Talk:NATO: Difference between revisions

	NATO has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
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The map includes France who is not a NATO member. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.229.25.21 (talk) 02:32, 7 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

France has been a NATO member since the Treaty was signed in 1948. It did withdraw from the NATO military command structure in the 1960s, but that was not a withdrawal from the organisation. As you will see from Google News if you check, discussions are now underway to return France to the military command structure as well; they may assume command of Allied Command Transformation and Joint Command Lisbon. Regards Buckshot06(prof) 12:34, 7 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The map of NATO countries needs updated to reflect Albania and Croatia's membership. SpudHawg948 (talk) 20:57, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

They haven't joined yet, though. Buckshot06(prof) 18:36, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I know the map of Europe and North America were mashed together to make the map image look better (without a giant ocean between)... by why on Earth does Alaska appear to be as large as 50% of the continental USA?? Alaska may be our biggest state here in the USA, but it is not that huge! Who the heck made this map??

Probably a Mercator projection; distorts the size of land areas near the Poles. Buckshot06(prof) 05:17, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The article states that " the former Warsaw Pact states - except Albania - joining the alliance in 1999 and 2004", are we forgeting the de facto leader of the Warsaw Pact, Russia? While Latvia and Estonia are NATO members (and Georgia and Ukraine will likely become members); Russia, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan and other fmr Soviet Republics are not currently members of NATO. LCpl (talk) 01:41, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

He's got a good point there! Dharma6662000 (talk) 23:16, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Two maps within the article disagree on whether there is an independent state of Kosovo, or there is no. Also please consider the South Ossetia and Abkhazia with the same legal state as Kosovo (i.e. recognized by part of UN members). AFAIK, part of NATO members recognize K. as independent, part does not, and none of them recognizes A. and S.O. as independent. Here are the maps in question: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/NATO_expansion.png and http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Location_NATO.svg .FeelSunny (talk) 22:17, 19 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It would be really nice if we could have a picture of that statue of the NATO logo, the one with iron beams sticking out from it. It's a really impressive piece of industrial art, shame not to have any pictures of it here. Nastykermit (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 09:18, 17 December 2008 (UTC).[reply]

This needs to be updated. Alessandro Minuto Rizzo has been replaced in 2007 by Claudio Bisogniero, who helds this post up to date. (Sebecq (talk) 14:54, 18 December 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Confirmed: NATO biography of Bisogniero. Crystal whacker (talk) 14:57, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Updated, will add the other previous deputies to the list as well although will have to dig for nationality. Seems odd that theres been 3 Italians as deputy for over 14 years, anyone know why? BritishWatcher (talk) 15:11, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

{{editsemiprotected}} Please, since the appropriate page has been created in Wikipedia, I would kindly ask to redirect the links (both of tehm) of the:

paragraph 7 Organizations and Agencies Third to last bullet - the Research and Technology Agency (RTA),[57] reporting to the NATO Research and Technology Organization (RTO);

to the link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_Research_and_Technology_Organisation

Also, as according to the offical definition, I would suggest to change the spelling (in teh above mentioned lines and in the relevant reference at number 57) so to reduce ambiguity.

Thank you. ABwiki 19:11, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

 Done, thanks. I've also added a redirect to that article at NATO Research and Technology Organization so as to assist people who search with the other spelling of organisation. ~ mazca ^t|c 19:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

France has re-entered NATO's military command, so everything relating to it's withdrawal needs to be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.45.67 (talk) 12:06, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's not entirely true. Firstly, the official announcement is not yet been made, and second, all the material covering 1966 etc needs to stay; we just add some data saying that in 2009 France reentered and it seems that French officers will take command of Allied Command Transformation and Joint Command Lisbon. But we have to wait for the final formal announcement. - Buckshot06

Sarkozy's proposal must be debated by the French Parliament first, where it is expected pass next week. Regardless, the history will need to be revised.--Patrick «» 19:26, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The same way as the OECD was first established between Europe and America and later extended to Australia, Japan, South Korea, New Zealand and Mexico (Chile, Russia and Israel are candidates) it is expected for NATO to do the same including Australia, Japan, South Korea and probably Mexico. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.18.150.22 (talk) 04:10, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there, I've recently proposed a NATO Wikiproject to cover all things NATO. If you'd be interested in helping get one started, head over to the nomination page and voice your support. Cool3 (talk) 04:53, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is a notice "citation needed" for the following sentence:

Other potential candidate countries include Montenegro and Bosnia & Herzegovina.

