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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by DeCausa (talk | contribs) at 21:43, 27 September 2022 (→Republic of Türkiye: r). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Former featured articleTurkey is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on March 4, 2007.
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December 21, 2006Good article nomineeListed
January 9, 2007Featured article candidatePromoted
December 20, 2011Featured article reviewDemoted
August 11, 2014Good article nomineeListed
September 15, 2014Peer reviewReviewed
March 6, 2015Featured article candidateNot promoted
May 27, 2017Peer reviewNot reviewed
May 20, 2019Good article reassessmentDelisted
May 8, 2020Peer reviewReviewed
On this day... Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on October 29, 2005, October 29, 2011, October 29, 2012, October 29, 2013, October 29, 2014, October 29, 2015, October 29, 2016, and October 29, 2017.
Current status: Former featured article

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Requested move 20 January 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved per WP:SNOW (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 19:35, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Turkey → Türkiye – The country has changed its English name to Türkiye. 2600:6C5A:657F:D1F5:48D3:2853:9745:8762 (talk) 03:20, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Won't happen as everyone will keep referring to them as Turkey! Vif12vf/Tiberius (talk) 03:27, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RfC on the official name of the country in the lede

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: There's consensus for Option 1. Among the cited arguments is that the country's name has not been officially changed at the UN. (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 17:04, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]



Which of the following two should be the article's lede sentence?

  1. Turkey (Template:Lang-tr [ˈtyɾcije]), officially the Republic of Turkey (Template:Lang-tr [ˈtyɾcije dʒumˈhuːɾijeti] ⓘ)
  2. Turkey (Template:Lang-tr [ˈtyɾcije]), officially the Republic of Türkiye (Template:Lang-tr [ˈtyɾcije dʒumˈhuːɾijeti] ⓘ)

Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 19:38, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Poll

