WikiFocus

The purpose of WikiFocus is to describe everything related to Wiki technology (wikis and their members, wiki softwares and their capabilities, etc.). Meta-Wiki also describes wikis, but only belonging to the Wikimedia Foundation or planed to join to Wikimedia and not really for informational purposes. And there is not articles about users at all.

The creation of the most of such articles in Wikipedia is impossible because it will break the notability rule. But WikiFocus may and should contain such articles.

The wiki have been created already. Creator of it is Vladimir Medeyko. There are 472 articles in WikiFocus now. The wiki's URL is http://wikifocus.org/ now and it's good because it match corresponds to its name.

So far it is available only in Russian and Ukrainian languages, but jointly we'll organize the others language versions. --Maxtirdatov (talk) 20:26, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Make WikiFocus open: anonymous users cannot edit pages of project now, and for registration you should to contact administrator and talk with him/her. Such projects cannot be WMF's, so we must be ready to open it.
• Make WikiFocus multilingual: jointly we can create some basic language version. English, for example. The others will create in the Wikimedia Incubator. By the same, there is Ukrainian articles in WikiFocus, but there is not Ukrainin website version: WikiFocus has namespaces "uk:", "Обговорення:", "ВiкiФокус:" and "Обговорення ВiкiФокуса:", but I think any language needs "under-domain" (http://uk.wikifocus.org/, for example).
• WMF's wikis have vector design by default, and I think WikiFocus should it, too. I think it easy to setup, but don't know how and can't do it. --Maxtirdatov (talk) 22:57, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps the name of the wiki is not very suited it. If you want the wiki's name to be another, you can propose the new name here, but I think the founder of the wiki would not like to rename the project like me. And perhaps the word "Focus" should be written with a lowercase letter. --Maxtirdatov (talk) 20:26, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• WikisWiki (http://wikiswiki.org/) --Maxtirdatov (talk) 13:10, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Wiki about Wiki (Wiki about wiki, WAW, http://wikiaboutwiki.org/) --Maxtirdatov (talk) 13:10, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Wiki about Wikis (Wiki about wikis, WAW, http://wikiaboutwikis.org/) --Maxtirdatov (talk) 13:10, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• WikiWorld (Wikiworld, domain http://wikiworld.org/ has occupied already  ) --Maxtirdatov (talk) 13:10, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• WikisWorld (Wikisworld, http://wikisworld.org/) --Maxtirdatov (talk) 13:10, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Wikidossier (WikiDossier, domain http://wikidossier.org/ has occupied already  ) --Maxtirdatov (talk) 13:10, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong   Oppose. Everything (and everyone) that notable enought to be described neutral enought can be described in Wikipedia itself. Everything else will be non-neutral, and have a lot of original research, and such project will be used as hosting for attack-pages, as already happens with the same-goals-project wikireality.ru -- Vlsergey (talk) 08:47, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
•   Oppose per Vlsergey. AndyVolykhov (talk) 08:55, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  Russian: ВикиФокус предерживается нейтральности, а наличие оригинальных исследований (которых в нашем проекте, по моему нет) — не аргумент для того, чтобы он не был проектом Фонда. Например, Викиновости могут содержать оригинальные исследования — такие новости там называются оригинальными репортажами. В любом случае, в нашем проекте я оригинальных иссделований не наблюдаю. А что касается Викиреальности - наш проект был создан из-за несогласия некоторых её участников с ненеётральностью и оскорблениями в адрес описываемых объектов и субъектов в этой «энциклопедии». --Maxtirdatov (talk) 10:21, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  While it is possible to archive some point on per-sentence neutrality basing on primary sources, only secondary sources can give enough base for per-section or per-article neutrality, as specified in ru:ВП:ВЕС rule. If such sources exist then article can be created in Wikipedia itself. If none of such secondary sources exist, it would not be neutral enough in any kind of project, unless it is bot generated. (And in latest case we can just generate per-user cards using toolserver) -- Vlsergey (talk) 12:31, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  WikiFocus must not use every Wikipedian rule. Yeah, I think any WMF's project should have neutrality texts, but every wiki