Talk:Emo

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Emo was nominated as a good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (October 27, 2006). There are suggestions below for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

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You may also find older issues at Talk:Emo/Archive 1.

Though I doubt this will be read:

The official version contains the periods. DC is the postal code.

Sources for "D.C.": various dictionaries (Websters, Random House, American Heritage), various encyclopedias, AP Style Guide (view how the Washington Post abbreviates it for a good example).

A unilateral change of this type is not acceptable without prior discussion. If you feel this change is necessary, you MUST provide adequate sources (e.g., official documentation) and enter discussion. However, given that nearly all available sources include the periods, you'd have to make a very convincing argument to see the change through. -- ChrisB 05:31, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Response to edit summary: NYC is not a fair comparison, as "N.Y.C." is not an official abbreviation. "D.C." is an official abbreviation. Additionally, "everybody uses DC" is original research. While DC is commonly used, it's widely used because it is the postal code. Again, this change should not be made without WIDE consensus - it affects countless pages on Wikipedia. And this article should not be the first place to see this change - the change should be handled on the pages for D.C., etc, in order to establish the precedent. At the moment, Wikipedia's standard is "D.C.", and this page should reflect the standard. -- ChrisB 23:51, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone please revert back to the last edit by Aiyda? I tried about 10 times and my browser is malfunctioning. Chubbles 19:24, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, nevermind. I see what happened. Doh! Chubbles 19:26, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I altered the band lists to fit it, seeing as how everyone's listing what one person says or thinks as what is true. Actually, I think what bands are emo and not is totally opinionated, but I'll play along anyway. So anyway, despite what past articles said, I removed Coheed & Cambria (they are alternative rock, if not metal!), Panic! and FOB (both on the pop scene, and not at all emo), and The Used (half punk half alternative). I didn't add any because I might hurt someone's feelings as what happened to me. No need to thank me-Zanny77 17:43, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is not helping. The list is fine; people try to change it every day, and it is truly aggravating. Please just leave it as it is; if anything, we should be adding to it. Chubbles 21:45, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well there Chubbles, maybe I could help if you would stop vandalizing it w/ incorrect lists (BTW check my page! Wai, a new userbox w/ a message!) So if you would kindly change it and not vandalizing it, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. :)Zanny77 17:43, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Be careful what you call vandalism. Arbitrarily removing bands from an established list without discussion might just as well be called vandalism. The bands on that list have been placed there with a cited source. If you think they do not belong, you need to enter into a conversation here. You need to either provide evidence or make a convincing argument for why these bands should not be listed in a list that starts, "Correctly or not, emo has often been used to describe such bands". Chubbles 23:43, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I honestly can't tell if you've even ever heard of those bands, but they do not even fit in the category of emo (even though it has been so skewered, that most people don't even know what it is.) I can give up the fight for The Used, I have realized they may just be emo. FOB and Panic! I don't really care about, but the only band I really want to make a case about is Coheed and Cambria. They are definitely not emo, in fact, if you actually listen to some of their songs, in some they are very heavy (I admit they aren't in some). They are definitely a genre-bender, as they can fit in any of numerous genres, such as orchestrated rock (they like violins and stuff), hardcore rock (pretty heavy, but not heavy enough to be metal), or acoustic rock (they also like acoustics.) I will admit that I am simply a huge C&C making my arguement, but it's not the fact that I'm a fan that I'm doing it, it's because it is what's right. Please at least listen to their songs for once (I recommend The Suffering, Welcome Home, and Crossing the Frame from their latest CD, those cover all of their styles) so you can see my point. And maybe a little feedback from a neutral source? Thank you Zanny77 03:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't need to point out my credentials, but I will; I own two C&C albums and four Fall Out Boy albums, and have seen both of them live. I'm not poorly acquainted with their music. I read a fair amount of music journalism, and I can say with absolute certainty that these bands are often referred to as emo. It doesn't matter whether they are emo or not; the sentence says, emo has often been used to describe such bands. Which is true. If you want references, I'll go dig up half a dozen reviews that use the word. Can we be done with this? It's a silly argument. Who cares what they're called? Chubbles 03:19, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough that you want to include AFI. But can you provide some sources where they have been called this? Even just posting a link here for me would be more than sufficient, I am just curious. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.172.184.80 (talk) 10:10, 9 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Here ya go: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] Chubbles 16:29, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would just like to point out the fact that Green Day was not pointed out once in this article as being a huge contributor to mainstream Emo. Does anyone not remember Dookie? What happened? Now they're 40 year-old men playing for 14-15 year old boys and girls who are having a hard time going through adolescence. They so obviously changed their image from punk to emo (much like many others) mostly by only wearing black clothes and wearing eyeliner. This no doubt revived Green Day's career but they lost most of their loyal followers from the 90's because of their drastic change of appearance. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SilverTen (talk • contribs) 02:53, 9 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

"Emo" is not emotional rock, because all music has some kind of emotion it is expressing. The original post-hardcore music that was referred to as "emo" (which was a name given to these bands by other hardcore punk bands such as minor threat as a joke) was called emotive hardcore which meant describing "the process by which emotions are managed and shaped, not only by society and its expectations but also by individuals themselves as they seek to express the inexpressible" so it was just another way of punk music critisizing society. Then almost 9 years ago people started using "emo" to describe the girly crying kids that were coming around and MTV then picked it up and "emo" was given a whole new definition entirely.

If you can find one source from the 1980s that uses the phrase "emotive hardcore" rather than "emotional hardcore", then a change is in order. Otherwise, this is just speculation. Chubbles 02:33, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]