Talk:Oricon

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• Are there any English archives of Oricon charts available anywhere? Something similar to everyhit.com or chartstats.com but for Japan? Thanks! Wickethewok 14:48, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Still no answer to this? I'd like to find out if there is an online archive. Iangurteen (talk) 11:14, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is requested that a photograph be included in this article to improve its quality. Wikipedians in Japan may be able to help! The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

Bigtop 21:22, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The section on the SLAPP suit needs to be expanded, and probably needs a different title. Shinobu 06:49, 20 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm new to the edit history of this page, but there are apparently dozens of edits over this single sentence (and an access date). I apologize for not checking first to see the apparent roaring edit war before reverting User:Zoizoiz2's latest edit as vandalism. I suppose it's not exactly vandalism when taken alone, but when several people keep reverting your edit, perhaps it's worth sitting down to discuss?

That said, I think even though the statement may be true, it's not so important that it's worth edit warring over. The Oricon charts are certainly among the best-known of Japan's music charts. They may even be the most well-known. But I would argue that that's pretty much impossible to find a solid citation for; even though your citations might support that it's quite important, I wouldn't trust any source as to what is the most well-known, particularly not a quickie written by Nippop. (Nothing against Nippop, just that I'm pretty darn sure they didn't do any real research before citing Oricon as the "best-known".) In any case, the information doesn't really add much to the article. Is there any really compelling reason why it should be in here, and do you have a good source for it? —Jediknil (talk) 05:55, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No it does not belong in the article, and someone has already mentioned in the article that Tokushin is industry only, while Oricon is open to the public. 220.253.30.70 (talk) 08:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have two red-links in W-inds. to individual-chart Articles waiting to be written: Weekly Albums Chart and Weekly Singles Chart, already prepped for this Article. What References are available for articles on the individual Oricon charts? B. C. Schmerker (talk) 02:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Didn't BoA have a number one with 'Do The Motion' in 2005, or does South Korea not count as 'international'? The flying pasty (talk) 17:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please see Talk:AKB48#Record sales concerning a re-evaluation of Oricon rankings based on bulk CD sales, and see if this would be useful to document for this article. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 19:05, 1 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Since most charts in other countries are incorporating digital downloads and streaming, is it necessary to add the combined singles and albums chart, introduced in 2018, as a separate list in the articrles because it gives it a more accurate picture of what the country is listening in recent years than sourcing from just physical sales. CrisBalboa1 (talk) 09:15, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Start separate articles for the Combined charts if you are so intent on having them on Wikipedia. I don't want to spend the time conforming mangled VisualEdit-inserted citations on the main Oricon lists. I have integrated listing sales and the archive data, but nothing else from the recent rounds of edits made by Everydhel. I have posted on Everydhel's talk page, and informed them of the same thing—if you wish to include the Combined charts, they should have a different series of articles as they are different charts. There are very few weeks where there is a different number one from the overall physical sales chart—there were only five weeks in 2023 where a different song was number one on the Combined Singles chart from the main physical sales chart. Also, those different digital number ones on the Oricon Combined Singles and Albums charts usually end up being number one on the Japan Hot 100 and Japan Hot Albums as published by Billboard, which already have a series of number-one list articles. I personally find the Combined chart at this stage to be an irrelevant statistic and am opposed to its integration on the main Oricon lists, as like I said, most of the data is literally just being repeated. Readers gain little from its integration other than a more complex table to scan through. Ss112 18:13, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fine, I may create those separate list articles for those if you are happy with that. I even noticed you reverted those edits. As I said some of those few weeks have more popular songs the country listens to, though unlike most countries, singles rarely get consecutive weeks of more than two. It is unusual for a country to create a playlist instead of integrating digital download or streaming data to its then main chart as many countries did so. CrisBalboa1 (talk) 19:16, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Of course I'm fine with that, hence why I suggested it. My issue wasn't with the fact that songs or albums don't spend many consecutive weeks at number one in Japan, it's that there's little differentiation in most weeks between what is number one on the physical charts versus what is number one on the combined chart—that applies to singles and albums. As I pointed out, only five out of 52 weeks in 2023 was a different song number one on the combined chart than the physical chart. If you want to start separate lists that are mostly duplications to document the few variations of successful digital songs in Japan (like Yoasobi's "Idol", NewJeans' songs, and that recent Creepy Nuts song), then go ahead, but as I said, we already have lists for number ones on Billboard Japan's charts, which take digital activity into account. Ss112 22:10, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello everyone. I thought a lot about whether or not to open this discussion and in the end I said to myself that it was the best solution, also to avoid edit wars.

