war crimes aside, WP:COMMONNAME predominates. It's entirely possible that this will change in the future, perhaps even in the near future! But ... consensus is clear that the sources do not back up the assertion that it's already changed. (non-admin closure) Red Slash 21:46, 22 March 2022 (UTC)
Chernobyl → Chornobyl – The city is commonly known as Chernobyl in English, yet this name is derived from the Russian-language name Чернобыль. According to article 3.1 of the Ukrainian Toponimic Guidelines approved by the United Nations Group of Experts on Geographical Names, "Geographical names of the Ukrainian territory are formed and represented in writing according to the Ukrainian Spelling Rules in all spheres of their official use" (you can find the guidelines here https://unstats.un.org/unsd/ungegn/nna/toponymic/). According to the UN-approved rules of Ukrainian to English transliteration, Ukrainian name Чорнобиль is transliterated as Chornobyl (see the rules here https://unstats.un.org/unsd/geoinfo/ungegn/docs/26th-gegn-docs/WP/WP21_Roma_system_Ukraine%20_engl._.pdf). Besides, using transliterations of Ukrainian geographical names from Russian instead of Ukrainian is a relic of colonial past, not unlike using the name Bombay for the city of Mumbai in India. The usage of such names is especially offensive considering the ongoing fight for independence of Ukraine against Russia, the former colonizer, which wages the war trying to wipe the Ukrainian nation from the face of the Earth in the most brutal way. Leonidslupsky (talk) 11:05, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
- — Leonidslupsky (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- Support - There are countless English language sources now using the spelling Chornobyl including Encyclopedia Britannica, the International Atomic Energy Agency, Power Technology and the National Post. JayAmber (talk) 13:42, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME based on Google Ngrams. We should not be moving article titles based on international politics. Our article naming rules are very clear that the title of an article should be the most common name used in English for a subject. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:33, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
- Support - per Leonidslupsky and JayAmber reasoning. - DownTownRich (talk) 20:15, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose - per the reasons listed by Rreagan007. This is the most common spelling of the location by English-language speakers. Chernobyl uses the spelling. News coverage of the recent takeover of the exclusion zone by Russian troops also utilize the Russian spelling. We should not alter the title of articles because of ongoing geopolitical turmoil, as it can have a chilling effect on viewership and can be confusing for the average person. JohnHawkinsBois (talk) 21:00, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
- Strong oppose per Rreagan007 and JohnHawkinsBois above. The common name in English remains Chernobyl, and I suspect this move was requested for politically biased reasons. O.N.R. (talk) 21:42, 16 March 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per Rreagan007 and others. ♦ jaguar 00:42, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose WP:COMMONNAME applies here. Most people and reliably sourced media still refer their city as "Chernobyl", kinda like how Ganges still a common name against Ganga or Hanover is still common name against Hannover (double n). 180.254.171.93 (talk) 06:57, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 10:21, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose, sympathy for the people of Ukraine notwithstanding. Unlike "Kyiv", this is not the common name in contemporary English (recent sources such as the BBC and the NYT have both "Kyiv" and "Chernobyl" on the same page). Google is a very clumsy and imperfect tool, but on Scholar, "English-language" results are:
- Chernobyl 2022, about 9210 results, page 99 has at least some hits
- Chornobyl 2022, about 590 results
- Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 12:01, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose for now, just as I said for the earlier move request. As of now, Kyiv has definitely emerged as the more common name in English language sources over Kiev, but Chernobyl still remains far more common over Chornobyl. That may very well change, but does not appear to be the case yet. --JonRidinger (talk) 14:01, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- Support – There are enough official reasons for that move, including the ones already mentioned here. The "commonly recognizable name" will not change itself into correct one until we support this change, in Wikipedia as well. Flipping Switches (talk) 16:15, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- This argument explicitly contradicts to our policies and must be discarded.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:52, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- Strong oppose. The English name is Chernobyl. What the Ukrainian government and the Ukrainian propaganda think about it is absolutely irrelevant in view of our policies.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:06, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- And, unsurprisingly, nominated by an obvious sock.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:07, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- Not Ukrainian government and Ukrainian propaganda but name of Ukrainian city in Ukrainian language, opposed to Russian name Chernobyl. Flipping Switches (talk) 02:55, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- What we must be interested in is the name of Ukrainian city in the English language, not in Ukrainian and not in Russian. This is what our policies say. The rest is pure propaganda.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:51, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- Propaganda? What do you think about Kyiv then? 211.238.95.199 (talk) 14:35, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
- What we must be interested in is the name of Ukrainian city in the English language, not in Ukrainian and not in Russian. This is what our policies say. The rest is pure propaganda.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:51, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
