Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shane Jiraiya Cummings

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep --Haemo 00:33, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shane Jiraiya Cummings

Shane Jiraiya Cummings is one of seven articles (now listed at AfD) created by a new user. These articles seem designed to advance the publisher, Brimstone Press. I have listed them separately so that they may be considered separately. Shane Jiraiya Cummings has not received enough coverage in reliable sources that are independent of Shane Jiraiya Cummings and Brimstone Press to develop an attributable article on the topic and the article should be deleted. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 01:57, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete due to lack of verifiable sources. Capitalistroadster 03:44, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletions. -- Capitalistroadster 03:44, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. (Pasted from the Brimstone Press AfD and Outcast44 talk page):

I created this and the other entries mentioned in the AfD banner. I'm an avid reader of Australian horror and on the weekend (3 days ago) I began a project to wikify the Australian horror writers and publishers I knew of. I used the Australian Horror Writers Association and Brimstone Press as my start points as they're the ones i'm most familiar with (like me, Brimstone is in Western Australia) and i've been expanding out from there. I've also been in contact with one of the writers Shane Jiraiya Cummings who gave me alot of advice and told me where to look for more sources. From my contributions, you'll see i've revised entries for writers like Rocky Wood (and his link on the books about Stephen King list) who doesn't appear to have any connection to Brimstone Press (although he's a Horror writers Association member). I've also edited entries for other Australian horror writers (from the Category:Australian horror writers) - Lee Battersby, Martin Livings, Kim Wilkins, Stephen Dedman etc and I am looking to add more this week - Jason Nahrung, Paul Haines, and a couple more i've heard about. Re: independent coverage - i've been uploading these entries with the sources that i've been able to find quickest: the online links, the Ditmar Award and Aurealis Award winners lists, the Australian horror writers Association pages, online interviews and news posts on HorrorScope and ABC Online. I thought these refs would be seen as independent (enough) coverage while I looked into more sources, although some of the stubs (like Marty Young) don't have many references - but they're stubs!. I'm looking at more sources offline too. For example, i have a non-fiction book called Australian Speculative fiction: A genre overview by Donna Maree Hanson which i've cited on Cummings' entry but haven't got around to adding to the others. My goal is to expand the Category:Australian horror writers and if other people think the entries i've made aren't notable enough, then fair enough, they should be deleted. If this is the case, most of the writers in the category might have to go. But these entries aren't spam. I just need more time to fill them out and add more references. I've only been at it 3 days! --Outcast44 14:06, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can see how it looks like a cross promotion for Brimstone Press but i've been linking to all linkable publishers I could find in the Australian horror writers bibliographies and it looks like Brimstone has published most of them at least once. Other publishers i've been linking are MirrorDanse Books, Ticonderoga Publications and Andromeda Spaceways Inflight Magazine. The stub articles I wrote don't have alot of references but you'll find every one of them has at least one reference or note that comes from a verifable third party . Obviously the references are not complete but i'm working on that! This really is a genuine attempt to build a referenced wiki of Australian horror, not spam!

A note on reliable, verifiable sources for this entry. I haven't added notes (yet!) and references cited include the author's website and other websites connected to Brimstone Press, but how can the following independent, verifable sources not be taken into account?:

Dawn, Gibson (April 9, 2007), "State eyes crackdown on elective caesareans". The West Australian.
Hanson, Donna Maree (2005). Australian Speculative Fiction: A Genre Overview. Murrumbateman: Australian Speculative Fiction.
Kemble, Gary (April 2006). "Horror: give it a name". ABC Online news (Articulate). Retrieved 9-9-2007.
Kemble, Gary (December 2006). "A new age for Australian horror". ABC Online news (Articulate). Retrieved 9-9-2007.
Peek, Ben (April 2005). "2005 Snapshot interview". Tabula Rasa website. Retrieved 9-9-2007.
Sizmore, Jason (May 2007). "Featured writer interview: Shane Jiraiya Cummings". Apex Online. Retrieved 9-9-2007.
Stuart, Kirsty (May 2007), "The Surgical Birth". Nova Magazine.

--Outcast44 15:18, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The references you list have little to no information that may be used in the article. For example, what material would you use in the article from this reference: Dawn, Gibson (April 9, 2007), "State eyes crackdown on elective caesareans". The West Australian? It makes no mention of Cummings. In fact, The West Australian has no mention of a Shane Cummings. The Wikipedia Cummings article makes no mention of caesareans and yet you cite the "State eyes crackdown on elective caesareans" article as one of the references in the Shane Jiraiya Cummings Wikipedia article. It seems as though you wrote a bunch of text for the article, listed a bunch of sources to give the appearance of the text being referenced, and are hoping for the best. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 16:42, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That reference in the West Australian did not mention Cummings by name but cited the report he wrote in Medical Forum magazine. It was one of three footnotes I had to add to the Journalism section at the bottom of the entry which specifically mentioned a caesarean story Cummings wrote. Had I had the time to add these notes rather than responding to numerous AfD discussion, the references would have been made clearer. However its a moot point because a newer edit has removed that section and reference. --Outcast44 15:30, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Looking at the references listed subject has 5 WP:RS articles listed over a 2 year period. Which easily meets the requirements for significant coverage per WP:N. Has also won a notable award, albeit in a minor category. It needs to be cited properly in the body of the text, but that's not a reason for an Afd.Horrorshowj 16:19, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Recently cleaned up entry with in-text citations and additional verifiable, independent references. Outcast44 15:29, 17 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Like Brimstone Press, I think Cumming's entry has sufficent notability to warrant inclusion in wikipedia. However the majority of text in the original article is nor referenced properly and the text is not neutral. I have edited the entry, but it could probably do with more Kathrynll 14:27, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.