Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/User problems: Difference between revisions

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• Remember to sign and date all comments using four tildes (~~~~), which translates into a signature and a time stamp.
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• Praggan Saha (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)
• Kanika01 (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)

The latter is a sock of the former. Both are recently blocked on enwiki. Jonteemil (talk) 20:27, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. I blocked both and deleted last remaining upload. Taivo (talk) 09:25, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've been going through and cleaning up categories for non-exiting WikiProjects for cities in Iran that were created by User:Orijentolog a few years ago. The categories clearly shouldn't exist since again, there there aren't Wikiproject's that necessitate the need for the categories to begin with Orijentolog subsequently reverted me over 300 times and is continuing to do so even though I told them on their talk page that there's absolutely zero reason to have the categories. Can an admin step in please and tell them to knock off it and that they shouldn't be making categories on here for non-exiting subjects? As a side to that they created a bunch of categories for "buildings by shape" that only contained a single category for towers, which I told them was wrong because "towers" aren't a shape. Apparently they didn't get the point there. So it would be good if they could be told not put categories for things into ones for shapes when the thing isn't a shape to begin with. Thanks. Adamant1 (talk) 04:07, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Only thing you're doing is DESTROYING the categorization and making mess. Nothing else. --Orijentolog (talk) 04:11, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I told you why the categories were wrong and should be deleted. It's not my issue that your unwilling to get the point or don't care about the rules. At least stop reverting me until it's dealt with. Mass reverting someone more then 300 times without even discussing the issue with them first is totally ridiculous. It's also not what the revert feature exists for. --Adamant1 (talk) 04:16, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How can maintenance categories be wrong?! Where did you get such an idea? You saw very well that I opened all those categories, as well as that I'm part of a group which deals with Iran-related images. You did not contacted me or the Wikiproject, just started with hundreds of edits which produced an utter mess in many categories. And you're surprised for getting reverted? --Orijentolog (talk) 05:54, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Comment Now their edit waring me over it. Can an admin just temporarily block them for edit waring and vandalism since they clearly aren't willing to get the point or resolve this in a collaborative way? --Adamant1 (talk) 04:24, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm reverting your vandalism and nothing more. Those categories stood for years and no one had an issue with them, until you come. I'm categorizing Iranian art & architecture for years here, and today you destroyed hundreds of them over a single night. And you ask that I get blocked? --Orijentolog (talk) 06:02, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You reverted me multiple times on multiple files ncluding over 100 times after I opened this. 100% you should be blocked for editing waring and reverting me over 100 after I filed the complaints. Its clearly disruptive, uncollaborative behavior. You should have stopped once I filed the complaint and at least waited to continue it until other people weighed in. --Adamant1 (talk) 06:14, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Disruptive behavior is when you destroy something created by many years, based on subjective ideas. Perhaps you believe they are "great" but I find them as totally nonsensical. To repeat it once again, most of these categories are not intended for existing WikiProjects, but for separating huge WikiProject Iran by city, and they mostly serve as maintenance categories. Towers are buildings by shape for years and there's zero logic to change it. --Orijentolog (talk) 06:30, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Disruptive behavior is when you destroy something created by many years, based on subjective ideas Be my guest and tell me where exactly there's a "WikiProject Karaj" here or on any other Wikimedia project. There's no reason you can't find a better way to separate things in WikiProject Iran that doesn't involve mass creating categories for imaginary Wikiprojects.

most of these categories are not intended for existing WikiProjects I'm aware. Which is exactly why I nominated for them deletion. There's zero reason to have "Wikiproject X" categories for Wikprojects that don't exist.

Towers are buildings by shape for years and there's zero logic to change it. It totally makes sense to change it if "towers" isn't a shape. I don't care if it's been that way for years. It's clearly wrong and how long it's been that isn't a valid excuse to mass revert me or edit war me when I tried to correct things.

Please don't troll here, I said those categories are being used for separating huge WikiProject Iran, not for existing individual projects. They serve its purpose fine. And no, you did not "correct" anything, just making an utter mess all around. I don't care ... it's clearly wrong - again subjective opinions. Towers are defined as narrow buildings or structures, higher than its width. That's related to shape, i.e. the external form, contours, or outline, not necessary to geometric figures. --Orijentolog (talk) 09:20, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Towers are defined as narrow buildings or structures, higher than its width. That's related to shape I agree that something like the word "narrow" is related to shapes. But "narrow" isn't a shape. If your going to put a category in one for categories "by shape" then that's what it should be. If you want to create a category called "square towers" that contains categories for or images of squares towers and put it in a category for "buildings by shape" then cool. Do that, but you can't just put a category for a random tower in "buildings by shape" and then be like "oh whatever. It's totally fine because the towers are narrow and the word 'narrow' kinda sorta maybe relates to shapes. So whatever! Waahhh your just trolling and making a mess!" That's not how this works. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:22, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Comment BTW, I started Commons:Categories for discussion/2024/09/Category:WikiProject Iran by city for anyone that wants to give their opinion about the merits of having made up categories for non-exiting WikiProjects more generally outside of specific issues with Orijentolog's behavior that are why I opened this. I'd appreciate as many opinions about it is as possible so there's a clear consensus on how exactly to handle such categories. --Adamant1 (talk) 23:15, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment I protected Category:Towers in Iran for 2 weeks, and I blocked 5.112.70.121 for a week. Yann (talk) 17:28, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Tô Ngọc Khang (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)

This user has already been blocked for a week for uploading numerous copyvio images of aircraft involved in accidents and their behavior doesn't seem to stop. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 06:25, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. One month block (second block). Taivo (talk) 09:29, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• 6042*UB80*2K36*1890*7269*9WBK (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)
• Asharujayne (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)

Both accounts, created last August, uploaded photos about Japanese animator Shikei Shokatsu that seems to be a copyright violation. 1.33.123.150 06:53, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So far only warning and short block, but if sockpuppetry is confirmed, then longer blocks are needed. Taivo (talk) 09:37, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sockpuppetry confirmed. Thank you. But here comes suspected third account...

• 諸葛子敬 (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)

Asharujayne uploaded File:Shikei Syokatu Portrait 2024 14.jpg, then deleted, then 諸葛子敬 uploaded same file as File:諸葛子敬近影2.jpg, then deleted, then Asharujayne uploaded same file as File:Shikei Syokatu-2.jpg, then deleted. Username 諸葛子敬 means exactly Shikei Shokatsu. 1.33.123.150 22:45, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And here come fourth and fifth accounts: 北京人文大学 (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions), Bujiwaiokma (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions) 1.33.123.150 03:22, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sixth account appears: Jenifadosaga (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions) 1.33.123.150 03:42, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is the real name registered account, please check.The previous error has been corrected, so sorry!! It is now operated by professionals. Jenifadosaga (talk) 03:57, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In addition, the previous account was stolen again, and now it has been recovered through Google account and changed the password. Jenifadosaga (talk) 04:06, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I think Jeremy.toma's behavior should be looked at more closely. He's been told countless times that his way of treating the licencing of his files is wrong. He's now asked for some of his files to be deleted because he's not happy with the way some people are using the files (see Commons:Deletion requests/File:Thoiry (Ain, France).jpg). Now he's adding notes on his images stating that he must be contacted for all reuse of his files, which is contrary to the licence under which he published the files (Special:Contributions/Jeremy.toma). I have come to the point that I fear he'll ask for every one of his files to be deleted at some point. As a lot of his files are used on Wikipedia, this creates a lot of problems. I have already asked him to reconsider his involvement in Commons since he's never made any effort to understand the licencing process of it all. I think it's time an administrator looks into this. Thanks, Espandero (talk) 10:50, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciated the user's uploads and think they are a great contribution to the project.

What's the recommended action to solve the user's attribution problem?

I notice some suggest that users who insist on being credited have their images compulsorily marked the attribution while Jeremy.Toma actively supported efforts to remove in-image credits, but now faces the problem of not being credited at all.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 02:30, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"I would appreciate it if you let me know…", the wording on File:Thoiry (Ain, France).jpg, is fine. Same for «"veuillez me contacter» in an ImageNote, though an ImageNote is a very odd place to put it. Conversely, the deletion request has no merit. CC license are irrevocable.

