Talk:Saint Patrick's Day: Difference between revisions

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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on 10 dates. [show] March 17, 2004, March 17, 2005, March 17, 2006, March 17, 2007, March 15, 2008, March 17, 2008, March 17, 2009, March 17, 2010, March 17, 2011, and March 17, 2012

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In the section of st. patrick, there is the assertion that he was buried at Downpatrick according to tradition, but in the section reguarding the advent of the festival, it was asserted that the St. was supposed to have been buried there. Is there record of his burial proceedings? If not, should the appertaining be deleted from the festival section?

That it's present day prominence is solely due to marketing by the Brewing Industry, and has nothing to do with St Patrick, just with getting people to spend much money on alcohol as possible. That SPD is marketed as being 'cool' just makes me laugh. People are so gullible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.30.197.163 (talk) 11:57, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Has this perspective been reported in a reliable source? (That's what we need here.) HiLo48 (talk) 21:11, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Much as I agree with what you say, it needs a reliable source if we're going to include that view in the article. --Eamonnca1 (talk) 22:30, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agree also. It's a joke the way the entire "festival" revolves around the drug that is alcohol. 93.107.89.61 (talk) 03:29, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Depends on the country. In Ireland many people still observe the religious aspect and its more of a day to celebrate Irish culture without being labelled as a nationalist Eggilicious (talk) 09:35, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that the Pagan religion barely has a voice anymore, but in the name of unbiased information, shouldn't we include the whole part about mass conversion by force/torture? That may be relevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.168.99.192 (talk) 13:25, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What conversion by torture? The conversion to Christianity was not by coercion

Neither the Catholic Church nor the Irish community, the fifth largest in the world outside Ireland, take part in the organisation of the parties.

I cannot work out what this is trying to say. The Argentinian Irish community, apparently one of the larger Irish communities outside Ireland, NOT taking part in St Patrick's Day celebrations - that sounds extremely wrong. Can someone clarify? -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 21:44, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

oi meu nome eh eu eu queria falar a vcs que eu sou legal e o patrick tamem —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.251.17.130 (talk) 18:27, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

To clarify,this celebrations in Argentina are a relatively recent occurance. Irish style pubs were not common until about 15-20 years ago and these celebrations are a fashion introduced to copy American style, just as Valentine's day has been introduced in recent years. There is no cultural tradition for these, they are rather marketing campaigns. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.253.205.129 (talk) 02:01, 18 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I really need some help! I need the countries of which Saint Patricks Day is celebrated! Im really Irish i know most of them but i just cant figure out them all! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.59.123.121 (talk) 20:10, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

pretty much every country on this list --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states --Connelly90[AlbaGuBràth] (talk) 08:46, 26 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

On what basis are we deleting the pertinent and sourced information regarding moves to wear orange on St. Patrick's Day? --YHoshua (talk) 21:56, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you have forgotten? This is identical to what was discussed and deleted nearly 3 years ago. And then again two years ago. And nothing has changed. It is still sourced to YHoshua's own wordpress blog website and a letter to a provincial newspaper written by YHoshua. Much of the rest of what is written is factually correct, but irrelevant to Saint Patrick's Day, or unsourced speculation. What's more, since the last time, even cite on his blog appears to have gone. The reasons why this isn't going in are still the same; not notable, undue emphasis, poorly sourced, irrelevant and speculation.

