Children's Books discussion

Come join us to discuss any or all of the following honor books:

Men, Microscopes, and Living Things, by Katherine Binney Shippen

The Golden Name Day by Jennie D. Lindquist

The Secret River by Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings
this edition if possible, with the pictures by Leonard Weisgard

The Golden Name Day is one of my childhood favorites. It's very expensive right now, perhaps in part because it's illustrated by Garth Williams. We can hope that Openlibrary.org gets a copy by the time we are ready to read it.

We read The Secret River already in the picture-book club, the newer edition illustrated by Leo & Diane Dillon. It's stunning, but has slightly different words and and flavor than the one that was so very dear to me when I was young. I do hope you can get a copy of the smaller book with the subtler, more nostalgic art.

I've never heard of the non-fiction book for this year, or the Newbery Winner, that we're discussing the previous month, Carry On, Mr. Bowditch

The Golden Name Day is lovely. I just need to remember where I have hidden my copy, as it seems to have disappeared under my mounds of books.

I guess I should try to locate the earlier version of The Secret River, as I think the library only has the recent one is kind of reticent about me ordering the older version through ILL.

I read The Golden Name Day for the first time earlier this year. I borrowed a library copy, though I'd grab my own if I could ever find it at a reasonable price. I already own the other two honor books from this year, but have not read the Shippen yet.

Oh Cheryl I hope you can get them, at least The Golden Name Day. It is one of my absolute childhood favorites! I REALLY wanted to have a name day! My American Girl doll, Kirsten, HAD to have a Swedish dress just like the cousins in the book. The story is so charming. I searched the library shelf by shelf to try to remember the name of this book. They apparently no longer own it but a few other libraries do. The Little Silver House is not quite as charming.

The only book my library owns is the Secret River with the Dillon's illustrations, which I read about 3 years ago. I'll ask for a copy so I can reread it. The Golden Name Day sounds like a great book, so I may try to get it through ILL.

QNPoohBear wrote: "Oh Cheryl I hope you can get them, at least The Golden Name Day. It is one of my absolute childhood favorites! I REALLY wanted to have a name day! My American Girl doll, Kirsten, HAD to have a Swed..."

My daughter is into to AG dolls and books, too. I am amazed at how much historical and geographical knowledge she gets from them.

Phil wrote: "
My daughter is into to AG dolls and books, too. I am amazed at how much historical and geographical knowledge she gets from them. "

Everything I know about history I know because of Little House on the Prairie and American Girl. I'm starting to teach my nieces history with the dolls and books now they can read independently and have some concept of history. I found The Golden Name Day because it was about Swedish girls, like Kirsten! It took many years but Kirsten finally did get her dress. I ordered the book from another library and I'll have to take Kirsten's picture with the book illustration.

I hope you can post that picture here.

Cheryl wrote: "I hope you can post that picture here."

I will! I'll be away next week but when I come back I'll pick the book up and reread it. I'm a little sketchy on the exact details but I sure do remember the big deal they made out of the name day and the Swedish costumes they wore.

QNPoohBear wrote: "Cheryl wrote: "I hope you can post that picture here."

I will! I'll be away next week but when I come back I'll pick the book up and reread it. I'm a little sketchy on the exact details but I sure..."

Astrid Lindgren also has some wonderful Name Day descriptions in her novels.

Manybooks wrote: "Astrid Lindgren also has some wonderful Name Day descriptions in her novels. ..."

She does? I've read everything I can find by her (except the Pippi sequels) and don't remember it anywhere...

Cheryl wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "Astrid Lindgren also has some wonderful Name Day descriptions in her novels. ..."

She does? I've read everything I can find by her (except the Pippi sequels) and don't remember i..."

I seem to remember it from the Noisy Village books (the German language editions), and from Madita (Madicken), but the English translations sometimes leave out chunks.

I do own some Noisy Village and will pay attention next time I read them. And I'd forgotten that translations are not always complete. Grr...

Cheryl wrote: "I do own some Noisy Village and will pay attention next time I read them. And I'd forgotten that translations are not always complete. Grr..."

There are entire episodes that I could not find in the English language translations of the Noisy village books, and they appear in different orders as well.

Apropos Name Day, it really bugs me that in the English language translation of Elsa Beskov's Puttes äventyr i blåbärsskogen (Peter in Blueberry Land), the anonymous translator has changed Peter's mother' Name Day to her birthday.

I don't remember name days in the Noisy Village books. They are picture books here but I may not remember them as well. The painter Carl Larsson has a depiction of a name day celebration in some of his paintings. I don't know if they still celebrate name days. The list has been updated but still doesn't include Nancy.