- Strong Support "Chernobyl" is a post-colonial russian-soviet legacy that migrated to English. There is no self-sufficient name in the English language for a place name that is outside the United States, Great Britain or other countries outside Ukraine. There is a practice that is simply inherited from English by a foreign russian language. Today it is wrong and incorrect. It needs to change according to the current situation according to the Ukrainian pronunciation of "Chоrnobyl". The city has been a part of Ukraine since 1991, so it is appropriate to change the pronunciation in the English language to the correct one. There are no arguments to leave the old, incorrect and erroneous version of the pronunciation "Chernobyl". See at the Encyclopedia Britannica --Beznazvy (talk) 14:35, 19 March 2022 (UTC) — Beznazvy (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- Support – per the reasons listed by Leonidslupsky and JayAmber --ValeriySh (talk) 13:05, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
- Strong Oppose many sources are adjusting how they name things for political reasons during the ongoing conflict. If they continue to use a different spelling once the political concerns are no longer pressing, we can consider it then. The accepted spelling in English has been Chernobyl for 35 years. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 18:18, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose - The common name is the current title. No need to make it harder to find or a redirect. -- Dane talk 05:50, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
- Support - To help standardize Ukrainian variants in English. Our decision here will also help popularize the name “Chornobyl” in media outlets. — Kostović (talk) 08:09, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose. The nom says,
The city is commonly known as Chernobyl in English
. If that is the case then policy is quite clear that Chernobyl should be the preferred name. The etymology of the term is not relevant. It is not Wikipedia's job to try to change usage as several people have advocated, it is for us to reflect current usage. Kahastok talk 08:57, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
- Support - Most postcolonial city names have been renamed, to better reflect local indigenous preferences. Ukrainian people have explicitly asked for their preferene to be recognised. I see no reason why this should be disallowed in this instance. Taavi5342 (talk) 11:58, 20 March 2022 (UTC) — Taavi5342 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- Strong oppose, and suggest SNOW close (WP:SNOW), albeit with a heavy heart. Chernobyl has always been the WP:COMMONNAME, and User:Justlettersandnumbers's evidence that this has not been changed by the recent (and in my view important) shift towards Ukrainian names in English-language sources is persuasive. User:AFreshStart provides several more instances at the 8 March discussion of authoritative media sources which have switched to Kyiv but have not switched to Chornobyl. Turning to the arguments in favour of the change, User:JayAmber's is the only one based in WP's policies and practice. However, the sources they cite have made the change only very recently and constitute a small proportion of the overall field, so whilst we might observe that a shift is happening (or coming), I think it is WP:TOOSOON to declare that one has taken place—again, see Justlettersandnumbers and AFreshStart's examples. The moral argument that Wikipedia should use Ukrainian names in order to be on the right side of history is persuasive, at least to me, but this is not the forum for it—consensus should be sought at an RfC for a wiki-wide decision to override COMMONNAME. —Kilopylae (talk) 19:09, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
- Support - Whether a spelling is common or not is not written in stone — it's defined by how often it's used. Nothing wrong with intentionally making something more common. This is the will of the Ukrainian-speaking community. Sunny Daelos (talk) 19:12, 20 March 2022 (UTC) — Sunny Daelos (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- We likely have the same person voting multiple times. Anyway, the argument explicitly contradicts to the Wikipedia policies.--Ymblanter (talk) 22:23, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Ymblanter Can somebody get a checkuser to check them. We can not have that in the community. -DownTownRich (talk) 22:27, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per sentiment and reasoning laid out by Kilopylae. Instaurare (talk) 09:06, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per common name. Also, Wikipedia is not here to change national policies or to enact world change. Natg 19 (talk) 19:01, 21 March 2022 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2022
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There 90000 death in total till today, not fewer than 100 2409:4041:2CB6:9D05:C694:EF0A:D2C1:FA6F (talk) 10:51, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
- Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:04, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2022
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Change the page title from “Chernobyl” to “Chornobyl”. The city is an Ukrainian city, therefore I believe Ukrainian spelling is appropriate (like for Kyiv or Lviv). Fairediting (talk) 06:51, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
- Not done: Moving the article would require an WP:RM. We had an RM on this precise move that closed less than a week ago with consensus not to move, so a new RM now would likely be speedy-closed. Kahastok talk 08:14, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
It's Chornobyl, not Chernobyl