I invite YHoshua to either produce better cites from reliable sources, or do not re-add again what was removed by consensus some while ago. Thanks. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 22:03, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nice catch Escape Orbit for those of us with gold fish brains! Bjmullan (talk) 22:13, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is it really necessary for there to be so many references in the lede? Surely these reference can be moved to the article body and make the lede easier to read? Bjmullan (talk) 21:41, 5 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It also states that his father and grandfather were in the Church in Ireland when it was either Western Britain or Brittany. 67.189.127.124 (talk) 03:42, 15 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It appears we are going to go through again the dispute regarding use of "St Patty's Day". We've discussed this before. Bottom line is that a significant number of people use this term and it is not Wikipedia's mission to tell them they are wrong. Wikipedia documents what is, not what some people think should be. Some people don't like it and think it's an error, in which case, if this opinion can be cited from reliable sources, it may be included in the article. But there are no grounds for removing the term from the article just because you don't care for it. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 18:17, 14 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Earth Orbit, I'm sorry but you don't know who it is you're talking about. The "some people who don't like it" are the people who ACTUALLY LIVE IN IRELAND (myself included). The "significant number of people who use this term" are people who actually don't. Ireland may be a small country but I really don't think this is an issue that requires a "1-person, 1-vote" rule, do you? It's Ireland's day, the Irish people don't like it, it shouldn't be included under "Also called", end of discussion. If you need verifiable data for this, I cannot provide it, but I do have over 5,000 twitter followers (over 3 accounts) the vast majority of which live in Ireland and there actually exists a hashtag #paddynotpatty which you may want to look into. Besides, in turn I would challenge you to provide data for the "some people" and "significant number of people" that you mention. Now I'd be all for a section referring to the discussion, but given the passion with which the name is reviled to have it where it is on the Wikipedia entry is nothing short of ignorant. JLPagano (talk) 06:28, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Let's settle this. Can we please provide references from reliable sources (here) to show usage of the various names. Is St. Patty's day mostly a USA usage? A section on the name would be a useful addition to the article. For now, I've added (Mostly USA) to the St. Patty entry (as per previous discussions) although I'd like to see references quantifying usage in USA. If editors want to add that one name is "wrong" or "incorrect", let's see the sources. --HighKing (talk) 12:09, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

See previous discussion on this. Deciding it is "mainly USA" without a cite saying so is original research. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 17:37, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This article is not Saint Patrick's Day in Ireland. Like all Wikipedia articles it strives to present a global perspective. Regardless of how the term is regraded within Ireland, St Patrick's Day is known as "St Patty's Day" by plenty of people globally. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 17:37, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the Irish Times (The paper of record) online archive from 1996 there's 169 references to "Paddy's Day", while for "St Patty's" there's three, one of which isn't referring to the day, and the other two which appear to be from American correspondents. There's no doubt in anyone's minds in this country (the actual origin of the day) that "St Patty's" is not correct. The name is only a bastardisation of "Paddy's Day" by people who can't grasp the word, and Wikipedia should not be perpetuating this nonsense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dennycrane101 (talk • contribs) 13:20, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It may not have originally been correct, but language evolves. A good number of examples from reputable news sources have popped up today using "St. Patty's Day":

• CNBC: "$94,000 Scotch? Why Not, It's St. Patty's Day" [1]
• CBS News: "THE Dish: Darina Allen's St. Patty's Day stew" [2]
• USA Today: "...the perfect tech tools to celebrate St. Patty's Day in style." [3]
• "Your 2012 guide to St. Patty’s day events, parties and parades." [4]
• "St. Patty's Day Party Spots That'll Shake Your Shamrocks" [5]

It appears that "St. Patty's Day" appears primarily in US media, and fairly often. It undoubtedly refers to the holiday with the full title "Saint Patrick's Day," so it makes sense to recognize the shortened version "St. Patty's Day." --PicklePower (talk) 15:14, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder what people had to say about "Pádraig" becoming "Patrick"?? Words change. Ds can become Ts. That's it way it goes. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 17:40, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

So basically we're taking Escape Orbit's logic over an entire nation? If we start calling you escape hatch does your name change to that? It's not St Patricia's day, and it has nothing to do with burgers. It's Paddy's Day. At least with the "mainly USA" edit the page can acknowledge that it's only clueless American's that call the day that.

No, basically we are taking Wikipedia policy over the personal opinions of some readers. The info box is listing names by which the day is known. Clearly many call it "Patty", or we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Whether this diminutive is "incorrect" or not is an entirely different matter. If you have any reliable sources that discuss the disputed shortening of the name, then it could perhaps be in the article further down. But there is absolutely no justification for removing what is there and what is accurate just because you don't like it.--Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 10:08, 18 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Can we please remove the Ulster Scots "translation" from the first line. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.221.136.176 (talk) 09:32, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree 'Saunt Petherick's Day' has no place in first line, and probably no place in entire article.86.45.12.27 (talk) 14:55, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And it isn't even good Ulster Scots. -- Evertype·✆ 17:47, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please remove - (St.) Patty's Day (Mainly USA)

The reference of Patty should not be acknowledged as it is an insult. Paddy is derived from the Irish, Pádraig, being a male name - 'Patty' is a type of burger and can also be a nickname for Patricia, although rare in itself. To refer to a male St. as a female nickname is just in no way appropriate and should not be recognised on such a page.

