Talk:Turkey: Difference between revisions

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Turkey article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

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Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Turkey FA‑class Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Turkey, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Turkey and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TurkeyWikipedia:WikiProject TurkeyTemplate:WikiProject TurkeyTurkey articles FA This article has been rated as FA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Countries FA‑class This article is within the scope of WikiProject Countries, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of countries on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CountriesWikipedia:WikiProject CountriesTemplate:WikiProject Countriescountry articles FA This article has been rated as FA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. WikiProject Countries to-do list: edit history watch purge Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Article requests : Check out the article alerts; see if anything catches your fancy. Cleanup : clean-up listing for Countries Stubs : de-stub articles in Category:Stubs by region. Other : add {{WPCountries}} to talk pages of related articles, and assess. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Western Asia FA‑class Top‑importance This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Western Asia, which collaborates on articles related to Western Asia. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.Western AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject Western AsiaTemplate:WikiProject Western AsiaWestern Asia articles FA This article has been rated as FA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Template:WP1.0

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on October 29, 2005.

	Turkey is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
	This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on March 4, 2007.
Article milestones Date Process Result July 18, 2006 Featured article candidate Not promoted December 21, 2006 Good article nominee Listed January 9, 2007 Featured article candidate Promoted
Current status: Featured article

To-do: E · H · W · R Updated 2024-09-25 Guidelines for editing the Turkey article Units in metric Manual of Style. Only external links pertaining to Turkey as a whole, or official government of Turkey links are solicited on this page. Please add other links in their respective articles. For further information, please see Wikipedia guidelines on External links and Conflict of interest. Please provide references when adding new information. Please use the correct citation format when adding references. If you are not sure which one is appropriate, please see WP:CITE for a list of available citation templates.

There aren't latest Vote of Turkey results. --Sehinsah (talk) 11:24, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the Turkey's map in this article??Please add it.User:Uber-Star005 04:32 9 June 2009 (UTC)

This template was not designed for countries, it was made to be placed onto cities or towns articles, the use here is not recommended Turkey is not a Euroasian coutry, it's just Asian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.50.109.199 (talk) 05:31, 13 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The article mentions that Turkey has the largest and most powerful armed forces in the Middle East, save for Israel. This statement is incorrect as the Turkish Armed Forces is also ranked higher than the Israeli Armed Forces. Global Fire Power ranks the Turkish Armed Forces higher than Israel. Turkey is home to NATO's second largest armed forces after the US Armed Forces. The Israeli Navy and Army is not even comparable with the Turkish Navy or Army. The Turkish Air Force also has a advantage over the Israeli Air Force in many respects such as aerial refueling capability, Boeing 737-800 MESA AWACS, NATO missile shield etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.150.241.156 (talk) 06:13, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Since i can not edit the main page, iceHockey things becoming more common despite less inclined? where is the some traditional sports out to be forgotten, Such as Most interesting ones as the jereed, or commons like box,taekwando, volleybal things becoming more common despite less inclined? im Turk never liked them as supposed to be, but the most popular. (88.242.226.165 (talk) 18:42, 8 April 2011 (UTC))[reply]

PLEASE ADD 'PEACE AT HOME PEACE IN THE UNIVERSE' TO NATIONAL SLOGAN. CORRECT TRANSLATION OF CIHAN IS NOT REALLY THE WORLD, BUT THE UNIVERSE. BUT THE WORLD WILL ALSO DO FOR NOW. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.235.33.174 (talk) 16:58, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have noticed that hyperlink to note 12 doesn't wrong ... the address added is wrong ... the correct one is:

http://www.heptagonpost.com/Dessi/can_turkey_be_a_source_of_stability_in_the_middle_east

I don't have the right to edit the article myself, so can someone else update it?

Masfiore (talk) 14:36, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Article does not show real side of Turkey where poverty and cruelty is at its peak. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.109.133.131 (talk) 09:51, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Poverty and cruelty is at its peak"... And that's not biased? There are sections in the article that are indeed biased, but they're mainly about the Armenian Genocide issue and is constantly being written as a propaganda for the Armenian diaspora. So yes, there is cruelty in the article, just not about the right subject. All the best, --Diren Yardimli (talk) 12:28, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

the following statement has no place in this article : "this website sucks" 94.54.233.216 (talk) 02:43, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

no such statement. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 03:07, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

5 people killed in Anti-Erdogan protests in a visit of Turkish president to Black sea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Strovolos01 (talk • contribs) 17:25, 31 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

5 people? Check the sources. And please do not add this minor event to this page. Kavas (talk) 23:10, 31 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Should more info be added about Turkey's earthquakes? It's really active. Attaturk is Greek (talk) 16:54, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please change the following:

The <a href="/wiki/Tourism_in_Turkey" title="Tourism in Turkey">tourism sector</a> has experienced rapid growth in the last twenty years, and constitutes an important part of the economy.