If he would rather have a different attribution, then at User:Jeremy.toma/License, in {{Self}} he can set the "author" parameter to anything he likes. - Jmabel ! talk 12:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes he says "veuillez me contacter" but the condition on his user page clearly states that anybody who wishes to use his files needs to ask for his permission beforehand. This is not in line with the licencing. And I feel like putting this kind of messages in notes on the image is also contrary to the spirit of free licencing. And the fact that he wishes to erase some of his content because it is being reused elsewhere seems very telling to me. - Espandero (talk) 15:41, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't the problem that some of the reusers don't credit him as required? I think a solution should be found to help the photographer with that.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 11:24, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This user needs to be blocked. He threatened to take legal action against Wikipedia in the Commons:Deletion requests/File:Cologny (GE).jpg thread:

"Si vous m'en empêchez, je serai contraint d'engager des poursuites contre Wikipédia"

I sincerely hope you don't tolerate such threats on this site. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:35, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Blocked indef. --A.Savin 07:07, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's an unfortunate turn of events, but apparently more likely to get image credits back on the images.
 ∞∞ Enhancing999 (talk) 13:18, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• MohsenT021 (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)

Reuploads copyvio after having been given {{End of copyvios}}. Jonteemil (talk) 15:38, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Blocked for a week, files deleted. Yann (talk) 15:55, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I do however suspect that it's possible that this account was created as block evasion of Mohsen.ghezel which was blocked previously. See below.

Timestamp	File	Uploader	Deleted file	Uploader
Sep 04 2024 02:18 PM	File:Khaledabadi.jpg	MohsenT021 (talk | contr | dcontr | accounts | blocks | 19 edits)	File:Khaledabadi.jpg (Und | Log)	MohsenT021 (talk | contr | dcontr | accounts | blocks)
Sep 04 2024 02:18 PM	File:Khaledabadi.jpg	MohsenT021 (talk | contr | dcontr | accounts | blocks | 19 edits)	File:محمدرضا خالدآبادی.jpg (Und | Log)	Mohsen.ghezel (talk | contr | dcontr | accounts | blocks)(different)
Sep 04 2024 02:18 PM	File:Khaledabadi.jpg	MohsenT021 (talk | contr | dcontr | accounts | blocks | 19 edits)	File:محمدرضا خالدآبادی.jpg (Und | Log)	Mohsen.ghezel (talk | contr | dcontr | accounts | blocks)(different)

Jonteemil (talk) 15:57, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Both accounts blocked indef. Yann (talk) 17:31, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Negerimusik (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)

Uploads copyvio after having been given {{End of copyvios}}. Jonteemil (talk) 18:17, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. I blocked the user for a week. All contributions are deleted. Taivo (talk) 06:39, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Ajikeminiooon (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)

Uploads copyvio after having been given {{End of copyvios}}. Jonteemil (talk) 18:32, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. I blocked the user for a week. All contributions are deleted. Taivo (talk) 06:41, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• User: Romanmalikkhan (talk · contributions · Move log · block log · uploads · Abuse filter log) block user
• Reasons for reporting: CIR issue. Posts off topic, unsigned, oos, vandalistic, G8-violating, and nonsense info. Put userpage in Category:Information and Category:General Knowledge. Treated Commons as a social media site.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 22:49, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• User lacks competence. I just had to revert their attempts (plural) to nominate the Help Desk for deletion; apparently in error. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:45, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Done Blocked for 3 months. Yann (talk) 14:05, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can an admin please look at the edit history of Commons:Categories for discussion/2024/09/Category:Towers in Iran and deal with User:Orijentolog's waring bullshit? Adamant1 (talk) 08:16, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is no point in discussing with this person, because he opens discussions with the aim of harassing, accusing and insulting, and he unilaterally removes proper categories all around, thereby disrupting the categorization tree that has been built for years. --Orijentolog (talk) 08:19, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just don't participate in the CfD then. You don't own the categories and you can't just close a CfD after a day and one person commenting just because you don't agree with it. I have every right to start a CfD to discuss with other users if a category system makes sense or not. The only problem here is your petty, uncollaborative attitude and ownership issues.

Also look at the edit history of Category:Buildings in Babolsar by shape where they also reverted me and @Fralambert: multiple times. There's absolutely zero reason I should have had to report his uncollaborative edit waring nonsense twice. --Adamant1 (talk) 08:21, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fralambert obviously intended to remove Wikidata template, as he explained on the sister project, not to delete valid category which is not empty. Opening discussions with false accusations and insults (like that something is "beyond my ability to understand") is not only a violation of the project rules, but is below the level of civilized discussion. --Orijentolog (talk) 08:34, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's pretty clear you didn't understand what I was telling you. I was just trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that it was something you were confused about. It's not like you haven't repeatedly insulting me over and over since this whole thing started though. So spare me the cry bullying. It's still not an excuse to unilaterally close a CfD that had only been open for a day and had commenter anyway. You were clearly just looking for a excuse to shut the conversation down. So I could give a crap. It's not your call to make if other people can discuss it or not just because you created the categories. --Adamant1 (talk) 08:39, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I understood very well, but you continued with misbehavior. And it should be noted that such an arrogant approach has cost you several blocks lately, while I haven't had a single penalty in 15 years of activity. --Orijentolog (talk) 08:46, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What misbehavior? People are allowed to open CfDs dude. It's only an issue because your turned it into one. And your whole "arrogant approach" comment is exactly I'm talking about with the cry bullying. How dare I say you weren't understanding my explanation but it's totally cool for you to call me arrogant. Right. Right. --Adamant1 (talk) 08:53, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

User Adamant1 seems to have a habbit of insulting others in discussion pages and opening very problematic deletion requests. He has been blocked for that in the past and should be given permanent block. Kruusamägi (talk) 12:38, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

yes. @Orijentolog you can just ignore the annoyance, which will soon move on to new targets and forget about you. :p RZuo (talk) 13:43, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@RZuo: Multiple administrators disagree with Orijentolog's actions here and they even got an in edit war with one of them. I know your just being an opportunist here, but you might want to think about if it's worth support that kind of behavior just because of some petty personal beef. For all the hemming and hawing from people like you about how I act I'm certainly not out there anywhere getting an edit wars with administrators. --Adamant1 (talk) 00:27, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've reverted the close. Orijentolog was too involved to close this CfD. Abzeronow (talk) 23:23, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I support a temporary block. This thread shouldn't be about Adamant1's conduct (despite how the comments are going), but it's evident that Orijentolog refuses to take responsibility at hand and I can't see this being resolved through any other means other than a short block. --SHB2000 (talk) 09:47, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• M-ONE GRAND MUAYTHAI (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)
• Prathan-Worramanin (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)

Uploads copyvios after having been given {{End of copyvios}}. Also I think Prathan-Worramanin is a block evasion account since master is blocked on thwiki. Both accounts uploads Muay Thai related media and also there is one account of reupload by the newer account of a file by the master account that was deleted as copyvio. Jonteemil (talk) 09:40, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Blocked the master for a week, and the sock indef. All files deleted. Yann (talk) 09:48, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Kutlwano Maboe (Steak) (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)
• Kutlwanomaboe6 (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)

Promo-only account and sockpuppetry. Jonteemil (talk) 09:50, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Both accounts blocked indef. All files deleted. Yann (talk) 10:12, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• AriyanDnath (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)

Promo-only account. Jonteemil (talk) 10:07, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. Yann warned the user and I deleted his uploads. Taivo (talk) 10:21, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Raaz Tiger (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)

Violates {{No selfies}}. Jonteemil (talk) 10:11, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Blocked, file deleted. No useful contribution anywhere. Yann (talk) 10:15, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• User: Fry72 (talk · contributions · Move log · block log · uploads · Abuse filter log) block user

Reasons for reporting: For years, I have been railing against incomplete deletion requests, which are caused by malformed use of {{Delete}} templates and lack of follow-through, and which are populating subcats of Category:Incomplete deletion requests. This problem spurred the creation of that category 17:57, 1 February 2007 (UTC), over 17 years ago, and my tracking of it 18:16, 14 November 2020 (UTC), over three years ago.

