Talk:List of sovereign states: Difference between revisions

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	List of sovereign states is a former featured list. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page and why it was removed. If it has improved again to featured list standard, you may renominate the article to become a featured list.
Article milestones Date Process Result January 22, 2006 Featured list candidate Promoted November 29, 2008 Featured list removal candidate Demoted March 3, 2009 Featured list candidate Not promoted
Current status: Former featured list

This list has a detailed criteria for inclusion. Please do not add new entries without prior discussion. Items that do not fit the set criteria, such as Antarctica, the Sovereign Military Order of Malta and polities normally classified as dependent territories, micronations, supranational unions or constituent political divisions will be removed.

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This article was nominated for deletion on 15 July 2011. The result of the discussion was snow keep.

Archives

List of countries/Archive 1, 2, 3, 4 Discussion of criteria 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Cook Islands and Niue Nov 2001 – Apr 2005 Apr 2005 – Feb 2006 Feb 2006 – Nov 2006 Jan 2007 – Jun 2007 Jul 2007 – Apr 2009 Apr 2009 - Apr 2010 Apr 2010 - Jul 2010 Jul 2010 - Feb 2011 Feb 2011 - current

This page has archives. Sections older than 25 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 4 sections are present.

Should this be added in the list as an unrecognized country? Principality of Filettino 193.109.254.21 (talk) 13:14, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That article made me laugh. Only in Europe... The answer is no, unless you can produce credible sources to say that it has fulfilled the criteria. Nightw 13:19, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There's no better way to protest! Maybe they'll establish relations with Seborga. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 14:47, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Or the Principality of Sealand. It has a Facebook page with over 38,000 friends so doesn't that count as "international recognition"? --Taivo (talk) 14:50, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Night w likes this.

Aaahahahahahaaa, Night w, you are hilarious! :) --WhiteWriter ^speaks 21:01, 26 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I was reverted by user:Chipmunkdavis: "Rv, Historical languages are included, and the UN at least (in a rather indecisive fashion) still lists it as a Spanish territory. Please discuss other changes on talk."

1. No the UN lists it as non-self governing territory;
2. Historical langugages? Check formerly colonized countries whose official language is diff: Almost all Arab League member states for example. We can extend the "historical languages" concept and list the Spanish and French name for the United states by your logic.
3. Check Legal status of Western Sahara: It lists 48 countries allegedly recognizing the SADR. The 80 other states listed are those who have diplomatic "Bureau de liaison" with the Polisario. It's obvious that such listed states as the United States or the United Kingdom do not recognize the SADR. Despite that the aforementioned article uses almost exclusively pro-Polisario sources or lack thereof.
4. Attending some "alleged meeting" at the Asian-African Conference doesn't have anything to do with the statehood of the SADR. We are not going to list every international meeting that the SADR or the Polisario attended.

Tachfin (talk) 15:42, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• I'd actually support adding Spanish to the United States entry, since there's a common argument that it enjoys a greater official status than does English. And yes, it's historically important to the country.
• I've checked the article and I see 84. Some have frozen or cancelled relations pending the referendum, but that doesn't impact on recognition.
• I agree with the removal of the Asian-African reference. Nightw 17:55, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would also support adding Spanish and French to the United States section as well. I'm actually surprised no one has, especially since there is no official language in the U.S. --Taivo (talk) 20:46, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• • Well reasoning by local-analogy (Maghreb, Africa) there is no reason to include Spanish (which has no status in SADR) and not do the same for other states.
  • SADR itself claims recognition from 80 states listed here.Tachfin (talk) 02:15, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You're not going to win the issue with Spanish, Tachfin. We've discussed the issue multiple times before with other countries and the consensus has always been to include historical languages where someone has bothered to include them. It's not hurting anyone for Spanish to sit there. --Taivo (talk) 04:10, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Frankly I don't care anymore I'm happy with it as it is. I tend to avoid this area since I already have 3-4 Polisario activists constantly on my back. I started the discussion since I was immediately reverted as if I did some kind of vandalism, I wish the initial "reverter" was as quick to discussion as he was to revert. P.S: Can you link me to the discussion you mentioned? Tachfin (talk) 04:52, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Scroll back up the page and you will see them scattered here and there over the past two or three years. --Taivo (talk) 08:50, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry about not being as quick to discuss as revert, but life decided against a fast response. Anyway, the UN does list it as a Spanish territory in its list, although this is just a formality. I too am surprised French and Spanish haven't been added considering the current language inclusion criteria. To be fair, the number of recognitions could be better clarified (and sourced), but simply changing the number and saying it is according to thisorthat without providing a source doesn't help. Have the recognition numbers been updated to include South Sudan by the way? Chipmunkdavis (talk) 12:41, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Can you link me to that U.N listing? It would be really weird if true.

