Talk:Lie

This article has been mentioned by a media organization: "People lie more on the phone than by email". NewScientist.com. February 12, 2004.

I don't think telling the truth should be equated with lieing. I prefer to reduce ambiguity. Observer

Good invention good intention We canot lie to god cause he knows he put the serpent beneth us so we are to be wiser than that dirty devil Jesus said hold fast till I return to deceive the devil himself is not a lie care for a hand of Dandee Lion lyin dandee Can somebody suggest an example of how telling the truth could be a "lie if the intention is to deceive"? I am unable to think of one. Also, I am not aware that selective truth-telling is actually the same as lying, for example, if I go to the shops and buy some bread and some bananas, and I say "I went and bought some bread" that is not telling the whole truth, but it would be hard to call it a lie. LordK 21:34, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Sure. Let's say a militant vegetarian asks you, "Did you have any meat for lunch today?" Seeking to avoid a confrontation, you say, "I had a salad," when in fact you had a salad with chicken in it. On its face, your statement is true -- you did have a salad -- but you are saying it with intent to deceive, because the usual interpretation of "salad" is a dish with vegetables only. It is a white lie, of sorts -- a lie by omission, by telling a truth whilst expecting that the hearer's wrong assumptions will lead him to a false conclusion. --FOo 23:31, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC)

OK, that is certainly relevant, it is just that I would not refer to that as an actual lie - perhaps a half-truth or "clever trick" - and likewise I would not refer to somebody who behaves that way as a liar. It is certainly appropriate to mention it in the article, I am just not sure that it should be defined as a "type of lie". LordK 14:32, 14 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Sure, it's a doubtful point. I think Immanuel Kant would consider it a lie, though. :) --FOo 16:01, 14 Aug 2003 (UTC)

If you make the statement about salad in the knowledge that it will mislead the other person ... then though it's technically true, it's dishonest. It's also not answering the question: "Did you have any meat for lunch today?" seeks a yes or no response -- Tarquin 16:30, 14 Aug 2003 (UTC)

[Wikitonary] has as one of its definitions of to lie: "intentionally allowing someone else, who has a right to know the whole truth, believe (trough action or inaction) something else then the whole truth." -- gmlk 06:04, Sep 22, 2004 (UTC)

I removed the link to George W. Bush. This site should not be used to promote a political agenda. -Librarian Brent

is it a political agenda to describe the objective fact that George W. Bush lied about WMD, drug use, and his National Guard service? I, for one, in the interests of accuracy and completeness think both Bill Clinton and Bush should have at least a paragraph each describing their lies, but nooooo. Wikipedia's overly delicate sense of political correctness borders on the ridiculous.

Why is it when I link to "White Lie" I have to capitalize the W and L or the link doesn't go to the proper article otherwise? --NeoThe1

Personally, I wouldn't say that propaganda neccesarily is composed only of lies. Wouldn't it hypothetically be possible that some group posses the "truth" (if there is such) and use propoganda techniques to disseminate it?

The most commonly cited milestone in the rising of this, what is known as Machiavellian intelligence, is at the human age of about four and a half years, when children begin to be able to lie convincingly. Before this, they seem simply unable to comprehend that anyone doesn't see the same view of events that they do - and seem to assume that there is only one point of view - their own - that must be integrated into any given story.

Remarkably, some adults seem to regress to this behaviour with remarkable ease, especially when editing encyclopedias. :-) JRM 16:17, 2004 Dec 27 (UTC)

Why wa I redirected to this page following a search for 'prevarication'?

Because "prevarication" is a synonym for "lying" or "lie". [1] JRM 13:53, 2005 Jan 1 (UTC)

In the case of the Iraq war, for instance, the fact that lies escalated a conflict may have made it a quite serious breach of trust and betrayal of those who would suffer in that conflict. However, anyone who accepts as true the assertion that the regime in place was an inevitable threat to those who perished fighting it, or whose lives are at risk in the aftermath of the invasion, would be far less likely to consider escalating the conflict at the most convenient time to be any kind of betrayal. The perspective of the common sense conservative quite often relies on this kind of assumption of certainty. But if conflicts that are to be escalated are chosen due to some ideology, it is hard to see how this differs from simple might makes right logic.

How can this paragraph possibly be appropriate for a supposedly non-biased encyclopedia?

No mention of Bush, Blair and Aznar? Because of the lack of mention of these atlantic dictators, the wikipedia lie article is a lie itself...

There is also no mention of Pinocchio? I guess his nose is deemed a fallic object and censored off the wikipedia by the FCC...

for some reason, this article has no reference at all to the Big Lie tradition being carried on by Rush Limbaugh et al, a very strange omission, imho.

Very convoluted sentences:

the fact that lies escalated a conflict may have made it a quite serious breach of trust and betrayal of those who would suffer in that conflict. However, anyone who accepts as true the assertion that the regime in place was an inevitable threat to those who perished fighting it, or whose lives are at risk in the aftermath of the invasion, would be far less likely to consider escalating the conflict at the most convenient time to be any kind of betrayal

Someone (who understands what author is trying to say) should edit.

In my experience, the primary reason why most people lie is that they are ashamed of something--an action, an omission to act, a family member, a set of circumstances--and wish to conceal it, because they cannot cope with the brute ugliness of reality.. Whether or not such shame is justified or not is another issue. To avoid becoming ensnared in a web of ever more elaborate deceit, it is necessary a) to avoid false pride, which induces one to feel shame over and thus lie about one's wealth, family background, sexual prowess, academic and/or vocational achievements, etc; b) to refrain from behaving in a shameful manner, whether by commission or omission. None of this is easy. Perhaps the most difficult words to utter in the English language are "I was wrong," "I made a mistake," "I failed," or "I didn't try hard enough." --Bamjd3d

Is it possible for someone to be clinically diagnosed as a liar? If so what is the term for the "disease"?

I have removed that second paragraph from the quoted work as being entirely irrelevant and polemic. It is one thing to include a discussion of the framework for determining what is or is not a lie by using a commonly understood context. It is quite something else to make gratuitous political arguments. To those who loudly wail about the neutrality policy, I point out that the only way this encyclopedia gains general acceptance is by that very studied approach to finding neutral ground. Otherwise, this page just becomes an extention of the dopiness that can be found on the Kos and equally ignored.