As a precedent, ColorfulSmoke was blocked 17:07, 29 December 2020 (UTC) by Mdaniels5757 with an expiration time of 3 days (account creation blocked) for "Continuing to make malformed deletion requests despite repeated instructions; not responding to concerns on talk page", pursuant to the discussion archived at Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/Blocks and protections/Archive 29#ColorfulSmoke, and Alex Neman was blocked 16:30, 27 January 2023 (UTC) by Yann with an expiration time of 1 month (account creation blocked) for "Continuing to make malformed deletion requests despite repeated instructions; not responding to concerns on talk page" pursuant to the discussion archived at Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/Blocks and protections/Archive 34#Alex Neman.[reply]

• 15:39, 10 August 2022 (UTC): Fry72 made this deleted edit on or before 10 August 2022 (UTC). I reminded them of their mistake in this edit 15:39, 10 August 2022 (UTC).[reply]
• 06:25, 20 September 2022 (UTC): They neglected to respond (removing my reminder), and made such an edit again in these edits 06:25, 20 September 2022 (UTC), and
• 11:13, 20 September 2022 (UTC): I warned them in this edit 11:13, 20 September 2022 (UTC), which they treated the same.[reply]
• 03:52, 27 October 2022 (UTC): They made such an edit again in this edit 03:52, 27 October 2022 (UTC) and
• 10:28, 27 October 2022 (UTC): I again reminded them of their mistake in this edit 10:28, 27 October 2022 (UTC) (I would have gone further, but I couldn't find my previous posts).[reply]
• 18 February 2024 (UTC) (on or before): They made such an edit again in this deleted edit on or before 18 February 2024 (UTC): omitting subpage, transclusion, year, month, and day, and
• 12:09, 18 February 2024 (UTC): I warned them again in this edit 12:09, 18 February 2024 (UTC) and followed up four minutes later,[reply]
• 11:21, 18 February 2024 (UTC): which they promptly removed in this edit 11:21, 18 February 2024 (UTC) and[reply]
• 11:24, 18 February 2024 (UTC): I warned them about that in this edit 11:24, 18 February 2024 (UTC).[reply]
• 07:28, 28 March 2024 (UTC): On 28 March 2024, the user made this edit 07:28, 28 March 2024 (UTC): omitting the reason, subpage, transclusion, year, month, and day.
• 07:30, 28 March 2024 (UTC): They followed up with this edit two minutes later, which at least provided the reason, year, month, and day, but was still missing subpage and transclusion.
• 13:37, 28 March 2024 (UTC): I created the subpage in this edit 13:37, 28 March 2024 (UTC),
• 13:40, 28 March 2024 (UTC): notification in this edit 13:40, 28 March 2024 (UTC), and[reply]
• 14:22, 28 March 2024 (UTC): transclusion in this edit 14:22, 28 March 2024 (UTC).
• 07:17, 6 September 2024 (UTC): That brings us to today. The user made this edit 07:17, 6 September 2024 (UTC): again omitting subpage, transclusion, year, month, and day.
• The user has a history of removing messages with advice and warnings from their user talk page (even in Czech), but not responding to those messages (aside from this edit about deleting them from there) or adjusting behavior. Please block them.

  — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 11:05, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jeff G.: it is really hard to read that solid block of link-filled prose. Would you mind if I reformat it as bullet points to make it easier to follow? I won't change any content. - Jmabel ! talk 12:02, 6 September 2024 (UTC) [now reformatted - Jmabel ! talk 12:19, 6 September 2024 (UTC)][reply]

@Jmabel: Please go ahead.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 12:12, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reformatting done. Sorry I don't have the focus to follow this up further right now (traveling, and very tired), but at least that should help someone else follow this. - Jmabel ! talk 12:19, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jeff G.: This particular instance aside since I haven't looked that much into it, but what causes incomplete deletion requests to in the first place? I ask becauase it seems wierd someone would or could intentionally do an incomplete deletion request even they wanted to since its just a matter of pushing a button. --Adamant1 (talk) 02:05, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Adamant1: Causes are mostly manual actions with defects by users who ignore the automatic Nominate for deletion or Nominate category for discussion tool in the Tools menu on the sidebar provided by the AjaxQuickDelete gadget per COM:DR#Starting requests and COM:CFD#Starting requests:

• {{Delete}} uses with missing timestamps go to Category:Deletion requests - No timestamp given‎;
• ones with missing reasons go to Category:Incomplete deletion requests - missing reason‎;
• ones with missing subpages go to Category:Incomplete deletion requests - missing subpage‎;
• and ones that are malformed go to Category:Malformed deletion requests‎.

In CoffeeEngineer's case, the cause is the use of "{{No permission since|month=August|day=28|year=2024}}" as the reason.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 12:11, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• User: Ayratayrat (talk · contributions · Move log · block log · uploads · Abuse filter log) block user
• Reasons for reporting: CIR issue. See also Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/Blocks and protections/Archive 35#Ayratayrat and Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/Blocks and protections/Archive 39#Ayratayrat. Already blocked 3 times.

  — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 15:14, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See Commons:Deletion requests/File:Kalinator Geneva.jpg and User talk:Kalinators. It's unclear whether this foul-mouthed IP user is in fact User:Kalinators while not logged in, but this kind of abuse should not be tolerated. I would suggest a block plus a warning, but do whatever you folks want to do. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:31, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done I blocked the 2 IPs for a week, and deleted the file. I also warned Kalinators. Yann (talk) 22:32, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The image is back at File:Stefanov120524.jpg. See also comments at [1] and [2]. C F A 💬 00:41, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@CFA, deleted the file and issued a final warning. _Regards, Aafi ^(talk) 03:46, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done blocked Kalinators, for obviously NOTHERE. ─ Aafī on Mobile ^(talk) 13:16, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

... And they're back again as Greatpig923. File is back as File:Sportspeople1.png. C F A 💬 02:34, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Accounts now globally locked. --SHB2000 (talk) 09:50, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to complain about the discussion, I had with this user. In his activities, he refers to an unrepresentative closed CFD, ignores my request to wait before a discussion could be held and deliberately wants to provoke me. I both disagree with the user's behavior as he disregards the guidelines. I have suggested a resumption of the previous discussion, it was ignored. It cannot be that a simple CFD of so few users contains the opinion of the global community from so many countries, this should have been discussed in the respective subcategories of the countries. I would now like to know how to behave correctly so that my opinion can be respected and discussed. --Cookroach (talk) 04:09, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Copying this from another discussion) If you had a legitimate compliant about a specific part of guidelines that I wasn't following, cool. I would have been (and still am) more then happy to do anything in the guidelines that I'm currently not doing. All you did was make a vague assertion that I wasn't following the guideline, accused me of being arrogant, and then reported me to ANU over a bunch of things that seem to have absolutely nothing to do with me what-so-ever. I said you could discuss this on the Village Pump if you thought it needed more discussion. But as both Pi.1415926535 and I have pointed out it was open for 4 years already and has been closed for 1 year since then. So I don't really think there's a reason to re-open it. Maybe some aspects of it can or should be worked out better. I have zero issue with that, but I don't think it justifies reporting me to ANU simply because you think the CfD didn't have enough participants at the time. That's not my problem. Nor is it my responsibility to re-open a CfD that I didn't participate in or close to begin with. --Adamant1 (talk) 04:35, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

However, as I have already written, you have ignored the guidelines to first look for a suitable alternative and to add a note in the subcategory. Moving everything to the category above and deleting the subcategory without asking is against the spirit of the CFD and against the community. And I only asked you to wait a little while before you do what you do until we have discussed it, which you ignored. Your behavior is definitely worth complaining about, as you wanted to provoke me further. If you don't know the difference between "history" and "historical images" in German usage, then I don't understand why you do it and didn't simply accept my offer of a discussion about it to find a suitable alternative. I can't imagine that the term "history" is used in the same way in all 100+ countries, so asking is a good alternative. A simple reference to the existing CFD would have been enough, instead of sledgehammering away at moving images and deleting categories.--Cookroach (talk) 05:00, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

to add a note in the subcategory. What sub-category here? I don't think it's necessary, practical, helpful, or even required to add a note to every single category that the images get up-merged to. As far as I know that only applies to the main category. Know one from what I've seen adds a note to every other random category that's slightly related to a CfD somehow.

