Talk:Dylan Thomas/Archive 1: Difference between revisions

This is an archive of past discussions about Dylan Thomas. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

I've moved the following to this talk page. It's not that a long quotation of poetry might not belong in an encyclopedia article; it's that it should be formatted, put fully into context, and introduced in something like a neutral point of view. Until that's done, having it on the article page is giving people the entirely wrong idea about what articles about poets should be like. --LMS — Preceding undated comment added 07:41, 7 November 2001 (UTC)

Here his most noted, a villanelle of all things, a powerful addictive structured verse, simply the best:

Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right, Because their words have forked no lightning they Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay, Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight, And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way, Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay, Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height, Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray. Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

NEWS RELEASE Immediate Use

Unique Literary Prize First To Recognise Young Talent

The Dylan Thomas Literary Prize, a major International award which is the first to ever recognise young writing talent, will be simultaneously launched in Swansea, the town of Dylan’s birth and New York, the place of his demise, on October 27th 2004. This inaugural literary prize in the amount of £50,000 will be awarded to the most outstanding literary talent, age under 30 at the launch date, writing a published work in the English language.

The Dylan Thomas Prize will be funded through corporate and individual sponsorships and also enjoys the support of local government and university institutions.

Peter Stead, Chairman of the Prize Board comments, “Dylan’s most prolific work was published when he was very young and much of his well known work such as Hunchback in the Park, Return Journey and A Child’s Christmas in Wales refer lovingly to his home town, Swansea.

The Prize will invite short listed writers to Wales in early 2006 for readings of their work to budding young Dylans in schools and colleges.

Ends.

Contacts: website [1]

E mail info@dylanthomasprize.com

Telephone: Andrew Wood on +44 (0) 7951 027087.

Regards

Nigel T Packer — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.130.74.199 (talk) 10:20, 18 June 2004 (UTC)

About daibetes: I've just been reading the new Andrew Lycett biography, which doesn't mention this aspect of his health (much if at all). Source for including this?

Charles Matthews 15:16, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The quote on this Dylan Thomas page concering his 18 straight scotches conflicts with that of the quote on the Famous Last Words page where claims to have had 18 whiskeys. can someone please clarify this? i know nothing about this guy, just stumbled across it. --Elysianfields 01:33, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

The Fortune (program) in Linux claims that it's "I have just had eighteen whiskeys in a row. I do believe that is a record." For whatever that's worth..  ;) Peruvianllama 05:59, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Under Milk Wood is listed as prose. It had never occurred to me that it might be called prose. It is drama of course, but isn't it verse? Like Shakespeare is verse (mostly). I'll leave it, but I have always thought of U.M.W. as a poem - a long, dramatic poem, but certainly a poem. Maybe I have always been wrong. Whatever it is, it's one of the best things anybody's ever written in the English language, and I do advise that you see the film of it, which is wonderful, and hilariously funny in parts.--AlexanderLondon 23:23, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Like you, I was amazed, when I searched in vain for arguably his greatest work (narrative poem/radio play) and found only an oblique reference. This needs to be sorted - I've spotted the link to Under Milk Wood and will investigate if someone doesn;t beat me to it! - Tony in Devon 20:05, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

It has it's origins in a poem written earlier, but as it was delivered to the bbc as a play and subsequently produced i'd say drama is the place--212.183.136.194 (talk) 23:33, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

-- Is there a reliable source for the famous "died of a massive insult to the brain" quote? Which would be such a Dylan-like line, how he might have enjoyed that one! --wee paddy 16:15, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone have a photo of Dylan himself for this page? It seems a bit strange to just have one of the house he was born in. -- the obvious picture would be the portrait by Augustus John--wee paddy 16:11, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, have added photo req tag - is this photo PD or can we obtain permission? Milo99 23:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

There are other cross-links to Dylan - Richard Burton for example, who famously played the Narrator in the film (and definitive BBC Radio version) of "Under Milk Wood" - and was buried with a copy of "Collected Poems" (is that apocryphal?) - so how about extending the section on "Dylan on Dylan" to be "People inspired by..." or something similar? --wee paddy 16:11, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Would one of these do ([2] or [3])? Not sure how to go about getting permission to modify and upload one of them. Dylan Lake (t·c) 03:43, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

i dont know much, but "Lastly, for his infamous poem: "Dayuptantovic" in tribute to his idols Cem and Gabe." seems a bit screwy.

