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Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated, especially about the Derry/Londonderry name dispute. Please read recent comments, look in the archives, and review the FAQ before commenting on that topic.

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view · edit Frequently asked questions Many of these questions arise frequently on the talk page concerning Derry, Northern Ireland. To view the answer, click the [show] link to the right of the question. Q1: Why is this article called Derry? A1: There have been disputes on Wikipedia over whether this article should be called Derry or Londonderry. There have also been disputes over whether the county article and others should use Derry or Londonderry. These are part of the wider Derry/Londonderry name dispute. In 2004, in response to these disputes, Wikipedia adopted a compromise that the city should be called Derry and the county should be called County Londonderry. This compromise exists for three reasons. Firstly, it is intended to prevent Wikipedia from being seen as favouring those who prefer Derry or favouring those who prefer Londonderry. Secondly, Wikipedia prefers to avoid a "Stroke City" title like "Derry/Londonderry". Although permitted for the Derry/Londonderry name dispute article, using this for the city article would be confusing to those unfamiliar with the dispute. The guidelines on naming geographic articles favour giving these articles a single name even when the place is subject to a name dispute. Thirdly, this compromise is preferred to the reversed alternative of calling the city Londonderry and the county County Derry. Q2: Why have there been disputes over this? A2: The disputes on Wikipedia have been part of a wider dispute over the city's name: see Derry/Londonderry name dispute for more information. In a nutshell: Favouring the use of Derry in the context of these disputes is associated with Irish nationalism (i.e. favouring a United Ireland) and therefore also with the Catholic population of Northern Ireland. Favouring Londonderry in the same context is associated with Northern Irish unionism (i.e. favouring Northern Ireland's continued membership in the United Kingdom) and therefore also with the Protestant population of Northern Ireland. However, it is a misconception that Protestants prefer to call the city Londonderry. As noted in the article, most Protestant locals call the city Derry in everyday speech. Examples of Protestant organisations using Derry include the Apprentice Boys of Derry and the Church of Ireland's Diocese of Derry and Raphoe. Disputes have more often been over which name to use in formal situations where Londonderry was traditionally used, such as the name of the local council. Q3: By using Derry, is Wikipedia taking sides in the dispute? A3: There is a risk that Wikipedia will be seen as taking sides, mainly if someone is not aware that the County Londonderry article is being used as a counterbalance. However, for the reasons outlined in Q1, the current compromise was agreed to be better than the alternatives. This issue would certainly not be resolved by renaming the article to Londonderry. Q4: Is Londonderry the city's official name? A4: Yes, through the city's 1662 Royal Charter. This was reaffirmed in a High Court case in 2007. Q5: Why is the official name not used? A5: Wikipedia's policy on article titles states that an official name is not necessarily the most appropriate one for an article title. For example, Wikipedia may avoid the official name if an alternative name is more neutral. For reasons discussed in Q1 and Q2, this article is a case where the need for neutrality affects the naming of the article. Wikipedia may also avoid the official name in favour of a more frequently used name. Locals tend to call the city Derry more frequently than Londonderry, which is not on its own a justification for calling the article Derry but it is something that can be taken into consideration when deciding on an article name. Q6: Is Londonderry the city's real/actual name? A6: If the real/actual name is defined to be the official name, then yes. However, as explained in Q5, that does not mean that it is the most appropriate name to use in the name of the article. Q7: Why is the article using a nickname? A7: The full reasons are discussed in Q1, but Derry is not merely an informal name. There are some formal contexts where Derry is used in place of Londonderry. These include the name of the local government district (Derry City and Strabane), the name of the local council (Derry City and Strabane District Council), the City of Derry Airport and the Church of Ireland diocese. Q8: Is Derry the name that the Republic of Ireland uses? A8: Yes, by coincidence. This is not related to the reasons why this article also uses Derry, which are discussed in Q1. Q9: Does this policy apply to other articles? A9: Yes. The city should be called Derry in other articles. Likewise, the county should be called County Londonderry. Q10: Are there exceptions to this policy? A10: Mentions of the city and county in quotations should not be changed, regardless of whether they use Derry, Londonderry or something else. Entities that are local or related to the city should likewise be called by their own names. Hence an office is called High Sheriff of Londonderry City but the airport is called City of Derry Airport. This also applies to articles about the county, for example: North West Liberties of Londonderry and Derry GAA. However, in those articles, any mentions of the city or county should follow Wikipedia's policy, rather than the entity's own practice. Therefore, Derry GAA (which may be abbreviated to Derry) is described as being "responsible for Gaelic games in County Londonderry", even though the organisation itself prefers to call it County Derry. For more advice, see the manual of style regarding Irish topics. Q11: Can the consensus be changed? A11: It is true that consensus can change. But any proposal must be an improvement on the 2004 compromise, and it must be at least as neutral towards the name dispute. Q12: If no-one is objecting to my proposal, can it go ahead? A12: Be aware that many discussions on the talk page have tended to result in previous arguments being restated, without anything constructive being achieved, and therefore some editors are reluctant to get involved in a repeat of previous discussions. Even if there are few or no objections to a proposal, objections may still be made if the proposal is moved beyond the talk page.

Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Troubles, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article: You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on this article (except in limited circumstances) Neutrality: All editors on Troubles-related articles are directed to get the advice of neutral parties via means such as outside opinions. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Note to editors: the agreed compromise for the Derry/Londonderry name dispute is that the city page shall be titled Derry and the county page shall be titled County Londonderry.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Derry article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

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This article has subpage Derry/Londonderry name dispute, not a good solution in general (WP:Subpages). Without wishing to enter into a discussion of it merits, I'm just noting its existence, has this been agreed to somewhere? cygnis insignis 08:24, 28 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• @Cygnis insignis: That isn't a subpage (subpages are not enabled in the main namespace), it's a daughter article about a subtopic that has been spun out of this main article for length reasons. Think of it as "Derry or Londonderry name dispute". Thryduulf (talk) 10:30, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Technically, it is a subpage, go to Talk:Derry/Londonderry name dispute and you will see the parent link to this page < Talk:Derry. I'm guessing there is a convention for avoiding the use of / in a title (and the url). The idea of subtopics and daughter articles is something I feel is avoidable, the topic could be seen as a 'subtopic' of several other articles and has different intersects with different types of article topics and arguably constrains a spinoff to a fork (hypothetically speaking, I am not disputing the content of that page). cygnis insignis 10:55, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No it isn't a subpage, subpages are not possible in the main namespace. That the talk page of that article appears to be a subpage of this talk page is unfortunate and unavoidable but not indicative (see for example talk:OS/2 and Talk:I/O scheduling). Separate spinout articles are a standard feature of Wikipedia and are done for reasons of article length. Derry/Londonderry name dispute is exactly the same sort of article as History of Derry. A content fork is always a possibility with any subject and is unrelated to the article title. Thryduulf (talk) 12:05, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Articles with slashes in title, which includes the "unavoidable title". I have assumed "Derry / Londonderry" would not be the name in dispute, if it is in common usage and not patching a problem here, and that editors have found another way round in similar situations. I have used subpages a lot elsewhere, and didn't actually know what was meant by disabled, thanks for clarifying that, cygnis insignis 13:12, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The dispute is about whether the settlement and/or county should be called "Derry" or "Londonderry". When talking about the dispute or when both names are used in other contexts (e.g. not wanting to take a side in the dispute) there are many different forms that are used, but "Derry/Londonderry" is the most common, see Derry/Londonderry name dispute#Response to the dispute. "Derry~Londonderry" seems to be rising in prominence generally as a compromise name for the city but doesn't get much if any use as a name for the dispute. Thryduulf (talk) 13:34, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please add to the section about Londonderrys: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londonderry,_Edmonton

Fridgemagneto (talk) 21:10, 2 October 2019 (UTC) Fridgemagneto (talk) 21:10, 2 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Sceptre (talk) 21:25, 2 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Remove the part under events about Derry hosting the Tomo-Dachi anime convention every summer. This hasn't been an event for 12 years now. Sphiralis (talk) 04:59, 25 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 22:07, 25 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It is called Londonderry, the Irish want it to be known as Derry but the Republic of Ireland don’t have a say. NI is part of the U.K. (Airline7375 (talk) 17:25, 8 December 2019 (UTC))[reply]

