Talk:Mountain Jews

I have PERMISSION from the people at this website. Don't say that there is suspicion of copyright infringement!

I even have the email!!!! Here it is:

• From: kiisu@eki.ee
• Subject: Re: Mountain Jews
• Date: March 18, 2004 11:16:18 PM PST

Some time ago I already gave full permission to use the whole book in Wikipedia. Please check if the contents of the Red Book are available in other sections, it may turn out that a simple link is sufficient. Anyway, you are free to use the material as you see fit.

• Indrek Hein
• webmaster@eki.ee

-User:Dagestan

Interesting article. :) But is there any reason for that National Geographic quote to be there? I'd much rather see our own summary, which obviously could incorporate any relevant information from the NG piece. Markalexander100 07:08, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

An anon recently added "Also known as Caucasian Jews." Does anyone know, does that term also include the Gruzim? (If so, article should clarify). -- Jmabel

I wish I was a mountain Jew. That's the coolest name for a race of people I've ever heard of. --NoPetrol 07:57, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

& these ain't no Catskills... -- Jmabel | Talk 09:10, Dec 17, 2004 (UTC)

Does anyone know if the recently anonymously added mention of National Geographic in the photo caption is correct? It's not mentioned on the image page. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:22, Jan 8, 2005 (UTC)

"here is some debate on the origin of the Jewish Tats, with some defending that they are not Tat at all but simply Jews that took the Tat language, while others argue that they are the descendants of Tats that converted to Judaism." What does this mean? They have to have come from somewhere. Being 'Jew' alone doesn't indicate an ethnicity, unless what is meant is that they are Afro-Asiatic->Canaanite->Hebrew! --Alif 03:05, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Jew indeed indicates ethnicity, among other things; read the article on Jew for more information. Jayjg ^(talk) 04:41, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The article 'Jews' syas:

"Most Jews regard themselves as a people, members of a nation, descended from the ancient Israelites and those who joined their religion at various times and places. The term Jew came into being when the Kingdom of Israel was split between the northern Kingdom of Israel and the southern Kingdom of Judah. Hence, the Israelites (who were later largely destroyed by the Assyrians) were those of the northern kingdom and the Jews (who survived) were those of the southern kingdom. Over time, the word Jew has come to refer to those of the Jewish faith rather than those from Judah. In modern usage, Jews include both those Jews actively practicing Judaism, and those Jews who, while not practicing Judaism as a religion, still identify themselves as Jews by virtue of their family's Jewish heritage and their own cultural identification."

Adding to this what this article says:

"There is some debate on the origin of the Jewish Tats, with some defending that they are not Tat at all but simply Jews that took the Tat language, while others argue that they are the descendants of Tats that converted to Judaism."

This makes it more accurate and NPV to not assert such ethnical connonations. What do you think? --Alif 18:05, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

But Tat Jews are a specific ethnic group, with their own language, customs, etc., regardless of their origins. Why do you object to this? Jayjg ^(talk) 18:11, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Not quite true. According to the article, they use Tat language. Even when/if their dialect is affected by their religion in the form of loanwords, usage, it is still the same language as their neighbours. Also, from the article: "Any specific Mountain Jew features, distinguishing them from the Islamic environment, originate in Judaism", which means that their daily life details, costumes, customs, are due to their different religion. A Catholic Irish person isn't ethnically different from an Protestant Irish person, even though they may be affected with English culture to different extents, or even live in a different country.

What I'm objecting to is using religion as a race-establishing factor, because it isn't logical. Saying a different prayer does not change one's genetic ancestry. Not that there's something as a "pure race", or "superior/inferior" nation or anything, but rather because it simply defies logic. --Alif 19:44, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I don't have strong opinions on most of this, but "ethnicity" is not just a code word for "race". Ethnicity is a mix of language, culture, physical type, self-identification, etc. as its etymology suggests, it is more like nationality. It is malleable. -- Jmabel | Talk 21:11, Mar 6, 2005 (UTC)

They spoke Judeo-Tat [1] [2] , they have different customs etc. Catholic Irish and Protestant Irish are quite arguably different ethnicities; Protestant Irish originate mostly from Scotland, and have been separate from Catholic Irish for at least 400 years. And as Jmabel points out, ethnicity and race are different matters. (Jayjg 6 Mar 2005)

Shalom from Pakistan

I am descended from the Pathans/Pakhtun/Pashtun of the Pakistan/Afghanistan Border and have done research on the Lost tribe subject for the last 5 years. The word Pakhtun or Pashtun is of Persian origin and means "those who live on the back of mountains", now you all know that we are B'nei Israel I dont have to get into the details of this. So technically you left Persia due to persecution after the Assyrian exile, as did we. You guys went north, we went south and east into Afghanistan, hence we are the same people and I read many articles on Mountain Jews, I found so many simillarities between your people and the Pathans/Pakhtuns/Pashtuns that I am convinced we are the same people. I need someone here to contact me with whatever research material you have, I also have tons of material. I am firstly going to write articles which will jointly (your name and mine) be published in journals and websites and then I am collecting material for a large and definitive book on the Lost tribes of Israel.

contact me immediately,

Qazi Fazli Azeem
qfazeem@yahoo.com
http://www.fazliazeem.com
Karachi, Pakistan

• I would suggest you have a look at Theory of Pashtun descent from Israelites. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:27, 31 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Either add all other Jewish groups, who were living in the area of Khazar Empire (Ashkenazi and Georgian Jews, Russian and Hungarian Subbotniks - Selezny), or remove Caucasian Jews from this group. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.65.248.4 (talk • contribs) 4 Feb 2006 (UTC)