Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Civility in infobox discussions/Evidence

The Arbitration Committee has directed that all discussion on the talk pages of this case must be sectioned. When commenting, please use an individual section and comment only in your own section. Clerks and arbitrators are exempted from this requirement. For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 17:37, 3 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This case is now closed and pages relating to it may no longer be watched To request an amendment or clarification of an Arbitration decision, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment. To report a violation of an Arbitration decision, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement. To request the assistance of an arbitration clerk, see Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Clerks.

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Behaviour on this page: Arbitration case pages exist to assist the Arbitration Committee in arriving at a fair, well-informed decision. You are required to act with appropriate decorum during this case. While grievances must often be aired during a case, you are expected to air them without being rude or hostile, and to respond calmly to allegations against you. Accusations of misbehaviour posted in this case must be proven with clear evidence (and otherwise not made at all). Editors who conduct themselves inappropriately during a case may be sanctioned by an arbitrator, clerk, or functionary, without further warning, by being banned from further participation in the case, or being blocked altogether. Personal attacks against other users, including arbitrators or the clerks, will be met with sanctions. Behavior during a case may also be considered by the committee in arriving at a final decision.

As a reminder to all, and in answer to questions on the /Evidence page, the scope of this case is about conduct, not about infoboxes themselves. We're interested in diffs about the conduct of the users in disputes about infoboxes. Please read the scope of the case and provide diffs accordingly. Thanks. Katie^talk 23:03, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@BU Rob13, Amortias, and KrakatoaKatie: I'm pretty sure I'm over the word limit, and I've only looked at one of the parties. The instructions aren't all that clear as to how to go about getting an extension, so apologies if this isn't the right place to do so. Alternatively if you want me to leave it- that's fine too. jcc (tea and biscuits) 15:48, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This should suffice as a starter. A guestimate on how many words your likely to need would be appreciated though. Amortias (T)(C) 15:51, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Let me get back to you on that, but briefly looking, I can't imagine it'd be that much more. jcc (tea and biscuits) 16:25, 14 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

We can give you an extension here if you can show a good reason, or you can contact one of us privately if you prefer. Your evidence so far seems thorough so I'd be inclined to grant one, though I'd remind you that it's important to be as concise as possible. Katie^talk 00:40, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Howdy @Jcc:, it would look more consistent & better fitting, if you would sign your Evidence posts :) GoodDay (talk) 00:49, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• 1,480 words from Mcandlish; he's not listed as a party, isn't the limit just 500? - SchroCat (talk) 00:07, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it is and notification will be made shortly.Amortias (T)(C) 00:35, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. - SchroCat (talk) 01:16, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Mcandlish: given your "evidence" at request phase was deeply misleading (per Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Civility in infobox discussions/Evidence#Inclusion as party), and most of your current comments are either equally misleading or too historic to be reflective of current behaviour at IB discussions, don't you think it's time you dropped the stick? You may well have acquired some historical information through 'closely observing' me, but dropping it onto the evidence page (three times over the limit when you're not a party) just seems a bit of a waste of everyone's time. I'm still waiting for any evidence of wrong doing over the last year (or since October 2016, when ArbCom last turned down a request for an IB case). - SchroCat (talk) 01:16, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• I'm also looking through your (mcandlish) Request page statement, and I don't see your request to be considered a party. I must have missed it when I skimmed through: can you point out where it was? - SchroCat (talk) 01:26, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Still 658 words over a 500-word limit. Mcandlish isn't a party, and I can't find a diff for him requesting to be a party - I must have missed it somewhere. - SchroCat (talk) 02:01, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Can I ask the clerks or arbs what I can do when I see a straightforward lie in someone's evidence against me? I've already outlined a significant amount of untruthful nonsense, but it's getting more ridiculous now. - SchroCat (talk) 20:26, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requesting extended comment limit. As I said on the Request page, I consider myself to be a party. Given that I sought to have SchroCat added as a party, and the primary source evidence about his behavior, I don't think it's procedurally possible for me to to not be party. Leaving me off the party list appears to be an oversight.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  01:02, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• We're discussing this now. SMcCandlish, for now, don't worry about reducing all the way down to 500 words, but whether or not we add you as a party, there are probably some things that can be cut out. In particular, infoboxes themselves are out of scope of this case, so commentary on a way forward for infobox disputes (while good comments for solving the content dispute) is probably unnecessary for this particular case. Feel free to move that to the talk page if you think it should be preserved but are willing to cut it out of Evidence. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 18:58, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  It shall be so.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  19:24, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Moved from the evidence page

The behavior issues are not limited to that topic. ArbCom can't resolve the underlying infobox issue anyway; the community doesn't have a uniform view about them. There are a few narrow exceptions (e.g. a solid consensus to have a {{taxobox}} on every species article), not because WP:TOL or any other wikiproject says so (and the most frequent nexus of infobox dispute – FA – is a wikiproject within the meaning of WP:CONLEVEL), but simply because of a lack of controversy about those particular cases. Where non-trivial controversy remains, there's not a consensus, by definition. It unfortunately really does come down to a "Does an infobox help on this particular article?" analysis.

What the community can probably do, with effort, is develop criteria to answer that question. We're good at that sort of thing (cf. WP:CRITERIA, WP:N, WP:CSD, WP:NOT, WP:AADD, etc.).
 — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  00:28, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Moved by me, per suggestion above.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  19:26, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just wanted to let anyone interested know that the evidence phase will close at roughly 20:00, 20 February 2018 (UTC). Thanks. For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 04:46, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Cassianto was uncivil in my pursuit for an infobox in the Mary Shelley. He said on my talk page that the writer can "own articles and that infoboxes bastardize articles.

Editors are free to make relevant comments on this page as necessary.