Moving the category above and deleting the subcategory without asking is against the spirit of the CFD and against the community. Where did anyone in the CfD say random users had to be asked about it before phasing out the categories and who exactly should be consulted here when there's 39,000 categories involved in it? That was the point in the CfD to begin with anyway, but you'd have to admit it would be impossible to deal with this if there had to be separate discussions for all 39,000 individual categories before they were phased out. There's certainly nothing in the guidelines saying that's the requirement. There's already note about it on the talk of Category:Historical_images. That's enough. --Adamant1 (talk) 05:21, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The number of categories affected has absolutely nothing to do with the procedure or the guidelines, that a hint should not have been given beforehand. You cannot go through hundreds of country categories without giving a notice about the CFD. Nobody understands and wants that! If your work is so important to you, then talk to people instead of going over their heads, we are a community of volunteers with an interest in what we do. We don't want know-it-alls who keep explaining "their" world to us, but we have content-based projects to spread open knowledge in the world. Such actions and the way you carry them out prevent new users and alienate existing ones. Then you also have the wrong tone in the discussions, which is not what I'm used to here. So I'm asking you again polite in public to wait with your further activities until we have discussed it in our german-language community.--Cookroach (talk) 05:45, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Again, who should I have notified about it? It's a simple question. Why not just answer it instead of wasting my time with the condescending pablum? Just between you and me I told another user a few days ago that they should have notified people about it on the Village Pump or something after the CfD was closed. It's not my job to do that a year later as a random editor who's working on this as a side project on the weekend. Especially given that I wasn't involved in the CfD to begin with.

I have zero problem with notifying a few users here and there when I think it's necessary and I actually have been. I told you as much in the original conversation. I'm not going to hold off on editing in the area in general while you consult with the German-language community though. As I've said, your free to discuss it with other Germans, but whatever local consensus you decide on won't hold any weight if it goes against the outcome of the CfD. So your likely just going to be wasting your time. Be my guest and waste it but that has absolutely nothing to do with me or phasing out the categories in the meantime though. Like I've said, you talking to other people from the German community and the categories being phased out aren't mutually exclusive. Like I have any control over who talk to or what you talk to them about though lmao. --Adamant1 (talk) 06:10, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can't you or don't you want to understand? Not only are you violating the CFD you are referring to, you are also insulting an entire language community. So you are saying that a clear vote from several dozen long-standing Wikimedians would be worth less than the under-representative CFD you are referring to. We are not in an elite group where you can do whatever you want, but in a community of equals. There are deep abysses in your opinion. I don't think there is any point in trying to talk to you sensibly. I am therefore maintaining my complaint and expect a neutral vote from an admin who was not involved in the CFD.--Cookroach (talk) 08:44, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

you are saying that a clear vote from several dozen long-standing Wikimedians would be worth less than the under-representative CFD Yes, because that's been my experience. In general small, local groups can't go their own way and ignore the outcome of a project wide CfD. Otherwise there'd really be no point in doing them, having things like The Universality Principle, or really guidelines in general. Again, that's just what I've seen. Maybe an admin can give their opinion about it though.

We are not in an elite group where you can do whatever you want Sure, that's exactly my point about why I don't think a local consensus would override the project wide consensus. Your the one acting like German users are an elite who can do whatever they want here. I'm just saying that I think the outcome of the CfD should be followed, which is just common sense and totally reasonable. To the point that's weird your even attacking me over it. Apparently it's a big sin to you that have I respect for the process and consensus though. Anyway, that's really all I have to say about it for now. I would be interested to know what an admin thinks about your opinion that it's fine for you to ignore outcome of the CfD. But I'm done with my side of this outside of that. --Adamant1 (talk) 09:04, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, you're now presenting it that way so that they're not to blame. But they are definitely the cause of the discussion here. If they had complied with my request to wait, it wouldn't have come to this. And yes, they are not behaving according to the rules, even if they would like to portray it the other way round. The CFD clearly states no category deletion without a sensible alternative - you have done that! The rules say to give a note to the users of the category - you have not done that and do not want to do it in the future. So you have clearly broken the rules. I just feel as part of the community and by no means elitist, but they automatically claim to be right and base this on an unrepresentative CFD that has not been fully discussed. No matter how long they keep copying my words because they don't have enough arguments of their own, I think their actions are wrong and against the community. I don't want to comment on the other things and your bad words, but there is a saying: "a hit by dog barks".--Cookroach (talk) 09:40, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The rules say to give a note to the users of the category - you have not done that and do not want to do it in the future. "I have zero problem with notifying a few users here and there when I think it's necessary and I actually have been. I told you as much in the original conversation." Shrug. --Adamant1 (talk) 09:48, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Cookroach: I know this is about conduct but: the category in question (Category:Historical images of Zeitz) seems awfully vague. How old does such an image have to be to be "historical"? Why aren't they categorized more like Category:Zeitz in the 19th century, Category:Zeitz in the 1890s, etc.?

Adamant1's tone wasn't the greatest, but neither is the claim that you were excluded from a CfD that was literally left open for years before someone decided consensus had been reached. - Jmabel ! talk 12:10, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Jmabel Yes, you are unfortunately right, but I didn't know anything about the CFD and the process behind it beforehand. I would be happy if we could come to an agreement. I will make sure that we find a sensible categorization within the German Commons community under the main category "History of...". I have only asked that the postponement be paused for the time being. That's all, but Adamant1 did not want to allow that and kept citing the closed CFD as an argument, which is why I consider his approach questionable in terms of the CFD. We are now at this point and I cannot allow this argument to be made and a very large active group within the Commons community to be denigrated. I therefore ask that you explain to the user: Adamant1 that he is not allowed to ignore the rules agreed in the CFD.

• to make a reference to the CFD if he wants to make changes or deletions based on it
• not to delete any subcategories "Historical images of ..." until another sensible subcategory has been found.

By the way, this has nothing to do with the German community, but would affect all countries where these changes are to be made.--Cookroach (talk) 12:38, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Two things.

• 1. I've asked you multiple times where I'm supposed to reference the CfD or who I'm suppose to reference it to. You never answered me though.