has its own purpose that determine, must this project has secondary sources. Articles, backed them, can live in Wikipedia, but WikiFocus is place and for others. Sources in WikiFocus is wikipages, diffs and dependent web pages. --Maxtirdatov (talk) 14:14, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  It's not just a community-forced rule, but rather a required principle to create and provide neutral and precise content. Usage of secondary source is a must-be principle for every human-edited-content project (who wants to be neutral). There are exceptions like wikidata, where content may be based on primary sources. But such content is required to be fit in very strict per-item form and neutrality of single item (article) is preserved by such limitation. -- Vlsergey (talk) 15:00, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  То, что проект является энциклопедическим справочником ещё не значит, что он обязан придерживаться принципов Википедии. Если бы это было не так, в его существование не было бы никакого sense))) Потому что тогда написанные в нём статьи могли бы помещаться в Википедию, а тех, которые незначимы для Википедии в соответствие с консенсусом сообщества, было бы очень мало. Проект описывает историю вики-проектов, вики-движков, участия участников, даёт прочую информацию о них, опираясь на диффы, вики-страницы и их старые версии. В описаниях вики-движков и вики-проектов при отсутствие информации в вики-проектах или если информация в википроектах-источников дублирует указанную в примечаниях, указываются вторичные источники (во втором случае указанные в проектах). --Maxtirdatov (talk) 16:23, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  Если, если... Я чётко указал, что неследование этим принципам создаст ненейтральный и неточный источник информации, который не будет следовать принципу "каждая правка улучшает", как это работает в Википедии. А раз так, я не вижу причин, по которым фонду нужен подобный проект. -- Vlsergey (talk) 17:04, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  Ссылки на диффы и страницы вклада в конкретный промежуток времени в статьях об участниках, к примеру, неточный источник истории их участия? --Maxtirdatov (talk) 08:25, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong oppose, see my comments on the talk page.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:55, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  I am sure disrespect to founder of the wiki is not argument for negative vote. Of course, I am sorry. You have not given any reasoned argument. --Maxtirdatov (talk) 11:10, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  That is good that you are sorry. First, I decide what is an argument for my vote and not you. Second, in my explanation I did not even mention Mr. Medeyko. Of course when he immediately showed up to repeat for the hundredth time that I hate him so much that I can not see anything, I had to respond to him. But Wikifocus should not be a sister project not because of Mr. Medeyko, but because it has an excellent potential for outing.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:16, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  I don't know what you keep in mind, but when WikiFocus open we'll create a rule that will prohibit blocked users insult did it administrator. Maybe you talk about it. --Maxtirdatov (talk) 11:25, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  Please stop using automatic translate tools, some of your messages are unintelligible. I already provided this link at the discussion page. It shows very clearly how the project can be used for outing, and what is the vision of its founder in this respect.--Ymblanter (talk) 15:24, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  It is your own opinion. In fact it is not the case. --Maxtirdatov (talk) 16:41, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  Well, no, this is not my opinion. I did not participate in that discussion, and I did not suggest other users to collect all the diffs they do not like about a particular administrator and to publish this garbage in the project. I just merely pointed out that this activity is known as outing (and also canvassing, but this is a different story).--Ymblanter (talk) 16:48, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  Canvassing of what? --Maxtirdatov (talk) 17:02, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  It is clear from the discussion (not only from you replies to me, but also to other users) that you often do not really know what you are talking about. Would you please familiarize yourself with the policies. If you unable to do it yourself may be you need a mentor.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:05, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  Я прекрасно знаю, о чём я говорю, а что касается наставника — обойдусь и без него. --Maxtirdatov (talk) 08:28, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• IMHO, Meta is to save father of Russian democracy. I believe, attack-like comments are normal on wikianalitic-wikipolitic sites, if you have hurt somewhere, just don't read about yourself, word must be free; but some people are very fond of running to court to grab some money from everyone who discusses them, so such projects should be created anonymously on free hostings, far away from main Fond's content repositories. Ignatus (talk) 10:12, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
