Talk:Harry Yount

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Harry Yount has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. Review: June 3, 2013. (Reviewed version).

A fact from Harry Yount appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 17 December 2010, and was viewed approximately 11,900 times (disclaimer) (check views). The text of the entry was as follows: Did you know... that Harry Yount (pictured) killed 70 antelope in one day during a hunting competition, but was ashamed because "it went against his heart to kill so many innocent creatures just for the glory"? A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2010/December.

This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

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This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 16:39, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This article seems to have some factual errors, and relies on just one source. I am re-writing the article using William Supernaugh's well referenced article on Yount's life as the primary source, and using a variety of other sources as well. Cullen328 (talk) 20:01, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rewrite completed I added a total rewrite of the article on December 13, 2010. Cullen328 (talk)

Cullen328 (talk · contribs) asked me to take a look at this article in preparation for a GA nomination, so here are my observations:

Lead

• The lead to be expanded so as to better summarise the article. Probably needs to be about three times its current length, covering the main point(s) from each of the major sections.

Date and place of birth

• "He was the tenth child born to his father". Children are usually born to a mother. Do we not know who Harry's mother was?

Civil War military service

• The caption under the painting of the Battle of Pea Ridge says that Yount was captured during that battle, but the text to the right says he was captured in a skirmish before the battle.

Hunter and trapper

• "Yount also had some success as a prospector." What did he prospect for? Gold?

Gamekeeper in Yellowstone National Park

• We're told twice, in two separate quotations, that Yount recommended that no one man could patrol the park, which seems like unnecessary redundancy. I'd suggest dropping the "... and concluded that protection of the park 'cannot be done by any one man'" immediately before the first quotation.

First National Park Ranger

• "Stephen Mather, the first director of the National Park Service, wrote the forward to this book". Presumably this should be "foreword", not "forward"?

Homesteader and prospector

• "After he resigned from his job in Yellowstone, Yount lived for a while in a community called Uva in Laramie County, Wyoming." That seems unnecessarily prolix; why not just "lived for a while in Uva in Laramie County, Wyoming"?

• "He homesteaded in the area in 1887". Is there a convenient wikilink for "homesteading"? Those of us fortunate enough to live in God's own land may well have very little idea what homesteading means. Did he, for instance build a home in the area in 1887, having until then lived a tent?

• You really need to provide at least one citation for this section.

Malleus Fatuorum 15:41, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Malleus/Eric, thank you very much for your comments. It has taken me some time to do the work. I believe that I have made all the improvements that you suggested, and more, and accordingly have nominated this article for Good article. I also want to thank User:Rosiestep for a face to face review at an Edit-a-thon in San Francisco yesterday. Your input is also appreciated. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:23, 27 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Harry Yount/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Khazar2 (talk · contribs) 02:43, 2 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll be glad to take this review. Initial comments to follow in the next 1-3 days. Thanks in advance for your work on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 02:43, 2 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

On first pass, this appears to be an exceptionally well-constructed article. I made a few small tweaks; please feel free to revert any with which you disagree. -- Khazar2 (talk) 23:11, 2 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Prose is excellent; spotchecks show no copyright issues.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	I realize that this is contrary to the advice you got from another commenter, but the lead actually seems a touch long to me for the size of this article. It's within GA requirements, though, and I don't think it's necessary to change it.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
	2c. it contains no original research.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
	7. Overall assessment.	Pass as GA

In response to the request on my talk page, I'd like to offer the following comments on this article:

• Some sentences are a bit lengthy
• "Harry Yount's father, David Yount, was about 44 years old at the time of Harry's birth, and Harry was the couple's tenth child" - not covered by a reference
  • Added Supernaugh as a reference for this. He discusses it in a footnote. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:12, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• "These records also show that his legal name was Henry S. Yount. His lifelong nickname was "Harry", and his middle name is unknown" - ditto
  • Added Supernaugh as a reference for this. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:12, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• The para starting with "Although Yount's place of birth is uncertain" also needs one or more references
  • Added Supernaugh as the source for this. He is the only writer, to my knowledge, to discuss the contradictions in the early sources. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:12, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• "served in Company F of Phelps' Regiment of the Missouri Infantry. John Phelps, his commanding general, was an ardent abolitionist" - if Phelps was a regimental commander, he probably wouldn't have been a general. Do his views on abolition need to be in this article?
  • Because of the need to expand the Union Army rapidly and radically during the Civil War, general officer commissions were far more common than in normal conditions. One indicator is that we have 712 Wikipedia articles about Union Army generals during a four year war, compared to a total of about 2200 biographies of generals during the entire history of the U.S. Phelps was a career officer of the U.S. Army with combat service in the Mexican-American War who retired in 1859. It was common to offer such men a general's commission to induce them to return to the army during the nation's greatest crisis. Phelps became a brigadier general in 1861, shortly after returning to the army. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:12, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• • I mentioned his abolitionism because he was considered an extreme radical in favor of the rights of African-Americans during the time that Yount served under his command. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:12, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• There's also unreferenced material in the 'Guide for the Hayden Geological Survey' section
• The article hints at Yount becoming a renowned figure over the 1870s and 1880s, but never states this. For instance, why was he selected to be the gamekeeper of Yellowstone National Park and granted what seems a high salary?
  • I have not read anything that indicates he was a celebrity or a "renowned figure". He didn't write anything other than his government reports. He didn't do speaking tours or shooting exhibits or wild west shows. He climbed the ladder from Civil War soldier with several promotions, to supply wagon teamster in Plains Indian war territory, to working as a guide for the Department of the Interior during the Hayden mapping expeditions in the Rocky Mountains for seven years, to supplier of taxidermy specimens to the Smithsonian. All while working as a professional hunter in the off season. At that time, Supernaugh concludes he must have been well-known in the Department of the Interior bureaucracy. So, he had the qualifications, the skills, the intelligence, the discipline and the Civil War political connections to be considered the best man for the job. He had some write-ups in the popular press, but I do not think he was a celebrity.Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:27, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• "Stephen Mather, the first director of the National Park Service, wrote the foreword of the book." needs a reference. Also, is this relevant?
  • Wouldn't the book itself be the reference? The relevance, as I see it, is that the first two directors of the National Park Service joined in this book venture which praised Yount and thereby created his ongoing reputation within the NPS. So, he became a "mini celebrity" in the National Park community four years after his death. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:50, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• I'd suggest merging the 'Recognition as first National Park ranger' section with the previous section (one para sections are best avoided)
• "but his claim was sold in a sheriff's sale in 1892" - what does this mean (had he abandoned it, gone bankrupt, etc?)
• Can more be said about the last 40-odd years of Yount's life?
• Can anything more be said about Yount's legacy? Have historians, etc, commented on this? Does he have any kind of public profile, or is he little-known?
• Please provide specific page numbers for each citation which currently form part of references 3 and 4. Blocks of page numbers for multiple references make it difficult for readers to find the source for a fact.
• The sources all appear reliable, and the photos are all appropriately licenced and PD. Nick-D (talk) 00:55, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Nick-D. I will get to work on those items. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:24, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. Given that Yount fought in the Civil War and later supplied the US Army, this would be within the scope of the Military History Wikiproject's A-class review process if you'd like a further pre-FAC assessment. Nick-D (talk) 02:03, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

My thanks again to Nick-D for the detailed critique and Cassianto for words of encouragement. Thanks also to the editor who assisted so graciously and thoughtfully during the GA review, years ago, and who has offered other positive comments much more recently. I apologize for putting this project on the back burner for a while, but it would be nice to improve it to FA standards now. I have made some minor preliminary improvements. I have responded to most if not all of the comments in Nick-D's preliminary review. I will work more on that tomorrow. I would be very grateful for any constructive criticism, especially the easily actionable items, but I will certainly take major issues to heart. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:38, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Cullen328: - I'm not convinced that the link to John W. Phelps is correct. John W. Phelps didn't have anything to do with the Missouri regiment or Pea Ridge, while John S. Phelps seems to be who should be referred to here. Hog Farm _Talk 18:45, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Hog Farm. You are right and I have made the correction. Thank you. Cullen328 (talk) 18:54, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cullen, I also suspect that John S. Phelps was his commanding general may be better phrased as John S. Phelps was his commanding officer - Shea & Hess's Pea Ridge: Civil War Campaign in the West refers to Phelps as a colonel at the time of Pea Ridge. Hog Farm _Talk 23:29, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]