  • Option 2. The most official name in English is "Türkiye", not "Turkey". WP:COMMONNAME doesn't apply here because we're discussing what we should describe the official name as, not what we should title or describe the country as in the text. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 19:38, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Option 1 We do not base wikipedia articles off the statements of Turkish state media. The UN still lists Turkey's name as "Turkey" and it is still WP:COMMONNAME so I suggest Option 1 unless there is some sort of official law mandating the change.
    There is still no official act of the Grand National Assembly mandating this name change. Erdoğan can flaunt his nationalist agenda all he wants, but I am only willing to change my answer if there is a specific law for changing the name. CollectiveSolidarity (talk) 19:37, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Option 2 The Turkish government is using the name "Republic of Türkiye" and the article should be in line with other articles such as the Ivory Coast with "Republic of Côte d'Ivoire" even if is not the common English name of the country.--Kappasi (talk) 17:47, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Option 2 for neutrality, so that both spellings of the name (Turkey, Türkiye) are represented. Khestwol (talk) 17:51, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Option 1 It’s misleading to say this is a new “official” name. What has happened is much more limited than that. This is Erdogan’s circular of 3 December and this is Hürriyet Daily News’s coverage of it. What the circular actually says is that “Made in Türkiye” should be stamped on exports - that’s the focus of the circular. As far as other usage is concerned, it says “necessary sensitivity will be shown on the use of the phrase ‘Türkiye’ instead of phrases such as ‘Turkey,’ ‘Turkei,’ ‘Turquie’ etc.”. Erdogan doesn’t under the constitution have the power to determine an “official name” for the country and the circular doesn’t claim that this is the official name in English. Some of the Turkish media have got very excited about this and there’s plenty of exaggerated references to an “official name” but I don’t believe any such media coverage is WP:RS for the legal position, which is this is about, per WP:RSCONTEXT. DeCausa (talk) 18:12, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Türkiye is used by most government departments now on their official English language websites, not just for products made in Turkey.Kappasi (talk) Kappasi (talk) 20:44, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    that doesn’t make it the “official name” and there are departments that don’t use it. DeCausa (talk) 20:51, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Option 1 The official name of the country has not changed. It is still Türkiye Cumhuriyeti. We translate it by its components the way these are translated in common usage: Türkiye → "Turkey" Cumhuriyet → "Republic". The current government has chosen to promote "Turkiye" as translation for Türkiye, and hence "Republic of Türkiye" for Türkiye Cumhuriyeti, but that does not affect the rendering of the official name in WP based on common usage. –Austronesier (talk) 18:30, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Option 1. As far as I can tell, Erdogan did not declare "Republic of Türkiye" to be the country's official name. His memo expressed his wish that "Türkiye" be used as the brand of the nation in official publications and communications, mentioning "Made in Türkiye" in particular. No mention of what the official name in English should be. Many sources covering this in the following months have made it clear that this is an ongoing process, including by getting the UN to change the way it refers to the country. No source presented so far has said that this has actually happened. The UN is still using "Republic of Turkey".
    Major Turkish governmental institutions, including its national legislature and highest court, are still prominently using "Turkey", with the Constitutional Court using the full "Republic of Turkey". English language news media is continuing to use "Republic of Turkey" over "of "Türkiye" by about 5:1, according to Google News hits over the past month. Even Turkey's executive branch does not seem to have settled on its final choice. As of February, Erdogan was considering dropping the diacritic mark from the u.
    Nothing official has happened when it comes to "Republic of Türkiye" yet. We'll know when it's official because the whole Turkish government, other nations, intergovernmental organizations, and news media will shift. That has not happened. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 04:01, 11 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Option 1 for now. As I read from some sources (here, here and here, for instance), Turkey is registering the new name at the UN. I would switch to Option 2 when this registration will become official. P1221 (talk) 07:24, 11 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why would “registering” the name at the UN make a difference? The UN doesn’t have a function as an “official name” registry. Might as well check the registration at the International Poultry Council. DeCausa (talk) 12:49, 11 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The UN does have this function actually, assigned to UNGEGN. Even without this, a submission to any international body, in general, would be a useful sign that the name change was serious. In line with that, I note that the International Poultry Council still refers to the country as "Turkey". CMD (talk) 13:20, 11 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
They may well be the last hold out for the old name…UNGEGN is an “experts forum” for cartographic consistency, as I understand it. I don’t think a country can “register” their preferences with them. Basically, what Turkey has done has put in their request for what goes on the name plaque that they sit behind. DeCausa (talk) 13:31, 11 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Some of NATO and Organisation of Turkic States seems to use this. Beshogur (talk) 13:10, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Türkiye is already mentioned, and is the third word of the first sentence, in the article currently, and in both options. The issue isn’t about mentioning it, it’s whether, in addition to that, it should also be stated the “official name” is “Republic of Türkiye”. DeCausa (talk) 18:30, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes "Türkiye Cumhuriyeti" Moxy- 20:45, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Turkey ..., officially the Republic of Turkey or Türkiye ... not sure for infobox. Maybe Republic of Turkey / Türkiye. Beshogur (talk) 13:09, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Option 1 Per other users, this dictat was not a constitutional change nor a law, and seems to only apply to official organizations. Not only that, it doesn't seem to catch on outside of Turkish governmental media outlets, which seem to be obliged to follow this decree. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ido66667 (talk • contribs) 20:53, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Option 2 The Official name is Republic of Türkiye so we should use it.Yousef Raz (talk) 22:59, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Option 1 Until such time as it is clear that international bodies - such as the UN - have adopted this form. Pincrete (talk) 15:05, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Has been done...just waiting on UN [4] Moxy- 21:21, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, that source doesn’t say it has been done. In fact, all the sources to date seem to say that Turkey is planning to do it with no confirmation that it has been done yet, eg this which said back in January that it was going to be done “in the coming weeks”. DeCausa (talk) 22:01, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
yup done all over just not at the UN yet.....Why are we waiting on the UN...is it the only source we can use? What is wrong with the constitution? Seem odd for us to wait on one single source when we have many that are much more relevent. Moxy- 22:09, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It’s not in the constitution and no one’s using it much. DeCausa (talk) 22:18, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't knew that Turkey's Turkish constitution talked about English name of its name. I don't think so. Also Organization of Turkic States and some NATO bodies started to use the name "Türkiye". Beshogur (talk) 14:59, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. DeCausa (talk) 15:15, 19 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Other proposal

I think there’s an Option 3 to reflect that Erdoğan has launched a campaign to have Türkiye adopted in foreign language use even if it isn’t actually an “official name” change. I suggest adding a footnote to the words “…officially the Republic of Turkey…” in the first sentence which says:

Footnote
Beginning with a presidential circular issued in December 2021, President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan launched a campaign, latterly called Say Türkiye, to have the Turkish word for the country, Türkiye, used in all languages instead of foreign language equivalents.[1] As a result, the Turkish Foreign Ministry and some other state agencies have begun using the phrase Republic of Türkiye on the English language versions of their respective websites.[2]

This, I think, more accurately reflects that this is about a campaign to encourage a change of usage rather than an “official” name change, which overstates what’s happening. DeCausa (talk) 12:44, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's unnecessary and UNDUE, IMHO. Turkey#Name is a more fitting place for that, not a footnote in the lead. Some1 (talk) 01:53, 23 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

References

  1. ^ "'Say Türkiye' campaign to promote changing country's int'l name starts". Hürriyet Daily News. 17 February 2022. Retrieved 15 April 2022.
  2. ^ Soylu, Ragip (17 January 2022). "Turkey to register its new name Türkiye to UN in coming weeks". Middle East Eye. Retrieved 11 April 2022.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 August 2022

The GDP Nominal is Wrong, The 2021 GDP was 815 Billion Dollars According to The World Bank

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD?locations=TR

No Further Data Of 2022 Were Officially Published And The Estimate Is Very Very Unreasonable Considering Turkey Has One Of the Fastest Growing Economies, Experts Expect A Rise Of Around 3% In The Economy, So My Suggestion Is That Either You Change The GDP Nominal To “815 Billion $ (2021)” Or a More Reasonable Estimate, Thanks. HusCch (talk) 20:09, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I feel a bit unsure as the other source is of the International Monetary Fund (also prominent) and those numbers of a growing economy can be correct knowing of the devaluation of the lira of more than 100% within the last year. Maybe Turkish Gov. POV?, not that POV is wrong, but maybe in that case a more qualified opinion would be helpful.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 22:50, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. The IMF indicated about 806 for 2021 GDP which is much closer to the proposed 815 number put forth by TWB, also for 2021. However the number currently cited in the article is the 2022 estimate. This type of change represents a decision to use the older 2021 estimates rather than those for 2022. It may be okay but it's the type of thing that should reach consensus here first. --N8wilson 🔔 13:13, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:37, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Picture of president + main opposition leader

@Randam: actually you should've opened this thread. Can you show me a single example where opposition leaders are equally placed with the president on politics section? Beshogur (talk) 16:47, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Let me start by thanking you on taking the initiative to start this talk.)
1) IMO it's not relevant to show another example, because every format on wikipedia was once a first. See it as pioneering if you need. It's also irrelevant, because I could have given orders to a friend to make a similar change on a article with low traction or in which people didn't care, let's say Cambodia or Botswana. Then I would have said "Look, they have it in Cambodia and Botswana. Case closed."
2) I also disagree with the term "equally" placed. Putting pictures next to each other doesn't make them equal, just like putting one above the other doesn't make one better. In South Korea, the President and Prime Minister are next to each other and they are anything but equal. South Korean president is both head of state and head of government.
3) What is relevant is that the picture is mentioned in the text. Which is the case here.
4) It also helps elobrate the Turkish political dynamics. That in Turkey there is constantly an organized opposition to the government and that Turkey is not a one-party dictatorship like China, like some people on the internet think. That elections matter. --Randam (talk) 23:44, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Well PM and President are equal, because they have tasks by ruling the country, while the main opposition leader is mere a main opposition leader. I think you could put him somewhere, but placing equally is simply absurd. I would like to hear other people as well. Beshogur (talk) 11:22, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I also feel that the suggested double picture gives undue prominence to Kılıçdaroğlu. His picture could be placed at the third paragraph (describing the multi-party system) or the fourth (where he is mentioned). --T*U (talk) 10:51, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. While it is true that each article has it's own consensus and what happens in other country articles doesn't have to be followed here (per Randam), this article should be the last to give that sort of prominence to the opposition leader given Recep Tayyip Erdoğan#Authoritarianism. DeCausa (talk) 11:56, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Primary language

