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m Reverted 1 edit by DogukanOdaci (talk) to last revision by EtienneDolet. (TW)
→Move discussion: new section
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[[Special:Contributions/87.164.0.237|87.164.0.237]] ([[User talk:87.164.0.237|talk]]) 08:26, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
[[Special:Contributions/87.164.0.237|87.164.0.237]] ([[User talk:87.164.0.237|talk]]) 08:26, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
:[[File:Yes check.svg|20px|link=]] '''Done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:Cannolis|Cannolis]] ([[User talk:Cannolis|talk]]) 13:02, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
:[[File:Yes check.svg|20px|link=]] '''Done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:Cannolis|Cannolis]] ([[User talk:Cannolis|talk]]) 13:02, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

== Move discussion ==

A move discussion with connection to this article is open at [[Talk:Kurdish_languages#Requested_move_16_June_2015|Kurdish languages' talk page]]. [[User:Khestwol|Khestwol]] ([[User talk:Khestwol|talk]]) 23:52, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Revision as of 23:52, 24 June 2015

Template:Vital article

Former featured articleTurkey is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
Good articleTurkey has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on March 4, 2007.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
July 18, 2006Featured article candidateNot promoted
December 21, 2006Good article nomineeListed
January 9, 2007Featured article candidatePromoted
December 20, 2011Featured article reviewDemoted
August 11, 2014Good article nomineeListed
September 15, 2014Peer reviewReviewed
March 6, 2015Featured article candidateNot promoted
Current status: Former featured article, current good article

Template:Outline of knowledge coverage

File:Armenian woman kneeling beside dead child in field.png to appear as POTD

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Armenian woman kneeling beside dead child in field.png will be appearing as picture of the day on April 24, 2015. You can view and edit the POTD caption at Template:POTD/2015-04-24.

The same announcement was made at Armenian Genocide, but I think this forum ought equally to know what is planned. c1cada (talk) 13:30, 17 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Armenian Genocide
An Armenian woman kneeling beside a dead child in a field during the Armenian Genocide, conducted by the government of the Ottoman Empire. The genocide is conventionally held to have begun on 24 April 1915, when Ottoman authorities arrested and later executed some 250 Armenian intellectuals and community leaders. Much of the remaining Armenian population were deported into the deserts of Syria, where most died from starvation, exhaustion, and systematic massacres. The total number of people killed has been estimated at between 1 and 1.5 million. Though the events are widely recognized as a genocide by historians, the Turkish government rejects such a description.Photograph: American Committee for Relief in the Near East; restoration: MjolnirPants
Archive – More featured pictures...

The views of "all sides" (Armenian, Turkish, neutral) must be given

As an encyclopedia, Wikipedia must concisely cite "all views and estimates" (Armenian, Turkish, neutral) so that the readers can understand what's the dispute, including estimates by neutral historians regarding the casualties during the Tehcir Law deportations of 1915-1916. Superfluous man (talk) 08:59, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Tehcir Law deportations took place between 1915 and 1916. From a legal point of view, the Armenian civilians who died during the Tehcir Law deportations can count as "genocide victims" (or "ethnic cleansing" victims.) The Armenian soldiers of the Armenian volunteer units in the Russian Army, and the French Armenian Legion in the French Army, or the armed local Armenian militia who died while fighting the Ottoman Army during WWI don't count as "genocide" victims, but as "war" victims. Superfluous man (talk) 08:59, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The 600,000 figure is Toynbee's figure for the first year of the genocide. Therefore, it cannot be regarded as an accurate count of all Armenians that have died during the Armenian Genocide. By the way, the genocide lasted until 1923, and not 1916. Saying that the genocide ended when the Tehcir law is to misrepresent what the majority of sources say regarding the event. Étienne Dolet (talk) 09:03, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Legally, only the Armenian civilians who died during the Tehcir Law deportations of 1915-1916 (which was under the responsibility of the Ottoman government) can count as "genocide" or "ethnic cleansing" victims. The Armenian soldiers of the Armenian volunteer units in the Russian Army, and the French Armenian Legion in the French Army, or the armed local Armenian militia who died while fighting the Ottoman Army during WWI don't count as "genocide" victims, but as "war" victims. The deaths which occurred during the inter-ethnic clashes between local Armenians and local Muslims (Turks and Kurds) in eastern Anatolia during WWI also don't count as "genocide" casualties, but as "civil war" casualties. Superfluous man (talk) 09:16, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Your edit contains the phrase lost their lives due to massacres, starvation and diseases, according to Armenians and a number of international sources which downplays the acceptance of the AG by the mainstream scholarship and is heavily POV. Your arguments seem to relitigate known facts about the AG and are also POV. You are also edit-warring to keep your preferred version. Please stop your edit-warring until an NPOV version of your edit is found. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 09:28, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You have purposefully taken the latter part of the sentence, and not all of it. Here's the complete paragraph:

The Ottoman Empire entered World War I on the side of the Central Powers and was ultimately defeated. During the war, the empire's Armenians were deported from Eastern Anatolia to Syria as part of the Armenian Genocide. As a result, up to 1,500,000 Armenians lost their lives due to massacres, starvation and diseases, according to Armenians and a number of international sources.[1][2][3] Turkey maintains the view that approximately 300,000 Armenians died during the Tehcir Law deportations between 1915 and 1916, while Encyclopædia Britannica cites Toynbee's and McCarthy's estimates of circa 600,000 deaths.[4] The Turkish government refuses to acknowledge the events as genocide and claims that Armenians were only relocated from the eastern war zone.[5] Large-scale massacres were also committed against the empire's other minority groups such as the Greeks and Assyrians.[6][7][8] Following the Armistice of Mudros on 30 October 1918, the victorious Allied Powers sought to partition the Ottoman state through the 1920 Treaty of Sèvres.[9]

Superfluous man (talk) 09:41, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You have purposefully taken the latter part of the sentence, and not all of it. Your WP:AGF-defying reply still does not address my concern. Your sentence according to Armenians and a number of international sources seeks to downplay the vast majority of academic sources which call this a genocide and you make it appear as if the Armenians and some unnamed sources agree that it is a genocide. This is misinformation. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 09:46, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You are using sources that are considered unreliable in Wikipedia because they go against the general consensus which this project has instilled towards the Armenian Genocide. McCarthy has minimized the suffering of Christian minorities during their respective genocides, while exaggerating the deaths of Muslims to make it appear as though it was a civil conflict. That's not neutral, and hardly reliable. Also, you still haven't addressed the issue regarding Toynbee. His report on the number of deaths was in 1916, no more than a year into the Genocide. Étienne Dolet (talk) 09:54, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Do you disagree with the fact that the deportees died because of massacres, starvation and diseases? This is a widely accepted fact. Also, the definition Armenian Genocide is made in the previous sentence. There are conflicting estimates on the death toll (see the Britannica link.) Superfluous man (talk) 09:59, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Mates, current intro is fine i think. Numbers should be stated in History section. In order to satisfy both sides, number should be represented as 600.00--1.500.000 or sth like that. There is no need for heartbreaking... kazekagetr 19:34, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your philosophical approach Kazekage but I think you know better than most that Lord of Rivendell and his socks do not seem to have a very high regard for the 3RR rule. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 22:17, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The 600,000 estimate has been widely discredited; see WP:UNDUE. Alakzi (talk) 22:19, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Fact Sheet: Armenian Genocide". University of Michigan. Retrieved 15 July 2010.
  2. ^ Freedman, Jeri (2009). The Armenian genocide (1st ed.). New York: Rosen Pub. Group. ISBN 1-4042-1825-4.
  3. ^ Totten, Samuel, Paul Robert Bartrop, Steven L. Jacobs (eds.) Dictionary of Genocide. Greenwood Publishing Group, 2008, p. 19. ISBN 0-313-34642-9.
  4. ^ "Death toll from the Armenian Genocide". Encyclopædia Britannica. 7 April 2015. Retrieved 24 April 2015.
  5. ^ Patrick J. Roelle, Sr. (27 September 2010). Islam's Mandate- a Tribute to Jihad: The Mosque at Ground Zero. AuthorHouse. p. 33. ISBN 978-1-4520-8018-5. Retrieved 9 February 2013.
  6. ^ Donald Bloxham (2005). The Great Game of Genocide: Imperialism, Nationalism, And the Destruction of the Ottoman Armenians. Oxford University Press. p. 150. ISBN 978-0-19-927356-0. Retrieved 9 February 2013.
  7. ^ Levene, Mark (Winter 1998). "Creating a Modern 'Zone of Genocide': The Impact of Nation- and State-Formation on Eastern Anatolia, 1878–1923". Holocaust and Genocide Studies. 12 (3): 393–433. doi:10.1093/hgs/12.3.393.
  8. ^ Ferguson, Niall (2007). The War of the World: Twentieth-Century Conflict and the Descent of the West. Penguin Group (USA) Incorporated. p. 180. ISBN 978-0-14-311239-6.
  9. ^ Cite error: The named reference Ottomans was invoked but never defined (see the help page).


Armenian Genocide

There should be a section just on the Armenian Genocide as it is popular in current news it would be helpful for wiki readers to see a more brief and detailed topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xelophate (talk • contribs) 00:09, 30 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

there is an article for it right? btw it is mentioned in the lede and in the relevant section (history-ottoman) along with the other massacres/genocides. kazekagetr 12:45, 30 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

kurdish percentage

In Cia world factbook the kurdish percentage is estimatedwith 18%, not 24% as the article claims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Franky384 (talk • contribs) 23:26, 1 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 2 June 2015

Please change the kurdish percentage under demographics to 18% as the cia world factbook says which is given as source. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tu.html 87.164.0.237 (talk) 08:26, 2 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Done Cannolis (talk) 13:02, 2 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion

A move discussion with connection to this article is open at Kurdish languages' talk page. Khestwol (talk) 23:52, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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