79.97.59.49 (talk) 15:12, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: We don't censor information in Wikipedia. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 17:15, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Celestra, in fairness, "Patty" is a misspelling of "Paddy". The reason the misspelling exists is that intervocalic -t- and -d- sound alike in most varieties of North American English. But it's still a spelling error, just as "Krissmas" is. We need not "censor" the fact that this misspelling exists, but it does not belong in the infobox. "Paddy" is short for "Pádraig" or "Patrick"; "Patty" is only sort for "Patricia". I am going to remove this from the infobox, and refer to "Patty" elsewhere. And I don't expect to be overruled. Fair enough? -- Evertype·✆ 17:45, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

 Done I have made this edit by adding a sentence to the lead, and putting in a footnote about the misspelling. Are further references required? If so, please discuss them here and please do not revert the changes made. -- Evertype·✆ 17:58, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

 Not doneI have just reverted. See the section above for discussion already on this. Please do not change until there is a consensus to do so. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 19:10, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Evertype, it may well be that St. Patty originated as a misspelling of St. Paddy, or it may have just have started as a familiar form of Patrick; I wouldn't know, I'm not an etymologist. Today, though, it is well known variation and removing it because someone is offended would be censorship. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 20:21, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Escape Orbit: From my point of view here, you pretty much seem to be the only person on that side of the "consensus" discussion... I see a far greater consensus to remove it...

Celestra: I'd hardly say that one country in the world referring to it differently incorrectly is "well known". TheChrisD ^{Rants•Edits} 20:32, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well I can see at least three others. And fortunately I also have Wikipedia policy on my side. Discussion about how "St Patty" arose, and how it is an error, and how it is "just" Americans, has so far been either pure speculation, questionable original research or just plain personal opinion. Those of this viewpoint would be far better starting with a cite to a reliable source. Where is one? --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 22:53, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

St. Patty, based on the rather obvious views on Twitter, seems to stem as nearly all Americans are of the viewpoint that because his name was Patrick that the day is shortened to Patty. The problem lies in the fact that they are going by the Anglicised version of the name (Patrick), whereas back in those times he would have been known as Padraic (or a similar timely derivative). If you notice that article would will see that it mentions the source of name being Saint Patrick himself. The name is kept in Irish heritage with several people who specifically go under the name Pádraig (Pádraig Harrington being the most globally well-known example), as well as the Fitzpatrick surname, again, the English version of Mac Giolla Phádraig. As well as that, in the past the term "Paddy" was used as a derogatory term for Irish people, which bled through to the holiday itself as this is seen as an Irish holiday. I can very confidently say that it is a US only thing as I have not seen any Canadians spelling it with double-T, rather I have only ever seen double-D's. If you'd like a source, I'd start with a recent article by John McIntyre of the Baltimore Sun, who has himself being attempting to educate people as to the proper spelling of the shortened name, by teaching them of the name's history. TheChrisD ^{Rants•Edits} 23:46, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Your original research on Twitter and personal opinion on how it arose is noted but, as I said, irrelevant. If you read previous discussions on this you'll see it is not just Americans.

Thank you for the cite, it helps demonstrate that many people say "Patty", and therefore the article is entirely correct in listing it. Whether "Patty" is "incorrect" or not is an entirely different matter. If you believe that you can provide sufficient reliable sources and the dispute is notable enough (something I'm unconvinced about), then perhaps you may think about adding a section on it further down the article. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 10:01, 18 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Article fails to mention that Mexico also celebrates the feast day. It is because of the contributions of the San Patricios in the Mexican-American War. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.72.181.157 (talk) 19:17, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The article is not semiprotected but it is moveprotected. Was the semiprotection been just lifted or was never implemented? ELITE 3000 (talk) 00:55, 18 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It is semi-protected, until March 22. See here. — FoxCE (talk • contribs) 01:01, 18 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]