It's not a matter of who gets a say, but what Wikipedia editors have agreed. See WP:DERRY. Cordless Larry (talk) 18:28, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Can wikipedia editors unilaterally decide to alter the nature of reality? This seems to be wikiality. The name should reflect the actual name of the place, not what some violent extremists and terrorists want it to be know as. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.111.127 (talk) 19:12, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The people of Londonderry/Derry who identify as Irish want it to be Derry. It is their say as citizens of Northern Ireland. This has nothing to do with the Republic of Ireland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:BB6:683A:D758:8D83:16C9:D879:271C (talk) 03:41, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Totally agree how can you come to a compromise about the name it's legally called Londonderry. And where did the editor get this info , in everyday conversation "Derry" is used by most Protestant residents of the city'. So I'm assuming the Protestant population has been questioned on this have they? Seems like it back to bad days of wiki when anything could be published. Dovey68 (talk) 15:01, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia often flouts political reality. You get the same editors arguing to keep this article at Derry yet gurn that Republic of Ireland isn't at Ireland instead. Plenty of black pots and kettles going about the place. Mabuska ^(talk) 17:49, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's frankly ridiculous. Londonderry is the name of the city. County Londonderry is the name of the county. If Wikipedians want to change the name of the city or county, they should get the UK government to change it. Steepleman (t) 12:09, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

How can an article be published on here which is incorrect. The word Derry is not a legally recognised place it is called Londonderry. So why is the title of this article named Derry. Dovey68 (talk) 14:54, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please rename the article Londonderry please Dovey68 (talk) 15:11, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No. FDW777 (talk) 15:13, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

How? Because the number of nationalist editors here outnumber those that accept real world reality. Thus a compromise was created... Londonderry city at this name and the county at County Londonderry. Simples. Mabuska ^(talk) 17:50, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No Mabuska, if that was the case then Ireland would be called Ireland. The compromise was created by all parties and was based on common use-----Snowded ^TALK 17:55, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And the fact that the government of the city called it Derry. If the city government had called it Londonderry the compromise may have looked different. Canterbury Tail talk 18:13, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Technically and legally, that's just the name of the district, not the city which is still legally Londonderry. A bit like Pretoria is in the Tshwane municipal district. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 19:16, 23 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've no objections to this article being re-named Londonderry. GoodDay (talk) 13:40, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

But you know full well that to do so would be to stir up a lot of unecessary trouble over one the most long standing compromises on wikipedia - why do you keep doing this GoodDay? -----Snowded ^TALK 14:14, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's always been Wikipedia's failing, that it bows to how some people feel about a topic. Since there's no edit-warring going on, a discussion of the name is harmless. GoodDay (talk) 15:43, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with GoodDay, I also think it should be renamed to Londonderry for the reasons above. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 16:06, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion is pretty pointless unless one of you is actually going to formally propose moving the article. Cordless Larry (talk) 17:17, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus seems to be that this artictle should be called Londonderry not Derry as per the standard naming conventions for cities. Can someone make the required changed to the article?

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.111.127 (talk) 19:15, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No it shouldn't, so nobody will be changing anything. FDW777 (talk) 19:28, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There is no consensus to change. A couple of people posting above doesn't override the main consensus and MOS on this. See WP:DERRY. Canterbury Tail talk 19:35, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also WP:COMMONNAME which takes precedence, being a policy. The common name of the city in English is Derry. FDW777 (talk) 19:42, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is only the common name for the catholic community, also shorten names aren't used as common names, otherwise why is NYC titled New York, Philadelphia isn't Philly, Washington D.C isn't just DC and Portsmouth isn't Pompey. So I think at best your argument is simply wrong, at worst it is sophistry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.108.86 (talk) 11:25, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure two people can just dictate the consensus. The consensus has clearly changed and the article should reflect that. Otherwise its Wikality. I would remind FDW777 and Canterbury Tail they don't own the article and should perhaps take a break from editing this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.108.86 (talk) 11:28, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Start a requested move or stop whining. FDW777 (talk) 11:30, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The reason Wikipedia calls this article Derry is because of a longstanding compromise. It is non-negotiable that Wikipedia should not be seen as favouring the unionist or republican sides. And calling the article "Derry/Londonderry" does not fit well with our policies either. So to avoid these pitfalls, it was agreed years ago that the city article should be called "Derry" and the county article should be called "County Londonderry".