•   Oppose The project often uses original research based on personal conjecture about the motives of people who are not reliably prove or disprove. Some of these findings is contained in the project, are not reliable and are actually attack-pages. --Wanderer777 (talk) 11:18, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Несмотря на то, что голосовал я за в верхнем столбике только ради сброса диктатуры кое-кого, покажите мне, пожалуйста, где перечисленное вами здесь. И страницы-нападки тоже приведите, пожалуйста. Родина вас не забудет. Saint Johann (ru) 12:47, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • У меня нет особого желания указывать на то что там нужно исправить, разбирайтесь сами. Но даже здесь сразу, в первом же утверждении о моих первых правках имеется недостоверное оригинальное исследование, а затем делается неверное (и даже именно attack-page) предположение. Т.к. всё равно не догадаетась, даю подсказку - если видите странности с первыми правками, нужно смотреть удалённые правки, а вот с неверным предположением сложнее - его нельзя ни подтвердить, ни опровергнуть. --Wanderer777 (talk) 13:08, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Вы правда считаете предположение о наличии опыта анонимного редактирования личными нападками?! Может, наличие такого опыта нарушает какие-то правила? А то я уж беспокоиться начал, у меня самого опыт анонимного редактирования есть. Что же до сомнительных предположений, то они много где есть, в том числе и в вашей реплике, на к��торую я сейчас отвечаю (это всё, разумеется, не отменяет того, что таких предположений надо избегать, а также того, что Викифокусу лучше не становиться проектом WMF как минимум в обозримом будущем). Altes (talk) 13:24, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • Я правда считаю, что если я отрицаю опыт анонимного редактирования, то это фактически было обвинеие во лжи и предлог для некоторых неадекватов фантазировать о кукловодстве. Я считаю недопустимым раскрытие непубличной информации, особенно, если учасники недвусмысленно возражают против упоминаний их реальных фамилий. Да даже просто публикация этой информации из приватных источников - может стать поводом для судебного преследования. --Wanderer777 (talk) 15:34, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
          • Во-первых, Вы (я думаю) не допустили бы никаких нарушений при анонимном редактирование, так что это никакое не обвинение. Во-вторых, что Вас смущает в публикации реальных имени и фамилии? Если что, указанное в карточках не ищиться поисковыми системами, так как буквы являются изображениями. Да и вообще, публикя свои ФИО в проектах Фонда Викимедиа, он разрешает использовать их на условиях указанной лицензии. --Maxtirdatov (talk) 16:57, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
            • • Во-первых, часть фамилий взяты из приватных источников, во-вторых, некоторые участники разгласили свои фамилии, но они против их публичной публикации; в-третьих, "изображения" сделаны настолько корявым способом, что не представляет труда сделать соответствие Участник-Фамилия даже ботом (кто вообще придумал эти подстраницы?). --Wanderer777 (talk) 18:17, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
                • I would be grateful if you list the names in question in order to allow us to fix mistakes if they are confirmed. Thank you in advance! Dr Bug (Vladimir V. Medeyko) 21:27, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
                  • Vladimir, I've already said above, I have no desire for your project. But unless you do not know that Victoria and aGra protest against any mention of their surnames? Or do you not see that your special rule (http://wikifocus.org/wiki/Правило:Персоналии) does not work? Do you not understand that the phrase "noted a radical ideological positions" - diffomatsiya as "noted" that users, which permanently blocked and in Russian and in English Wikipedia and there is no evidence for this assertion? Sorry, this is your project and your problems. --Wanderer777 (talk) 11:37, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