editThe name of the article is not right. IhorInki (talk) 20:13, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- Stop russian chauvinism. IhorInki (talk) 20:14, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- Stop Ukrainian nationalism. The English name of the city if Chernobyl. Ymblanter (talk) 20:36, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- Looks like some social media campaign again. May be they should stop financing this and channel money into recovery of the economy. Ymblanter (talk) 20:37, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah, we need to use the common English-language spelling, but your comment is pretty weird, as it would be a pretty neat trick for them to finance an economic recovery while being invaded by Russia and prevented from exporting their grain by a blockade in the Black Sea. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:09, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- Why aren't you banned yet? 211.238.95.199 (talk) 14:36, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
- User:Ymblanter please try to WP:assume good faith and WP:don't bite the newcomers. Your comments trying to denigrate a new editor by associating them with “nationalism” and the “they” boogeyman violate WP:no personal attacks. In case you’re unaware, both spellings are used in English, for example, Chornobyl is in references like the World Factbook and NGA Geo Names Server, so the supposed factual rationale is false. —Michael Z. 15:09, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- Looks like some social media campaign again. May be they should stop financing this and channel money into recovery of the economy. Ymblanter (talk) 20:37, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- Stop Ukrainian nationalism. The English name of the city if Chernobyl. Ymblanter (talk) 20:36, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- User:IhorInki, the Wikipedia guidelines about WP:article titles say we usually use the most commonly used name in English-language sources, and not the official or correct name. To change it, we would have to demonstrate to editors that the spelling meets the huideline and get consensus for the change. Right now, energy is better invested in enlarging and improving articles. —Michael Z. 15:14, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- Mzajac, I have no motivation to start contributing to articles while there are mistakes in names of Ukrainian cities blocked by perverted rules and toxic community like @Ymblanter. IhorInki (talk) 11:08, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
- Which is to say that you are not here to to build an encyclopedia. Ymblanter (talk) 11:40, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
- Outside perspective, theres 2 options here, one is the Russian spelling, one is the Ukrainian spelling, since it is in Ukraine, shouldn't we use the native name, do we use the Ukrainian spelling for any cities in Russia? Although the more common name is the Russian one. I should point out there is a campaign in Ukraine to change Russian names of buildings and streets and cities to Ukrainian ones. To me this seems to be a debate between; common name and native name. The native name is VERY similar to the common name except for a one letter difference. Would people no longer know what we're talking about if we change one letter? I highly doubt it. I support keeping the Russian version for the CNPP page, and the page about the 1986 incident. But for the city itself? I support the native name. 2603:7000:3B40:B500:642A:F29F:796B:1E73 (talk) 22:19, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
- I agree it seems absurd to refer to it by the Russian name, although I suppose it mostly gained international attention when the Russian name was used. It's a tricky one, but I would vote for Chornobyl, for several reasons. It seems destined to become the predominant way to write it, just as Kyiv has become the default one. Media (and many people) don't find it in good taste to use the Russian variant of a place-name in Ukraine in these times, and for good reason, and I can't see any rationale why anyone would revert to using Russian spellings after the conflict is over. Although I know there will be a lot of partisans against it, as evidenced above.--Euor (talk) 21:19, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
- Outside perspective, theres 2 options here, one is the Russian spelling, one is the Ukrainian spelling, since it is in Ukraine, shouldn't we use the native name, do we use the Ukrainian spelling for any cities in Russia? Although the more common name is the Russian one. I should point out there is a campaign in Ukraine to change Russian names of buildings and streets and cities to Ukrainian ones. To me this seems to be a debate between; common name and native name. The native name is VERY similar to the common name except for a one letter difference. Would people no longer know what we're talking about if we change one letter? I highly doubt it. I support keeping the Russian version for the CNPP page, and the page about the 1986 incident. But for the city itself? I support the native name. 2603:7000:3B40:B500:642A:F29F:796B:1E73 (talk) 22:19, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
- Which is to say that you are not here to to build an encyclopedia. Ymblanter (talk) 11:40, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
- Mzajac, I have no motivation to start contributing to articles while there are mistakes in names of Ukrainian cities blocked by perverted rules and toxic community like @Ymblanter. IhorInki (talk) 11:08, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 18 May 2022
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Delete russian names of the city 188.163.113.131 (talk) 12:52, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
- Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the
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Semi-protected edit request on 12 April 2023
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In the last sentence of paragraph one, change Pripyat to Chernobyl. Legofan42 (talk) 14:38, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
- Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the
{{Edit semi-protected}}template. Izno (talk) 17:30, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
Chornobyl v Chernobyl
editIn the English version of the Ukrainian constitution article 16 spells the city as Chornobyl. I would hope that the Ukrainian government is aware of the spelling of their one of, if not the, most famous city in Ukraine.