• 2. I'm not going to relitigate every edit I've made to a "historical images" category, but I do find sensible subcategories in some cases. In other cases there isn't one and "history of" is perfectly fine temporarily until something better comes along. With the "historical images" categories specifically related to Germany, you immediately reverted me and demanded that I stop what I was doing. So that wasn't any way I could have put the images in sensible subcategories if I wanted to. I'm sorry I didn't do something you where actively getting in the way of and yelling at me not to do though. My bad for listening to you and stopping I guess. As a side to that, I'm perfectly fine with ReneeWrites suggestion. I was actually planning on doing something similar thing Cookroach demanded I stop what I was doing so they could throw a fit about it. --Adamant1 (talk) 12:55, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to subcategorize these images by time period (by year for a few images, by century for others) as well as create a broader subcategory for black-and-white photographs of Zeitz. There are a few images of an engraving from 1650 that could probably be given its own subcategory as well. Would that work as a compromise? ReneeWrites (talk) 12:53, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello ReneeWrites Thank you for thinking about it, but this is not about the few pictures of Zeitz. Your suggestion is a feasible option. No, here this is about the way user:Adamant1 about it. He has ignored the rules of the CFD, which he is referring to. And said that my objection was irrelevant and that the entire German community with many thousands of images in these categories could do nothing about it. This is a defamation and denigration of years of voluntary work by several hundred users, which I cannot let stand. The objective solutions for the specific case in Zeitz are therefore secondary and we can discuss these on the discussion page there. We will certainly find a suitable solution there, similar to your suggestion. I would like to clarify one thing here: is a user entitled to refer to a CFD and disregard its agreed rules if this is pointed out to him? Can he interpret the rules for himself as he has done here - also without a note in the subcategory to be deleted and simply move the images to the respective parent category. If they answer yes, I am in favor of reopening the CFD with all the consequences. Otherwise, it would be enough for me, if the user: Adamant1 thought about how ignorant he was towards the community and acted after the rules as described above in the future.--Cookroach (talk) 14:22, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have absolutely no clue what your talking about and it seems like you can't even give a single example of anything your claiming I'm doing or tell me what I should be doing instead. So the only issue I see here is the repeated false accusations and insults on your end. As I've said before, I'm more then willing to do anything differently if you can point out what the actual issue and how I should do it differently. Your not really giving me anything to worth by just going off about how I'm defaming and denigrating German users though and assuming good faith is a thing in meantime. So I'm more then willing to propose a boomerang if your not willing to say exactly what the problem is, how I can fix it, and lay off the insulting, accusatory tone. Otherwise I have absolutely no problem proposing a block for your needlessly combative tone and filling a clearly false ANU complaint. I much rather this just be dropped though since it's clearly just a time suck. --Adamant1 (talk) 21:53, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Mr.Adamant1, I don't need to give you any examples, you've done enough of that yourself. You want to request a ban against me, please try! My crime is probably having an opinion and expressing it? You have not followed the rules that are clearly stated in the CFD: see Quote Pi.1415926535 "There was also clear consensus only to delete subcategories once they have been replaced by more suitable and less vague categories." If that's worth applying for a ban for you, then fine. I don't see any wrongdoing on my part other than not understanding the CFD process at the beginning. They now claim that they are open to factual arguments, but that's not true! It was only when I continued to discuss it here that they partially gave in. Two short examples:

• Quote: "You can't just create your own way of doing things against the consensus or despite how categories are for other countries just because a couple of people in your little group agree with you about it." = Defamation and denigration; You assume that I want to go my own way and only represent a few opinions or think that I am better than others! But the exact opposite is the case, you do not represent the majority (insufficient participation in the CFD) and think that with this tailwind you can make the changes without giving any notice or looking for alternatives beforehand, as it says in the CFD.

• Quote: "What I'm saying is that you can't create a local consensus to keep "historical images" categories based on a conversation with a few people in Germany against the broader one that the categories should be phased out." = repetitive and deliberate misrepresentation; It is suggested that I would want to violate principles and rules. My only request was to give me some time to discuss the topic with the community, which you do not want to comply with.--Cookroach (talk) 22:55, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

see Quote Pi.1415926535 "There was also clear consensus only to delete subcategories once they have been replaced by more suitable and less vague categories." And as I've told you multiple times I'm doing exactly that. Sometimes it's putting the images in categories by subject, by date, or just temporarily up-merging them to "history of" categories until something better comes along. But your accusation that I'm not following what Pi.1415926535 said in their closing comment is patently false. That's a large part of the problem here. You keep criticizing for me things that either aren't issue or that I'm not doing to begin with. --Adamant1 (talk) 11:26, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cookroach has made many insulting comments and false accusations towards me in the course of this whole thing. They also filed an ANU that is clearly totally baseless. Just to give a few examples of the many that are out there:

1. "You are acting arrogantly against the ideas and spirit of the community."

2. "He moves pictures and deletes categories without setting a note according to the guidelines and looking for suitable subcategories or discussing this first." (I've said several times now that I've discussed it other users and find suitable subcategories for the images)

3. "Be careful they aren't getting personal again and don't have their tongue under control."

4. "Do you now want to forbid me from expressing my opinion or discussing it with others?" (I told Cookroach multiple times that I had no issue what-so-ever with them discussing it on the village pump and asked them to clarify things multiple times.)

5. "He ignores my request to wait before a discussion could be held and deliberately wants to provoke me." (see number 4. Also, I haven't edited anything related to this since the conversation started)

6. "You have ignored the guidelines to first look for a suitable alternative and to add a note in the subcategory." (see number 2)

7. "We don't want know-it-alls who keep explaining "their" world to us." (Nowhere have I said I know everything about this or tried to "explain my world view" to anyone)

8. "you are also insulting an entire language community. So you are saying that a clear vote from several dozen long-standing Wikimedians would be worth less than the under-representative CFD you are referring to." (Nowhere have I "insulted an entire language community or said anyone's vote is worth less then the vote of anyone else)

9. "There is a saying: "a hit by dog barks" (I'm not a dog and I really don't appreciate being compared to one)

10. "Adamant1 said that my objection was irrelevant and that the entire German community with many thousands of images in these categories could do nothing about it. This is a defamation and denigration of years of voluntary work by several hundred users." (See number 4. nowhere did I say his or anyone else objections were irrelevant)

11. "if the user: Adamant1 thought about how ignorant he was towards the community and acted after the rules as described above in the future."

12. "They responded to a comment in the ANU complaint by again claiming it was "Defamation and denigration." (Both are serious accusations that shouldn't be made without actual evidence)

There's also this ANU complaint. Which is clearly totally baseless. Regardless, the repeated insults, false accusations, and their general bad attitude about this goes against the principle of assuming good faith and shows they have no ability what-so-ever to work with other users in a collaborative way. So they should either be blocked or at least receive a warning. Personally, I find the repeated claims that I'm ignorant and somehow defaming or denigrating users simply for giving my opinion to be particularly egregious and against the rules. At a bare minimum he should be told that those types of comments aren't acceptable. --Adamant1 (talk) 23:50, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm in full agreement with Adamant1 here. This CfD had been open for 42 months when I closed it, with no comments in 4 months, and had a higher-than-average level of participation. There was a clear consensus to depreciate and delete "historical images" categories, and the arguments for deletion indicated that there were fundamental flaws with that category structure. I absolutely stand by my close. This kerfuffle seems to be a small number of users who are unhappy with the result of the CfD trying to overturn it by repeating their previous arguments and demanding a special process.

I find the behavior of Cookroach and DenghiùComm in the discussion to be highly inappropriate. They have both engaged in unsubstantiated accusations and personal attacks, some of which are documented above. The complaint against Adamant1 should be closed, as no action is needed there. If there is a need to discuss the particulars of depreciating these categories, it can be done without personal attacks or refusal to accept the CfD result. If Cookroach and DenghiùComm continue their inappropriate behavior, admin action may be needed. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 17:42, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I told Cookroach in another discussion I've talked to multiple people who created some of the "historical images" categories as part of phasing them out over the last couple of weeks. No one has had an issue with the CfD or me deleting the categories, except for Cookroach and DenghiùComm. There certainly doesn't appear to be any support for rehashing it. Although a few people did say it would have been nice if the outcome of the CfD was announced on the Village Pump after the it was closed, but I don't think that means it's worth re-doing the whole thing. Maybe that's something to think about for the next time a CfD is closed in a way that has such wide ranging consequences though. But I think that's the only legitimate complaint Cookroach or DenghiùComm can make about this and it certainly doesn't warrant how their acting. --Adamant1 (talk) 18:35, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

After careful consideration, I have decided not to insist and to withdraw my complaint. I also admit that my choice of words was not the best and I apologise for that. But Mr.Adamant1 should also be a little more diplomatic in his choice of words. However, I saw no other means of challenging what I considered to be the wrong course of action, as the people involved did not give me any proper information. I will keep a watchful eye in future when new CFDs come into circulation. However, I insist that the images be moved only from the Category: "Historical Images of ...", when suitable new subcategories have been found, as it stated in the CFD. For me, that would be the end of the matter.--Cookroach (talk) 19:58, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW: I would agree that the "Historical images" category is (barely) better than nothing. I wouldn't go just throwing it away, but I would treat it more like a maintenance category saying, "these images need some decent categorization instead of this catch-all." Pinging @Adamant1 in case he isn't following every edit here.

