Talk:Northern California

I don't get it[edit]

Why do we need this? What's here that's not on (or couldn't be on) the PR article? Serpent King 21:03, 31 December 2016 (EST)

Because the Smash regions are significant concepts that are frequently mentioned in the community, and it's a good page for people who are more interested in learning about the Smash community and its history. Awesome Cardinal 2000 21:15, 31 December 2016 (EST)

Ehhh, I'm with SK on this. It looks like annotated versions of two lists, which are already listed elsewhere with the PR and the player/tournament categories, which doesn't necessarily warrant a page of its own. The title is also pretty unencyclopedic. Miles (talk) 21:19, 31 December 2016 (EST)

How is the title unencyclopedic when that's what everyone in the Smash community uses to refer to the region? I don't see what kind of better title you want for this. Also, the lists are annotated, so that readers can find more information about them, and the tournaments are also in chronological order, unlike the alphabetical jumble found in the category section.

These pages are meant to be assessments of the historical Smash regions, instead of just a bunch of lists and numbers. I'll also point out that OT, our competitively knowledgeable admin, has been vouching for these pages and adding links to them in articles for years. If you don't like the page as it is now, suggest ways it can be improved or things that can be added instead of demanding its deletion. Awesome Cardinal 2000 21:27, 31 December 2016 (EST)

If we were to keep it, which I'm still not quite convinced of, it would need all of the following:

• A better title (even just "Northern California in competitive Smash" would be an improvement)
• Coverage of scenes beyond Melee
• Actual history beyond just a chronological list of tournaments with one-sentence annotations

Otherwise, it (and other regions) should be condensed to "List of [game] tournaments by region" and the like, and not attempt to pass off a few tables as a prose page. Miles (talk) 21:39, 31 December 2016 (EST)

Then add them in instead of straight up trying to get this page deleted. I've already added Smash 4 and Brawl information for the Tristate Area page and I plan to add that in for all the other regions I've made so far. "Northern California in competitive Smash" is redundant and unnecessarily long because anything on this wiki is already implied to be about the Smash series; also the term "Northern California" specifically refers to the Smash region, not just the generic place name.

I don't know too much in-depth info about the history of each region, especially before the release of Brawl, but you and others are welcome to add the information in if you know a lot about it. But don't go trying to delete articles about a topic that SmashWiki has been sorely missing for a while now. SmashWiki is a wiki that anyone can edit, and we should be working to improve the ideas of others instead of shooting them down.

And if you're still not convinced that these pages are a good idea, then actually explain your reasoning and logic behind it. Why should I have to be the one convincing you when you didn't respond to anything I said? Awesome Cardinal 2000 21:47, 31 December 2016 (EST)

I can't think of a good reason to have segmented versions of this...it just seems like bloat to me. Also, because we have one competitive oriented admin gunning for the creation of this page is not a good reason to create it. SmashWiki is to be a consensus driven community. We do not make decisions based on the will of one person, however competent they are.

If the creation or deletion of these pages are in question, it seems to me that productions should be stopped until a decision is made. I do not appreciate your "well I am going to do it anyway" attitude. Serpent King 22:45, 31 December 2016 (EST)

Except these regional articles are not just "segmented versions" of the history of the general Melee competitive scene; that's like saying that an encyclopedia on the fifty U.S. states is basically a segmented history of the whole country, even though every state has its own unique history and the state articles go into much more specific detail. A regional smash scene works in a similar way; it covers much more region-specific aspects than a history of the Smash scene in general.

And the opinions of one person should hold more weight when that one person has far greater knowledge of the competitive scene than any of the other admins here, and actually participates in the competitive community. I'm not saying that we should just only listen to OT on this matter, but you should respond in further detail to why this would be bad if you want me to back off on this.

Also, I stopped editing the pages after I saw your comment on the talk page. I don't see why you're reprimanding me for a "well I am going to do it anyway" attitude when it's pretty clear that I haven't done anything since you guys brought this up. Am I being too aggressive or am I refusing to listen to you? Because debating the matter on a talk page is not disobedience in any way. Awesome Cardinal 2000 23:24, 31 December 2016 (EST)

It just seems to me like the information would fit better on the PR or elsewhere instead of trying to make an article out of players, tournaments hosted, history...for every community, keeping in mind how many there are. Serpent King 01:01, 1 January 2017 (EST)

There's a lot of different regions, but there aren't so many to the point that they're completely unmanageable. Most Smash regions roughly correspond to country or state lines, but some cover multiple states, such as Maryland/Virginia and New England. In addition, there are plenty of states in the Rocky Mountains and the Great Plains with almost nonexistent tournament activity, so there aren't that many places that need to be covered in such detail. As long as there are people willing to write the articles (such as myself), getting them completed shouldn't be the most concerning issue. If some of the articles lack information, we can just tag them as stubs, as has been done for countless other articles that need expansion. Awesome Cardinal 2000 01:43, 1 January 2017 (EST)