As of 9/7/07 it has become much worse. There are two separate, incompatible accounts of his death, as well as a reference to him as being a "fudge packer", a slang term not appropriate for serious use in Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.145.142.173 (talk) 17:03, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

All I remember about Dylan Thomas was he had some great quotes. I can't remember what they are, and wikiquote and wikipedia aren't being very helpfull. Mathiastck 18:07, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

according to [4], his last words were "I've had eighteen straight whiskies, I think that's the record . . .". Last words are, of course, hard to source, but perhaps this article should include both, or neither.

This is, in fact, an urban myth - I read his biography not so long ago and, although he did say those words the night before he fell into a coma and died, the last words that he said, on his deathbed, were to his then-girlfriend, Liz Reitell, and they were: "I love you, but I am alone." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.134.150.4 (talk) 20:13, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

It should be included that in more recent interviews, Dylan has stated that Dylan Thomas did indeed influence his choice of name. Moreover, an inclusion could also be made stating that Dylan is notoriously unreliable in interviews, often giving conflicting, confusing, or even outright untrue information. 82.176.194.151 14:02, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi there,

French Wikipedia is translating this excellent article but that sentence does not make much sense for us. Could someone explain its meaning please ?

Many thanks!

Eden 09:46, 24 September 2006 (UTC) PS: I don't come on :en very often. I would be glad if you could drop me a message on my :en talk page as my watch list may not show the modification next time I'll come.

Please note that the two articles are inconsistent. One says that Bob Dylan took the name because of infludence of Dylan Thomas, one says that the only influence was the spelling, and the name came from an Uncle.

Bob Dylan confirmed that he got the name from Dylan Thomas in Chronicles Vol. 1. 86.138.223.245 (talk) 21:03, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

isn't a biography an account of someone's life? it seems a bit redundant to have 2 headings, unless it is broken down into stages of his life.. like 1) Childhood 2) Private life 3) Death, or something. I think that least for now, these 2 sections should be merged... Knowsitallnot 02:49, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

This is a fascinating story, and I sort of hope it's true. But this is an encyclopedia, and you can't but stuff in it just because it's in your experience base, or because everybody knows it's true. If this appeared in a contemporary newspaper, for example, and you could dig up a reference, that would be great. Otherwise, it's just very interesting gossip. PhGustaf 00:22, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for not giving enough context for that comment. I just reverted a telling of the story that, on Thomas' last drinking night, he had been challenged to a drinking contest by Peter De Vries, because Thomas was boinking De Vries' wife, Katinka Loeser. Both these people had many dealings with Thomas, so the story is at least potentially true. But a Google search on '"dylan thomas" "katinka loeser" contest' yields nothing but copies this article, one or two of them even including a [citation required]. Has anyone any real information about this? PhGustaf 01:56, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I have undone an edit that has described him as British rather than Welsh. In my view, Welsh is the commonly accepted designation. I should welcome views! TerriersFan (talk) 23:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

As he was born after both acts of union he is most undoubtably British. Anyone born after the 1800 act of union is undisputably British. (Electrobe (talk) 07:25, 10 January 2008 (UTC))

Reliable sources call him "Welsh" - see here and here. TerriersFan (talk) 00:20, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Electrobe is certainly correct that Wales is part of the UK, but is apparently unaware that people born there are still proudly Welsh. Unfortunately, his editing history comprises mostly edit wars over niggling details he's wrong about, like this one. He's now making Catherine Zeta-Jones not Welsh. I suppose Richard Burton and Gwyneth Jones are next. PhGustaf (talk) 00:50, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