QNPoohBear wrote: "I don't remember name days in the Noisy Village books. They are picture books here but I may not remember them as well. The painter Carl Larsson has a depiction of a name day celebration in some of..."

I do remember Name Days being described in the German translations, but unfortunately, in the English translations, much of the details about specific cultural details ands traditions has been expunged.

The Golden Name Day is just as enchanting as I remembered! I always wanted to go hang out with the Bensons and Carlsons and have a name day party! Everything that happens in the book is so much fun. I love the animals, the parties, picnics, the flowers, the farm and of course Name Days! The only thing I picked up on as an adult is that Nancy's mother is in the hospital for a year. In the early 1900s the only reason for that is if she's mentally ill or has consumption (tuberculosis). I'm leaning towards TB since she is allowed needles and a year is a specific length of time while a mental hospital would probably be indefinite.

The Garth Williams illustrations are so lovely! However, he didn't really do any research into clothing styles of the early 1900s. Nancy's lace dress with the drop waist looks close enough but some of the others are more contemporary to when the book was published.

I will take a picture of my dear Kirsten in her Swedish costume soon.

QNPoohBear wrote: "The Golden Name Day is just as enchanting as I remembered! I always wanted to go hang out with the Bensons and Carlsons and have a name day party! Everything that happens in the book is so much fun..."

I am assuming TB as well, and it also occurred to me that Nancy herself might also be at least in some danger of becoming consumptive, as especially in the beginning, she is described as thin, pale and the Bensons have been told to let her rest and recover from a strenuous school year.

I received my ILL copy and plan to start reading it today.

Manybooks wrote: "
I am assuming TB as well, and it also occurred to me that Nancy herself might also be at least in some danger of becoming consumptive, as especially in the beginning, she is described as thin, pale and the Bensons have been told to let her rest and recover from a strenuous school year.

.."

Yes I picked up on that as well. In Anne of Green Gables, Marilla is told to tell Anne to pack away her books for the summer and the narration says Marilla reads Anne's death warrant by consumption into the doctor's warning. I think the Jennie Lundquist was juxtaposing city life = unhealthy vs. country life, fresh hair, exercise = healthy. She does romanticize country village/farm life much in the way Lucy Maud Montgomery does but that doesn't detract from an enchanting story for tween girls... or adults. I enjoyed it this time around as much as I did the first time.

QNPoohBear wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "
I am assuming TB as well, and it also occurred to me that Nancy herself might also be at least in some danger of becoming consumptive, as especially in the beginning, she is desc..."

Good point, and especially in L.M. Montgomery's short stories there often is a very obvious city-bad and country-good dichotomy, which although I happen to prefer country life to city life I do sometimes find a trifle over-done and exaggerated.

QNPoohBear wrote: "Manybooks wrote: "
I am assuming TB as well, and it also occurred to me that Nancy herself might also be at least in some danger of becoming consumptive, as especially in the beginning, she is desc..."

It is too bad that this novel (and even more so the sequels) are often either hard to find or too expensive.

I finished Golden Name Day today. I liked the story, even though it was a rather quiet story and the most exciting things that happened were the little family celebrations. I have to admit, that I got a bit impatient with Nancy when she got so stubborn about the whole name day thing. However, everything eventually worked out OK. The writing was old-fashioned and very descriptive. Wiliams' sketches added a lot to the narrative.

The Crystal Tree and The Little Silver House aren't as charming. I don't remember anything about either of them. The name day celebration got me hook, line and sinker. I still have to get a picture of Kirsten in her costume.

The Secret River
I really enjoyed this story about the little girl wanting to help her father during the "hard times." This story about a black family is presumably set during the Great Depression in Florida. The book reads almost like a traditional fairy tale, with the child having to follow her nose to find the secret river and catch all the fish; then having to offer fish as protection against the wild animals. The illustrations by the Dillons are lush and gorgeous. In the illustration of the owl, the feathers depict the owl's stern face in a repeating pattern. In one illustration, the trees have faces and hands. These details help capture the magical feel of the story.

Beverly wrote: "The Secret River
I really enjoyed this story about the little girl wanting to help her father during the "hard times." This story about a black family is presumably set during the Great Depression ..."

I have enjoyed this, but I also really am annoyed that the book that actually won the Newbery Honour is almost impossible or too expensive to easily get as I would love to contrast the Dillons' illustrations with the original ones.

Not ideal, but at least something:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1Htuh-KGIo

Michael wrote: "Not ideal, but at least something:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1Htu..."

Thanks for the link!

Finally got them!
Just realized that The Secret River was published posthumously. I should investigate, see if there's a story there.