          • Вы ушли от ответа на вопрос. Мы обсуждали не наличие потенциально дискредитирующей информации, не информации, дающей поводы для "неадекватов", не слабообоснованных неподтверждённых догадок (или вы сомневаетесь, что всё это можно найти и в Википедии, и почти где угодно?), а статей-нападок, то есть статей, которые exists primarily to disparage or threaten its subject. Как вы понимаете, предположение о том, что статья, написанная в целом в нейтральном ключе одним из добронамеренных и конструктивных участников Википедии (согласно информации из публично логируемого чата ВФ, автор статьи - Deinocheirus), была создана специально для того, чтобы оскорбить или дискредитировать вас, - это очень сильное предположение, которое вам едва ли удастся подтвердить (а если считаете, что можете подтвердить, то будьте уж последовательны, поставьте вопрос о блокировке её автора в руВики). И до тех пор, пока вы его не подтвердили, получается, что это вы здесь и сейчас занимаетесь если не нападками, то распространением сомнительных догадок, прямо дискредитирующих участника Deinocheirus и косвенно всех участников Викифокуса. Причём статья Викифокуса отредактирована с учётом высказанных вами претензий, а вот исправите ли вы утверждение о наличии в Викифокусе статей, главной целью существования которых являются оскорбления и угрозы, - большой вопрос. Altes (talk) 03:35, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • So, it was unobserved mistake. I hope, our project community and me will verify articles and clean such mistakes if they are there. --Maxtirdatov (talk) 14:33, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • В любом случае, я считаю, что подобное высказывание не является ОРИССом, на мой взгляд, это сложение обстоятельств. --Maxtirdatov (talk) 14:52, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose for the above reasons. MaxBioHazard (talk) 12:02, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong   Oppose. What useful content that can not be published on other WMF sites can be published on WikiFocus? For notable wikis we may use Wikipedia, for wiki software MediaWiki already exists and has probably the most detailed information than anywhere else. The only difference are site that are not notable for the specific language version (something strange in my opinion, which can be especially strange if notability criteria are different in different language versions and in some Wikipedias the site will be not notable and thus eligible for WikiFocus only, and in some other Wikipedias the site will be notable, and thus we will have two parallel articles with similar content) and wiki-users (I can hardly imagine a WMF project with articles on users of WMF projects written by other users for WMF projects, it is not just a question of NPOV, it is at least a problem of ethics). Thus I can't see what is the use for WMF to include this site — NickK (talk) 12:40, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  «What useful content that can not be published on other WMF sites can be published on WikiFocus?» — считаю это высказывание абсолютно некорректным. Во-первых, недопустимость написания статей в других проектах не является обоснованием для того, чтобы голосовать против, IMHO. Во-вторых, если не надо создавать проекты, описывающие то, что нельзя описать в других, какой вообще смысл существования этой страницы? Ведь разве нам нужны проекты с содержанием, которое может быть в других проектах Фонда Викимедиа? --Maxtirdatov (talk) 16:04, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  Если вы посмотрите на остальные предложения, то, как правило, они предлагают либо нечто совершенно не освещённое в Википедии и других проектах Фонда (например, OpenMeetings.org), либо нечто освещённое в других проектах, но описанное совершенно иначе (например, Wikivoyage). Вы же предлагаете описывать сайты абсолютно так же, как это делает Википедия (следовательно, этот проект будет иметь ценность только для сайтов, незначимых для Википедии), а также описывать деятельность пользователей сайтов Фонда на сайте самого Фонда (что, на мой взгляд, не совпадает с целями Фонда и не имеет никакой ценности для построннего читателя — скажем, вам интересно будет читать на русском статью об администраторе немецкого Викисловаря?). Следовательно, я не вижу нового ценного материала для Фонда

