Talk:Andre Agassi: Difference between revisions

	Andre Agassi is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.
Article milestones Date Process Result April 12, 2007 Featured article candidate Not promoted

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2003-2009 2009-2011

Andre Agassi is also an Iranian citizen since his father is an Iranian citizen. It is not possible to renounce the Iranian citizenship. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:CB:DF07:E000:94D8:C51D:529C:64CA (talk) 20:37, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Current photo, 2006

Suggested replacement, 1999

Hmmm, Luk, do you really think there is a significant difference between a photo being 12 years old and 19 years old? We can barely tell it's Agassi in the 2006 photo, let alone how recent the photo is :D Surtsicna (talk) 00:06, 9 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I googled the sources for "greatest returner tennis" & many (if not most) of them bring up Djokovic (& sometimes Murray) in the equation. It seems less people would now consider Agassi the best ('one of the best' though is another story). According to some of the stats, he is actually ranked relatively low in that aspect: https://www.atptour.com/en/stats/leaderboard?boardType=return&timeFrame=Career&surface=all&versusRank=all&formerNo1=false https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/statsLeaders. Only in the 2nd serve returns is he the highest, so if we're going to keep this, it'd have to be changed to "one of the greatest" or "greatest 2nd serve returner" at best...Barely made one (talk) 04:22, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That happens to all players over time. Djokovic will soon be relegated to ho hum also. It's sad. As for the subjective term of goat, it should not be in these articles at all. Both Agassi and Djokovic articles should simply say they are considered great returners or at most among the greatest of returners. Nothing more. Fyunck(click) (talk) 05:33, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jimmie Conners did not ever win the French Open which is played on a clay surface. However, Jimmie Conners played and won the US Open on grass, the US Open on clay, and the US Open on hard court surfaces. 2600:100D:B019:3A1B:C966:580D:572D:13E5 (talk) 13:59, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In Andre's father's book, he discusses his family history and states both sides of his family are Armenian. Neither Andre or Emmanuel make any mention of being Assyrian in either of their respective biographies. This appears to be a case of false information being forked by other sources, which mistakenly believe it to be true. Emmanuel Agassi apparently could speak Assyrian and attended some Assyrian-American cultural events, which may be the origin of the factoid. But he makes it clear his father was an Armenian from Kiev and his mother was an Armenian from somewhere in Ottoman Armenia. KhndzorUtogh (talk) 22:57, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Fyunck(click), could you let me know which of the changes I made to the table in this article are of concern to you? Was it the addition of row and column scopes? The addition of a caption? Making the opponent column sort correctly by player name? Thanks. Bsherr (talk) 18:50, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Those tables have longstanding consensus per guidelines at Wikiproject Tennis. There is consistency for countless thousands of tables. If coding can be updated without changing appearance it's fine, but other wise no. Win/Loss is standard, with no centering. The colors are standardized. The event should not be centered and it is never bolded per wikipedia standards of over-bolding. Also, when you have a section header that says the same thing, a caption in this instance is overkill. The help with player sorting was fine. The changes you made would need to go through months of vetting at Tennis Project. You are welcome to bring it up there to change thousands of articles. Fyunck(click) (talk) 22:27, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are you familiar with Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility#Tables? Bsherr (talk) 14:33, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely. But using scope and changing headers does not have to change the appearance of the table. We do it all the time at tennis project. There is also consistency among 1000s of other tables, or poor readability for sighted users. We look at all of that. I said, if you change the coding to match accessibility and it looks the same, we have no issues. If you change the look there is a problem. Look at current tennis players like Djokovic or Swiatek. Fyunck(click) (talk) 17:47, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And you are familiar with Wikipedia:Catalogue of CSS classes/Wikitable, right? Bsherr (talk) 18:22, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are you familiar with Wikipedia:Consistency. Are you familiar with Wikipedia:Consensus? Are you familiar with Wikipedia:WikiProject Tennis/Article guidelines? Are you familiar with MOS:NOBOLD? Are you familiar with Wikipedia:Advanced table formatting? We could do this till the cows come home. That chart's appearance has longstanding consensus and cannot be changed without extensive discussions. Coding can change but keep the look the same. I can't be clearer than that. You realize that row and column scopes are not required, right? We have had screen readers checks on most of our tables and they do great. Is it fine to use them for even better accessibility... sure. Knock yourself out. No problem with that as this is an older table for a long-retired player that hasn't gone through every update. But the visual appearance should be pretty much identical with regard to links, alignment, bolding, wording, colors, etc... Fyunck(click) (talk) 20:15, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not trying to offend you. I am grateful you share the purpose, or at least will not impede, making Wikipedia accessible. I'm asking questions about your familiarity with the guidelines because what you are saying, and characterizing as some obvious consensus, is directly contradictory to the guidelines. You say you don't want this table to have a caption, but the Manual of Style requires all tables to have captions ("Data tables should always include a caption."), or they aren't accessible. You say you don't want the row headers to be bold and centered because "it is never bolded per Wikipedia standards of over-bolding", but the default style of the wikitable class is that all table headers are bolded and centered "Row headers are formatted by default as bold, centered and with a darker background. This is the common behavior across the Internet, and the default rendering in most browsers.") So I am asking these questions to understand whether perhaps you are unfamilar with the Manual of Style and table classes, or whether you have some disagreement with the projectwide consensus about these things, or whether there is something somehow unique about tennis that requires its tables to deviate from the Manual of Style. I'm asking about your familiarity with table classes, because you seem to suggest that I am the one changing the styling of this table, but I am not; I don't care what color it is or whether it is bold or roman, I am just trying to make it accessible. But when I change a cell to a row header (change a "|" to a "!"), it is automatically bolded and centered. That is the default style of a wikitable. I didn't code this table as a wikitable, that's how I found it. If you don't like it as a wikitable, do you want to change the table class? That's what I don't understand. I am happy to have a wider conversation about accessibility at the tennis WikiProject page, but I would like to better understand you. --Bsherr (talk) 18:52, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]