All The Books You've Never Read discussion

Don't you just think Hary's world is absolutely ah0mazingg?? Well on this topic, let your mind run free. Who knows? J.K. Rowling could look at this any minute and use some of your ideas!! Have Funn!

i love harry potter the books

Have you seen any of the movies?

all of the movies exept for the last one not the haft blood prens cuz i've seen that one but the uther one

I think they did a pretty good job with the movies. My favoite part is when the bus squeezes inbetween the other two. And luv the talk shrunken head. Too funny.

same here. they make me laugh all the time..

Overall, I like the movies too: I especially love HBP, PoA, and OotP, I think SS and CoS are okay, but I'm not too fond of GoF. I can't wait for DH part I and II.

Oh wow... That was a bit too cryptic for me. LOL!

Not for me!! I understood all of that!! I love cryptic people!!! :)

Ah, we're into the hardcore codes. Here's a handy reference cheat sheet (remember they all start with Harry Potter and the...):

SS = Sorcerer's Stone (book 1)
Cos = Chamber of Secrets (book 2)
PoA = Prisoner of Azkaban (book 3)
GoF = Goblet of Fire (book 4)
OotP = Order of the Phoenix (book 5)
HBP = Half Blood Prince (book 6)
DH = Deathly Hallows (book 7)
-Parts I and II correspond to the fact that the book is split into two movies.

Hope that helps. :)

LOL, Hardcore. I should of been able to figure that out. Oh well, I guess I'll save the thinking for school. I didn't like the Prisoner of Azkaban, the last part was boring since it was pretty much a repeat of what you just watched.

Jordan = Have you read any of the new James Potter books?

HAHA JORDAN!! Thanks for the code, but only a few of us needed it. LOL, n/o Elyssa. (n/o = no offense)

I admit it went over my head. But I then again I couldn't tell you the correct order of the books. Oops.

harry potter

Before everyone starts throwing stones at me I do plan on picking up a Potter book next month. It is def on my list.

Which one? And no one is going to throw stones at you.

Yet, anyways. I think OotP. Ha, got the hand of this *I did peek at the cheat sheet above* No I didn't.

Did you have to read/watch The Lottery yet?

my sis has a lot of harry potter books

The lottery? What's that?

It is a short story that I'm sure you will have to read at some time. It is about a small town that gathers around to take turns pulling out slips of paper out of the box. The person who pulls out the paper with the black dot on it gets stoned to death.

Oh, I read that for school a few years ago. The idea is disturbing.

are yall eggroing me. lol

The idea is disturbing but the idea is still done today. Humans are sick people.

Hey Zia. How was school??

Elyssa wrote: "Jordan = Have you read any of the new James Potter books? "

Yeah. They were fanfiction. They were ok, but not nearly as enjoyable as J.K Rowling's. Those were the ones with Cedric, yes?

Rowlings had Cedric killed off in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. I'm weary of spending my time on the fanfiction. Also because of that one fact I've heard many various reviews, including why is was so horrible or great. Sometimes I think many just want the world to continue.

Yeah. I think the James Potter one was the one with Cedric as a ghost (I think). Fanfiction. Meh.

Ha Ha... So now he is bringing back the dead.

Cedric as a ghost? Hmm...That's not making me feel as though I really want to read fanfiction now, though I guess it may not be as bad as I think. (Sorry, about the abbreviations above - I'm so used to Harry Potter groups/sites.)

It's okay. Not too sure how I feel about Cedric being a ghost either. I still want to read the James Potter books though.

Pandy, No prob. I'm lacking and it is nice to learn something new. I'd check into the James Potter books as well. They are not at the library yet. I have plenty of other books to read.

Same here, the talk of other books can be sometimes seriously nauseating.

LOL... We try to read too much. Shove down another book and lets see where that leaves you. Better to be literate than illiterate.

