The History Book Club discussion

Everything British will be discussed in this folder dedicated to the British Isles. This folder will have threads dedicated to people, places and things which make up British History.

Some topics which will have their own threads will be some of the more formidable clashes, confrontations and wars that Britain was involved in, the British monarchy, its statesmen and women, prime ministers, European/British royalty, various time periods in English History like the Tudors or the Victorian period. We can also discuss some of the fascinating dynasties (Plantagenets, Norman, Lancaster, York, Tudor, Stuart, Hanover, Windsor).

The sky is the limit. If it is British, this is the folder.

MAKE SURE TO ALWAYS SELECT VIEW ALL SO THAT YOU CAN SEE ALL OF THE BRITISH INTEREST AREAS AND TOPICS; OTHERWISE YOU ONLY SEE LISTED THE LAST FIVE WHICH HAD POSTINGS.

This is a British History Timeline:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/...

This is a great resource for historic figures (not just British) - BBC Source

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic...

This posted was moved by me for Bill:

Hi there...first post here...looking at starting my inquiry into British History with this one...comments?

Thanks,
Bill

(no cover) Prehistoric Britain by Timothy Darvill

Here is a new and different account of the British Empire:



by Richard Gott
Description:
This revelatory new history punctures the widely held belief that the British Empire was an imaginative and civilizing enterprise. Instead, BRITAIN'S EMPIRE reveals a history of systemic repression and almost perpetual violence, showing how British rule was imposed as a military operation and maintained as a military dictatorship. For colonized peoples, the experience was a horrific one, of slavery, famine, battle and extermination. Yet, as Richard Gott shows, the Empire's oppressed peoples did not go quietly into this good night. Wherever Britain tried to plant its flag, it met with opposition. From Ireland to India, from the American colonies to Australia, Gott traces the rebellions and resistance of subject peoples whose all-but-forgotten stories are excluded from traditional accounts of empire. He shows, too, how the British Empire provided a blue print for the annihilation of peoples in twentieth-century Europe, and argues that its leaders must rank alongside the dictators of the twentieth century as authors of crimes against humanity on an infamous scale.

Wow, AR......I am not familiar with this book but it certainly is a different take on Empire building. Dare I say it........it goes on the TBR list.

Richard Gott

Hi Jill, I have ordered a copy as it does offer a different perspective of the British Empire and it sounds pretty interesting.

If your bookseller works on commission, he/she must be doing very well!

I'm trying to support the international book publishing industry :)

by George MacDonald Fraser .

The exciting and often violent saga of the border outlaws who terrorized the Anglo-Scottish border in the time of the Tudor(England) and Stuart(Scotland) monarchies.. Both English and Scottish, these border raiders were often indulged by the governments of their distant monarchs. This book describes how the March Wardens fought against the reivers and brought them to heel.

Yes.. interesting times... I wish to write again on this subject, but short answer is that English/Scottish probably meant damn all to most people. They knew their bishop; nationalism and such modern concepts did not apply - either side of the border.

I agree totally, Harvey. For the Scots, the clan was really the tie that bound and they could not care less about who was in power at the time. This is the only book with which I am familiar on this topic but maybe you have other recommendations.

by George MacDonald Fraser

To which book are you referring, Foxessa? In order to make connections with books already mentioned or to new citations, don't forget to add the book cover, author link, and photo, if available. Thanks.

Jill wrote: "I agree totally, Harvey. For the Scots, the clan was really the tie that bound and they could not care less about who was in power at the time. This is the only book with which I am familiar on thi..."

My introduction to Scottish history was by Magnus Magnusson. A thoroughly good read and was an eye-opener on the bizarre fact that in England we know almost nothing about Scottish history, save the times the English and Scots have gone to war and of course the drama of Mary, Queen of ScotsMary Queen of Scots by . But yes Jill, apart from various territorial ambitions, the idea of 'nation-building' or national identity is a distorting lens that we (nowadays) think in terms of but was not an issue for most people until relatively recently. Religion, clan or Duke were more immediately important than King, Queen or nation.