But there is no admin issue involved. - Jmabel ! talk 07:36, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have a problem with that. Although at least IMO "history of" isn't better. It's just a more accepted version of the same thing. So I see nothing wrong with shuffling images from one bad category to another equally bad one if it at least means there isn't pointless duplication. It's not like I am doing that to begin with though. I had fully intended to move images into more appropriate categories from "history of" before Cookroach got involved and I had actually done that in a couple of instances. So your not telling me something I don't already know or hadn't planned on accounting for. --Adamant1 (talk) 07:40, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Utan VCRSN19 (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions) Some recent copyvios after multiple warnings, including the last one. See also: COM:Administrators' noticeboard/User problems/Archive 114#User:Utan VCRSN19 and @Taivo: . Quick1984 (talk) 06:46, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. One week block and I mass deleted all remaining uploads. Taivo (talk) 09:06, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• User: CoffeeEngineer (talk · contributions · Move log · block log · uploads · Abuse filter log) block user
• Reasons for reporting: Made a mess and refused to clean it up on the file description pages mentioned in this edit, currently sullying Category:Incomplete deletion requests - missing reason. I cleaned up the previous mess with the same cause, as documented at User talk:CoffeeEngineer#Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Negerimusik.

  — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 12:12, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've fixed the "no reason" issue, and explained how to use VFC on their talk page. —Matrix(!) {user - talk? - _uselesscontributions} 13:47, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Matrix: Thanks!   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 23:46, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• User: Charlesjsharp (talk · contributions · Move log · block log · uploads · Abuse filter log) block user
• Reasons for reporting: Long history of argumentative tone, as seen and mentioned above in #User:A.Savin.

  — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 12:26, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

IMO we shouldn't have just an open section about a user -- need some diffs to substantiate "long history". — Rhododendrites ^talk |  13:14, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

IMO, this ANU complaint should be not about long history of inappropriate behaviour (though there definitely is such), but about this terrible and unsubstantial accusation in particular. Because, if this is left unsanctioned, this of course would be a clear message to him and others that this kind of comments are tolerated in general. Please remember, that blocks are not punitive but preventative. --A.Savin 19:58, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Rhododendrites: See also Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/User problems/Archive 55#User:Charlesjsharp, Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/User problems/Archive 80#Charlesjsharp, and Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/User problems/Archive 62#Charlesjsharp.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 00:00, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Only one of those is good evidence, really. Maybe I'm used to the enwp way of doing ANI, but usually new sections without a bunch of diffs about a long-time user just get speedily closed. Not saying there's no merit here -- just needs more effort to substantiate. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  01:14, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jeff G.: We really need some recent evidence, i.e. not stuff from five-nine years ago. —Matrix(!) {user - talk? - _uselesscontributions} 20:11, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Support at least a strong warning if not a block. Admittedly I didn't look to much into this but IMO it's at least worth giving them a stern warning that their behavior isn't a appropriate and will lead to block if they continue it. Although a block might be justified to. I just don't want to go that far myself since I don't have the time or energy to read all the back story at this point. --Adamant1 (talk) 00:05, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• For sake of making it a bit more clear, can we have a list of diffs that best highlight your reason for posting here, Jeff G.? — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 02:00, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Red-tailed hawk: In this edit, the user made a "terrible and unsubstantial accusation". Yann suggested opening a threa[d] above 09:33, 8 September 2024 (UTC). Colin accused the user of "incompetence with the tools" here. See also:[reply]

  • https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons%3AValued_image_candidates%2FFemale_Gal%C3%A1pagos_small_ground_finch.jpg&type=revision&diff=180638822&oldid=168382267
  • https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons%3AValued_image_candidates%2FFemale_Gal%C3%A1pagos_medium_ground_finch.jpg&type=revision&diff=180638901&oldid=168382276
  • https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Valued_image_candidates/Jamaican_satyr_%28Calisto_zangis%29.JPG&action=history
  • https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Valued_image_candidates/Velutina_cracker_%28Hamadryas_velutina%29.jpg&action=history
  • https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Valued_image_candidates/Dark-winged_skimmer_%28Diastatops_pullata%29_male.JPG&action=history
  • https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons%3AValued_image_candidates%2FFridericus_spreadwing_%28Ouleus_fridericus%29.JPG&type=revision&diff=180639110&oldid=169069125
  • https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Red-billed_firefinch_(Lagonosticta_senegala_senegala)_male_(l)_female_(r).jpg&diff=prev&oldid=232634421
  • https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Pied_kingfisher_(Ceryle_rudis_rudis)_female.jpg&diff=prev&oldid=232634227
  • https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Pied_kingfisher_(Ceryle_rudis_rudis)_eating_fish.jpg&diff=prev&oldid=232634074

    — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 04:59, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Jeff G. and Red-tailed hawk: Are these 'examples' not all from 2015 and 2017? In 2019 I was indeed 'incompetent with the tools'. Referring to Colin's post from 2019: at QIC, if you post a comment after someone has voted to promote, 'promoted' changes back to 'nominated'. I was not aware of this Wikimedia Commons glitch that has never been rectified. Independent Admins should also be aware that, I am reasonably sure that neither A.Savin nor Yann, despite being regular voters at FPC, have not supported any of my 200 most recent FPCs (186 were successful). I've not supported theirs either. Charlesjsharp (talk) 09:59, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Support A block for two weeks. Charlesjsharp attacked me on a lot of my nominations on FPC to try to push me down --El Golli Mohamed (talk) 23:50, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

•  Comment Revenge post. This user was blocked on 14 April for posting the comment 'Fuck you'. Charlesjsharp (talk) 09:26, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  He attacked me so much that I ended up insulting him and I was punished for it. I didn't do it for free. El Golli Mohamed (talk) 18:32, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The block was imposed after our differences, including his revenge votes, were examined. Charlesjsharp (talk) 18:56, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Everything is revenge for you Charles, you are an angel Lol El Golli Mohamed (talk) 21:16, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Laurel Lodged (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Laurel Lodged seems to be acting retaliatory after files related to a monument they voted to keep were deleted due to NoFoP law in Azerbaijan. They have started spamming every category and file they find related to Azerbaijan with the "NoFoP-category" tag. This includes very broad categories like Category:Reliefs in Baku (link), Category:Busts in Baku (link), Category:Monuments and memorials in Şəki (city) (link), among many others (search "NoFOP" on their contributions page).

Another user reverted some of these incorrect additions, and it was explained to Laurel on their user page, with my additional comments addressing other incorrect additions that hadn't yet been discussed. Unfortunately, this yielded no results.

Just a day after my comment, Laurel re-added the "NoFoP- category" template to Category:Statues of animals in Qəbələ, which I had removed because the category was too broad. They argued that the category was specific enough to justify the tag. I brought the issue up again on their talk page. They responded by claiming to have a "good understanding of the meaning of the template" and suggested I start a discussion on the category talk page if I wanted to remove it.

To ensure I wasn't misunderstanding the template, I inquired about the appropriate use of the "NoFoP-category" for such cases at the Village Pump and informed Laurel about the discussion. Everyone who commented agreed with my interpretation that the template shouldn't be used in such categories, yet this feedback was ignored by Laurel, and the template on Category:Statues of animals in Qəbələ still remains.

To make matters worse, Laurel has now discovered a new template to misuse. They are adding the "NoFoP-Azerbaijan" template to images of ordinary roads, metro trains, pools, and more, claiming these images are copyrighted. I reverted their additions in two instances, to which they responded on my talk page. Although they conceded on one file, they continue to add the template to similar files and even make snarky comments in response to my explanations.