here's the link to the website I found the constitution on Caucasianhamburger (talk) 14:23, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
- 45 edits in total, again. Ymblanter (talk) 16:35, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
2022 Speculation
editIt’s important to note that it was speculation and not confirmed that radiation levels were rising after the Russian military took control of the city. This makes it sound like western propaganda the way it’s worded. 2601:441:8301:8000:CCBE:EAFE:794C:2C50 (talk) 18:32, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
- What "western propaganda" are you talking about here? 185.113.36.98 (talk) 19:04, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 17 June 2023
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It is not Chernomyl it is Chornobyl. It is a Ukrainian city and Chernobyl is a transliteration from the Russian terrorist language. Sergiwez (talk) 15:36, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for your personal opinion, which, however, it at variance with the policies of the English Wikipedia. Ymblanter (talk) 15:52, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
- Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 17:26, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
Rename the article "Chernobyl" to "Chornobyl".
editI propose to rename this article and to use in future the variant of writing "Chornobyl" instead of "Chernobyl". Because the variant of writing through "o" is the only correct variant and is regulated by the spelling of the Ukrainian language and enshrined in the law of Ukraine. Elvstrem (talk) 15:50, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
- See the FAQ at the top of the page. MrOllie (talk) 15:52, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
- Chornobyl is Ukrainian name of Ukrainian town. I can't understand why Wikipedia would use rusified version of the name created by our former colonizers and current invadors 193.19.254.207 (talk) 14:06, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
- We renamed the articles on Kyiv and Odesa when it was clear that most WP:reliable sources used those spellings (see the relevant talk page discussions). We will do so when it’s the case for Chornobyl as well. A quick search of sources in Google Books and Scholar shows it’s not the case at this time. —Michael Z. 03:41, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
Vladimir Ilyich Lenin Nuclear Power Plant
editIt wasn’t officially named the Vladimir Ilyich Lenin Nuclear Power Plant. That was the official title of the Leningrad Nuclear Power Plant. YakovlevWK (talk) 17:21, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
Cancel the spelling "Chernobyl" and leave only "Chornobyl"
editI believe that using an outdated transliteration from the Russian language is not correct. Because the city was created in the Ukrainian SSR and named in the Ukrainian language, it is worth using Ukrainian Transliteration 45.10.90.10 (talk) 00:35, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- As you can see on this talk page, this comes up frequently. Western media outlets predominantly use Chernobyl and it doesn't look like there is a consensus to change it at this time. Wikipedia follows the usage of common words and not dictate them. Hope this helps answer your question. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 00:47, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
Incorrect title of the article
editThis Wikipedia article spreads the incorrect name of the city of Chornobyl. Please we need to stop the practice of incorrect transliteration of the names of settlements from the Ukrainian language. Renaming the article will help users learn the correct title faster and prevent this error from spreading across the Internet. Mr Amsterdam (talk) 02:47, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- And how is the Ukrainian language relevant to an article on the history of the Soviet Union? Dimadick (talk) 17:37, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 9 August 2024
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Change the first sentence from "Chernobyl (/tʃɜːrˈnoʊbəl/ chur-NOH-bəl, UK also /tʃɜːrˈnɒbəl/ chur-NOB-əl; Russian: Чернобыль, IPA: [tɕɪrˈnobɨlʲ]) or Chornobyl (Ukrainian: Чорнобиль, IPA: [tʃorˈnɔbɪlʲ] ⓘ) is a partially abandoned city in the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone, situated in the Vyshhorod Raion of northern Kyiv Oblast, Ukraine." to "Chornobyl (Ukrainian: Чорнобиль, IPA: [tʃorˈnɔbɪlʲ] ⓘ) or Chernobyl (/tʃɜːrˈnoʊbəl/ chur-NOH-bəl, UK also /tʃɜːrˈnɒbəl/ chur-NOB-əl; Russian: Чернобыль, IPA: [tɕɪrˈnobɨlʲ]) is a partially abandoned city in the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone, situated in the Vyshhorod Raion of northern Kyiv Oblast, Ukraine." Also, replace "Chernobyl" with "Chornobyl" throughout the article, as it's a Ukrainian city and its name should be rewritten according to the transliteration rules. Tortov Roddle (talk) 15:16, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
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