Turkish is not the predominant language although Turkey has minorities and respects them and also is open to welcome everyone. The country has one official language and it is Turkish. 2003:C9:F15:9B00:EDCF:B4D1:A7C4:7FDD (talk) 00:11, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

According to [5](page 19), as of 2006 Turkish was the mother tongue of 84.6% of the people of Turkey, and 87.5% used it as a daily language. Seems predominant to me. Have the figures changed much since then? Largoplazo (talk) 01:19, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Republic of Türkiye

@ValarianB: @Spekkios: I would like to ask, do not change such thing without a consensus. We discussed the lead several times. Yet Turkey calls it officially "Republic of Türkiye" and had been submitted to the UN, and you both trying to restore the old name, which isn't used anymore since months. This is beyond disruptive, and edit warring. Beshogur (talk) 13:16, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Beshogur (talk) 13:20, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hello @Black Kite: Please check previous rfc, the main reasons were "name change not done by the UN yet". However this changed (see examples above) and Ivory Coast example (Republic of Côte d'Ivoire). You're reverting it back to wrong version, without checking that this lead had remained for a while. Beshogur (talk) 18:12, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The consensus is here. Unless I am mistaken, the consensus has not changed --Spekkios (talk) 18:44, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Do you see the closing reason? Beshogur (talk) 19:01, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"Among the cited arguments" is not the same as "the only cited argument". --Spekkios (talk) 19:05, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What's your reasoning for the official name change then? You say wp:commonname, nobody's changing wp:comonname. Beshogur (talk) 20:02, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Beshogur, what's your definition of "official name" for the purposes of the English translation in the first sentence of country articles? DeCausa (talk) 20:07, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Official name that the country defines itself in English language texts. Otherwise the "officially" has no purpose. Regarding the use "Türkiye" alone beside, Turkey. Turkish news agencies, and particular supranational organizations that Turkey is part of it uses that as well in favor of Turkey. Beshogur (talk) 20:25, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Can you break that down for me? "that the country defines itself in English language texts". what exactly does that mean? How does "the country" do that? Is it by law, for instance? And also including "news agencies" needs explanation. "news agencies" are mostly private commercial organisations or is that not the case in turkey? And "supranational organizations that Turkey is part of". What if they are different to what is "officially" used within the country? the reason I'm asking these questions is to identify what you consider to be the objective grounds that could apply to any country and then apply them to Turkey, rather than the other way around i.e. "this has happened in Turkey and therefore that makes it the official name". DeCausa (talk) 20:44, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry but my answer was pretty much clear. You could see various examples by various users as well. And some months ago you told It’s not in the constitution and no one’s using it much. No they do. Beshogur (talk) 20:53, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, so you don't want to answer my questions. There's no obligation for you to do so. (By the way, that's a translation of the constitution. It's not the constitution which in law is only in Turkish). DeCausa (talk) 20:58, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And as a result the only "official" name in law and under the constitution is "Türkiye Cumhuriyeti" and nothing else. DeCausa (talk) 21:22, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We're talking about English right now. If your argument was correct, we wouldn't use "officially" on every single country (in case they have an alternate name). Beshogur (talk) 21:37, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If you're not willing to engage in the central points I raised I don't see that we can have a productive discussion if we dance around the periphery only. DeCausa (talk) 21:43, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Because that was the concensus established by the RfC. --Spekkios (talk) 21:02, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Beshogur is right. The circumstances on which the consensus was reached do not apply anymore today. A lot of people who voted for "option 1" said they support "option 2" if it became the UN name, which is the case now. To say that "Republic of Turkey" is the official name is not a matter of taste or wp:commonname anymore. It's just plain wrong.
It makes no sense to cling on old consensuses when circumstances have clearly changed. I have made this case recently here without any opposition. This version is balanced. --Randam (talk) 20:25, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The circumstances have not changed. While many users cited the United Nations, that does not mean that was the only reason that concensus was reached. The RfC stands, and you cannot unilaterally override it. --Spekkios (talk) 21:02, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) That may or may not be the case. Either way it needs a new RfC to establish current consensus. WP:EDITCONSENSUS is clear. "An edit has presumed consensus until it is disputed or reverted". The edit contrary to the RfC has been disputed and reverted so the reverted edit can only form a new consensus by means of an RfC. DeCausa (talk) 21:08, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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