Questions About Educated

by Tara Westover (Goodreads Author)

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This book is disgusting to me. I do not understand why an educated and worldly individual would have difficulty understanding the horrible and violent upbringing that she experienced. It is unbelievable to me that she could not understand the violent situation, yet uneducated upbringing she endured. I have completely misunderstood her manner of education in a life in our country, in this country, how is this possible?

Marsmannix Unless you have been raised in a closed, fundamentalist sytem, and i was in one for 26 years, (no matter what flavor: Islam, Hassidic, or differing fl…moreUnless you have been raised in a closed, fundamentalist sytem, and i was in one for 26 years, (no matter what flavor: Islam, Hassidic, or differing flavors of Christian) you have no idea of the level of brainwashing, gaslighting, emotional abuse that goes on. Your very ability to perceive external reality is distorted through the lens of the system. Yes, it was horrible to read the abuse & how it was ratoinalized. Again, unless you've been in it, of course the outsider will shake their head and condemn the victim.(less)

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I saw mentioned that Tyler Westover has published a review of this book, giving it 5 stars and also excerpts of the letter he writes his parents. Can someone let me know where I can find this?

Julie I just googled that. It's a review on Amazon.
"Good message, although some supporting information isn't fully accurate -Tyler W.
ByAmazon Customeron Feb…moreI just googled that. It's a review on Amazon.
"Good message, although some supporting information isn't fully accurate -Tyler W.
ByAmazon Customeron February 26, 2018
Format: Hardcover|Verified Purchase
First, let me identify myself. I am Tyler Westover, brother number three in this book. Reading through other comments, it is clear that the book has become very controversial. A natural tendency when we encounter someone that we disagree strongly with is to attempt to dehumanize those individuals into foul monsters. We see this behavior regularly in politics as well as in arguments over land and other natural resources. My purpose in writing this review is not to try to prove either side wrong; rather, it is to “humanize” the people on both sides, while also providing a partial perspective that people on both sides of the argument may be able to agree with. Several concerns prevent this from being a full perspective.

I will start by quoting an email that I sent to Tara on Feb. 21, 2016. I still mostly feel the same way. Here are excerpts from the note that I sent:

“Overall, I like the book and wish that we could all understand it. It not only contains important messages, but the writing style and descriptions are captivating. … I could add a number of details on Part 1: Idaho. For your earlier memories, I was old enough to have access to more information, and I could clarify. I am not sure that I would recommend changing your text much, though, because my additions would also add complications. Usually in reports of scientific and engineering projects we follow what is known as the "80/20 rule," which is that reports focus on key messages and points and deliberately leave out seemingly contradictory or excessively complicated information for general audiences. The fact is that practically no-one can understand all of the details in a complicated situation, and focusing on the underlying themes is generally best unless the audience has specific need to try to grasp the details. I think that you did well following the 80/20 rule. If you like I could send clarifying notes that you could include in an appendix or as publication notes. As you mention, we have different memories and different perceptions of the same events, and I recognize that if you try to include my version, it will likely interfere with your clean narrative.”

Some elements in the book have been misinterpreted from the way that Tara likely intended, and I think that some things Tara misunderstood herself. Because education is a primary theme of the book, I will offer a different perspective on that topic here. In writing this alternate perspective, I do not intend to convey that Tara’s interpretation of events is wholly in error. Our parents are extremists, and they and other members of our family have done terrible things that have hurt Tara. There is no doubt there was abuse, neglect, and other awful choices. Those events are described in Tara’s book, and I will not add new comments about those events here. I was removed quite far from the family when most of those events took place, and for the most part they are not entirely clear in my mind. As indicated above, I intend to restrict my narrative here to my personal experiences or actual events for which I have clear accounts that I expect will generate little disagreement from other individuals who were involved.

As Tara describes, our father is very suspicious of the government. At one point, he told us, his children, that he was concerned someone from the government could come to our home and gun shots could be fired. Nothing he ever said, however, led me to believe that this concern was connected with our homeschool. Instead, he referenced Charlton Hesston’s sentiment that the only way the government would get his guns would be from his “cold dead hands.” To expand a little further, our father also said that he did not think that the government would send local law enforcement or even federal agents to take guns away from law-abiding U.S. citizens. He considered it more likely that such a task would have to be fulfilled by troops from the United Nations. It should also be noted that the guns in question did not include high capacity, semi-automatic rifles, such as have been used in mass shootings or are designed for intense combat. I have never seen our father with such a weapon, and as far as I know, he has never owned one.

Regarding higher education, many readers of the book have concluded that Tara attended formal higher education against apparently insurmountable odds. Perhaps it is not that surprising after all. Of the seven children in our family, six of them attended formal higher education classes (Luke is the only one who has not, and as described in Tara’s book, classroom education is not really his thing). In addition, both our mother “Faye” and our father “Gene” attended at least one year of university classes each. Our mother frequently encouraged me from a young age to prepare to attend university classes by the time I was sixteen. On the other hand, our father has expressed great dissatisfaction with the hubris associated with university education as well as its bias toward liberal thinking.

