Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ohio/Townships taskforce/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Wikipedia:WikiProject Ohio. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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I created Wikipedia:WikiProject Ohio townships yesterday after having gone through and manually created articles on all the townships in Butler, Warren, and Clinton counties, e.g. Oxford Township, Butler County, Ohio.
There is a wealth of data on each township in the Census data, which are also available more easily through Ohio State's site. Bots were used to create articles from this data on all of Ohio's villages and cities and I wonder if someone would be willing to create and operate a bot for me to add the Census data to the existing articles and to create new ones. I have some guidelines on the project page for how these articles should be set up. If someone's interested, please let me know on my talk page. PedanticallySpeaking 15:20, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)

I'm working on the Bath Township article and am following the advice here. One thing I would suggest for the project is to include the Mapit-US-cityscale template in the external links like cities do, in addition to map showing the placement in Ohio. This seems better than getting a map from the Census Bureau. All it takes is something like this: {{Mapit-US-cityscale|41.168823|-81.636582}}.

If you have the co-ordinates to do that, that sounds good. As I have not worked with the mapit template, would you add it to the project article? PedanticallySpeaking 16:23, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

How about also including something on other government services such as municpal court coverage, and the police and fire departments? The courts will be the county court for major crimes and a municipal court for minor ones. Police coverage could come from the township or the sheriff. Fire protection could come from the township or some sort of district volunteer departments.

I believe I said something about police and fire under government. Certainly that should be noted for the townships. And as to what courts have jurisdiction, that is also appropriate. A subhead under government, perhaps? A list of all the municipal and county courts and their ambits should be put on the county page as well. PedanticallySpeaking 15:49, Apr 29, 2005 (UTC)

You're right "operating police and fire departments" in the government section. I've otherwise put the court info into the two township pages I've worked on.

I propose that those townships which were a part of the Connecticut Western Reserve also be added to the category, "Category:Western Reserve". I've done this for the townships of Portage County, and there are a few articles of townships in Summit County which are ready to be categorized as such. -SwissCelt 10:31, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Something I'm noticing, that seems to be the case throughout the Western Reserve: Municipalities are invariably separated from the townships from which they are formed, as though they withdrew from their respective townships. This may be due to some leftover Connecticut state or colonial code; I'm researching the details on that. In any case, the Census data reflect this pattern. Cities and villages are counted separately from their townships in every case I've encountered thusfar in the Western Reserve. (Of course, this isn't the case in Logan County, which was formed from the Virginia Military District, the Congress Lands, and the Land Between the Miamis-- not the Western Reserve.) -SwissCelt 02:38, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

We should also be sure to note if a township is an urban township, and thus has limited home rule government per chapter 504 of the Ohio Revised Code. I've started a list of such townships at List of urban townships in Ohio; however, this list needs a lot of work. For more information on urban townships, follow the above wiki to its article, or look at the article for Boardman Township, Mahoning County, Ohio. -SwissCelt 18:07, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks to the (unfortunately anonymous) Wikipedian who started the articles on townships in Auglaize County! Could that person please step up and take a bow? It's great that this project is catching on. -SwissCelt 23:50, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

This discussion originated on my talk page. I'm moving it here on Beirne's suggestion to get input from other participants in this project. -SwissCelt 15:54, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

I see you categorized Youngstown as a township. While that is technically true, it isn't what most people think of as a township. People looking at the category are probably looking for regular townships, not the paper ones. They can look elsewhere for the cities. --Beirne 04:23, May 28, 2005 (UTC)

Twice now I had a long explanation typed up, only to have the browser eat it when it crashed. *grin* So let me quickly summarize my reasons:

* The project prescribes this.

* Historical continuity (Youngstown's history is such that development was all but planned to go from unplatted land to the city it is today)

* Geographical continuity (with the Western Reserve's grid system of twps. at 5 mile intervals)

* Urban townships: There are three in the Youngstown area, with a fourth that would qualify if only the trustees were to pass a resolution to that effect.

