Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Argon (Middle-earth)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete (and redirect to List of Middle-earth Elves#Argon). Redirects are cheap. Black Kite (talk) 18:19, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Argon (Middle-earth)

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Very, very minor character (indeed just a name), one reference (his name) appears in The Peoples of Middle-earth. GimliDotNet^{(Speak to me,Stuff I've done)} 11:46, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Per WP:NOTPAPER we have space aplenty for minor topics. The worst case is that we'd merge with some larger topic such as House of Finwë. See this biography which shows what can be made of the topic. Warden (talk) 13:15, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NOTPAPER cannot trump WP:RS and WP:NOTABLE GimliDotNet^{(Speak to me,Stuff I've done)} 14:58, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The reliability of the sourcing is not in question here so your point is a non-sequitur. If you want more policies which support retention, please see WP:PRESERVE, WP:ATD and WP:BURO. My !vote stands. Warden (talk) 15:54, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The WP:RS comment was aimed at the silmarillion writers guild link above. GimliDotNet^{(Speak to me,Stuff I've done)} 17:34, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That seems to be a reliable source, being provided with good citations and being peer-reviewed. The content mostly seems to be based upon the researches of Christopher Tolkien who is a reliable source upon his father's work. There's nothing here but the usual hatred of fiction and that reminds me of yet another policy — WP:CENSOR. Warden (talk) 17:52, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, Christopher in this case would be a WP:PRIMARY source. I also don't appreciate your insinuation that this is a case of WP:IDONTLIKE, a simple perusal of my edit history would show the exact contrary, I would appreciate if you could withdraw that. GimliDotNet^{(Speak to me,Stuff I've done)} 18:17, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That article is mostly about (1) how he died (necessitating a whole new battle to be inserted) (2) how his insertion impacts the story (not really about him anyway, it's more about the adding of the Battle of the Lammoth) and (3) a rather disproportionately long analysis of a not-even-one-line description of him "[he] was the tallest of the brothers [the sons of Fingolfin] and the most impetuous", which kind of shows how he himself is not really important in the story (he dies too soon). But he would probably have to get mentioned when discussing the part of the story his insertion necessitated changing of, so it would not be a great idea to delete his article completely. Also keeping it as a redirect renders it consistent with all the other non-notable Elves who make appearances on List of Middle-earth Elves. Double sharp (talk) 14:53, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:11, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:11, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Imagine that the fictional character Argon was instead named "Hubert McMurray Bumphrey" and that this were a family tree for the real life Bumphrey clan, given the same level of sourcing. Would this have taken longer than 5 minutes to speedily delete on the grounds that there is no assertion of importance and that Wikipedia is not a genealogy repository? Calling this a "very, very minor character" of the Tolkien opus is probably shorting him about two verys... Utter failure of GNG and no matter how low the special notability bar is placed for fictional characters, this isn't gonna get over that either... Carrite (talk) 15:21, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Wikipedia is not a directory of every name mentioned briefly in every notable fictional work. Fails WP:N. Merger to an article about the work or the author is inappropriate, since that would give undue weight. Edison (talk) 15:43, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I love Tolkien's stories, but this is not them -- or a directory to them. Kitfoxxe (talk) 16:26, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above, and might I add WP:CRUFT? Ansh666 21:31, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Speak up, Argon, in thine own defense! Shame not thy noble family; tell us of thy fell deeds and secure thyself an honoured seat in the Halls of Mandos. What? No reaction? Alas, twas ever so; it is in his nature. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:36, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- 'Cries' that was amzaing. Ansh666 01:40, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thank you. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:18, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    - Groan.
      I have been beginning to pronounce the noble gas' name with the full (not reduced) "o" vowel sound as if I were referring to this guy; is this bad? :-) Double sharp (talk) 14:42, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    - Hmm, come to think of it, we should have a Fingon and Turgon on the periodic table, now that you've given the discoverers of element 118 the excuse to abuse IUPAC naming conventions like this. (Provided they are hardcore Tolkien fans, that is.) Double sharp (talk) 15:00, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect. Nothing wrong with the title; he'll fit fine as a redirect to House of Finwë. However, I solidly agree that this guy doesn't deserve a separate article anywhere except at something specialising in the Matter of Arda. Nyttend (talk) 03:00, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Golly. There's major characters. There's secondary characters. There's minor characters. There's really minor characters. And then, somewhere far off in the distance, there's this guy. Tolkien's work is obviously extremely notable, but that doesn't mean we can or should have a seperate article for every single capitalised word in said work. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 03:22, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Selective merge to List of Middle-earth Elves. This article has one (primary) reference, the entry there gives much of the information here but currently has no references at all. And, while a character who appeared in just a couple of late Tolkien fragments certainly doesn't justify a standalone article, they are still likely to get enough passing mentions elsewhere that a redirect to somewhere on Wikipedia where they are mentioned is probably a good idea. PWilkinson (talk) 15:21, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I added the only source here to that article already. Double sharp (talk) 14:46, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of Middle-earth Elves#Argon, per all the other non-notable Elves with short entries there. Everything in this article is already there. Why do we need an article on this particular Finwëan anyway? All he ever did was heroically (and amazingly early – although I guess Amras holds the record) get himself killed. Double sharp (talk) 14:42, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- My choice of redirect and not delete is because while he didn't do anything, his insertion did necessitate some changes in the story, which are much more notable (and in fact already are in Dagor-nuin-Giliath), and would definitely reference him. Double sharp (talk) 14:53, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.