  If you look at other proposals, usually they propose either something completely new which is not described in WMF projects by te moment (e.g. OpenMeetings.org) or to describe something already available in other WMF projects, but in a completely different way (e.g. Wikivoyage). You propose to describe websites exactly like in Wikipedia (thus it will be useful only for sites not considered notable for Wikipedia) and to werite about WMF users on a WMF website (which, in my opinion, does not meet the mission of WMF and is useless for average reader — are you interested in article in Russian about, say, a sysop of German Wiktionary?). Thus I see no valuable material which can be added to WMF wikis — NickK (talk) 17:45, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose per Vlsergey. In addition. Yes, Wikinews allows original work under the form of original reporting and interviews: but they are generally based on outside and reliable sources. Wikifocus articles about wikipedians are generally based on inside/wikipedia sources. Alex Spade (talk) 12:52, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, guys! Please give an example of not neutral content in WikiFocus. --Maxtirdatov (talk) 13:14, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• "Ghirlandajo" -- not precise in several points, since based on primary sources without generalization (i.e. "significant omission"). Drbug -- everything about problems with AC is missing from article ("significant omission" again), "Yaroslav Blanter" - "ex-member..." -- lol, what? Maxtirdatov -- "по собственному утверждению — не курит, не ругается матом, любит сладкое " -- is it neutral? One more point for someone, who doesn't distinguish "positive only" and "neutral". For neutrality we need to add negative things to project. And I personally believe, any kind of "pro" having such information will not override having "contra" conflicts all across ru-projects. -- Vlsergey (talk) 15:08, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• "Alex Spade" -- what is it about? Is it about real me (real person) or about my activity under Alex Spade nickname in ru-wiki (and wikimedia projects)? The article was created after April-1 incident and as I see only for description of respective incident - that action is very typical for attack page. Are there data about my activity in other Wikimedia projects? Are there more detailed data about both ru-wiki-incidents and ru-wiki-work with my participation and collaboration? The article asserts that I am on indefinite wiki-vacation since April 1. This is false, outdated statement. That wiki-vacation is over. My current indefinite wiki-vacation has another reason. The article asserts that Alex Spade is always very serious. "Always" is typical no-neutral word. The article asserts that I am copyright expert. I am not. I takes a great interest to copyright and intellectual property only. Alex Spade (talk) 16:45, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• WikiFocus uses critical POVs selectively. They uses my critical POV for articles "OpenGlobe" (without first clause on September 17, 2011) and "Russian Wikipedia Cluster Conflict", but they does not use my very POV (without first clause) about theirself (on September 19, 2011). Alex Spade (talk) 17:10, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Since apparently legends are spread in Russian Wikipedia that Drbug was not involved with this proposal - well, this proves that he really was. Not that I care so much about Russian Wikipedia, but there are multiple legends spread there - another one is for instance that Wikimedia.ru does not participate in WMF funding scheme because of the Russian prohibitive law. In fact, it does not participate in the WMF funding scheme because it was ruled to be ineligible for funding due to the failure of reporting on time (and it was ruled as such before the law was adopted). Most of what is written in Russian Wikipedia about meta business is sheer bullshit.--Ymblanter (talk) 16:59, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Anonymous trolling deleted, link --178.94.133.241 18:45, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  Судя по утончённой интеллектуальности вашего комментария, убогие у вас не только "знания английского" :) --Postoronniy-13 (talk) 22:59, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Strongly   Support. Feels like this is the project wiki needs in the most. When users would be able to describe and honour other significant members, that would become a very good inducement to work for wiki more. Let wiki users write their own history for themselves!--Mikhail V. (talk) 18:58, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Admin note: Edits to this page are this user's only edits. Thehelpfulone 19:30, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • So what? I've been active in Russian Wikipedia and know beverybody who expressed their opinions here.--Mikhail V. (talk) 19:33, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • ...and have been blocked there as a sockpuppet of user:Ole Førsten, who is indefinitely blocked as a troll in ru.wp and here. AndyVolykhov (talk) 20:16, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • Actually this is a disclosure of the private information, since checkusers have never published any details of my check. I don't know where did you get this information from, but it's a very serious violation of privacy policy.--Mikhail V. (talk) 20:47, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