True, very, very true. Being able to read can sometimes be soothing as well.

hi

❤ ☠ Elyssa ☠ ❤ wrote: "LOL... We try to read too much. Shove down another book and lets see where that leaves you. Better to be literate than illiterate. "

my mom said i am not allowed to read on weekdays. unless i have a break at dance. on weekends cant read more than 3 hours a day... she is killing me i am trying to learn and read and junk and she just yells at me :/ haha

aww, you're so unfortunate. I can read as long as I want, I just have to study too in between :) but sometimes my mom got mad at me too when I read too much. But she never ban me from reading.

haha my parents tried to threaten me with no more reading last year when i stayed up till 3 in the morning reading everynight and got crabby in the day cause of it. But ultimately they say that its my choice how much I read and if my grades go in the toilet cuz of it its my fault and i should learn to control my reading mania... :)

Ashok wrote: "... YES!!!!!! Finally i have met some Hp hard core fans... err may i lay my propaganda on thee?? Brilliant ^.^

Err i think theres a problem in the books...in 4 remember that trial?? When Barty c..."

The main problem with the first instance that you mentioned is that Fudge doesn't want to listen – he doesn’t want to acknowledge the truth because the Ministry does not want to face the problem of Voldemort's return. It's not a matter of Harry and Dumbledore lacking proof. Fudge is too fond of the power and security he's gained over the last few years to confront a serious crisis in the wizarding world. Even if they had tried, Harry and Dumbledore would not have been able to force Fudge to view memories confirming Voldemort's return. Fudge would have just claimed that the memories had been fabricated (in HBP we learn that this is possible). Fudge at this point is beyond reason. Even the proof of Voldemort's return shoved right under his nose - Snape's Dark Mark - does not convince him. It's highly unlikely that Crouch's testimony (Veritaserum or not) would have convinced him either. It takes nothing short of seeing Voldemort with his own eyes for him to accept the truth.

During Harry's trial, Umbridge doesn't claim that he imagined seeing the Dementors - she (and Fudge) simply portray him as a lying, attention seeking brat with no credibility. Again, they don't want to hear anything that doesn't suit them. Fudge and Umbridge are playing by their own rules - they don't want Harry to have a fair trial. Fudge only wants to convict him, so under no circumstances is he going to spend time trying to confirm if Harry is being truthful. (Remember how reluctant he is to even listen to Harry's witness (Mrs. Figg)). The most important thing to keep in mind during Harry's trial, however, is that Umbridge herself ordered the Dementor attack on him! She knows the truth, but she'll do everything in her power to make sure that it isn't revealed. The other members of the Wizengamot don't have the authority to suggest that they examine Harry's memories. And for a matter as small as underage wizardry, I don't think any of them would have been inclined to.

(Sorry – a pretty long response coming up)

Questioning a witness is something that's normally done in a court of law. Using a Pensieve, I'd say, is quite different. Firstly, Dumbledore is unpopular with almost everyone, not just Fudge and Umbridge. He, powerful wizard though he is, could not have forced Fudge or any of the others (without magic, of course) to allow the use of a Pensieve because, as I think we can assume, it isn't normal Ministry procedure (more on this later). (Fudge is only forced to allow Mrs. Figg to be brought in as a witness because Dumbledore "reminds" him of the rights of the accused under the Department of Magical Law Enforcement's Wizengamot Charter of Rights.) I'm not sure what you meant when you said that Dumbledore could examine Harry's memories in front of the whole Wizengamot. How would this work? The Wizengamot would need to see Harry's whole memory (including the surroundings and Dementors etc.) and the only way this seems possible is to physically enter the Pensieve. Watching Dumbledore view Harry’s memory would tell them nothing. (Dumbledore does sometimes use the Pensive to show a memory of a single figure speaking, but this wouldn't work in this case because the Dementors are important to see.) I think the idea that all the members of the Wizengamot would be lining up to enter Harry's memory is very unrealistic. How long would it take for them to all enter the memory? Wouldn't the memory start "playing" before they could all get inside the Pensieve? This is all hypothetically speaking though, since I don't think it would have ever been possible for Dumbledore to bring in a Pensieve (not that he needed one).