I have found two links on NATO official web site to support this claim:

http://www.nato.int/issues/nato-montenegro/index.html

http://www.nato.int/issues/nato-bosnia-herzegovina/index.html

Ravenlord (talk) 02:11, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In this section Bosnia and Herzgegovina, FYR Macedonia, Montenegro and Serbia (all as part of Yugoslavia) were not "Other Cold War socialist economies" but "Militarily neutral Cold War socialist economies" because Yugoslavia was the founding member of the Non-Aligned Movement and never a part of the Eastern Bloc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.121.16.218 (talk) 14:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm thinking the History section is long enough could be split into a History of NATO article, with a new, perhaps simpler and more chronological, three to five paragraph summary of events used on this page. Thoughts? Anyone interested in creating this summary? I added an official Split Section Template. I also think this would help maintain Good Article status.--Patrick «» 17:29, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea, fully support the suggestion. BritishWatcher (talk) 17:43, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm on second thoughts if we did remove most of the history content and replaced it with 3-5 paragraphs i think this article might be too short. BritishWatcher (talk) 17:54, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, say 10-12, or what it takes. Right now there's 37 paragraphs over 11 subsections. We could try to balance a new section into Beginnings, Cold War, and Post-Cold War. Info on historic enlargements and maybe France's withdrawal could even be in the Membership section. Right now there's lots of good info in History, but some, say the paragraph about weapons gauges or Able Archer 83, are unnecessary for an overview.--Patrick «» 19:33, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have to disagree. Right now the page is 72k. Before I got on top of the bloat in March it was at times over 100k - 110 at times. I think we can keep adding relevant sourced material - and there's masses missing - until we reach 90k at least. Then we can think about it again. This is also because at some point we'll need Hist of NATO 1948-60s maybe, 60s-1990/91, and Post Cold War/War on Terror whatever we call it. Lets not split without a plan. Thoughts? Buckshot06(prof) 21:19, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

According to Interfax/BNS/Postimees, 58% of Russians have a negative attitude towards NATO. Interestingly, at the same time, NATO's nature is not well known in Russia: for example, 31% of the population thinks NATO's mission consists of "aggressive actions towards other countries". 34% have no idea what NATO is.

Source: Postimees 3 April 2009 13:56: Venelased ei salli NATOt, kuigi ei tea, mis see on. Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 13:46, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's fair to say that "aggressive actions towards other countries" are indeed part of NATO's mission. See for example, what they did in Serbia or what the are doing in Afganistan. Or what was their reaction to the 2008 South Ossetia war was. Offliner (talk) 20:51, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lets not get dragged into pointless political arguments guys. Writers in Chelyabinsk will have different attitudes to writers in Rio, or Sydney, or Lahore, or whatever. Maybe we should add the data above, but not POV posturing. Regards to all, Buckshot06(prof) 21:22, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I see bits and pieces of this throughout the article, but there should be a section dealing with the criticism of NATO and enlargement. Most of the article is to the point of being boistrous. MPA146.235.130.52 (talk) 14:56, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Look at Enlargement of NATO. That's the place for enlargement discussions. Controversy and criticism should not be separate but in the relevant section. Buckshot06(prof) 16:22, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Buckshot06. BritishWatcher (talk) 17:31, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Other articles about various subjects and organizations have their own criticism/controversy section and this seems appropriate here as well. This is because sometimes there is a collective argument and because sometimes the scale of the criticism is noteworthy itself (i.e. when tens of thousands riot and burn the French/German border in protest). --Nihilozero (talk) 09:30, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It doesnt need its own section, the criticism should be included in each of the sections covered. So killing of civilians in Afghanistan covered in the ISAF section etc. There should however be a section or atleast a few sentences talking about NATO summits, and that could include a mention that they often draw large crowds of scum who protest and turn violent. BritishWatcher (talk) 10:29, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism / controversy should always be integrated into the article as a whole. Splitting it to its own section inevitably reduces the quality and neutrality of an article. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:09, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I see the article has gone over to US spelling. Considering NATO was set up by the British and itself uses UK spelling this is rather puzzling, especially as the article itself was originally in UK English. Presumably there'll by no objection if I now change US spelling to UK ones in any articles I come across.

NATO uses the spelling "Organization" not "Organisation", look at its website. -- Dougie WII (talk) 19:50, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

enjoy your loss of sovereignty and nationalism. your leaders have sold you out. 199.117.69.8 (talk) 18:56, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]