Talk:Claude of France

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 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.164.244.87 (talk) 05:00, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply] 

On 2 February 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Claude, Duchess of Brittany. The result of the discussion was not moved.

proposed that Queen Claude of France be moved to Claude of France. per Wiki naming convention of former royal consorts Mowens35 19:38, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• oppose. the naming convention is highly debated as well, and until that´s properly settled, voting to keep this. what on earth is Claude of France supposed to be? looking at the heading of such an article, was she princess, duchess, maid...? or propose Claude, Queen of France Antares911 13:58, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Support. The naming convention regarding this question is clear and accepted, and only some lone (loony?) debater attempted to change it some two months ago, being practically shouted down by more experienced editors. Queen consorts do NOT have the "queenly" title in their headings, and so this one will also not have it. Arrigo 08:37, 28 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

this article needs to be clean up and put toghter better and needs sections to make it easyer to readOo7565 05:56, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Did she speak Breton? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahassan05 (talk • contribs) 07:39, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Anne of Brittany which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 22:47, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I propose that we remove the section mentioning the possibility of her having Down Syndrome, since: A) There are no English sources regarding her having this condition, which is curious considering she was married to Francis I, long-time rival of Henry VIII, King of England. B) The sources used in the section were published in 2007 and 2010, but were only added to the wikipedia in 2024 (the year in which I'm writing this) which, though not a sign of falsehood does make one question. C) The supposed 'proof' of her having Down Syndrome is that she was good-natured and described as ugly. D) She is certainly not known to be a queen who likely had Down Syndrome, as a quote in the page says so outright. Instead, she is known as the daughter of Anne of Brittany, King Louis XII and the first wife of King Francis I of France. E) Beyond the sources, no other publications about Claude's life or that of her parents mentions that possibility. Bialessasoares (talk) 04:43, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A) That does not matter. Wikipedia accepts references in other languages as long as they are good references.

B) That does not matter. Information are included in articles by individual decisions. It is entirely up to an individual who hapen to notice a source, decide to edit the article, and decide to put information from the source in the article. There is no reason at all to question why information from an source published in 2007 are put in the article in 2024.

C) Well, if it is a theory from a good source, then it may be included in an article even if it is merely a theory.

D) Such a thing would not in itself be strange at all, since that diagnosis was not historically identified.

E) The sources are enough to include it. --Aciram (talk) 11:56, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Aciram Thank you for addressing this topic; I would like to add a few points. I explained the reasons that led me to include this point on my talk page to the concerned person who approached me. I made an effort to gather sources from both specialists in Down syndrome, particularly Monique Cuilleret, who is one of the leading French experts on Down syndrome, as well as from historians specializing in the period or the history of disabilities, such as the five archaeologists, anthropologists, and historians mentioned. In total, there are a little less than five separate RS. I have just added an English-language source that discusses the fact that she was evidently disabled (although this is not strictly necessary, and it is unsurprising that research on a Queen of France would be more developed in... French-speaking scholarship logically). In the absence of reliable sources claiming the contrary, and considering that Cuilleret and the five archaeologists/historians/anthropologists hold very strong opinions and speak of more than just a mere possibility, labeling it a 'very likely' fact, I don't see why this should be removed. If the general biographers you consulted did not address the issue, that is their problem; it does not mean she was not affected, especially when specific scientific literature takes a very clear stance in favor of the idea that Claude had Down syndrome. Best regards, AgisdeSparte (talk) 14:37, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Bialessasoares On a side note, you being banned on your IP for trying to remove it by force and then going on Reddit to say that she doesn't seem to have 'Down Syndrome' because her official portraits wouldn't show it is kind of a red flag regarding your actual historian/encyclopedic background (or goals) and indicates, at the very least, that you clearly engage in original research or biased content in your remarks on this point. It also shows that you don't consider the official portraits of a monarch's consort as being heavily reworked, which they almost always are. These portraits, for anyone with some knowledge of the period and the political stakes, are works of propaganda intended to convey specific ideas, rather than accurate representations of the individuals' faces, especially when those individuals were considered 'very ugly' by the beauty standards of the time. AgisdeSparte (talk) 14:52, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]