Observing people around me, it seemed that university degrees actually helped very few people in our community. Most individuals that I knew of returned to work on their family’s farm after getting a degree. Those that did not return, I really didn’t know about. Without being able to perceive a direct benefit from a university degree, I did not initially consider higher education very seriously. Our father was actually the person who first gave me a specific purpose to get a university degree. He told me that if I got an engineering degree, then I could provide engineering stamps for building and bridge designs for the family construction business. Our dad mostly created his own designs for sheds and other custom structures that his business built, but sometimes he had to have his designs stamped by a professional engineer. If I became a professional engineer, not only could I stamp our designs, but I could probably also be more flexible in the design to save additional costs in fabrication materials. The idea captured my interest, but I was concerned about being able to finish an engineering degree. At the time, I was about sixteen, and four years of classes in a university seemed like a very long time. Neither of my parents had actually graduated. I considered that the only way to make sure that I could graduate would be to win a four-year full-tuition scholarship; at length, that is what I determined to do. Tara was correct that my father often fought me to go to work rather than study.

Part of the application for the scholarship that I wanted (a Trustee’s scholarship at BYU) required writing an essay response to a quote by Blaise Pascal. Again it was our father who provided the best advice on how to approach the essay. He suggested that I spend a full day in the library at Utah State University to read all I could about Blaise Pascal to find the context of the quote and perhaps additional complementary quotes. I followed my father’s advice and won the scholarship. Years later as I was finishing a bachelor’s degree in engineering at BYU, Purdue University offered me a fellowship for graduate school. I was excited to go but also very hesitant. It was important to me that I marry someone who shared my religious beliefs, and that seemed much less probable in Indiana than in Utah. After much deliberation and hearing some negative stories about graduate school in far-away places, I had almost decided to turn down Purdue’s offer and stay in Utah. Before I made my final decision, though, I consulted my parents for their advice. They both recommended that I go to Purdue. I particularly remember my father’s advice. He told me not to let fear of the future cause me to miss such a great opportunity. With that reassurance, I decided to go, and after five years, I earned a Ph.D. from Purdue.

Undoubtedly, Tara’s experience talking about higher education with our parents was much different than mine. After reading a memoir, I would hope that readers have new questions about their understanding of the events and people being scrutinized rather than feeling confident that their understanding is now sufficient to render accurate judgment. Every person involved has their own paradigm and experiences.

Postscript Note: I have received some negative comments on the review above from people who think that I am trying to impose my experiences on Tara. That really is not my intention. In her book, in numerous places, Tara interprets for me and other members of my family things that we did, said, thought, and even felt. I cannot speak for the other members of my family, but in my case I think in many instances she greatly incorrectly conveyed my experiences. In the interest of a balanced viewpoint, it seems that I should at least attempt to share a part of my perspective, while still supporting her as much as I can. I do recognize this is her memoir, and she describes her experiences from her paradigm. However, it seems reasonable for me to explain my perspective and outline events that demonstrate the validity of my perspective, in my review."(less)

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Wow I just look down and I see so many of you have read it and enjoyed it, so happy to get this and seeing your reviews I pretty much know I will love it, no question here!!? Guess I have to put a question out, how much did you really like it ?

Susan Stemont I didn't exactly enjoy it, but I rated it 5 stars. It's a very difficult book to read, but I think it's important…moreI didn't exactly enjoy it, but I rated it 5 stars. It's a very difficult book to read, but I think it's important(less)

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This question contains spoilers... (view spoiler)

Aenea Jones I got that vibe too, first when he started to call her the same derogatary name "fish eyes" that he called his girlfriend, and later wife, Emily. Him …moreI got that vibe too, first when he started to call her the same derogatary name "fish eyes" that he called his girlfriend, and later wife, Emily. Him calling her a "whore" is an indicator that he saw her at least in some sexual way, and then of course the parking lot scene, were he tugged on her clothes and her pants came off. The way Tara's sister Audrey reacted to her repeating one of Shawn's lines seemed too shocked if his violence hadn't been in a sexual way.
The whole confrontation, when Tara accused Shawn, their father called him and they "made up"; the subsequent visit of their father to Audrey and his plea to forgive Shawn, that he was a new man - all that for a few hits, sprained wrists, heads in toilets? That is too intense a reaction.

My guess is that Shawn did more than just hit and insult them, but Tara decided not to write directly about it. She gave the readers enough hints to suspect something though. Maybe the accusation of rape was too big.(less)

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Couldn't put it down, I nearly finished the entire book in one sitting. But I'm curious, does anyone know how it compares to The Liar's Club and The Glass Castle? (I'm wondering if I'm amazed at this memoir solely because I haven't read anything similar to this before, and that if I had read those two books prior to this, I wouldn't have been as mesmerised by Educated.)

Kris While I enjoyed "The Glass Castle," I do feel that "Educated" is a cut above. Very similar protagonists, for sure -- incredibly bright women who were …moreWhile I enjoyed "The Glass Castle," I do feel that "Educated" is a cut above. Very similar protagonists, for sure -- incredibly bright women who were achievers. But I think that the woman who wrote The Glass Castle was more of an attention seeker, more of the type of person who needed to prove how much she had risen above her family background (which surprisingly had a darker thread of abuse than Tara Westover's). I saw Jeannette Walls speak at a speaker's series, and was dynamic and interesting and pretty impressed with herself. I feel that Tara was more humble in the telling of her story.(less)

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