          • The fact that you are a sockpuppet is private information? Bwahaha. Source: ru:Арбитраж:Заявка о разблокировке Ole Førsten AndyVolykhov (talk) 07:26, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: As a reviewing member of the Sister Projects Committee, I'm having a look at this proposal. Thus far I'm struggling to understand how this proposed project is in line with the rest of the mission of the Wikimedia Foundation projects. I feel that we do not need a project that is a directory of wikis or "wiki softwares", indeed we have our own MediaWiki site which provides a lot of information on the MediaWiki software, and I imagine other "wiki softwares" will have documentation. Also, please can you explain what information you aim to provide about "members" of said wikis? Best, Thehelpfulone 19:30, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks for undertaking this task. If you need to translate smth from Russian, I would be happy to help.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:39, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  I consider this project as a rather supplimentary one, like Meta. It's a project of documenting Wikimedia/Wiki/Mediawiki phenomenon that changed the world we live in. Wikimedia Foundation undertakes numerous attempts to document history of the Wikimedia projects and to research, what is the driving force that made this phenomemon possible - and Wikifocus is an attempt like this as well. We are interested in achievements, not faults; and we wish to provide information that would allow readers and researchers to understand what forms the beautiful and challenging wiki-world. I personally think, it's a bit early to discuss any integration of Wikifocus into Wikimedia umbrella (however, I will follow the community decision any time), but I would be happy to discuss the ideas behind the project if you are interested! Dr Bug (Vladimir V. Medeyko) 21:19, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Господа, я в некотором роде тоже участник ВФ, и относительно активный - но создание этой страницы (если играть в благородных девиц - "как минимум преждевременное и непродуманное", если без этих глупостей - дурацкое) со мной согласовано не было :)) Ну, кто меня неплохо знает, вспомнит мою любимую цитатку из Платонова. --Postoronniy-13 (talk) 23:03, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Being one of rather active "WikiFocus" users, I suggest to close the discussion because the proposal certainly has not full support within WikiFocus community and there are some oppose comments on this page (I agree with them not entirely, but they certainly deserve attention). -- Postoronniy-13 (talk) 23:24, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  Also, I thank for constructive criticism of the project; yes, for now it's underdeveloped and requires serious improvement, maybe some day later the project will become considerably better :) But idea to make it WMF "sister project" probably will not be a good idea - because of some reasons - at that time too :). --Postoronniy-13 (talk) 23:59, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Стирание комментариев людей, которые высказались против ВикиФокуса людьми, которые поддерживают ВикиФокус, не в пользу этого сайта. --94.179.244.91 12:58, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Стирание сказанного одним из Natur'ов анонимного троллинга есть поддержание дискуссии на том уровне, чтобы она не превратилась в ужас. Saint Johann (ru) 13:05, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • О каких Natur'ах Вы сейчас говорите?--94.179.244.91 13:32, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong   Support. Very useful project. New Wikitruth. Serebr (talk) 19:37, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• What a nice list of supporters - four indefinely blocked in ru.wp, one former admin of ru.wp deprived even of autoreviewer rights, three losers of last Arbitration Commettee elections of ru.wp with support level <20%... AndyVolykhov (talk) 20:37, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  This "support" at current situation is either trolling (by first group of "supporters") or foolishness (second group), it's clear :) --Postoronniy-13 (talk) 23:54, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  We're neither. We're errand boys sent by grocery clerks to collect a bill.

  Seriously though, I'm not a politician to refrain from saying what I think because it may produce opposite effect. When I support something, I just say so. I think that's pretty fair and consistent with traditional way of inwiki discussion. AstroNomer-ru (talk) 22:45, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong   Oppose A wiki is just another program--92.202.26.147 16:35, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]