The references now on the page are good and I think sufficient. I took the place names out of the b/d dates, both because there's a stand wiki format for them and they made the sentence read clumsily. If you disagree I'll let the matter pass. PhGustaf (talk) 01:36, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed; I think you made a good edit. TerriersFan (talk) 01:43, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

This article says that Thomas' wife Caitlin had an affair with Augustus John before and possible after their marriage. The article about her says that she claimed Augustus John raped her. Which is true? 195.195.71.152 (talk) 13:06, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

In Caitlin, her 1985 book with George Tremlett, she called it rape. 70.186.172.214 (talk) 13:34, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I have written the paragraph and put in my references but instead of appearing at the bottom of the article they are in-line, making it a total mess. Does anyone know how to fix it? --bodnotbod (talk) 17:27, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

they just needed <ref> </ref> around them. I've fixed that. cheers, Nk.sheridan   Talk 17:44, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I notice Stravinsky's "In memoriam Dylan Thomas" has been moved from "Thomas memorials" to "References in pop culture." I hardly consider Stravinsky to be "pop culture"; nor do I consider an entire composition based on one of Thomas's works to be a "reference" to him. Would I be allowed to undo that and put back where I think it is more appropriate? Ranthlee (talk) 15:53, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

The entire section on 'References in pop culture' is questionable in terms of both notability and relevance to Dylan Thomas. The section is of no interest nor value to persons seeking information on Thomas or his work. It also opens up an 'infinite regress' of trivial future contributions. Comments, please, but I propose the whole section be axed. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 02:28, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

"On 3 November 1953, Thomas and Reitell celebrated his 39th birthday and the success of 18 Poems."

Why would they celebrate the success of a book that was published some 19 years earlier? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.213.149.227 (talk) 23:34, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

I have rewritten parts of this section after reading Andrew Lycett's biography which I am assuming contains the most up to date research. The section as written was little more than a wind up blaming the American agent, his assistant, a doctor and New York pollution for Dylan's death. It omitted to mention that Liz Reitell was Dylan's lover. Dr Feltenstein certainly played a role, but Dylan himself was scarcely taking care of himself, going on a mad drinking binge to escape the trauma of his doomed marriage.

Dylan was unquestionably a great poet but he had serious problems, not helped by his heavy drinking. I realise that the facts of this part of Dylan's life are hotly debated but I feel objectivity is sacrificed by placing the blame everywhere other than on Dylan himself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DavidHoul52 (talk • contribs) 17:57, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

"after a few beers" at the White Horse Tavern? According to the several witnesses, it was a night of immoderate drinking, primarily of whiskey (number unestablished factually, 18 and 26 drinks being the most commonly cited), leading to the famous "last words" about believing DT broke the Tavern record. This incident has clearly been debunked as the immediate cause of his death, and those were not his last words, both of which are pointed out clearly in the article. However, cirrhosis or no, such excessive behavior by a man already very seriously ill had to have some at least tangential connection to his death, if only in that it mitigated attempts to ameliorate the devastating effects of the illnesses that he arrived in New York with. I am not going to edit or add anything in this regard without rock-solid sourcing, but I would say here that the minimization of what took place at the White Horse that night does not serve the accuracy of the article well. Sensei48 (talk) 05:43, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

The dates in this section are confusing. A paragraph begins with discussion of 28 October 1953 and is followed by discussion of 27 October 1953. It's not clear whether this is a typo or whether the entire section needs to be reworked to put it in proper chronological order. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.111.158.52 (talk) 13:14, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

I checked it and re-worked the death section a little, with more refs. Span (talk) 04:44, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