I don't think the idea that Harry's memory could have been used to convince the wizarding community that Voldemort had returned is entirely logical. To begin with, we have the same problem of being unable to force people to do something without using magic, especially something that involves a good bit of initiative, such as entering a Pensieve. Most people in the wizarding world don't want to believe that Voldemort is back, so actively forcing them to see something would not make them more inclined to believe Dumbledore and Harry, who are portrayed as crazy trouble-makers by the government. It's also unrealistic to assume that it would be possible to spread the word with a single memory, even if people were willing to listen. Throughout the series, we have only seen one Pensieve - Dumbledore's. It seems to be a very powerful magical object, and like the Deluminator may be of Dumbledore's own invention. It may be the only one in existence (its existence may not even be known to the Ministry!) It wouldn't be possible for the Order of the Phoenix to carry one basin around, trying to get hundreds or thousands of people to stick their heads in. It would even look a little ridiculous if they set it up in a specific location for so many people to use. It just doesn't make sense that the word could be spread this way. Also, I don’t know how many people, even those who would support Harry, would want to “see” Voldemort. (I can see Fudge pointing to this as an effort by Dumbledore to terrify the population into believing him.) I think people would view the use of the Pensieve as confirmation of Dumbledore's craziness. Harry's sincere account in the Quibbler is actually a much more effective way of telling his story and bringing people to his side. Firstly, it spreads the story widely. Secondly, it allows people to come to their own conclusions. They aren't forced to read the article (as they would have been forced to view a memory), but they accept it when they do read it because it explains holes in the Ministry's account. The article is released at the perfect time - right after the Azkaban break out.

Now, let’s go back to the question about why the Pensieve isn’t used in general by the Wizengamot. Number of Pensieves available aside, I don’t think viewing memories is as fool-proof a way to learn the truth as one might expect. As you said, you can alter and implant memories (although, Voldemort does not simply implant a memory into Morfin – he also has to alter and add to it). Also, because memories in the Pensieve are viewed from a third-person point of view, the perspective of the viewer plays a big role in how the memory is interpreted – in other words, appearances matter. Even if it isn’t possible to create a memory from scratch, it’s not a very big step from altering a certain memory to look like a very different memory. Slughorn’s memory is altered sloppily, but Dumbledore’s words seem to indicate that it can be done carefully. Wizards could alter certain memories to look like completely different memories. For example, maybe Dumbledore could have used a memory of Harry in an alley-way and added different memories of Dementors to it to make it look like one smooth memory of a Dementor attack when viewed by others. Dumbledore would never need to or want to do this of course – I’m just saying that memories are not wholly reliable. One’s point of view could also be altered by what portion of a memory is seen. Other methods such as Legilimency and the use of Veritaserum also would not be fool-proof against skilled wizards. I think in all the cases you’ve mentioned, Fudge, the Ministry, or the general population could have always pointed to the unreliability of the Pensieve and memories in revealing the truth. After all, none of them wanted to believe Voldemort had come back anyway, and those who would didn’t need elaborate methods to convince them.

(Your quotes are in italics.)

"...the comment of not having enough Pensieves was a tad out of line. Snape has a pensive as well."

I really don't think so. I still think that the availability of a Pensieve is a major issue. Snape does not have a Pensieve. He borrows Dumbledore's, which Harry recognizes at once. (I don't think you can try to say that Harry is mistaken, since we do have to consider the author's intentions. It would be pointless to say that Harry recognizes the Pensieve as Dumbledore's if it wasn't his). Pensieves (if the plural can even be used, which I doubt) are not normal household objects. The Weasleys certainly don't have one. It is true that they are poor, but we don't see rich families like the Malfoys with Pensieves either. In OotP, at the Ministry, Lucius makes a comment about Voldemort expecting that Harry would come after the prophecy to hear the exact wording. This indicates that neither Lucius, nor Voldemort (whose magical knowledge is rivaled by none but Dumbledore!) are aware that Harry could hear the exact wording through Dumbledore's memory using a Pensieve. Based on Dumbledore's comments to Harry in GoF, the Pensieve seems to be a very personal object Dumbledore created. He describes how it helps him organize his thoughts and spot patterns. By personal, I don't mean that he feels that he should be the only one to use it (he obviously doesn't, as he lets Snape borrow it and takes Harry with him into several memories) - I just mean that it is mainly a useful tool for himself.

“No if we got enough Pensieves to distribute one per each Wizengamot member and made copies of Harry's memory, They could view it at their leisure.”

I don't really see how you can so casually say that Pensieves can be widely distributed. The Pensive we see is a very special object involving complex magic. I think that it's impossible to mass produce. It's "essence" simply couldn't be duplicated. At Gringotts in DH we see treasure multiplying to impede thieves, yet these duplicated objects are not the same as the real treasure. The Pensieve is even more magical than the contents of the Lestrange's vault; I don't think it could retain its special properties, even if many stone basins were produced.