There is! And it's explained in an introduction, in the book itself. Apparently Rawlings wanted to see if she could write a whole book about Calpurnia, but her 'untimely death' made it possible for this to get illustrated and released.

When I was a child, one of the things that I loved most about this story was the idea of 'follow your nose.' I was just beginning to understand metaphor, and so enjoyed the idea both literally and metaphorically. If turning to look at interesting sights, towards interesting sounds, could really lead to adventures, to secret places, I was all for it!

I also admired Calpurnia's courage. I had no sense of my own bravery, but since she showed what someone was capable of, I felt more confident myself.

And of course the note on the little red boat: "Please tie me up again when you are through with me. I am so afraid of getting lost" is delightful. The idea of sharing, and trust, enchants.

This time I noticed that we never see Calpurnia's face. We almost do when she's still asleep in her little bed, but elsewise she's turned at least 1/2-way away from us. We see what she sees. We look beyond her nose.... Also, we are left to imagine that she's non-white... she could be of Florida Indian, or Mexican, or African descent. We don't see her parents, either.

A treasure of a book. I'm so lucky to have known it as a child, as an adult, and to also know the Dillon's version.

I just really wish that I could compare the two versions directly, but my new library doesn't have the new book. I've suggested they buy it, but I don't know how receptive they are or what their budget is like. The original seems longer, and perhaps a bit less polished....

Enchanting reread of The Golden Name Day.

Nancy has to be parted from her Mama, sick in the hospital, and her Papa, with a full-time job and nobody to cover for him, for a year, so she goes to live with Grandma and Grandpa and Karl the Twelfth and the other animals and the cousins down the road and the aunt & uncle on the farm. Sometimes her loneliness for her own parents overwhelms her, but all these lovely people know so much about friendship & joy, and have such zest for celebrating all of life's milestones, that only one funk lasts for more than a few hours. And that is resolved in such a delightful way that all of us, including Nancy and her readers, are glad she had that growing experience.

This was a childhood favorite, and also a Newbery Honor book. I'm sure the committee gave it the prize (at least in part) because a young reader can learn a lot about traditional Swedish culture, and learn that the immigrants love America even better than their homeland. I'm sure they also loved the wholesome values of family & community, or courage & compassion.

What I loved most when young were the details. A name day sounded like a great idea, and if I ever had a daughter I wanted to give her a Swedish name. And I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood where I could put May baskets on doorknobs. And yellow roses wallpaper, and a buttercup star, and a floral crown....

This time that I read it I made the connection to another of my very favorite books from childhood, The Secret Garden. It's not just the obvious of a girl who needs roses put in her cheeks and (view spoiler)[a boy in a wheelchair (hide spoiler)] but in the joy of glory of the natural world and healing power of flowers, and hay, and kittens. (Come to think of it, there's a bit of a resemblance to Heidi here, too.)

The illustrations are typical Garth Williams: marvelous animals and clothing, furniture, etc, but a little difficulty with people's faces sometimes.

Cheryl wrote: "This time that I read it I made the connection to another of my very favorite books from childhood, The Secret Garden. It's not just the obvious of a girl who needs roses put in her cheeks and [a boy in a wheelchair (hide spoiler)] but in the joy of glory of the natural world and healing power of flowers, and hay, and kittens. (Come to think of it, there's a bit of a resemblance to Heidi here, too.)"

I don't think that's a coincidence. In the early 1900s there was a huge open air movement. Nancy's mother might even be in an open air hospital to cure her illness- probably TB. Disease was a side-effect of city living. In Mary Lennox's case, her upbringing in the hot climate of India, never having fresh cool air, made her peevish and sickly looking.

Great points; thank you for reminding me of that bit of history!

QNPoohBear wrote: "Cheryl wrote: "This time that I read it I made the connection to another of my very favorite books from childhood, The Secret Garden. It's not just the obvious of a girl who needs roses put in her ..."

And in Heidi, the grandfather clearly points out to Clara's grandmother and father that Clara's return to health has mostly been due to God's sunshine and the the healthy alpine winds (and of course the goat milk, but Clara really starts to get stronger and stronger once she accompanies Heidi up into the alpine meadows full of flowers and drenched in sunshine).

Also, we are left to imagine that she's non-white... she could be of Florida Indian, or Mexican, or African descent. We don't see her parents, either..."

At first I was confused by your statement, but then realized you were referring to the original published edition. In the Dillons' book, it is very clear that the child and family are African American.

Right.
Weisgard's edition of Secret River is much more subtle, leaving more room for the child reader to use his or her imagination and feel more deeply immersed into the story, imo. Dillon's vibrant gorgeousness is more set up for the reader, more given unto him or her, if that makes any sense.