On December 2018, Oricon launched Oricon Combined Charts to better reflect the popularity and market change in Japan. Despite the company visibly treating these rankings as "main", here on Wikipedia it's still written that the old Oricon physical charts are the Japanese music industry standard popularity charts. If we think about how long these rankings have existed, it is a very dated statement.

Oricon lists Combined Charts at the top on its official website in the homepage ( https://www.oricon.co.jp/ If you are using a PC, look on the right side), in the ranking page ( https://www.oricon.co.jp/rank/ If you are using a PC, look at the buttons on the left side), in the ranking lab page ( https://www.oricon.co.jp/music/rankinglab/ ), in its paid archive ( https://ranking.oricon.co.jp/sample.asp ) and in its X account ( https://x.com/oricon_ranking/status/1829428850251706798/photo/1 ).

So, isn't it time to update that statement? Isn't it time to use only the Combined chart at least for artists weren't active before 2018? Here on Wikipedia, component charts (I mean chart by formats, such as Streaming chart, Download chart, etc.) are used only if an album or single doesn't chart in the main ranking. Japan is the only country where we have a component chart with an its column in every discography page (which can be there for historical artists, because when they started their recording career there were no Combined Charts. But with recent artists it doesn't make sense).

Some might say that there is Billboard Japan, but it's not the same thing. Keep on mind that Oricon Combined Singles Chart only counts physical sales, downloads and streaming, using a points system very similar to the European one. Billboard Japan Hot 100 also counts radio airplay and karaoke and it uses a very different merging system, that it's more similar both to the American and Canadian Hot 100. Furthermore, Oricon Combined Albums ranking is the only Albums chart that also includes the streaming ( read here: https://www.oricon.co.jp/rank/about-combinerank/ ). Billboard Japan Hot Albums only counts physical sales and downloads ( read here: https://www.billboard-japan.com/common/about/ ).

However, the presence of Billboard Japan shouldn't justify the choice to use a component chart for Oricon instead of the main one. It's like if we use the Circle Download Chart instead of the Circle Digital Chart because there is the Billboard South Korea Songs Chart in the same discography page. Per Wikipedia rules, main charts have always the priority.

So, in brief, these are my proposals:

1) Update the "Japanese music industry standard popularity charts" statement.

2) To align with what happens in all the rankings around the world, I propose to use only Oricon Combined and Billboard Japan Hot Charts at least for artists that didn't start their recording career before 2018, using the component charts as notes if an album or single doesn't reach a spot in the main rankings. About artists that started their recording carrer before 2018, we could continue to use Oricon Physical, Oricon Combined and Billboard Japan Hot Charts.

User:Simone Jackson (talk) 13:00, 31 August 2024 (UTC) // edited: 21:51, 31 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All of this ignores the very clear fact that digital consumption of music (downloading and streaming) in Japan is still dwarfed by physical purchases of music. The digital units added on top of the physical sales each week are minuscule. Take this week, for example: "Cheat Day" by Nogizaka46 has 509,819 physical sales [1], and its total units with digital integration? 517,088 [2]. Every other week is very similar aside from instances where something was only released digitally, which is few and far between. You're talking about what's listed "first" at various locations as if in those places Oricon doesn't also list the (physical) singles and albums charts right after. I don't order in these locations, some of which are arbitrary, to be a compelling argument.