After days of cleaning up their mistakes and trying to explain their errors, I am at a loss for what to do next. Hence, I'm seeking assistance here. — Golden ^talk 13:59, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Completely disingenuous complaint. The complainant has a previous history for unsavoury behaviour in Azeri POV pushing that earned him a wiki ban. Disclosure: I've also had my problems with Wiki but not for the interminable Azeri/Armenian dizpute. I have applied the templates complained of in good faith. Where there have been errors, I have acknowledged them. For the rest, I have honest reason to believe that the the tagging is legitimate. Where there is doubt, the matter is still under debate and far from reaching a conclusion, let alone one contrary to my interpretation of the application of the templates. This nomination is just wiki-lawyering. I urge you reject this SLAPP. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:07, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Laurel Lodged: Do you at least agree with the general idea that it's probably not good practice to add the template to general categories since there might be works in them that are PD? --Adamant1 (talk) 00:07, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with that general idea.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 05:00, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. I agree with that general idea. Since the discussion started on the Village Pump, I have stopped using the category template altogether except for named pieces of art. For example, I tagged Category:Bust of Uzeyir Hajibeyov in Shusha. I don't think that there can be any doubt about the correctness of that tag. Having said that, I still maintain my position that my interpretation of the operation of the category tag is correct. There is some support for this interpretation in the Pump discussion. I will of course be bound by the consensus view of the Community when it emerges in due course. Laurel Lodged (talk) 10:17, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Something I've had to learn the hard over the years is that your only right in any given situation as far as other people agree with your position. If no one agrees with you, then your wrong. Extreme relativism maybe, but that's just the kicks. Anyway, I wouldn't put to much weight into the one person who agrees with on the Village Pump. It's always better to people in an ANU complaint then to side one other user in a different discussion, even if they are semi-related. But I accept you that you agree with the general idea here. Personally, I don't think this is worth the electricity and hard drive space, but it's still good you agree that the template shouldn't be used for categories about general subjects. --Adamant1 (talk) 11:24, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As of yesterday, Laurel continues to add the NoFoP tag to files like this, claiming that simply having a pavement in the picture is enough to make it copyrighted. It's clear this user has little understanding of how copyright works and is unwilling to listen to those more knowledgeable than them. — Golden ^talk 19:35, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any reason to think the poster in the background of that image or even the image itself wouldn't be copyrighted? According to the Commons:Copyright rules by territory/Azerbaijan government works are PD, but then the source of that image says "© 2010-2024 Official web-site of the President of the Republic of Azerbaijan. All rights reserved." So I don't think it's that clear. Things in the background of an image can be copyrighted regardless of if the actual image is anyway though. --Adamant1 (talk) 00:16, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Laurel's rationale for the tag wasn't the poster though; it was the pavement. To my knowledge, ordinary public roads, pavements, and similar features without any artistic value aren't subject to copyright. Additionally, NoFoP doesn't apply if copyrighted structures aren't the main focus of the image or don't occupy majority of the frame, so the presence of some buildings in the background shouldn't render the entire image copyrighted either.

Regardless, the issue is that Laurel continues to mass-apply these tags to files that either clearly don't fall under NoFoP or have an unclear status that should be discussed first. They haven't been willing to constructively engage in such discussions since August, leaving people like me, who work on files related to Azerbaijan, to sift through each addition to determine which of Laurel's tags are legitimate and which are not. — Golden ^talk 07:10, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Fiorinaio05 (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)

Violates {{Dont reupload}}. Jonteemil (talk) 18:18, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Blocked for a week. Yann (talk) 19:35, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you also delete all the previously deleted files they uploaded? Jonteemil (talk) 20:31, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

all these uploads are copyright violation and fake license please delete all[[User:Modern Sciences|MSes]] (talk) 03:51, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Bedivere (talk) 04:52, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• User: Danteldlp (talk · contributions · Move log · block log · uploads · Abuse filter log) block user
• Reasons for reporting: Continued oos uploading after deletion of same and continued vandalism after warning for same.

  — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 03:59, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done No uploads since August 22. No immediate admin action required. _Regards, Aafi ^(talk) 04:23, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Aafi: The first section of Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Danteldlp was decided in this edit on 28 August after the user vandalized it. I'm sorry, I assumed that when Omphalographer started the second section, that it was about new files. It turns out that the second section was about the rest of the files. So now, the user has no uploads left and can be considered NOTHERE.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ please ping or talk to me🇺🇦 05:14, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

please delete upoads of this user and block the account.

Kazemi1991 is Sockpuppet of Yousef kazemi

[[User:Modern Sciences|MSes]] (talk) 05:55, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. I blocked Kazemi indefinitely and deleted both his uploads as obvious copyvios. Taivo (talk) 09:44, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I recently nominated some personal artwork for deletion that was uploaded by a user, User:Donald1972 who's now globally locked for using multiple accounts. An IP editor, 109.178.170.151, then came along and tried to argue the images should be kept. Their only edits seem to revolve around the files uploaded by Donald1972. So it's pretty likely that it's just them socking again. So can an administrator look into it and block the IP address if their connected? Adamant1 (talk) 18:44, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Blocked for 3 days. Yann (talk) 09:09, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. --Adamant1 (talk) 10:23, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do not think that @Bedivere: should have access to admin tools. They are involved in a harassment campaign against me. See: Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) where they nominated 423 of my uploads as revenge for reversing a single edit they had made. I am pinging @Andy Dingley: who wrote: "(targeted at any editor here) is the sort of action that raises very real concerns over the fitness of an admin". Now Bedivere has used their admin rights to delete more files after promising to disengage after my first complaints. Here is the new batch deleted out of process: File:Emile Kellogg Boisot (1859-1941) probate in The Pasadena Post of Pasadena, California on February 9, 1941.jpg File:Marion Boisot (1897-1990) and Byington Ford (1890-1985) engagement in The San Francisco Examiner of San Francisco, California on November 7, 1920.jpg File:Marion Boisot (1897-1990) engagement photograph in The San Francisco Examiner of San Francisco, California on November 7, 1920.jpg I don't think they have the level of maturity or the temperament to have access to admin tools, if they are using the tools for revenge and harassment. Is this the place to ask to their access to admin tool to be revoked? RAN (talk) 02:14, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My actions were based on policy and were not personal or retaliatory. The files in question were reviewed and deleted according to Commons' guidelines, and I have always acted with transparency. If you believe my admin actions need review, I encourage you to follow the proper channels, but please refrain from making unfounded personal accusations and attacks. Thanks. Bedivere (talk) 02:35, 10 September 2024 (UTC) PS. You failed to notify me but I did read it on my watchlist.[reply]

The only thing that these files have in common is that they were uploaded by me. If you honestly felt that probate records were not "educational" you would have nominated the entire category. This all started because I reversed a single edit that you had made, and now you are using your admin tools to get revenge and harass me. You have also migrated your campaign to Wikidata to harass me there. And even left a message to recruit others to harass me. --RAN (talk) 16:47, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

While the logistics of that deletion request were poor (smaller nominations of closely related files would be better), you have provided no evidence either the (months-ago) DR nor these deletions were retaliatory. RAN, this is far from the first time that concerns have been raised about whether some of your Commons files and Wikidata items are in scope. I can hardly imagine why a newspaper clipping of a probate notice would be in scope. I would focus your energies on things like reducing the number of blatant copyright violations you upload, and perhaps find somewhere else to host things related to your ancestors. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 03:13, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Funeral notices in the United States are considered ineligible for copyright since they contain publicly available information, and are devoid of commentary that would meet the threshold of originality. The only thing these files have in common is that I uploaded them. --RAN (talk) 03:41, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Dear brother of...", "Eight adoring grandchildren"... "Beloved husband..." "Devoted father...". Sure, not creative at all. Bedivere (talk) 04:33, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See: this search for the phrase "devoted father" appearing in funeral notices, it is a stock phrase used since the 1800s. These stock phrases were part of the reason that they were declared ineligible for copyright. The funeral director fills out a form with these phrases preprinted. If two people filled out the form, the contents would be identical. --RAN (talk) 16:58, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was involved in at least a couple of DRs having to do with files uploaded by RAN. Along with a few deletion requests related to their personal genealogical on Wikidata. Plenty of people other then Bedivere have said what they are doing is out of scope on both projects. The only issue here is unwillingness to get the point and stop using Commons and/or Wikidata as a personal webhost. There's plenty of other websites out there for storing personal information about family members. --Adamant1 (talk) 03:31, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Where is the DR for File:Emile Kellogg Boisot (1859-1941) probate in The Pasadena Post of Pasadena, California on February 9, 1941.jpg ? It was deleted as "COM:WEBHOST" (no other comments or the link to the DR). COM:CSD does not have a category for COM:WEBHOST.