The last three reasons make a "Youngstown Twp." article desirable. The first reason prevents a separate article to be written for the township; and even if one wanted to write a separate article, there's no township separate from the city on which to write an article. Youngstown isn't a "paper township"; the township is the city, and the city is the township. -SwissCelt 05:32, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Based on the historical point I guess it does make sense to include Youngstown. The situation is a little trickier there than in a city like Akron where the township had a different name and was incorporated into two cities. I think the wording in the project is overly broad, though. We should decide if paper townships should be included in the category. That discussion should probably move over to the township project page. --Beirne 12:34, May 28, 2005 (UTC)

I wrote an article on paper townships some time ago. My preference is that paper townships should not have their own articles unless there's something historically notable, e.g. the Millcreek Township, Hamilton County, Ohio one or are completely defunct Deerfield Township, Warren County, Ohio. I would not be inclined to list them in the township category because cities, villages, and townships are distinct in Ohio law. Youngstown is a city and is regulated by Ohio law on cities, not Ohio townships. Its status as a township is no more, having been superseded by its status as a municipal corporation. Perhaps you could create a subcategory within Ohio townships, say Category:Paper townships in Ohio? PedanticallySpeaking 17:49, May 28, 2005 (UTC)

Thing is, I'm not sure Youngstown is a paper township. There are a few municipalities in which the township literally became the municipality (Streetsboro comes to mind), or in which the municipality and township merged to create a governmental entity (Aurora, Hudson, a few others in the Western Reserve). This leaves not even a paper township to speak of.

I find it interesting in the Western Reserve that municipalities are counted separately from townships in Census data. From that, and from talking to my father (a township zoning official in Windham Twp.), I get the idea that municipalities do not "withdraw" from townships in the Western Reserve; they are created from them. In every case I've found thusfar in the Western Reserve, the municipalities do not belong to the townships in which they are located. Thus, the mechanism that creates paper townships elsewhere in the state just would not apply in the Western Reserve, as there is nothing from which to withdraw. I'm still searching for a source which confirms this. -SwissCelt 18:34, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

I don't know about all municipalities, but Richfield village belonged to its township until recently. Peninsula belonged to Boston Township in the past and still may unless the township succeeded in ejecting it so it wouldn't have to share money from the Roush estate. I had to distinguish this in one of the township articles I wrote because it the township included a village.--Beirne 12:34, May 29, 2005 (UTC)

It isn't completely clear to me what counts as as paper township. I'll move that discussion to that article. --Beirne 12:34, May 29, 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I think I got around the problem of "paper" vs. "former" townships by creating a new subcategory of "Townships in Ohio" called "Defunct townships in Ohio". All articles regarding paper and former townships should probably go there, though I think they should still be listed in the List of Ohio townships. -SwissCelt 19:55, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

This sounds like a good solution. I have some townships in Summit County to put there. --Beirne 12:34, May 29, 2005 (UTC)

Sorry I haven't been paying attention to this debate. I don't know of any reason why Western Reserve townships would be different than those elsewhere in the state except that I expect most of the ones there would correspond to surveying townships, which is rarely the case down here by Cincinnati. Most municipalities in the state are in their townships, the ones which have withdrawn are the exception. One way to see if a city is in a township is to check the tax rates the County Treasurer would issue to see if a corporation is also paying township taxes. See the last line here, for example [1] and you'll see that London in Madison County is not paying township taxes; that means it's left Union Township.

• After having a talk with a township Trustee what I'm getting is that in order for a city to Withdraw from a township, a township must be created with the exact borders as the city. this has something to do with all Municipalities being a part of the townships they are created from. A City will be a part of it's township. unless they create another township to create a separate and distinct entity. for example: North Canton which lies within Plain Township. North Canton no longer wishes to reciprocate property taxes to the township. North Canton City Council petitions the County Commissioners who have the authority to create and modify townships. County commissioners then overlay the new "Hoover Township" to cover the exact borders of North Canton and Viola. So in theory A city that's withdrawn from it's township add a township to the county.or at least that's what I've been told.

Also, According to the Youngstown 2010 website. the last of Youngstown township was annexed by the city of Youngstown in 1929. So I guess it could qualify as a paper township no?

Just finished Auglaize County townships (my home county) here, hope to work on Allen County next (my birthplace), and then on to Montgomery after that (my residence). I'll appreciate any suggestions or edits (I'm good with grammar, just bad with typing and still getting the hang of everything). Good work everyone!

PS: I noticed some of Montgomery's township should be redirects, mainly Mad River-Riverside and Madison-Trotwood, can someone do that or lead me to the tutorial on redirecting pages? Thanks Prinzwilhelm 19:44, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

I've proposed a standard form for naming articles on Ohio school districts: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Ohio school districts), which could easily be extended to apply to districts in other states. I'd welcome some feedback on this. PedanticallySpeaking 16:54, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

I have made black and white county maps for all 88 Ohio counties and put them all on Commons. These show all cities, villages, townships, and census-designated places. I have also put them on each county article that did not already have one of User:Prinzwilhelm's nicer color maps (see Allen County, Ohio for one of Prinzwilhelm's maps). Please let me know on my talk page if you find any errors or omissions - these are edited from larger Census Bureau maps and I may have missed a label on chopping out the county from the larger map.