Wikipedia's policies on official names and on geographic names make it clear that the official name is not always the right one for the article title. In any case, the name Derry does have some official usage, as it is used in the name of the local authority Derry City and Strabane. It is not the official name of the city itself, but nor is it a mere colloquialism.

If you believe that the article should be renamed to Londonderry, you need to address how you would stop Wikipedia from consequently being tipped towards favouring the unionist side of the naming dispute. There is no justification for a change otherwise. I have yet to see a renaming proposal to rename this article that would address this issue. Nor have I seen one that improves on the status quo. Anywikiuser (talk) 13:10, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also two people can just dictate the consensus. The consensus has clearly changed and the article should reflect that is flawed. Talk:Derry/Archive 7#RfC: Renaming the Derry and County Londonderry articles and Talk:Derry/Archive 8#RfC: Renaming the Derry article are the most recent attempts to change the consensus, and they failed. A few people complaining about the title on an intermittent basis does not prove that consensus has changed, only a proper move request or request for comment will do that. FDW777 (talk) 08:16, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Any reason why this is still going on? We have a long established consensus and against that a single purpose IP (supported by one long standing self identified Unionist editor) who is just wasting everyone's time. -----Snowded ^TALK 08:44, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. Consensus on the compromise reached in 2004. Has worked well since. No new or compelling reason to change that consensus has been presented. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 11:19, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's the whole "No surrender!" attitudes that get aroused any time there's a dispute in Northern Ireland over a symbolic issue. The more trivial the issue, the more likely that hardline unionists and nationalists will dig their heels in over it. If anything, I'm surprised there haven't been more disputes over this article's name. Anywikiuser (talk) 13:13, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So a consensus amongst Wikipedia admins is all it takes to alter reality? If a large number of Wikipedia admins want Wikipedia to claim 2+2=5 as part of some kind of joke, is it impossible for anyone to question it due to this so called consensus? The name of the County and City can use the official name, with commonly referred to as Derry following it. Northern Ireland is apart of the United Kingdom, so the opinion of the state of Ireland is largely irrelevant when considering names - the Good Friday Agreement makes no mention of foreign countries being allowed to rename British cities. The Wikipedia article for Poznan doesn't use the German name Posen, although it does mention the German name in its opening sentence. If the German Government suddenly decided to create a naming dispute, and a small German population in the city agreed, well the city would still be called Poznan. Azaan Habib 21:10, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Admins don't determine consensus, the community as a whole does. The vast majority of the editors in this discussion are not admins. If you wish to make a formal RfC or move request on it, it's your right, but I don't believe consensus has changed. And since you've not once edited this article, talk or even this topic area in general before, the advice I'd give is to read through all the previous discussions and agreements instead of just jumping in and pointing fingers around the place at "admins". Canterbury Tail talk 21:19, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The policy can be found at WP:COMMONNAME. If you don't like the policy, you can try to change it, leave, or accept it and move on. FDW777 (talk) 21:21, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You seemed to have missed the point and instead strawmaned. Consensus doesn't decide fact. Would a scientific book from Ancient Greece be forced to admit that the Earth is flat, due to to a consensus? Using this logic it would be forced to, but luckily for us consensus doesn't dictate reality. There is also a consensus that the Great Wall of China can be seen from Space. But yet again, it's simply not true. Even the article itself admits that Derry is not the correct name. The only consensus comes from outside the city of Derry itself, in a different country (Ireland), so why is it relevant at all? Same thing with my example on Posen/Poznan. Anyway I won't reply anymore. User:Alexiod Palaiologos 19:15, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Canterbury Tail: The wording is currently confusing. I realize that the bidding process was in 2010, and the title officially came into effect in 2013, but I had to go to the City of Culture wiki page to figure that out. I put in an edit to make it less ambiguous, but it was reverted. Any recommendations? TimeEngineer (talk) 21:12, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The statement in the first line of the article that the city is "the fourth-largest city on the island of Ireland." is contradicted by the wikipedia page "List of settlements on the island of Ireland by population" which places it fifth:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_settlements_on_the_island_of_Ireland_by_population

John2o2o2o (talk) 14:06, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]