Hi Harvey, I'm glad you mentioned "Mary Queen of Scots" by Antonia Fraser, I loved that book and think it was one of the best books that I had read on Scottish history.

by Antonia Fraser

Another great book that I really enjoyed and read whilst travelling through Scotland was; "Culloden" by John Prebble.

by John Prebble

Another book of his that I have but am yet to read covering Scottish history is:

by John Prebble

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Another great book that I really enjoyed and read whilst travelling through Scotland was; "Culloden" by John Prebble.

by ...


by is an excellent read, read it quite some time back, but thanks for reminding me.

by is a book I had meant to get, but did not get around to it.
Should be back in Blighty end of the month so time to stock up.... :)

Thanks, guys for the recommendations. I have read:
by Antonia Fraser
by John Prebble

but will look for the others that you mentioned.

Another one of interest is:
by Carolly Erickson

For those of you interested in the War of the Roses between the houses of York and Lancaster which brought about the rise of the Tudor dynasty, let me recommend:
by Desmond Seward who has written much about British history.

The discovery by Englishman Howard Carter, of the tomb of King Tut-An-Khamun in 1922 was an event that caught the attention of the world. Carter, whose career was unremarkable until this event, became the center of controversy and this book tells how his life was changed by greed, fame and lost fortune. This recommendation may also belong on another thread but it is a part of British history that still resonates.

by Daniel Meyerson

Great adds Jill, thank you.

by John Sadler(no photo)

In 1692 in the aftermath of the Glorious Revolution and the Jacobite uprising, British Redcoats fell upon their MacDonald hosts, the inhabitants of Glencoe. Defenseless men, women, and children were murdered and the Massacre of Glencoe still resonates through the history of the Scottish Highlands. This book re-investigates the event and offers a new view of the "why" of this infamous deed.

Thanks for those terrific updates.

Jill I need some information from you pronto; please check your PMs. Thanks.

I have read a number of books on London - its history as a city and its place in British history enthrals me - and this is a new one that has caught my eye:

by John Marriott

Description
From Jewish clothing merchants to Bangladeshi curry houses, ancient docks to the 2012 Olympics, the area east of the City has always played a crucial role in London's history. The East End, as it has been known, was the home to Shakespeare's first theatre and to the early stirrings of a mass labour movement; it has also traditionally been seen as a place of darkness and despair, where Jack the Ripper committed his gruesome murders, and cholera and poverty stalked the Victorian streets. In this beautifully illustrated history of this iconic district, John Marriott draws on 25 years of research into the subject to present an authoritative and endlessly fascinating account. With the aid of copious maps, archive prints and photographs, and the words of East Londoners from 17th-century silk-weavers to Cockneys during the Blitz, he explores the relationship between the East End and the rest of London, and challenges many of the myths which surround the area.

Look like a good one, Geevee. Will look for it as the East End is a fascinating part of London.

by John Marriott

Here is something a little different. This book tells the history of "Bedlam", or more correctly Bethlehem Hospital. Founded in 1247 it is the oldest psychiatric hospital in the world and some terrible things happened there as "madness" was misunderstood. Not a pretty picture but a part of British history.

by Catharine Arnold(no photo)

Jill wrote: "Here is something a little different. This book tells the history of "Bedlam", or more correctly Bethlehem Hospital. Founded in 1247 it is the oldest psychiatric hospital in the world and some terr..."

This is on my TBR Jill and it certainly looks interesting. I read this by her which I found good too

by Catharine Arnold

Sounds strange but interesting, Geevee. Does it cover those buried at the Abbey and St. Paul's?....or is it more about private burial grounds?

Jill wrote: "Sounds strange but interesting, Geevee. Does it cover those buried at the Abbey and St. Paul's?....or is it more about private burial grounds?"

Jill it does these two plus other churches, plague pits, the first crematoria and the big London cemeteries - the last two part of the books major coverage on Victorian times.

Your recommendation hooked me on this book and will have to add it to the TBR!!

byCatharine Arnold

For those who enjoy British military history here is a new book due out soon that may interest you and it's written by a very good author:

by Saul David
Description:
The British soldier," wrote a Prussian officer who served with Wellington, "is vigorous, well fed, by nature highly brave and intrepid, trained to the most vigorous discipline, and admirably well armed... These circumstances explain how this army ... has never yet been defeated in the field."