These files might have been deleted by a DR. But they do not fall under any valid reason for CSD, and it is an abuse of the speedy deletion process to single-handedly delete them like this even if they are files we might decide to delete by DR. Andy Dingley (talk) 08:37, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment I have restored the files mentioned above. Usually historical documents are in scope, and the reason provided is clearly not valid. Anyway, these are not eligible for speedy deletion. Yann (talk) 09:14, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• See also: Commons:Deletion requests/File:Marion Boisot.jpg where Bedivere is overriding community consensus and abusing their admin rights. --RAN (talk) 17:03, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Yes, I don't understand why it was deleted. @Bedivere: Could you please undelete the file, and revert your closure? Yann (talk) 18:32, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What community consensus? It was first CSD'd by an uninvolved editor, CSD objected by none other than Greghendrson2006, then I nominated for deletion, and a third uninvolved editor questioned RAN's interpretation of "file in use". It's not just a matter of tallying up !vote counts. The very presence of objection to retention being raised means there's no solid consensus. Graywalls (talk) 22:09, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Yann I am sorry but I am not reverting my closure. My decision was based on the solid proposal by @Graywalls, and my opinion in general is that historical documents are in scope but they should also have a potential use in Wikimedia projects. I'm all for genealogy as long as it is thoroughly documented in prose in a Wikipedia article, but most of the people who are the subject of RAN's and Greg's uploads are not notable and their only use corresponds to the Wikidata items they have created themselves. I am an avid genealogist myself, but I know my limits and know that Wikimedia Commons is not only not my personal webhost but that most of my ancestors and relatives are not worthy a Wikimedia Commons category or page, let alone have their photos and documents uploaded. I do understand your point of preserving historical documents, but what's the point of preserving materials that most likely will never have any use on Wikimedia projects (excepting the Wikidata items the uploaders themselves created for their non-notable relatives). If I was trying to be retaliatory or vindictive (for which reason anyway) against RAN or other people I would not be trying so actively to make them understand that their use of Wikimedia Commons is disruptive and it is not just my opinion but that of many other people. Greg and RAN both have the same behavior so I am not surprised they support each other's position in that DR and that's why I decided upon the basis of the nomination, whose arguments were not refuted by the commenters. And finally, it is not a vote, the decision was taken on the strength of arguments. Bedivere (talk) 00:32, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Bedivere: That's bad decision, but worse, you shouldn't close the UDR when you deleted the file, and it is controversial. I am going to revert that. Yann (talk) 09:48, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

+1 to Yann, for UDR. _Regards, Aafi ^(talk) 10:55, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The undeletion request was for the category, not the files though, but I don't mind having it restored. My point is already explained. Bedivere (talk) 13:09, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• That sounds good but the evidence is that the image was in use at the time of deletion per the file history. Commons:Project scope: "A media file that is in use on one of the other projects of the Wikimedia Foundation is considered automatically to be useful for an educational purpose. ... It should be stressed that Commons does not overrule other projects about what is in scope. If an image is in use on another project (aside from use on talk pages or user pages), that is enough for it to be within scope." --RAN (talk) 00:45, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  You continue to deliberately ignore the facts. You created the item so that the file was "in scope" here. The Wikidata items are linked from Commons and so they are "in scope" there. I could go and create some Wikidata items for some completely irrelevant neighbor of mine, upload a couple of photos, link them here and there and then pretend they are in scope on Wikidata and Commons. If that is not actively disrupting the projects (Commons and Wikidata), I don't know what is. Out of respect, and expecting somebody else to take the mop, I haven't taken more severe action against you and several others who have acted and continue to pretend me and others as fools. Fortunately, just today, some deletions have taken place on Wikidata and I am sure you can't call the deleting admin a retaliatory or vindictive one. Bedivere (talk) 01:08, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Exactly. That's what we got on hand with extremely non notable people like run of the mill editor writing articles on their mom, dad, grandma, and grandpa, nephews, nieces, the houses they loved in, their pets, the businesses they started. Graywalls (talk) 01:48, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  RAN accuses anyone who disagrees with them of harrasement or being retaliatory. I hardly have anything to do with him myself but apparently I'm harrassing him just because I voted to delete a Wikidata item for one of his family members. Go figure. --Adamant1 (talk) 03:54, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He also deleted multiple photos that I uploaded. My friend created them and released them, and I supplied how they were marked with the YouTube CC-BY Marking. They were still deleted. See here: Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by LordBirdWord LordBirdWord (talk) 02:41, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

George Micro has no rights to release these images under a CC-BY license on YouTube or anywhere. That is why other files were deleted before and that is why yours were speedily deleted too. Bedivere (talk) 02:48, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Sultan fahad alshahrani (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)

Violates {{No selfies}}. Jonteemil (talk) 07:59, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Blocked for a month, files deleted. Yann (talk) 09:35, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Khodjiyev Maruf Makhmudjonovich (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)
• Khodjiev Maruf Makhmudjonovich Jeweler (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)

Sockpuppetry. Sock is blocked on ruwiki for what appears to be advertising. Jonteemil (talk) 08:14, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also probably all uploads by both accounts are out of scope and should hence be deleted, or at least gone through. Jonteemil (talk) 08:15, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Sock blocked, master account warned. Some files deleted. Yann (talk) 09:41, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• GoldenGully (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)

This user is only uploading copyrighted contents from social medias. CoffeeEngineer (talk) 19:39, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done. No activity after last warning in 17th of August. Taivo (talk) 09:21, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kironshikder (talk · contributions · Statistics · Recent activity · block log · User rights log · uploads · Global account information) (assign permissions)

This user not only uploaded a bunch of images that were deleted a year or two ago, but they just did it again. Pretty low urgency, I understand, but someone more familiar with Commons should at least keep an eye on them just in case. I dream of horses (talk) 22:01, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment It is important to know that his last uploaded photo's description (File:Ziaul.png) states that it was directly uploaded from Facebook. Looks like he is not maintaining copyright law. Mehedi Abedin 22:28, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. I warned the user. All contributions are deleted. Taivo (talk) 09:23, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will admit, in the past I did upload pictures that were copyright. I apologize and it is my fault.

Currently I am 1 copyright violation away from being blocked. It makes sense, if some of the photos that were deleted and taken down weren’t against copyright.

These include File:Mighty Music Group with Afroman (cropped).jpg (the original was deleted and since I cropped it, I got a violation), File:Karroll for POTUS 2024.jpg, File:Art Olivier 2024 via art2024.org.webp (Photographer Art Olivier he sent email to VRT) File:Randall Terry in 2024.jpg (cropped image of other image that is copyright).

In addition, I uploaded File:William Lee Hunt for President.jpg 2 times before I uploaded this file. It was deleted because they claimed the YouTube video it’s from (https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=iAvDIO7Z-b7OCe3o&v=F0i5KXMs2A4&feature=youtu.be) doesn’t have YouTube CC-BY marked, though it does. It’s currently being deleted again for the same reason, along with files File:Jackie Carpio, Host of Personal Politics.jpg and File:Daví for President.jpg that are derived from the same video.

Also, File:Tony Jones for Narragansett Town Council.jpg is being deleted because the moderator claims it’s not marked with YouTube CC-BY, though it is in the following video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=3ZXoth_HOQDkiwYa&v=1A4majDGAJY&feature=youtu.be

I apologize if I’m wasting whoever is reading this’s time. I just wanna know if I’m in the wrong or not.

Thank you, LordBirdWord LordBirdWord (talk) 22:43, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]