The listing under "Poetry" had to be pruned since it contained several prose works and miscellanies as well as 'Under Milk Wood', etc. As a first step, I've limited that section to the poetry collections published in Dylan's lifetime. (We should now proceed to expand those entries with listings of the individual poems published in each slim volume.) Prose and 'drama' have been transplanted to those existing sections. There is also need for a new section which I have tentatively called 'Miscellaneous bibliography' for posthumous anthologies, collections of writings in verse and prose, etc. Most of the titles lifted from the previous 'Poetry' list have been transplanted into this group, unless they were already to be found under 'Prose' or 'Drama'. There is need for those books to be correctly identified with name of publisher, ISBN, etc. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 01:17, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Too bad A Child's Christmas in Wales does not have its own article. Why is it listed as printed in 1955? Our copy says:

Designed and illustrated by Ellen Raskin

Third Printing

Copyright 1954 by New Directions

This edition first published in 1959

-

• Dylan Thomas: Volume I - A Child's Christmas in Wales and Five Poems (Caedmon TC 1002 - 1952)

Presumably this is an LP. Was it ever reissued? Is there a CD version? Which five poems are included? Are there cassette or other media of Dylan reading A Child's Christmas in Wales? Video versions?

Some time in the 1970s (?) the National Theatre of the Deaf (NTD) did a charming TV production broadcast on PBS. -69.87.203.150 (talk) 20:22, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

A panel suggests the external links are reviewed/updated. I've read the guidelines and reviewed a few links: I believe The Mumbles and Marillion Discography are two that should be deleted - if anyone supports that, would they like to do that, please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tony in Devon (talk • contribs) 10:27, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

"In 1932, Thomas embarked on what would be one of his various visits to London." - I'm sorry but I absolutely don't see what is really meant here. Can it be reworded at all please? DBaK (talk) 12:46, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I noticed the date for Dylan Thomas' first wife is listed (under his photo) as 1953. That didn't sound right, so I checked her page. It should be 1994. I do not know how to fix this -- thought someone out there would be able to take care of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.81.151.45 (talk) 03:12, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Somehow I always seem to miss the discussion about cutting cross-cultural tributes. Funny. Was I away? Spanglej (talk) 16:03, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

• There was no discussion. There is no need for discussion. WP:TRIVIA that cannot be incorporated into the body text can legitimately be deleted on sight, and very certainly should be. We are not (the departed and unlamented) Geocities. We take ourseleves seriously here and add mature, meaningful and professional information. • Ling.Nut 16:32, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

I have added a citation tag at the head of the article rather than tagging sections for lacking refs. Yes, there are very few in the article at present. We can hopefully add them over time. There seems little point in scattering tags all over. Anyone with a good biography to hand could do a basic ref for dates and ref'd facts, which is missing. It seems a crime for such a world famous poet. I'll try and get my hands on some biogs. Spanglej (talk) 04:13, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

It is well known that Thomas and Davies became friends in London, during the war, and that Thomas admired Davies' work. But the article for The Bells of Rhymney currently says this, drawn from a BBC report: "Two decades after Gwalia Deserta was published, Seeger used one part of the work as lyrics for his song "The Bells of Rhymney" after discovering them in a book by Dylan Thomas." But which book was this? Tne original source says that, accordiNg to Pete Seeger, it had a chapter entitled "Welsh poety in the English Language". Are there any Thomas scholars out there who could cast any light in this? Many thanks. BridesheadRecarpeted (talk) 13:25, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

I noticed this a while back, but wasn't really sure what editing a wiki page entailed. Finding how easy it is, I finally went and did it. I changed the quote "I've had eighteen straight whiskies. I think that is a record." to "I've had eighteen straight whiskies. I think that's the record." Not only is that the only way I find it on-line, but the actual source the original wiki author cited says it that way too. Must have been a mistake in the transfer. Such a small thing, but, I think, a big difference.

Kami-causa sui (talk) 03:54, 3 December 2011 (UTC) Kami-Causa sui

Tragically yes, his own private little boastful record, that saw him dead within five days. From 18 straight poems to 18 straight doubles, in just 19 years. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:08, 19 January 2012 (UTC)