I'm not sure how making copies of memories would work. We don't have much information from the books on this. It may be possible, since we have seen memories being inserted and tampered with, but I still find it hard to believe that it could be easily done (to distribute widely, I mean). An additional copy of a memory would not be useful without a Pensieve, though.

“The officals could also check the memory for magical tamperment”

They could (although the Ministry isn't portrayed in a very positive light regarding its ability to carry out justice), but based on the power of the witch or wizard tampering with a memory, I don't know if they'd always find traces. Voldemort, Dumbledore, and maybe even some others such as Snape, could manage to avoid being detected, I think. Not all ministry workers are incompetent, but even reasonably powerful ones could be hoodwinked. We don't know if any traces could have been detected in Morfin's memory. The Ministry never directly examined it because Morfin confessed. Dumbledore only finds the true memory underneath using skilled Legilimency. He implies that it might have been uncovered if the Ministry had also employed Legilimency, but emphasizes its difficulty. I don't think Ministry wizards would be able to constantly pore over memories. They definitely would not have the time to do this for every case. Some of the cases - such as Morfin's where there was a clear confession – would be ignored. There isn't really a good way for them to decide which ones are the most important. I think it is very likely that Aurors do use Legilimency and Veritaserum sometimes, problems aside (there are antidotes to Veritaserum, by the way), but using actual memories would be even more difficult. In the first two methods the interrogator has the most control. A person has to willingly give up his/her memory (at least by his/her hand). It would still be easy to deceive the law by providing only certain sections of a memory (these wouldn't be faked and wouldn't leave traces).

About your point that people wouldn't want to see this.. what would moody say? You need to know what your up against!”

This doesn't really refute my point. It doesn't matter what Moody or anyone else says. You're talking about the general population here - the general population which refuses to believe that Voldemort is back, in the face of all evidence, because it's so terrified by him. The ones who would see the memory are the ones who don't need to, since they don't let their fear prevent them from seeing what's right in front of them. So unless you think that people should be forced to see it - which we've decided isn't possible, I think - the memory wouldn't be seen by many at all. Again, this is all hypothetical, because there aren't 1000s of Pensieves or copies of the memory!

“Err the point about Dumbledore trying to scare people into believing him. I mean doesn't Fudge already suspect that? “

Very true, however, Fudge could use the memory to proclaim that Dumbledore was openly trying to overthrow him. (He comes close when the DA is caught, but, ends up completely humiliated before it can happen). He would definitely be able to turn the public against Dumbledore even more - the idea of "showing" people Voldemort would scare them out of their minds.

“Hmmm i gues they could have messed with the memory. But i really think that there would be a strength in numbers. I mean if we get Snapes, Dumbledore's, Harry's, and Mcgonagals recollection of Barty crouches Memory and Snape's and Harries memories (we could possibly capture Luscous Malfoy,Mr. Nutt,Mr. Goyle and get their memories too) we would have a solid case i think.”

This all sounds very elaborate. (A magazine article gets the job done, and leaves time for something else!) Anyway, I think we're coming back to the same points again - the issue with the number of Pensieves and memories etc. Also, how do you propose to capture the Death Eaters? As you said they're respected member in of the community. I assume that you mean that the Order would have to deal with them (certainly not the Ministry!). Any kidnapping attempts would land the Order (the people in it, I should say, since the society’s existence is secret) in jail, only making them seem crazier in people’s eyes. Undetected attacks on rich, somewhat powerful, wizards wouldn’t be easy at all. Remember, during OotP some of the Order are working undercover – it would be important for them to avoid being associated with any criminal activity, lest they end up in Azkaban like Sturgis Podmore.

(Thanks for the compliment on the spelling – the truth is I can’t spell at all. I just look up words I don’t know how to spell. And now I really need to shut up. :) )

So I know Y'all ^ are hardcore disscussion, but whose ready for HPDHp1!!!I know i am! Have any of you seen it?

I AM! OF COURSE< I AM GOING TO SEE IT TMR :).

HEY ME TOO! I WILL PROBABLY SEE YOU TOMMORROW!!!!! MAYBE ;)

LOL, did your mom buy your "not sick" act??

Thanks, Ashok. It was nice having a discussion with you.

Edit: Hmmm...Ashok's comments seem to have disappeared. Ah well; now it looks like I had a discussion with myself. :D

I really like the harry potter series because I think J.K Rowling created amazing characters and I just love the history between voldemort and harry