With:

The <a href="/wiki/Tourism_in_Turkey" title="Tourism in Turkey">tourism sector</a> has experienced rapid growth in the last twenty years, and constitutes an important part of the economy ^[1].

Tudordavies1987 (talk) 13:49, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done. Unfortunately, the reference you suggest does not meet our criteria. Feezo (send a signal | watch the sky) 14:24, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The part which said Hungarians and Turks have ancestral links is wrong. It should say that the Byzantines used to call Hungary "Tourkia" because that land was once occupied by Turkic tribes, before they migrated away. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.236.2.162 (talk) 00:46, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I hereby request the change of the following sentence "During the war, an estimated 1.5 million Armenians were deported and exterminated in the Armenian Genocide." under The History of Turkey. As can be seen in the Armenian Genocide article itself, the Armenian casualties in 1915 have not been recognized as a result of a genocide performed by the Ottoman-turkish civil or militants to the Ottoman-armenian population. The death of many Ottoman-armenians during the war is well recognized, however the word genocide is not accepted by the Turkish government and not recognized by many others^[2], therefore I suggest the change of this sentence. - EthemD (talk) 02:50, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

- There was a debate here, and the majority of editors were in favor of editing that sentence. The proposed sentence was "During the war, an estimated 1.5 million Armenians were deported and exterminated in what many historians call the Armenian Genocide". See http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Turkey&oldid=432086569. I think you agree on this. Kavas (talk) 14:21, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That is a more acceptable sentence, but it still talks about "1.5 million Armenians being deported and exterminated", as if it were a fact, but even the number of Armenians (1.5 million) that were deported is not recognized by many historians/nations, i.e. Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs ^[2]. I propose this sentence "During the war, a vast amount of Armenians were forced to migrate from their hometowns by Ottoman officials which many historians and nations believe to be the act of an Armenian Genocide.". -EthemD (talk) 17:20, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We don't have to change that sentence. We can (have to) add the sentence that explains the standpoint of the Turkish government.

For example,

During the war, an estimated 1.5 million Armenians were deported and/or exterminated in the Armenian Genocide. However, the Turkish government denies that there was an Armenian genocide and claims that Armenians were only relocated from the eastern war zone.^[3] -Takabeg (talk) 03:27, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That basically the same as "There was the Armenian Genocide, Turkey denies this", which makes the Armenian Genocide still look like a fact. Look, we can either say: yes the Armenian Genocide did happened, or no it didn't happen, or we can say that Armenians were forced to migrate by the Ottomans (which both sides agree) and say that this might have been a Genocide or not (which is the questionable piece). This perspective is represented by this sentence "During the war, a vast amount of Armenians were forced to migrate from their hometowns by Ottoman officials which many historians and nations believe or deny to be the act of an Armenian Genocide.". This is not a biased sentence, it does not deny the Armenian genocide, neither does it approve it, unlike the current sentence, am I not right? EthemD (talk) 12:50, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

- BBC summarizes "Armenian Genocide" as below:

• Hundreds of thousands of ethnic Armenians killed by Ottoman Turks in 1915-6.
• Many historians and the Armenian people believe the killings amount to genocide.
• Turks and some historians deny they were orchestrated.
• More than 20 countries regard the massacres as genocide.

I think, it is agreed that the current form is not sufficient because it does not represent the minor view. Turks and some historians does not deny the killings took place but they argue that they were not orchestrated. Wikipedia's rule is simple: Add minor view to a topic, if the minor view is not too marginal. In "Armenian Genocide" case, the minor view is shared by some historians, surely more than just a few. Kavas (talk) 19:48, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is only *one* sentence in there about the Armenian Genocide. If you add a sentence about the "minor" view (i.e. the genocide denial view), that is one sentence each. In other words, equal weight would be given to both, which would be a violation of WP:UNDUE. There is also a "minor" view that the Holocaust didn't really happen, but we don't include it in the article on Germany. Athenean (talk) 19:52, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No. that editor only added one word. As "There is only *one* sentence in there about the Armenian Genocide", adding one word to represent the minor view is not contrary to WP:UNDUE. Kavas (talk) 19:59, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Besides, Holocaust denial is clearly not a "minor" view, but rather a very very minor view or a conspiracy theory. Kavas (talk) 20:00, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"...what many historians call the Armenian Genocide" is WP:WEASEL. Athenean (talk) 21:41, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If we are going to approach this topic like a popularity contest, it can be still argued, 1. That the neutral view, is the majority view and that approval of the Genocide is not a majority view. 2. It can be argued that the opinion of the countries close to the place where these happened, and the archive's claim should be weighted more than foreign countries (especially if they have been purely influenced by lobbying). 3. It can also be argued that there is no need to mention the Armenian Genocide, in the 2 paragraphs section of the Ottoman Empire, as no deaths or other events, other than factional changes in national sovereignty are mentioned. Claims 1 is already difficult to prove, and claims 2 and 3 both speak for changing or removing that sentence. -EthemD (talk) 18:13, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am still requesting a change of that section of the article. I actually do not think this issue will be resolved, and propose the removal of the whole reference to casualties of the Armenian (and any other ethnic) conflicts (as casualties for a disputed Armenian Genocide are not relevant and minor compared to world war I casualties/conflicts in the Ottoman Empire); and it should just be mentioned how the partitioning of the Ottoman empire took place. - EthemD (talk) 23:37, 5 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If no reply comes from opposing editors, you can go on and edit the page. Then if they revert, the discussion will be active again. Kavas (talk) 20:27, 16 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, can you provide for us the link of BBC's article ? Takabeg (talk) 23:07, 16 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sue. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8572934.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8563483.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8636800.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8553013.stm By default, BBC uses these terms. Kavas (talk) 17:14, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"What many historians call the Armenian Genocide" is weasel wording, pure and simple. We've been over this 100 times already, going through the motions every few months all over again is meaningless. The proposed changes were roundly rejected the last time around, and I don't see that changing any time soon. Athenean (talk) 23:11, 16 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It was not rejected, the majority was in favor of keeping that word. Kavas (talk) 17:13, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Considerable number of Turkish intellectuals don't deny the Armenian Genocide. For example, özür diliyorum ("I'm sorry", or "I'm apologizing") (see Özür Diliyorum, Простите нас). They use the term Büyük Felâket that is Turkish translation of Մեծ Եղեռն (Medz Yeghern, Great Catastrophe). Takabeg (talk) 01:50, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