Cheryl wrote: "Right.
Weisgard's edition of Secret River is much more subtle, leaving more room for the child reader to use his or her imagination and feel more deeply immersed into the story, imo. Dillon's vibra..."

That definitely makes more sense and I wish that my library had the original, as it is incredibly rare and expensive to find otherwise, sigh.

Cheryl wrote: "Right.
Weisgard's edition of Secret River is much more subtle, leaving more room for the child reader to use his or her imagination and feel more deeply immersed into the story, imo. Dillon's vibra..."

That does make sense. And @ Gundula, you can get a sense of the original if you go to the link Michael sent on message 28. It's not the whole story, but one could see some of the original artwork.

Beverly wrote: "Cheryl wrote: "Right.
Weisgard's edition of Secret River is much more subtle, leaving more room for the child reader to use his or her imagination and feel more deeply immersed into the story, imo...."

Thanks, I might try that.

Kirsten and The Golden Name Day. Try to imagine the farm behind her. Her costume is not the same as the one in the book but I insisted on the pilot cap instead of the one in the Carl Larsson illustration because of the book.

Thanks for the photos! I would love to have a Samantha doll, but as you said in another post, they are quite expensive.

Oh wonderful; thank you for sharing!

Beverly wrote: "Thanks for the photos! I would love to have a Samantha doll, but as you said in another post, they are quite expensive."

The secondary market is favorable to buyers right now. If I come across another Samantha I will let you know. I had an extra Molly but sold her. Samantha was my sister's so if she moves out, it will be back to my sister. The German made dolls from the 80s and 90s are the highest quality. My Kirsten is much loved!

QNPoohBear wrote: "Beverly wrote: "Thanks for the photos! I would love to have a Samantha doll, but as you said in another post, they are quite expensive."

The secondary market is favorable to buyers right now. If I..."

German made dolls have always been great quality and very collectible. I wish I still had my Käthe Kruse dolls.

The Secret River

Now for me, in order for a given novel to be worthy of a five star ranking, it must be both readable and also personally relatable. And no, I do not necessarily mean that I have to totally and utterly see myself reflected in the main protagonist (although yes indeed, that does often rather help) but mainly and more importantly that the hero or heroine must be someone I can generally admire and appreciate as a person, as an individual in and of himself or herself (someone who is likeable, someone who is interesting, someone who displays courage when and if required, but is also not jut total and unassailable perfection either). And with Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings' (posthumously published) 1955 and 1956 Newbery Honour The Secret River, yes indeed, a glowing five star rating is both deserved and in my humble opinion also very much required. For I just so so much love young Calpurnia and her resourceful kindheartedness and how in The Secret River she "follows her nose" to the unknown magical river and like in the many folktales celebrating kindness later shares her bounty of caught catfish with both animals and Mother Albirtha before giving the catfish (and still more than enough of them) to her father to sell at his fish-stand (thus making the hard times dissipate for both her family and her neighbours), not to mention that I also have found the juxtaposition of fantasy and reality in The Secret River both lovely and thought-provoking (with a tingly feeling that one never is altogether certain and sure whether the secret river Calpurnia and her dog have encountered is or has been bona fide reality or is like what Mother Albirtha claims something that exists only in one's mind, to be recalled and fondly remembered as needed and wanted).

A sweet and magical family story with important but never openly didactic messages regarding in particular friendship, perseverance and following one's intuition is The Secret River, and I also do definitely much appreciate that Calpurnia's parents, although they are of course worried about their daughter when they think she might be lost in the forest, never scold or harangue her but are simply and lovingly just appreciative of the fact that she has managed to return home with the oh so necessary catfish. And furthermore, I am also absolutely glad to have waited until I could locate a copy of the original 1955 The Secret River. For while the 2011 (and rather abridged) version of The Secret River certainly does visually glow with Leo and Diane Dillon's expressive accompanying illustrations, personally I simply did not desire to read and review an abridged version of The Secret River (mostly because I do not generally enjoy abridgements anyhow, and yes, I also absolutely wanted to read the text that actually won the Newbery Honour for Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings and not a condensed version thereof). And actually and indeed, I have also aesthetically much preferred Leo Weisgard's sepia toned accompanying illustrations (for the 1955 original The Secret River) to the 2011 pictures by the Dillons, finding his pictures a bit gentler, more realistic and especially with regard to the depictions of the wild animals that Calpurnia encounters on her way home from the secret river considerably less exaggerated and not nearly as potentially frightening as the Dillons' renditions.