Talk:Rutka Laskier

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A fact from Rutka Laskier appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 8 June 2007. A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2007/June.

Polish Wikipedia says that she was born in Gdansk. What is the source for this? Badagnani 17:37, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Sorry I don't speak english. Ifo comes from the end of the book in separation “From Rutka to Ruta” (Polish edition of the diary of Rutka Laskier). Rutka, she born in the Gdańsk, after family put over to the parents city (Będzin). Mateusz Opasiński 21:44, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The yahoo.com link will only remain valid for about a month or so... AnonMoos 00:43, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I do not think the Free City of Danzig was 'a German enclave' by any stretch. It was neither German, nor Polish. Otherwise it would not be referred to as 'Free'.128.146.238.235 17:57, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Our own article says it was 90% German. That sounds like a "German enclave," doesn't it? Badagnani 18:03, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by 'our own'? And what do you mean by 90%? In terms of ethnicity? If so, it does not matter. Legally, the City was neither a part of Poland, nor Germany. Look up the definition of 'enclave' and change the text accordingly. Otherwise, you are re-writing history.

"Our own article" means "the English-language Wikipedia's article" (about the Free City of Danzig). It says 90% of that city were German speakers. Badagnani 18:33, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've just changed the wording to: "Laskier was born in the Free City of Danzig (now Gdańsk), then a predominantly German-speaking autonomous city-state in northern Poland." Is that okay? Badagnani 18:36, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is not OK, the Free City was not in northern Poland. It was not part of Poland at all. And I would drop the bit about what language people spoke there. It is irrelevant here.

BTW, the woman's name is 'Stanisława Sapińska' not 'Stanisławą Sapińską'. The latter is the causative case of the former (with the extra diacritics used in Polish only). It needs to be changed throughout the English text.

What does it mean "causative case"? Badagnani 18:51, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

'Causative' means by whom an action was performed. In English, say, the name Badagnani retains the same form irrespective of what role it plays in a sentence (by Badagnani, with Badagnani, about Badagnani, for Badagnani). It is not the case in Polish (Badagnani, Badagnaniego, Badagnaniemu, etc.). You must have copied the form 'Stanisławą Sapińską' from the Polish wiki. Her proper name is 'Stanisława Sapińska' and, because in English it remains the same in any santence, this form should be used throughout.

That's helpful. The Slavic languages have a different logic about this. The closest thing we have in English would be "Badagnani's" to show possession. Badagnani 19:28, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

At least people should know where it is. It wasn't part of Poland, but it was inside northern Poland. That just tells readers where it was, geographically. "North-central Europe" is maybe not specific enough. Badagnani 18:53, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do people generally know where Gdansk is? If not, maybe 'the Free City of Danzig (now Gdansk, Poland)'

I'm from the U.S. and am very good at geography, but even I don't know what regions of Poland any of the major cities are (Krakow, Warsaw, Katowice, etc.). I think most North Americans don't know either. The reason I added "northern Poland" is because we already said that Bedzin is in southern Poland, so it can show that the family's move was not a close one, but a long one. Badagnani 19:18, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, but Bedzin, unlike the Free City, WAS (an is) a part of Poland. If you want to show that a move was a long one why not 'the Free City of Danzig (now Gdansk, northern Poland)'. Linking the Free City to Poland would be, at least, confusing.

I made a change in the text; see what you think. Your expertise and input is greatly appreciated. Badagnani 19:43, 8 June 2007 (UTC) I think it's OK now.[reply]

One more thing... 'Młynarskiej Laskier-Kleinberg and Company'... 'Młynarskiej' is an adjective derived from the noun 'Młyn' (eng. a mill). It is not a person's name. So maybe, 'Laskier-Kleinberg Mill Company'?

Yes, but isn't Młynarskiej part of the name of the company, since it's capitalized? Badagnani 19:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC) No, it is not (who capitalized it anyway?). The corresponding entry in the Polish Wiki says 'firmy mlynarskiej' which is not a proper name (it simply means 'a mill company'). But I see where the problem is... the mill company was owned by Laskier, Kleinberg, and some other guys (hence 'and Company'). 'Lakier-Kleinberg and Co. Mill Company' looks and sounds awfull. Any idea how to change it? 'Lakier-Kleinberg and Co. Mill Consortium'? BTW the company OWNED the grist mill (among other things, I guess). So, the company and the mill were not one and the same thing.[reply]

It must have been my mistake. I'll try to fix it. Badagnani 20:09, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Sapińska offered to hide the diary in her house's basement, under the double flooring in a staircase, so that people would be able to know what had happened to the Jewish people of Będzin" I know exactly what you meant to convey, but in the present form it looks odd - if you hide something, how does it make other people know/learn about it? Besides, is 'house's basement' or 'the basement of her house' better?