From the Restoration of Charles II in 1660 to the Downfall of Napoleon in 1815, Britain won a series of major wars against France that enabled her to lay the foundations of a global empire. By Waterloo, she was the paramount maritime and industrial power in the world, and would remain so for much of the nineteenth century.

This is the story of that extraordinary century and a half of martial success and the people who made it possible: the soldier-kings William III and the first two Georges; the generals Marlborough, Wolfe, Moore and Wellington; and the ordinary British redcoats who - despite harsh service conditions that included low pay, poor housing, inadequate food and brutal discipline - rarely let their commanders down in battles as far afield as Blenheim, Plassey, Quebec and Waterloo.

by Saul David
I have read a couple of his books noted below so will be looking for this one. Thanks for the recommendation

Saul David

Hi Jill,

He writes a pretty good story eh! I still have his book on the Zulu Wars to read but have enjoyed all his other military accounts.

by Saul David

Thanks Aussie Rick. Like Jill I have read
by Saul David
and will look forward to reading this
by Saul David

I wonder if his Zulu book is the one I should read....there are several to choose from on that subject, as you all know, especially:
by Donald R. Morris.
But with so many other books to read, I will have to put off that decision for now but would appreciate a recommendation.

by Saul David

Jill have you checked your PMs (smile)

Yes......Have I missed something? I got the one on the group read and replied.

Hi Jill,

I think that you can't go wrong with "Washing of the Spears", it's the book all others refer to and its an excellent story, hard to beat in fact.

by Donald R. Morris

Jill wrote: "Yes......Have I missed something? I got the one on the group read and replied."

I did not receive the reply.

Ooops......let me check and send it again. My computer suffers from senior moments every once in a while.

Hmmmm, it showed as being sent........I sent another PM.

Thanks for the recommendation, AR. I will probably go with:
by Donald R. Morris

I have heard wonderful things about it.

Hi Jill,

I'm pretty sure you will enjoy it, it provides a great historical sweep of the period and the fighting between the Zulu nation and Great Britain. I still watch the movie "Zulu" on a regular basis as well. A classic movie. Do you enjoy that old flick at all?

I love the movie "Zulu"....Michael Caine, Jack Hawkins, etc......and watch it whenever I can. The Zulus gave the British a bit of a slap at the face with their bravery and dignity.
I am a great fan of old films....really old films as in 1930s and even some silents. I particularly like "Four Feathers" based on the book on Empire cited below.

by A.E.W. Mason

I love the movie "Four Feathers" and I don't mind the more recent version as well :)

Jill,
I've found this, which is due for publication in July 2012

by Catharine Arnold

Description:
Beginning with an atmospheric account of Tyburn, we are set up for a grisly excursion through London as a city of ne'er do wells, taking in beheadings and brutality at the Tower, Elizabethan street crime, cutpurses and con-men, through to the Gordon Riots and Highway robbery of the 18th century and the rise of prisons, the police and the Victorian era of incarceration. As well as the crimes, Arnold also looks at the grotesque punishments meted out to those who transgressed the law throughout London's history - from the hangings, drawings and quarterings at Tyburn over 500 years to being boiled in oil at Smithfield. This popular historian also investigates the influence of London's criminal classes on the literature of the 19th and 20th centuries, and ends up with our old favourites, the Krays and Soho gangs of the 50s and 60s. London's crimes have changed over the centuries, both in method and execution. Underworld London traces these developments, from the highway robberies of the eighteenth century, made possible by the constant traffic of wealthy merchants in and out of the city, to the beatings, slashings and poisonings of the Victorian era.

Oh my, Geevee....that one really looks good. I just added it to the TBR.
Did you ever see the film about the Krays with Gary and Martin Kemp and the wonderful Billie Whitelaw? I don't know if it was well received but it was by me. I find that family so fascinating.....evil but fascinating. Also for evil, there is always Myra Hindley and Ian Brady......are they mentioned or is it more organized crime?

by Catharine Arnold

Geevee.....was at the library today and found a book on the London underworld which sounds much like the one we mentioned above.
by Catharine Arnold

This one was written in 2004. I skimmed it and it looked interesting, so I checked it out. If it doesn't live up to my expectations, I will await the one above.

Fergus Linnane

Thanks Jill - I'll be interested in your thoughts on

by Fergus Linnane.