Above I linked to the official SADR website, which claims 80 recognitions (Counted them by converting to table to excel). S.Sudan would be the 81st so still short of 84. The article should mention that it is according to their claim since the exact current number is difficult to determine; and it's only fair to suspect that they try to inflate it given the geopolitics. Tachfin (talk) 13:26, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Spain situation is just a leftover because they couldn't place it under any other country without taking a side, so no resolution has been published officially removing its sovereignty over the Western Sahara. Anyway, I've just looked at the current website and instead of an explicit naming of Spain they've got a footnote saying Spain has relinquished responsibility. Here's the June 2011 report on the territory, which is interesting. So at least the website can move with the times, even if the UN itself hasn't. Perhaps there is hope for the world yet.

Anyway, that's an interesting list of countries, and I'd agree they'd probably try to increase the number as much as they can without offending anyone (except Morocco of course). This conversation topic reminds me of the situation earlier this year: Abkhazia: "Vanuatu has recognised us" Vanuatu UN representative: "No we haven't." Anyway, let's see what Night W has to say. I'm happy to change the number if we reach an agreement here. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 17:16, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed interesting document, thanks! Tachfin (talk) 15:47, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

why isn't Puntland included like Somaliland is? their situation is the same — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.251.167.67 (talk) 13:42, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Puntland explicitly denies that it is independent, whereas Somaliland explicitly asserts it. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 17:17, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Puntland and Galmudug claim to be federative divisions of somalia rather than independent states.XavierGreen (talk) 17:17, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Cook Islands is a member of 7 specialized agencies, Niue of 5. Kosovo is a member of 2. I'm not disputing sovereignty here - indicative is that no country claims sovereignty over the Cook Islands and Niue, most obviously not New Zealand - but what is this silly distinction if Kosovo is a non-member state member of specialized agencies, when the Cook Islands and Niue are explicitly recognized as (non-member) states by the UN and are full sovereign members of several more specialized agencies than Kosovo (itself a member only of agencies which group economies, not sovereign states, as full members)? It's an awful, artificial distinction with overt political aims. Why has it remained for so long? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.144.169.174 (talk) 07:32, 23 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Cook Islands and Niue do not claim to be independent states, kosovo does.XavierGreen (talk) 19:57, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

According to the CIA, Niue is independent, but the Cook Islands are not. Independence on October 19 1974. Even the UN recognizes them as non-UN member states (THEREFORE, Independent states not a member of the UN. 72.229.142.10 (talk) 01:44, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Anon IP, until you have built a consensus for including either or both Niue and Cook Islands, do not add them to the article. This has been the subject of much discussion and no consensus has ever been definitively reached. Build your consensus before adding the material. And a consensus does not consist of you making a comment, waiting a few minutes, and adding the material since no one said anything. --Taivo (talk) 05:39, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

CI and Niue haven't declared independence but are recognized as such by NZ and some other sovereign states, if there isn't a consensus, we must include Niue and CI in a special section as many wikipedians as well as some sovereign states recognize them as such, the section must include notes why CI and Niue should or shouldn't be considered sovereign states Captain armenia (talk) 16:31, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

1. Jamahiriya has effective control over some of Libya's territory
2. Jamahiriya claims to be the sole legitimate government of Libya
3. Most of the UN member states recognize Jamahiriya as the sole legitimate government of Libya

Which means that Jamahiriya is a state with limited recognition and must be included on the 3rd part of the list OR
RoC (Taiwan) must be excluded from the list and added as a special note to PRC as it's in absolutely same situation as Libya (similiar territorial claims, different names, different governments and different capitals) Captain armenia (talk) 16:49, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]