Besides, I don't see you getting a consensus here due to how little interaction this talk page gets. Fair enough about this being the place to propose a change to the wording of this article, but this is not the right location to be trying to gain a consensus for editors to use only the Combined charts elsewhere. Ss112 01:15, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that the number 1 single of the week is almost always a physical release doesn't mean that the entire chart can be overlooked at the expense of a component chart still regarded as the "industry standard" on Wikipedia (a title that no longer belongs to it, however).

34 singles out of 50 on the Combined Singles Chart of this week ( https://www.oricon.co.jp/rank/cos/w/2024-09-02/) are digital only. It's more than half and it's the same number of the previous week.

If you have numbers like that, it's clear that just looking at the physical chart doesn't adequately represent the market, especially if only Idols publish CD singles and rarely other artists do it.

We know that many idols are extremely popular and sell a lot of physical copies securing the first two spots, but the chart doesn't stop to the second place. Still counting the physical chart as "main" means to ignore (or at least, consider them B-series hits) almost every hits released by non idol artists, such as Fujii Kaze, Ado, Yoasobi and Mrs. Green Apple. But also if you consider the Korean idols, many of them release very few physical CD singles in Japan.

Forgive me, but I don't understand why listing these rankings above the others on the official website isn't already a significant indicator in itself. Every chart provider lists the most important ranking before the others. It happens in UK, France, Sweden.... everywhere.

Furthermore, Oricon is keen to show at least the most important rankings (Combined, Physical, Digital, Streaming and DVD/Blu-Ray) because they have a sort of "crown system". When an artist reaches the top spot on multiple of these charts in the same week, they talk about double crown, triple crown, etc.

About the last part of your message, where do you suggest opening such a discussion to go beyond the description of this article? Simone Jackson (talk) 09:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I never said we couldn't also list the Combined Singles and Albums charts. In fact, we frequently do this. There's nothing stopping you or any editor from listing the Combined Singles and Albums charts for those artists that release digital singles to accurately represent that side of the market. I am only opposing replacing the physical chart entirely/in all cases with the Combined chart.

A WikiProject page would be your best bet. Ss112 05:04, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there! Thanks for the message you left on my talk page. So my understanding of your discussion starter is that you're proposing for Wikipedia users to use the Combined Singles chart rather than the Physical Chart to rank singles as it better reflects modern music consumption, follows the same format as other well-credited international charts, and is the main chart pushed by Oricon (forgive me if I've misunderstood).

So, here's my opinion:

1, The ranking difference between the two charts and cases where the Combined chart may be a better reference of popularity (excluding sales):

I have noticed that there is rarely a difference between how well an artist ranks on the Physical Chart vs the Combined Chart.

For example, DXTeen's singles rank a bit better in the physical charts, while JO1's rank equally well in both. This is the trend for most Japanese singles, with physical singles usually ranking around the same in both charts. One of the only exceptions I've noticed is with digital singles, for example Mrs Green Apple's, as they (of course) have no ranking on the Physical Chart, and we therefore have to refer to the Combined Chart. Therefore, I can see why the Combined Chart should be considered the main chart to use when referring to how popular a single is in Japan, as it accounts for more than just physical sales and allows a better comparison of how popular the single is regardless of whether it's a physical or digital release.

2, But if we're taking sales into account...

Just like Ss112 pointed out, physical sales usually (if it's not a digital single) outnumber the digital sales. I've seen rare instances of this not being case, for example, the single "Mugen/Tokoshie" by My First Story and Hyde has more combined digital sales than physical sales, but again, this isn't that common. So, due to the very small differences between how well singles chart in the Physical vs Combined charts, I think we should stick to the current Physical chart as the "norm" and use the Combined chart as a reference for when it's a digital single/if the single doesn't rank on the physical chart.

However, this is just my opinion, and like Ss112 said in their final sentence, this talk page isn't really viewed that often, so if you want a change to be enforced there might be a better place to post this so it reaches more people and gains more opinions (as for where I have no clue, sorry). ZP (talk) 20:31, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]