I have noticed Navigation boxes on a few Ohio county pages that list only Townships. I would suggest / argue strongly in favor of Nav Boxes for the whole county (i.e. all cities, villages, townships, and census-designated places) and not just townships, especially when so few townships already have their own article. As an example, Wayne County, Ohio has such a Twp nav box, however all of the townships are red links and they are not listed separately in the article itself (beneath cities and villages).

For examples of two styles of county nav boxes, see Northumberland County, Pennsylvania and Alameda County, California. There is a discussion on this starting at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. counties if anyone is interested. Ruhrfisch 14:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Is Kelleys Island, Ohio a township (as well as a village and island)? The main article makes no mention of it being a township and it was not on the original list of Erie County, Ohio townships, but now there is also a Kelleys Island Township, Erie County, Ohio article (very stubby). I saw this a while ago and kept meaning to ask here. If it is not a township, the article should be deleted and the county list fixed. If it is a township, that should be added to the main article and I would make the Twp article a redirect to the main article. Just curious, Ruhrfisch 18:46, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I looked on the Erie County web page and it is not listed as a township [2] but as a village. I will noiminate the article for deletion tomorrow unless someone corrects me. Ruhrfisch 20:07, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll check the Secretary of State's Register which lists all townships and see what it says. PedanticallySpeaking 14:30, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks - I wonder if it was a township before it became a village? Ruhrfisch 15:07, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
• well This Map Here says there is a Kelly's Island Township. as to whether or not it's an original I'm not sure. Ohio Township Map. My guess would be that either they Made the island a township unto it's self OR they Made a square projection around the island and the water. Captainkang 05:26, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the map - it is a great resource. The map's caption says in part "This map is intended to show the majority of townships that currently exist or have existed in the past. Especially in urban area, all or parts of some townships may have been incorporated into cities or villages." I also note (as one example) that it lists Mill Creek Township, Hamilton County, Ohio, which is defunct (part of Cinincinnati now). So since the Erie County official webpage lists Kelleys Island as a village and not a township, my guess is that it is a defunct township, now wholly part of the village. In any case, let's wait for PedanticallySpeaking's check of the Register. Ruhrfisch 10:26, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

The Register does not list any such township by that name. I also checked the DeLorme Company's Ohio Atlas and Gazetteer and it's not there either. The Erie County Auditor here has posted the tax rates for various jurisdictions. It reports the Village of Kelley's Island is not in any township. PedanticallySpeaking 14:49, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

• • • Thanks PS - I appreciate your looking into this very much. What should we do with the Kelleys Island Township, Erie County, Ohio article then? Nominate it for deletion? Edit it to say it is a defunct township (and put a sentence into the main KI artcle that it incorporates the former township)? Add it to the list of defunct Ohio townships? Ruhrfisch 20:52, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Ok if no one objects I'm to Start adding this and other Defunct Townships In Ohio to the Category of the same name. Since Most of these already redirect to the city there shouldn't be that much hassle. although considering almost all of the townships In Cuyahoga county are Defunct and without pages maybe notCaptainkang 04:33, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Technically, all land in Ohio is in a township, but sometimes it is in what's called a paper township, e.g. Cincinnati is in Millcreek Township. Presumably that's what this is, a paper township. I'd delete the township article and make it a redirect to the article on the village. PedanticallySpeaking 15:20, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

• I made the Kelleys Island Township article into a redirect and moved the map there to the main article. I was uncertain what if anything to put in the main Kelleys Island, Ohio article about the former township. I also was not sure what to do about the township's entry in the list of Ohio twonships. Just mark it as defunct? Ruhrfisch 15:19, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello. Just signed on to the project. Am currently working on Concord Twp. in Lake Co. (draft here). I will work on remaining twps. in Lake and Geauga to start.

I noticed that the main project page mentions a "to do" list. I couldn't find one, which is probably due to my inexperience. Does one exist, and, if not, should we create one? I would be glad to get the ball rolling and create the page. --KeithB 15:04, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 19:15, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 22:17, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I only just found out about this wikiproject... You might be interested in a comment I left at the Ohio project concerning this stub-sorting project proposal for Ohio geography. In short, what's the best way to split the increasingly-numerous Ohio location stubs up? Alai 07:30, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with the indicated naming convention of including the county name in the article title even when there is only one "X Township" in Ohio. It goes contrary to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (settlements) and its benefit is better realized by using the categories for counties already in use. -- JHunterJ 10:42, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

It certainly seems redundant; and is it really local usage when the townships are unambiguous? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:57, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

This is an archive of past discussions about Wikipedia:WikiProject Ohio. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

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Archive 5