One of signers was a friend of me. Most Turkish historians "deny" Genocide is a suitable word to describe the mass killings of 1915. Kavas (talk) 17:13, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't support weasel wording, but you have been and are basically rejecting the whole idea behind keeping the article unbiased, just because of a piece of phrase that was poorly worded. It would be better if you tried to understand why the current version needs a change and help us make this change happen. We have to have a clear equal-sided reference or keep the whole reference and topic out - either way, this version of the article is unacceptable. Reading through the whole section, there isn't even a reference to any other deaths in WW1 besides this globally controversial Armenian Genocide! How did this even make it into the article?

It's not up to us wikipedians to do the historian's jobs and argue what is true and what not - we are just here to pass on information with correct wording and citation. If we don't have enough facts, then we should just drop the whole topic, especially in such a featured article. This motion is neither denial nor approval of the Armenian Genocide. I've described the situation in my previous posts as well and am still, after more than half a month, requesting any Wikipedia Administrator to do something about this. EthemD (talk) 02:10, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia Administrators is not an authority to decide the article content, they work like other editors. But they make other editors abide by Wikipedia rules like 3RR. You can add other deaths in WW1, if someone opposes this, probably we'll discuss it and it is less likely to have consensus to remove sourced content. I'm not sure "most" or "some" is weasel wording since BBC writes articles by using this term. Kavas (talk) 17:20, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

User:Pensionero claimed CIA and Milliyet say only Kurds.

But at least in Milliyet (a research by KONDA), it's clear that they used Kürt ve Zazaların nüfusu (population of Kurds and Zazas). Takabeg (talk) 00:41, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Turkey: A Country Study^[4] was used in this edit. But this book was published in 1995. Toooooo old and out of date especially for demographic datum. Meybe we can use these information for writing history of Turkey. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 09:12, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Opening Section 1, Paragraph 4 states Turkey is a 'secular' state; the map provided under 'Secularity' declares Turkey is non-secular. Which is it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.223.238.237 (talk) 06:26, 5 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Secularism is one of the building blocks of the Republic of Turkey, it is one of the major reforms of Atatürk.^[5] I don't know what article's map you are referring to, could you provide a link? You can also post this in its discussion, so that we can correct it. -EthemD (talk) 23:22, 5 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Whoever cited the KONDA article has changed the values drastically. I took a look at page 27 of the KONDA report, and it clearly shows that Agnostics represent 2.3% of the population, and atheists at 0.9%. The remaining 96.8% consists of religious people. It would be wise for whomever is looking over the religion section to verify this and make the appropriate corrections. I have so far changed the Agnostic/Atheist percentage to put them in line with the statistics from the KONDA survey, but I do not know the number of Christians/Others at the moment. Looking at the Christianity in Turkey article page, it seems that that number is around 0.1%, but someone should verify. I have changed the Islam percentage accordingly as well. I also changed the text in the article to reflect this fact. It would be wise to clean up the religion segment of this article, as there are various numbers given. The KONDA survey is by far the best gauge of religion in Turkey today, so I feel that it should be given the priority in the segment. Articles for Christianity and other religions should be featured as well. The Fear (talk) 22:50, 11 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Does Turkey have a motto? Something like, "Peace in the homeland, peace in the world". Politis (talk) 09:12, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]